Here's a new topic for a change...What were the worst format flips in Columbus radio history? I have to give the honors to WNCI, back in 1993 when they flipped to AC from Top 40. I remember they dropped all that "Top 40 Teen Rap Music" to play three boring decades of music. For awhile the only CHR in town was Hot 105/107/KISS-FM...What an awesome CHR. Others were the supernova of Star 107.9 for 50s-70s oldies back on July 11, 2001(The same day 'BNS took up Hot AC-NOT a bad flip, BTW)and what about that lousy Arrow format that replaced KISS back in the mid-90s(105.7 was Classic Rock "ARROW", which stood for All Rock N Roll Oldies, which flipped in April 1994, and 107.1 was 70s oldies ARROW, which flipped in January 1995).
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Worst format flips in Columbus radio history
- Thread starter alans613
- Start date
I think just about everyone reading this will agree that when 92X (WXGT) sold out and switched formats, it was one of the worst flips ever. Who misses Cool 92 playing all oldies?? What a waste of such a powerful signal. It was indeed a good day when I got back from Cleveland and they were playing country.
alans613 said:
I agree that STAR 107.9 flipping to 50s-70s oldies being a bad flip. However, if memory serves me right, the Flip didn't happen officially until Tuesday morning at 6am on July 24th, 2001. I can't remember the last song they played as STAR, but I'm certain the date was July 24. Just under two weeks from when BNS flipped. The day before J. Matthews signed off the morning show saying that the next day they were going to start a Madonna montage, and who ever could guess the songs in the montage would win something.
BTW, if anyone can tell me what the last song STAR 107.9 played that morning, it would be appreciated. Would have remembered it my self but as the event was happening, I didn't realize I was listening to the last song, and failed to make note of it.
C
Catawba Scott
Guest
If jtmichaels thought the flip from 92x was bad, what about the time in 1978 when WCOL-FM switched TO 92X. I'll never forget an audio store on Morse Road had a roadside sign that said WCOL-FM is gone, buy your tape players now.
What made the NCI 1993 flip even more ridiculous is that they claimed to be going to "Hot AC," when in fact they were actually softer than Sunny (which was already on the softer side of Mainstream AC). Minus a few spikes here and there, "Lady In Red" was about as "hot" as it got on NCI in 1993. The format was a joke...completely out of line with listeners' expectations for 97.9, and doomed from day one. I half believe that the NCI switch to "Hot AC" was by corporate mandate, and that then-PD Dave Robbins had to "prove" that "Hot AC" wouldn't work here so that he could switch it back to CHR and get the suits off his back. Nationwide had numerous other true and successful Hot AC's at the time, and Robbins consulted several of them, so he had to know what Hot AC actually was. Admittedly, the "conspiracy" angle is just a theory, but it's hard to see how else this debacle could have happened.
On a related note, a few years before the NCI switch, 98.9 WXMX claimed it was flipping from its initial format of Soft AC to Hot AC, and, well, I don't think they even got as "hot" as "Lady In Red." What a joke. Between that and NCI's 1993 fiasco, it's no wonder no one dared try Hot AC in Columbus until 97.1's 2001 flip, since Hot AC had a completely un-earned reputation of having failed twice here...both attempts had actually been softish Mainstream AC's in reality.
In truth, 97.1 was Columbus's *first* Hot AC.
On a related note, a few years before the NCI switch, 98.9 WXMX claimed it was flipping from its initial format of Soft AC to Hot AC, and, well, I don't think they even got as "hot" as "Lady In Red." What a joke. Between that and NCI's 1993 fiasco, it's no wonder no one dared try Hot AC in Columbus until 97.1's 2001 flip, since Hot AC had a completely un-earned reputation of having failed twice here...both attempts had actually been softish Mainstream AC's in reality.
In truth, 97.1 was Columbus's *first* Hot AC.
RickF said:
I don't know. I think Channel Z was a great niche format for that signal. The flip from Alternative to World Class Rock had a lot to be desired.
The Fox to The Brew was equally as bad.
WYTS isn't blazing up the ratings either. I don't suspect they will. CC just can't seem to do anything with 1230 or 105.7
What a lot of you folks are forgetting were the "off the air" dynamics that went on surrounding the
92X format flip...
Great Trails Broadcasting was running out of money...fast. The oldies format made sense from the
perspective that doing oldies cost a lot less than doing CHR. Great Trails could no longer afford to compete against WNCI's almost bottomless promotional budget. And, they could claim a "heritage" position, by taking back the WCOL calls.
It was a success...both in terms of ratings, and revenue. WBNS flipped to oldies...and WCOL prevailed for
13 straight rating books. (Playing the "heritage" card was probably the reason. And, at the time, with the oldies format, the first station in wins...unless...the first station in screws up, which WCOL did not.)
The only reason WCOL flipped to country, was that, obviously, it was a bigger and more marketable hole in the market which then-new owner Nationwide had more than enough money to exploit. Had no such format hole been available, they would have stayed oldies, and WBNS would have changed formats rather than
take Nationwide on head to head. (I know this as fact, because then-WBNS-FM GM Dana Harmon told this to a good friend of mine.)
For 92X fans who grew up with the station, I can appreciate how badly you felt. But, from the only standpoint in the radio business that counts...ratings and revenue, the 92X flip was the correct decision
for the time.
92X format flip...
Great Trails Broadcasting was running out of money...fast. The oldies format made sense from the
perspective that doing oldies cost a lot less than doing CHR. Great Trails could no longer afford to compete against WNCI's almost bottomless promotional budget. And, they could claim a "heritage" position, by taking back the WCOL calls.
It was a success...both in terms of ratings, and revenue. WBNS flipped to oldies...and WCOL prevailed for
13 straight rating books. (Playing the "heritage" card was probably the reason. And, at the time, with the oldies format, the first station in wins...unless...the first station in screws up, which WCOL did not.)
The only reason WCOL flipped to country, was that, obviously, it was a bigger and more marketable hole in the market which then-new owner Nationwide had more than enough money to exploit. Had no such format hole been available, they would have stayed oldies, and WBNS would have changed formats rather than
take Nationwide on head to head. (I know this as fact, because then-WBNS-FM GM Dana Harmon told this to a good friend of mine.)
For 92X fans who grew up with the station, I can appreciate how badly you felt. But, from the only standpoint in the radio business that counts...ratings and revenue, the 92X flip was the correct decision
for the time.
I never heard 92X until a friend of mine hooked me up with some old airchecks from 88-89...It was at the time when 92X was doing the "Rock 40" thing...92X was a great station from what I heard...Great imaging, great jocks, etc. The 92X flip was sad, since it had been on the air since 1978 with the WXGT calls. Great Trails made a lot of mistakes which lead to it losing money and this is also why Alan Kaye successfully sued them in 1991(Alan Kaye was a Morning Zoo host of WGTZ/Z-93 Dayton)when he was released from his guaranteed contract, which lead to Kaye suing the crap out of GT. I remember researching this for my old Z-93 Tribute Site. It is a long story...I even interviewed Mr. Kaye for the site and the story is a great one. Anyhow, GT threw a lot of money around and it just went downhill from there. BTW, competing against WNCI's endless supply of ca$h was a mountain and a half to climb I am sure.
It was hilarious and fun to follow the antics of NCI in brazenly co-opting every contest 92X did. I mean, hours after 92X started, say, a Madonna-related contest, NCI would be on the air with the same or similar contest, but with a minor twist. And then to make it even more brazen, NCI would claim on-air that 92X (or WSNY in some cases) had stolen THEIR idea. I recall PD Dave Robbins saying that if you were the station with the big cume you could get away with that. And it indeed worked for NCI.
The flip of WBNS-FM from Beautiful Music to Oldies gets my vote. Cool 92 was doing very well and had the legacy. No matter how you slice it, Oldies is a niche format, and there simply isn't room in most markets, especially one the size of Columbus, for two Oldies stations. They would have been better off going head to head with WSNY or WNCI. Would you rather split the market with a station that has a 6 share or a 12 share? Someone at WBNS didn't figure the math.
Cool 92 had the right sound with loads of compression and reverb. Some might not have liked it, but it fit the 60s sound pretty well from when that music was on the charts. When WBNS-FM changed to Oldies, their processing stayed the same as it was for Beautiful music because their CE hated compression and wouldn't budge on any changes. The hollow sound of WBNS-FM compared to WCOL just didn't get it for me. By the way, I worked at both stations while they were in their Oldies days. The morale at WBNS was rock bottom when I was there in 1997. The numbers were flat and the station was drifting. They fired their first consultant because the numbers were going down, hired another and watched the numbers go farther down, then ditched them and hired back the first one. Only in radio...
Rob Ellis was PD at WCOL when I started there and he was one of the best PDs I ever worked for. The numbers were great under his direction until a consultant was brought in, then the slide started. We were playing between 1200-1400 songs when I first went there. By comparison, WBNS played about 600 songs when I was there. Listeners complained constantly about the repetition, but nobody paid any attention. The consultant knew best. There were many times on a Sunday morning when there were no spots in an hour and I would have to find some additional music to fill with. I had to be careful because looking ahead on the music log, I could see many of the same songs I was playing in the 8 and 9 AM hour coming up again at 3 and 4 in the afternoon. There is no excuse for that on an Oldies station that is playing a couple of decades of music.
I was also at WXMX when the change was made from Soft AC to Hot AC. The problem with that could be summed up in one name. C.C. Matthews was brought on as the consultant for Hot AC. One has to wonder if Kenny Rogers & Gladys Knight really qualify as Hot AC. We must have been one of the few stations on the planet playing that song. A lot of the music we played was questionable for the format because it was all over the road. I always said it wasn't a Mix, it was a hodge-podge.
Cool 92 had the right sound with loads of compression and reverb. Some might not have liked it, but it fit the 60s sound pretty well from when that music was on the charts. When WBNS-FM changed to Oldies, their processing stayed the same as it was for Beautiful music because their CE hated compression and wouldn't budge on any changes. The hollow sound of WBNS-FM compared to WCOL just didn't get it for me. By the way, I worked at both stations while they were in their Oldies days. The morale at WBNS was rock bottom when I was there in 1997. The numbers were flat and the station was drifting. They fired their first consultant because the numbers were going down, hired another and watched the numbers go farther down, then ditched them and hired back the first one. Only in radio...
Rob Ellis was PD at WCOL when I started there and he was one of the best PDs I ever worked for. The numbers were great under his direction until a consultant was brought in, then the slide started. We were playing between 1200-1400 songs when I first went there. By comparison, WBNS played about 600 songs when I was there. Listeners complained constantly about the repetition, but nobody paid any attention. The consultant knew best. There were many times on a Sunday morning when there were no spots in an hour and I would have to find some additional music to fill with. I had to be careful because looking ahead on the music log, I could see many of the same songs I was playing in the 8 and 9 AM hour coming up again at 3 and 4 in the afternoon. There is no excuse for that on an Oldies station that is playing a couple of decades of music.
I was also at WXMX when the change was made from Soft AC to Hot AC. The problem with that could be summed up in one name. C.C. Matthews was brought on as the consultant for Hot AC. One has to wonder if Kenny Rogers & Gladys Knight really qualify as Hot AC. We must have been one of the few stations on the planet playing that song. A lot of the music we played was questionable for the format because it was all over the road. I always said it wasn't a Mix, it was a hodge-podge.
As Dave Robbins told me: he would have a staffer monitor 92X every Friday afternoon for their weekend contest. As soon as it would be announced, Dave would copy the contest and throw another grand on top of it. And what was said here was right. If you control the "cume", you control the "thought". Simply put, WNCI could top any contest Great Trails could afford. And did.
Which was also why WCOL copied all of WBNS's liners. Same philosophy. Control the cume and you control what people are thinking.
But, Great Trails problems were brewing well before the Alan Kaye fiasco. That came after the 92X format
flip. The company had been floundering for several years before, amassing (if I remember hearing the figure right) about $40 million in debt that they had to continue to service. They had sold off all but the Dayton and Columbus properties and still had a mountain of debt. They "tweaked" the 92X format several times in the late 80's, which also contributed to its' downfall. You couldn't be sure any given month whether you were listening to a CHR, a Rock 40, etc. For every "action" in the market, Great Trails flinched and reacted.
And that also was why when WBNS flipped against WCOL, we at 'COL argued very strongly to management to fight WBNS. The management at WBNS figured if they flipped, Great Trails would dump the oldies format.
My exact words in a meeting in the WCOL GM's office on the day of the BNS flip were: "If you guys don't get your backs up and fight this, any (expletive deleted) with a 3 kilowatter will take you on in any format you do." Fortunately, then-GM Bill Cusack was of the same mind. Enter Critical Mass Media as our consultant. (Yep...Randy Michaels' company at that time), and off we went to battle.
It was a fun time. I remember they spent money on Army surplus stuff (fatigues, etc) for the staff to decorate the studios and offices for morale. For any of the old 'BNS staff, let me say, it was a great radio
battle. I've never forgotten it.
Which was also why WCOL copied all of WBNS's liners. Same philosophy. Control the cume and you control what people are thinking.
But, Great Trails problems were brewing well before the Alan Kaye fiasco. That came after the 92X format
flip. The company had been floundering for several years before, amassing (if I remember hearing the figure right) about $40 million in debt that they had to continue to service. They had sold off all but the Dayton and Columbus properties and still had a mountain of debt. They "tweaked" the 92X format several times in the late 80's, which also contributed to its' downfall. You couldn't be sure any given month whether you were listening to a CHR, a Rock 40, etc. For every "action" in the market, Great Trails flinched and reacted.
And that also was why when WBNS flipped against WCOL, we at 'COL argued very strongly to management to fight WBNS. The management at WBNS figured if they flipped, Great Trails would dump the oldies format.
My exact words in a meeting in the WCOL GM's office on the day of the BNS flip were: "If you guys don't get your backs up and fight this, any (expletive deleted) with a 3 kilowatter will take you on in any format you do." Fortunately, then-GM Bill Cusack was of the same mind. Enter Critical Mass Media as our consultant. (Yep...Randy Michaels' company at that time), and off we went to battle.
It was a fun time. I remember they spent money on Army surplus stuff (fatigues, etc) for the staff to decorate the studios and offices for morale. For any of the old 'BNS staff, let me say, it was a great radio
battle. I've never forgotten it.
D
Dirty_Harry
Guest
alans613 said:
Alan, 92X's switch to Rock 40 was the beginning of the end. If my memory serves correctly, that format lasted only about a year. The REAL 92X people miss was the CHR version and it was pretty much an exact clone of Z93 ... always a pretty upbeat station. WNCI has never filled that void ... always vairly conservative. It is a waste of 175,000 watts!
D
Dirty_Harry
Guest
CatFM said:
The same could be said for all WBNS stations. 97.1 sounds hollow and dull (although for some reason this works for me), WBNS-AM and ONN all sound flat. ONN has this "Community Access" quality to it ... a little reverb there would add some "breaking news" excitement, IMO.
I agree with 'BNS's processing on 97.1...it's dull and flat, and i've derided it several times on this board. 97.1 should sound bigger. It's sad to see a station that has brand new studios in downtown Columbus(Yes, i've been in there and it absolutely blew me away)but yet it has such bad processing. It seems like they spend their money on the way the studios look, which no listener cares about or will EVER see, instead of improving the sound of their station. I also agree that ONN looks like a Public Access station...I had digital cable a few years back and I remember laughing at how bad that station looked. I don't listen to 'BNS-AM so I won't comment on it.
I didn't comment on 92X when it was straight up CHR because I never heard it in that form. I've only heard that one tape of their Rock 40 days from late in their existence. I DO know that Z-93 was an awesome-sounding station, and was also owned by Alex Williams' Great Trails Broadcasting. Z was amazing in its heyday back from 84-95 before it got sold to a few different owners(GT sold it to Clear Channel, Clear Channel divested it to Blue Chip, and then Radio One bought BC)and went through several morning show hosts and PDs. Z isn't the station it used to be today due to several factors, one including that Radio One also owns the Power 107.5 clone Hot 102.9 which is a Rhythmic CHR, which means Z and Hot share some of the same music. Hot also stole several of Z's potential listeners with the similarities in the formats.
On WNCI...They have always been an ultra-conservative CHR since I started listening to them in late-1990. This isn't saying 'NCI isn't a great success story, because it is(Except for the lame-a$* AC days in '93 as I said earlier), but Columbus could use a 2nd CHR to battle it, such as a 92X or Hot 105/Kiss/Power Pig. 'NCI has always thrived on competition, as competition makes any company in any line of business more successful. Just think if 97.1 went CHR...it could be a fun potential battle at either end of the 97's on the radio dial. 8)
I didn't comment on 92X when it was straight up CHR because I never heard it in that form. I've only heard that one tape of their Rock 40 days from late in their existence. I DO know that Z-93 was an awesome-sounding station, and was also owned by Alex Williams' Great Trails Broadcasting. Z was amazing in its heyday back from 84-95 before it got sold to a few different owners(GT sold it to Clear Channel, Clear Channel divested it to Blue Chip, and then Radio One bought BC)and went through several morning show hosts and PDs. Z isn't the station it used to be today due to several factors, one including that Radio One also owns the Power 107.5 clone Hot 102.9 which is a Rhythmic CHR, which means Z and Hot share some of the same music. Hot also stole several of Z's potential listeners with the similarities in the formats.
On WNCI...They have always been an ultra-conservative CHR since I started listening to them in late-1990. This isn't saying 'NCI isn't a great success story, because it is(Except for the lame-a$* AC days in '93 as I said earlier), but Columbus could use a 2nd CHR to battle it, such as a 92X or Hot 105/Kiss/Power Pig. 'NCI has always thrived on competition, as competition makes any company in any line of business more successful. Just think if 97.1 went CHR...it could be a fun potential battle at either end of the 97's on the radio dial. 8)
T
TheVibe
Guest
alans613 said:
Umm, yeah. I would have to agree like big time.
D
Dirty_Harry
Guest
alans613 said:
I think they need to do some work on the presentation and production value over there. For some reason even the new Columbus Sports Network can make a Clippers or Destroyers game seem more "big time" than any of the stuff you see on ONN. I think they also made a huge mistake going over to 10's theme music and graphics.
alans613 said:
As someone who used to go up and down I-71 a lot in those days, I can tell you I agree with you that Z-93 was a great sounding station. I think I've mentioned before that when I lived in Cincy, I would put up with static to listen to that station because I thought it sounded so good. I also remember being in Dayton over the course of a several years noticing the various Z-93 billboards, and logos over the years and noticing how they were always the same used by 92-X. But what you may not know is that the motivating factor in changing the format from WJAI (country) to WGTZ Z-93's brand of CHR, was the success GT had with 92-X. They used to get up to 13 shares at their peak.
I truly miss 92-X. They weren't rhythmic, but they had enough upbeat rock and alternative/dance music that it was pretty much perfect for my ears. The production value was great and I very seldom had to change the channel like I do with WNCI ... which I can't listen to for any length of time. WNCI is way too much of a slave to dayparts, or at least it was (I don't know, I don't listen anymore.) I don't know how lucrative the demographics are for CHR, but 97.1 should dig up some old Great Trails people and clone it. They could easily take some listeners from both Power 107 and WNCI ....... again, don't know how great the demographics are, though,. but it would have to be better than the 3.0 shares WBNS gets ...............
Buuuuuuuuuuut, I doubt WBNS has the talent or, ESPECIALLY, the showmanship over there to pull it off. If they tried to do it, I'm sure the end result would sound bland and lifeless and it would be a failure ........ that's kind of how they seem to do things over there. You can't run a successful CHR with flat processing and bland personalities.
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