Worst sounding/produced big hit

[firepoint525]

John has a point about those "new recordings by the original artists." I have often wondered why these labels cannot get the rights to the original recordings by some of these artists, but somehow, they are able to get the rights to original recordings by deceased artists? One collection that I saw in the store had the original recording of a Marvin Gaye song, but "remakes" by all the other artists! Obviously, since Gaye is deceased, they cannot get him into the studio to record "new" versions of his songs, but it makes me wonder why they don't try harder to get the originals by those artists who are still with us? I'm guessing that these artists go into the studios to make new recordings because there is (still) some money in it for them, but still, it seems to me like they are disgracing their own original recordings!

 

[Kent T]

It has to do with licensing issues. Many major labels are very demanding about how their tunes are licensed out. They also dictate minimum copies which can be licensed and how many tunes from their label which can be used on a comp. It's a very complex issue to deal with.

 

[johnbasalla]

So the decision is to... "stick it" to the public. Record decidedly inferior versions of old hits and market them to an unsuspecting public who don't read the fine print ("All new stereo recordings by one or more of the original artists"). So a new recording of a Grass Roots tune most likely will only feature Robb Grill, the singer. The group's name therefore should be "Grass Root".

This will only p--- off the consumer who might decide to buy less CDs in the future because of this ... Now there's a great business plan for a record company, huh? (NOT!).

 

[Prais]

And you wonder why the music business is in the dumper??

 

[Talk_Dude]

So the decision is to... "stick it" to the public. Record decidedly inferior versions of old hits and market them to an unsuspecting public who don't read the fine print ("All new stereo recordings by one or more of the original artists"). So a new recording of a Grass Roots tune most likely will only feature Robb Grill, the singer. The group's name therefore should be "Grass Root".

This will only p--- off the consumer who might decide to buy less CDs in the future because of this ... Now there's a great business plan for a record company, huh? (NOT!).

Read the history of the Grass Roots. They're one of the most revolving-door bands in history.

The Gras Roots Line ups

1965–1967

Steve Barri (b. Steven Barry Lipkin, February 23, 1942, Brooklyn) — Various Instruments, Producer, Songwriter
Denny Ellis — Rhythm Guitar
Willie Fulton — Lead Vocals, Lead Guitar
Joel Larson — (b. April 29, 1947, San Francisco) - drums
P.F. Sloan (b. Philip Gary Schlein, September 18, 1945, New York) — Lead Vocals, Various Instruments, Producer, Songwriter
David Stensen — (b. February 25, 1947, San Bruno) - Bass Guitar

Classic Lineup 1967–1971

Creed Bratton (b. William Charles Schneider, February 8, 1943, Los Angeles) — Lead Guitar, Lead Vocals, Songwriter (to 1969)
Rick Coonce (b. Erik Michael Coonce, August 1, 1946, Los Angeles) — Drums, Songwriter
Warren Entner (b. July 7, 1944, Boston) — Lead Vocals, Rhythm Guitar, Songwriter
Terry Furlong (b. December 31, 1942, London) — Lead Guitar (1969-71)
Rob Grill (b. Robert Frank Grill, November 30, 1943, Los Angeles) — Lead Vocals, Bass Guitar, Songwriter
Brian Naughton — Lead Guitar (1969-71)
Dennis Provisor (b. November 9, 1950, Los Angeles) — Lead Vocals, keyboards, Songwriter (1969-71)

1972–1975

Warren Entner — Lead Vocals, Rhythm Guitar, Songwriter, Producer
Rob Grill — Lead Vocals, Bass Guitar, Songwriter, Producer
Reed Kailing — Lead Guitar, Songwriter (1972-74)
Reggie Knighton (b. November 3, 1953, Biloxi) — Lead Guitar (1974-75)
Joel Larson — Drums
Terry Dailey — Drums
Dennis Provisor — Lead Vocals, Keyboards, Songwriter
Virgil Weber — Keyboards (1972-74)
Gene Barkin — Guitar, Vocals
Terry Furlong — Lead Guitar

Post–1975

Rick Alexander — Lead Guitar
Steve Berndt — Bass Guitar
Brian Carlyss — Bass Guitar
Terry Danauer — Bass Guitar
Mark Dawson — Bass Guitar and Vocals
Alan Deane — Lead Guitar, lead/background vocals
Coy Fuller — Drums
Ralph Gilmore — Drums
Rob Grill — Lead Vocals, Bass Guitar, Songwriter
Scott Hoyt — Lead Vocals, Lead Guitar
Joel Larson — Drums
Charles Judge — Keyboards
Reagan McKinley — Drums
Luke Mearett — Drums
Chris Merrell — Lead Guitar
David Nagy — Lead Vocals, Bass Guitar
Terry Oubre — Lead Guitar
David Page — Drums
Dennis Provisor — Lead Vocals, Keyboards, Songwriter
Hal Ratliff — Keyboards
Dave Rodgers — Keyboards
Scott Sechman - Lead Guitar, Vocals
Glen Shulfer — Lead Guitar
Mike Steck — Bass Guitar
Gene Wall — Keyboards, Vocals

Current

Joe Dougherty — Drums
Rob Grill — Lead Vocals, Bass Guitar, Songwriter
Dusty Hanvey — Lead Guitar
Larry Nelson — Keyboards

I liked the Grass Roots. Their music was accessible, and easy to cover for most garage bands. Nothing in the instrumentals was especially distinctive, so hearing a bass like played by Mike Steck instead of by Rob Grill won't make a difference. And if Terry Furlong were to play on an album today and use a PRS through a LINE-6, instead of the rig he used in the 1960's, that would sound much more different than if Scott Sechman played today using the same rig as was used on the original recording.

 

[hornet61]

The early groups Coasters and Drifters also had a revolving door of musicians that probably numbers well over 50 each ..considering that there were as many as 2-3 touring at the same time with the same name.

The Drifters take the cake when in the late fifties their manager George Treadwell fired the entire group and replaced them with Five Crowns led by a young singer named Benjamin Nelson aka Ben E King(first release for the "New Drifters " was "There Goes My Baby")... then the onslaught of fake, replacement, temporary, current, etc Drifters began...Their 4cd anthology released by Rhino back in the 80's was in two phases
early fifties-1957 and 1957-late sixtes. It also included a score-card of the different line-ups of the
recording personnel. The actual count and names of Drifters ..well, good luck, too many to document accurately.

 

[hornet61]

So the decision is to... "stick it" to the public. Record decidedly inferior versions of old hits and market them to an unsuspecting public who don't read the fine print ("All new stereo recordings by one or more of the original artists"). So a new recording of a Grass Roots tune most likely will only feature Robb Grill, the singer. The group's name therefore should be "Grass Root".

This will only p--- off the consumer who might decide to buy less CDs in the future because of this ... Now there's a great business plan for a record company, huh? (NOT!).

About the only decent Re-recordings I ever encountered were by K-Tel, especially Cameo/Parkway
artists Bobby Rydell and Chubby Checker..their K-Tel re-recording were kind-a-nice because of the sparkling stereo sound vs the super mono of Cameo/Parkway. And did K-Tel have the foresight that Alan B Klein (Abbkco) would sit on the Cameo/Parkway library and never release it. It took his death for the flood of Cameo/Parkway releases by his heirs........Klein was always a cntroversial chap...look at his history with the Stones and Beatles.
The worst sounding label is Dominion, king of the bad re-recordings, but, also Ronco put out some pretty hideous stuff out in It's day. K-tel started out as strictley a re-release label of cropped original recordings to get 30 cuts on an Lp , then they delved into re-recordings. Oh Yes, Starday/King was a pretty crappy label for re-recordings , yuk.

 

[firepoint525]

So the decision is to... "stick it" to the public. Record decidedly inferior versions of old hits and market them to an unsuspecting public who don't read the fine print ("All new stereo recordings by one or more of the original artists"). So a new recording of a Grass Roots tune most likely will only feature Robb Grill, the singer. The group's name therefore should be "Grass Root".
This will only p--- off the consumer who might decide to buy less CDs in the future because of this ... Now there's a great business plan for a record company, huh? (NOT!).

I have seen some like that, in which they apparently did not even have the right to use the group's name, so the credit reads "(so and so) of the (group name)." Seems like they did that on some Tony Burrows recordings, but heaven knows, he was on so many back then!

 

[billyg]

Maybe, its just me, but I always thought that ("Better) Go Now" by the Moody Blues(1965) sounded muddy and distorted.

drt

I read somewhere that it was a demo recorded at the Marquee Club in London. Decca Records (London in the USA) thought it was decent enough sounding to release it as a single.

 

[Starbucks]

Maybe, its just me, but I always thought that ("Better) Go Now" by the Moody Blues(1965) sounded muddy and distorted.

It wasn't just you.


drt

 

[billyg]

I liked the Grass Roots. Their music was accessible, and easy to cover for most garage bands. Nothing in the instrumentals was especially distinctive, so hearing a bass like played by Mike Steck instead of by Rob Grill won't make a difference. And if Terry Furlong were to play on an album today and use a PRS through a LINE-6, instead of the rig he used in the 1960's, that would sound much more different than if Scott Sechman played today using the same rig as was used on the original recording.

True, their accessibility was one of the reasons the Grass Roots never got much respect by rock critics. They were originally a studio group put together by Steve Barri and PF Sloan. And many of their recordings used LA studio "Wrecking crew" musicians like Hal Blaine on drums and Joe Osborn on bass.

The reason why many oldies artists re-record their hits is that they got screwed out of royalties by bad management or record companies ("Sign this kid, we'll make you famous.."). They can sell them at their concerts and make a few bucks. I remember a interview with Ventures guitarist Don Wilson harping on a re-recorded best of collection a few years ago.. "They sound much better than those lousy 60's recordings because they are recorded digitally.."

 

[Al Timiter]

My nomination for poorly mastered recording: "96 Tears" by ? and the Mysterians. However, it was apparently not produced badly b/c the version on the Camero-Parkway box set was very clean. No overmodulation like on the version we became accustomed to hearing on Oldies stations over the years

And I agree with an earlier post about how terribly produced and/or mastered "Go Now" by the Moody Blues was. Great song, though. Too bad about the production.

Also, speaking of Creed Bratton from the Grassroots, did you guys know that he's the same "Creed" on "The Office?" I find that infinitely amazing and funny at the same time.

 

[oldies76]

I Saw Her Again, by the Mamas & Papas, sounds somewhat horrible. The vocals sound like they are the background, not the instruments. Very low recording levels for the vocals. Otherwise, the song itself is good, just produced in a different fashion.

 

[oldies76]

So the decision is to... "stick it" to the public. Record decidedly inferior versions of old hits and market them to an unsuspecting public who don't read the fine print ("All new stereo recordings by one or more of the original artists").

Yeah, these CD's usually found in discount stores or on download sites like Napster...just pure junk. K-Tel and Goldenlane are major culprits...Gotta be careful when downloading oldies now, just way too many re-records out there.

 

[Talk_Dude]

So the decision is to... "stick it" to the public. Record decidedly inferior versions of old hits and market them to an unsuspecting public who don't read the fine print ("All new stereo recordings by one or more of the original artists").

Yeah, these CD's usually found in discount stores or on download sites like Napster...just pure junk. K-Tel and Goldenlane are major culprits...Gotta be careful when downloading oldies now, just way too many re-records out there.

The thing is, some of the old recordings cannot be re-released because of contract issues. The re-recording of 96 Tears mentioned above was an example of that. Frankly, I don't see how you can condemn all re-recordings as "inferior". Many original recordings in the 1960's by the "original artists" were laid down in crappy little analog studios with ultra-cheap and outdated equipment, and by garage band musicians who were driving trucks full-time a year or two later. For every re-recording of an old garage band song that doesn't sound as good, there are at least as many that are major improvements. I've heard more than a few re-recordings that sound like what the original should have sounded like had it not been recorded in the 1960's on old, beat up, 1950's equipment.

 

[hornet61]

So the decision is to... "stick it" to the public. Record decidedly inferior versions of old hits and market them to an unsuspecting public who don't read the fine print ("All new stereo recordings by one or more of the original artists").

Yeah, these CD's usually found in discount stores or on download sites like Napster...just pure junk. K-Tel and Goldenlane are major culprits...Gotta be careful when downloading oldies now, just way too many re-records out there.

The thing is, some of the old recordings cannot be re-released because of contract issues. The re-recording of 96 Tears mentioned above was an example of that. Frankly, I don't see how you can condemn all re-recordings as "inferior". Many original recordings in the 1960's by the "original artists" were laid down in crappy little analog studios with ultra-cheap and outdated equipment, and by garage band musicians who were driving trucks full-time a year or two later. For every re-recording of an old garage band song that doesn't sound as good, there are at least as many that are major improvements. I've heard more than a few re-recordings that sound like what the original should have sounded like had it not been recorded in the 1960's on old, beat up, 1950's equipment.

It took Alan B Klein to die..for his estate to release the Cameo/Parkway catalog, I believe the 4 cd Cameo Box has "96 Tears".

 

[Talk_Dude]

It took Alan B Klein to die..for his estate to release the Cameo/Parkway catalog, I believe the 4 cd Cameo Box has "96 Tears".

The death of Alan Klein was a blessing to the world of music in many, many ways.

 

[Prais]

Mr. Klein never spoke highly of Talk_Dude, either.

 

[oldies76]

Frankly, I don't see how you can condemn all re-recordings as "inferior". Many original recordings in the 1960's by the "original artists" were laid down in crappy little analog studios with ultra-cheap and outdated equipment, and by garage band musicians who were driving trucks full-time a year or two later.

What I mean, is that I much prefer to own (download, buy the original 45...etc..) the original radio version, than to have a re-record that sounds updated, or certain instruments are missing or the vocal track altered. That's not what we hear on the radio, so why would we want an altered version? Radio has done a wonderful job so far, in maintaining their libraries to originality.

One exception, KRTH 101 has played a re-record of "Da Doo Ron Ron" by the Crystals lately....so obvious and different from the 1963 original release. I cringe every time I hear this re-recorded version. The original is not downloadable either.

By chance, have you heard "Moonlight Feels Right" on napster? It sounds awful, so altered.

 

[Prais]

Talk_dude said, "Radio has done a wonderful job so far, in maintaining their libraries to originality."

Maybe where YOU live, but I've heard "oldies stations" who pay little attention to "originals." Many "original" Roger Miller cuts seem to be no longer avaiilable. There are others.