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WOR TL And Pattern Change At A Glance

S

Schroedingers Cat

This exhibit in the application for changing the WOR TL and Pattern shows dramatically at a glance where they moved (about 1/2 Mile away), and how much deeper the nulls are to the West than in the old pattern. Considering that the Canadian allotments will likely not be used again, it's too bad that they can't modify the pattern to improve service in those areas. CJRN was used like a TIS service until it was ordered to shut down a few years ago.

https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS...?appn=100590833&qnum=5120&copynum=1&exhcnum=2
 
Looks like a null to the NW, not West. Interesting that there is a bit of a lobe SW. I would think they should protect KEEL, KCMO, and KGNC - which are pretty much all that you get on 710 in Texas at night. Although I have strong evidence that I am getting WOR sidebands on 700 and 720 at night.
 
Looks like I'll still be able to hear them in central Ohio, although WOR definitely isn't as strong as it once was. I remember hearing its slop on WLW at night years ago. That hasn't been the case in a while, at least whenever I have listened.
As far as the Canadian allotments, those are a joke. Would be nice if American stations could stop protecting stations that no longer exist.
 
The null generally toward KIRO, CHYR, and CJRN is at about 290 degrees in the Standard Pattern. A later application for Augmentation puts that at 280 degrees, just 10 degrees North of West. The minor lobe is smaller, and in most directions in the Western half of the pattern the IDFs are considerably less than the old pattern IDFs in the same directions. Its confusing due to the different locations and the later augmentations, but this explains why we don't hear it as well now.
 
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I've seen it happen both ways. Apparently, some stations, if forced to by the new occupant, take the towers down before the new facilitiy is fully licensed. I assume that this is done with full conferring of the Commission, the Consulting Engineers, and the Attorneys that the licensing is assurred. Other stations wait until the new facility is licensed before they take the old towers down. If you look at the letter that allows the STA and testing for the new WOR site, and the letter that reveals the reason for the move, that appears to be what happened. Some old tower sites stayed up for several years after they built the new arrays, notably WXYT. I have yet to see many changes in tower location recently that do not have a down side to the new location, even when they go from 5 kW to 50 kW. In WOR's case, it's the signal in the Western half of the pattern. In WOR's case, the site conductivity is probably nearly identical at the new site. It is about one half mile away. Many new sites should have been tested the with an experimental antenna. They did this in the old days, as evidenced by the History Cards. On one "upgrade", I emailed the Consulting Engineer and told them they should have done this. When they did proofs and subsequent applications, they found that the conductivity was WAY below M-3. If anyone else is going to do this, they should do a test site conductivity analysis. I think when we talked about skin depth in poor conductors and MW frequencies, our discussion revealed that the signal penetrates further than you would expect, and that surface soil type and wetness conditions don't tell the whole story.
 
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Here's a good discussion of skin depth in soils of various conductivity. This would suggest that snow and standing fresh water would have little effect on effective conductivity. Standing water probably would have more effect at the WOR site, where the groundwater and standing water would tend to have a much higher salt content, less than the ocean, but much more than fresh water.

http://www.antennasbyn6lf.com/files/ground_skin_depth_and_wavelength.pdf

Also, when the signal hits Manhattan and Long Island, there would be a huge decrease in conductivity. Perhaps this is why the higher IDF toward Manhattan was seen as a good thing.
 
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Schroedingers Cat said:
The null generally toward KIRO, CHYR, and CJRN is at about 290 degrees in the Standard Pattern. A later application for Augmentation puts that at 280 degrees, just 10 degrees North of West. The minor lobe is smaller, and in most directions in the Western half of the pattern the IDFs are considerably less than the old pattern IDFs in the same directions. Its confusing due to the different locations and the later augmentations, but this explains why we don't hear it as well now.
Click to expand...

CHYR?

for the daytime? (remember it was 730- nights)
 
WOR is by far the weakest of any of the NY clears in Charleston, SC because of this. 660, 770, 880, 1130, even 1560 I can hear almost every night. I can't hear 710 much because of Cuba and Miami. I probably hear 1010 more than 710.
 
billmich said:
CHYR?

for the daytime? (remember it was 730- nights)
Click to expand...

In later years, they got authorization for 710 at Night and operated on 710 Day and Night until they moved to FM. It was 700 watts input/1000 watts equivalent at minimum efficiency with 6 towers in a line. It's in the Region II Database and has to be protected unless extaordinary means are used like WYLL did to go to 50 kW and beam North at Night.

https://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/amq?list=0&facid=98815
 
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Schroedingers Cat said:
surface soil type and wetness conditions don't tell the whole story.
Click to expand...

That blows away the rationale behind the actions of many small market owners of AMs who were known, in the 50's and 60's, to put a trickling garden hose at the tower base in the hotter and drier months "so the signal won't dry up".
 
charlestondxman said:
WOR is by far the weakest of any of the NY clears in Charleston, SC because of this. 660, 770, 880, 1130, even 1560 I can hear almost every night. I can't hear 710 much because of Cuba and Miami. I probably hear 1010 more than 710.
Click to expand...

When originally designed, WOR wanted to cover both Philadelphia and New York. Their advertising in "Broadcasting" from the 30's into the 40's often referenced this.

I believe that they initially achieved this by the positioning of their "T" antenna held up by two towers so that its maximum radiation went towards the two markets.
 
That still would seem like a heck of a trick, David, given the ground conductivity in that part of the country. You'd have to transmit from about 50 miles out of either city, no? I'd think you run the risk of cancellation at that distance, but then again I am no engineer. This is a total novice observation.
Conversely, if a 50K wanted to cover, say, both Chicago and Milwaukee, I am guessing that would be a cinch purely because of the conductivity and distance ... disparate markets aside.
 
schmave said:
That still would seem like a heck of a trick, David, given the ground conductivity in that part of the country. You'd have to transmit from about 50 miles out of either city, no? I'd think you run the risk of cancellation at that distance, but then again I am no engineer. This is a total novice observation.
Conversely, if a 50K wanted to cover, say, both Chicago and Milwaukee, I am guessing that would be a cinch purely because of the conductivity and distance ... disparate markets aside.
Click to expand...

Back in the 30's the noise level was much lower, and suburban sprawl had not moved either market out to the suburbs.

There were few stations, so listeners were accustomed to weaker signals and many people, if not most, had aerials connected to big, home radios... there were very few portables and "little sets" that were less sensitive.

The conductivity of New Jersey is mostly 4, which, while not great, is adequate... not the 0.5 of Long Island!
 
We memorized it from the Jean Shepherd show,
but could not find it anywhere on the web,
so we present these lyrics for your entertainment:

"This is WWWW, somebody stop me, OR
This is WWWW, somebody stop me, OR
1440 Broadway, 710 on your dial
That powerful, powerful station
With the fifty kilowatt smile!
This is WWWW, 'heard both near and far'
This is WWWW, somebody stop me, OR"

Ah, the good old days!
then and there.
 
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ai4i said:
We memorized it from the Jean Shepherd show,
but could not find it anywhere on the web,
so we present these lyrics for your entertainment:

"This is WWWW, somebody stop me, OR
This is WWWW, somebody stop me, OR
1440 Broadway, 710 on your dial
That powerful, powerful station
With the fifty kilowatt smile!
This is WWWW, 'heard both near and far'
This is WWWW, somebody stop me, OR"

Ah, the good old days!
then and there.
Click to expand...

Jean Shepherd's house when he was growing up was actually about a mile East of the WJOB 1200/1230 tower in Northwest Indiana. The WJOB Field Strength there was probably in excess of 50 mV/m. It was on Cleveland STREET, not in CLEVELAND, Ohio where the Christmas Story House is located. Shep's first radio job was at WJOB. Later, he worked at WTOD 1560 Toledo in the post WWII radio boom. His last callsign was K2ORS, and whether this was some type of vanity callsign for being at WOR, I haven't located a link. It would have been even more interesting if Ralphie had listened to the Ovaltine sponsored show on a crystal radio, on which he probably would have heard WJOB and WIND. I am certain that Jean was a DXer.
 
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Schroedingers Cat said:
In later years, they got authorization for 710 at Night and operated on 710 Day and Night until they moved to FM. It was 700 watts input/1000 watts equivalent at minimum efficiency with 6 towers in a line. It's in the Region II Database and has to be protected unless extaordinary means are used like WYLL did to go to 50 kW and beam North at Night.

https://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/amq?list=0&facid=98815
Click to expand...


I thought the 710 at night thing was just in the last 1-2 years before the fm switchover; to be honest I thought their american coverage at 730>710 coverage (night time)
 
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