-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
Worst record labels for "cue burn"
- Thread starter jefflaurence
- Start date
And now more useless but interesting (to some) trivia: the original oil painting titled "His Master's Voice," which later became the Victor (1901) and RCA Victor (1930s) trademarks, did not depict the Victor Talking Machine. The original phonograph to which the dog was listening with a cocked head was an Edison Cylinder Phonograph. When New Jersey machine shop owner Eldridge Johnson won the rights to the German flat-record "gramophone" and started making and selling "Victor Talking Machines" (Johnson had just won that big court fight and was thus the "Victor") he bought that painting and had the Edison machine painted out and replaced with his open-horn disc phono. Kind of a 1900 version of Photoshopping.
If you think about it, the title "His Master's Voice" would only make sense with the Edison machine, because all Edison cylinder machines could both record and play back. There's no way the dog could literally hear "His Master's Voice" on the Victor machine unless his master happened to be an artist under contract with the label.
Also, Johnson's rights to the HMV painting only applied to the USA, which is why later products made for export never included the "dog" logo, but instead RCA's "meatball."
If you think about it, the title "His Master's Voice" would only make sense with the Edison machine, because all Edison cylinder machines could both record and play back. There's no way the dog could literally hear "His Master's Voice" on the Victor machine unless his master happened to be an artist under contract with the label.
Also, Johnson's rights to the HMV painting only applied to the USA, which is why later products made for export never included the "dog" logo, but instead RCA's "meatball."
RCA was an industry giant hard see it all fall apart.
Savage said:
Yep. I heard this story too.....And here's the ORIGINAL cylinder painting.
http://forum.santabanta.com/showthr...His-Masters-Voice-quot-quot-*-The-nipper-saga
They say if you look really close at the original painting, you can see traces of the original Edison phonograph under the Victor machine painted over it.....
Mike Sheridan said:
Further off-topic...after going Country in Wheeling WV and receiving an MD promotion, my RCA regional gave me one of those 2-foot-tall Nipper dogs...which I have to this day.
On the bottom it reads...
"Trademark of General Electric".
Some will call it genius...others evil genius...but to sell the electronics to French outfit Thomson, and the record division to Bertelsmann...and then retain ownership of the RCA logos and Nipper - forcing Thomson and BMG to license the icons from GE, was brilliant. Whatever attorney came up with that one certainly earned his fee.
BTW I think I had one of those late Dynaflex LPs that actually developed cue-burn...
Markieo said:I'm surprised no one's mentioned Liberty or Atlantic/Atco...the ones pressed at Shelley in Huntington Station NY were the worst for cue AFAIK!
In my day (80's)...Liberty was an EMI product and therefore durable as the pressings were the same a Capitol's.
Atlantic/Atco were all vinyl as I remember...not a lot of problems unless you or the tone arm were abusive.
It's strange that Atlantic has been mentioned as one of the worst 45s for Q-Burn. IMHO, the Spinners' "I'll Be Around" was one of the toughest, cleanest 45s pressed to vinyl. A copy from my collection has zero q-burn, although the fade is a bit crispy, most likely due to turntable and manilla shuck residue. The ultimate Quiet-Q-Burn test for Atlantic or any other label has to be Roberta Flack's "The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face." We transferred it to 15 ips reel and cart when it was added. The cart (yes, gray Fidelipac with rattling metal tension bar) had too much flutter so it was most often played from tape. Thankfully, it's available on CD for those stations/formats that might play the song in Leap Year Double Lunar Rotation.
Jeff Laurence said:
My memory on this topic is blurred by the fact that some songs were more prone to have noticeable cueburn because of low levels on the intros. "The Letter" started with three snare drum beats well below the level of the rest of the recording.
Robert Flack's "First Time" had a similar issue. It's hard to get good signal-to-noise ratio when the signal is weak to begin with.
When I play a 45 now, the thing that jumps out at me is not so much the cueburn, but the wow. Tolerances on centering the grooves on the hole must have been pretty loose. (But I recall Motown being really good on that, too.)
I remember putting 45s on the Technics turntables without the 45 adapter, holding my thumbnail to locate the point and distance of maximum offset, sliding the 45 from that point toward the center by half the distance of the error, and locking it down using the spindle clamp from an ITC 750 tape deck before carting it up. It was odd to see the record wobbling off-center, with the tone arm holding perfectly still, but it got rid of much of the wow.
Paul_Warren said:
One of the very WORST off-center records I ever owned was an original copy of "Have I The Right" The Honeycombs. I picked it up at a Value Village in Lynnwood, WA and it was in PRISTINE condition. Thought I got a bargain (for a DIME too!), but I didn't look too carefully because when I took it home and played it, I actually needed Dramamine....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9C3tZwDpx4
With Atlantic back in the day, most Atlantic 45 singles were on vinyl and very nice quality. Exceptions were -MO Monarch in California, -LY Shelley Products. Huntington Station, NY. -SP Specialty Records Corp in Olyphant, PA and even -PL Plastic Products Memphis, TN were usually good for long life and freedom from Cue Burn. Liberty vinyl pressings were good pre-EMI. EMI records were usually very good.
Is it even in that rotation JPB? Can't recall the last time I've even heard that gem!
JustPastBuffalo said:
I'll always remember calling up DB as "American Pie", KB's #1 song of 1972, was playing to finish the 8-hour magnum opus of a 1972 Year-End Top 100.
That was the year I wrote down each week's Top 10 and gave each song a 1-10 point value...all based from the on-air explanation Debaser gave during the previous year's countdown. When my #1 song turned out to be "Alone Again Naturally" and 'KB's was "American Pie"...I called to explain what I'd done and ask about the discrepancy. DB answered (IIRC) they'd combined their chart with Billboard's, BB's #1 was actually Roberta's "The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face"...and here's the part I remember verbatim..."but it just wasn't palatable".
12/31/72. Chas learns countdowns are theater of the mind too.
Here's what blows my mind after all these years about "Face"...such a quiet (yet powerful) record to begin with...how it did so well in those days of still-pretty transparent processing, just before the Orban revolution. That was a song that demanded you listen close.
While I type this, Adele's recent "Someone Like You" comes to mind, yet it was recorded and mixed to grab you from the beginning notes. It's probably the closest Top 40's come in recent years to the "quiet storm" emotion of "Face"...yet the two stand in sharp contrast.
Good thing Roberta Flack was on Atlantic...she might not have made it to #1 on Columbia or Bell for all the cue burn.
Has anyone bought a 45 where the hole was stamped offcenter?
I picked up the Caravelles - You Don't Have to be a Baby to Cry
on the SMASH label years back and as soon as I put the needle
on the record - well the tone arm looked like it had too much to
drink the way it was swinging side to side.
(And, No, I didn't check the record when I bought it. I never
had that happen before.) After that, I checked for the hole and
to see if the record was scratched.
I have Carole King's It Might As Well Rain Until September and the
hole in that 45 is the same size as an LP's. UK version. I always
had to lay a 33 1/3 LP down and then lay Carole's 45 over that
because her record would never lay flat down on the platter.
Any thoughts from anyone on 45's that were colored? Bright orange, red, I had one that was yellow. I thought they were pretty neat.
I picked up the Caravelles - You Don't Have to be a Baby to Cry
on the SMASH label years back and as soon as I put the needle
on the record - well the tone arm looked like it had too much to
drink the way it was swinging side to side.
(And, No, I didn't check the record when I bought it. I never
had that happen before.) After that, I checked for the hole and
to see if the record was scratched.
I have Carole King's It Might As Well Rain Until September and the
hole in that 45 is the same size as an LP's. UK version. I always
had to lay a 33 1/3 LP down and then lay Carole's 45 over that
because her record would never lay flat down on the platter.
Any thoughts from anyone on 45's that were colored? Bright orange, red, I had one that was yellow. I thought they were pretty neat.
heydaybegone said:
Dial Global's Adult Standards still plays it.
Many of the Euro 45s had a small spindle hole, with a triangular knockout in the event you wanted to use the large center spindle format with a 45-only changer. As a general rule these records were centered very well with the small "standard" spindle hole, but if you punched out the insert, the resulting large "45" hole might be poorly centered. If you encounter a badly off-center 45 examine the center hole; you may have a "DIY" 45-hole version.
Frequently the "punch-out" dual-hole 45s also had the "Capitol" style non-slip bumps around the edge of the label. I recall one of the "triangle-knockout" 45s we played at WENE was the Magic Lanterns' "Shame, Shame" (1968.)
Colored vinyl was actually standard when the 45 rpm record debuted in 1949. RCA industrial designer John Vassos picked out seven different vinyl colors to represent the "seven categories of music" with the new format's debut. Green vinyl was used for C&W, red for classical, yellow for "children's," black for popular, midnight blue for semi-classical, etc. The costs involved in constantly washing out colors in the record presses for other music-type runs led RCA to abandon colored vinyl around 1952, although it returned for radio pressings in the 60s and 70s.
Frequently the "punch-out" dual-hole 45s also had the "Capitol" style non-slip bumps around the edge of the label. I recall one of the "triangle-knockout" 45s we played at WENE was the Magic Lanterns' "Shame, Shame" (1968.)
Colored vinyl was actually standard when the 45 rpm record debuted in 1949. RCA industrial designer John Vassos picked out seven different vinyl colors to represent the "seven categories of music" with the new format's debut. Green vinyl was used for C&W, red for classical, yellow for "children's," black for popular, midnight blue for semi-classical, etc. The costs involved in constantly washing out colors in the record presses for other music-type runs led RCA to abandon colored vinyl around 1952, although it returned for radio pressings in the 60s and 70s.
- Status