They added WKYH sometime around 1980. The West Virginia TV Guide, at one time, carried stations from Charleston-Huntington, Parkersburg, and Beckley-Bluefield-Oak Hill as in-market stations, and various stations from Columbus, Wheeling, the Clarksburg area, and later WXIX Cincinnati as "cable channels", though Columbus was available OTA in Waverly, Jackson, Athens, and other places where the West Virginia TVG was the default edition. I always thought it would make sense to add at least WKYT for Eastern Kentucky viewers, but that never happened. The WVTVG was one of the more interesting editions. At one time I had a massive collection of TVGs, but most of them got ruined due to poor storage (got left in my parents' garage in Myrtle Beach where they absorbed moisture and got moldy), so I had to discard them (ouch!) and was able only to preserve about 30 of them, but did remove the "channels listed" pages and scanned them into PDF format.
-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
Worst TV stations ever
- Thread starter rwells2265
- Start date
They added WKYH sometime around 1980. The West Virginia TV Guide, at one time, carried stations from Charleston-Huntington, Parkersburg, and Beckley-Bluefield-Oak Hill as in-market stations, and various stations from Columbus, Wheeling, the Clarksburg area, and later WXIX Cincinnati as "cable channels", though Columbus was available OTA in Waverly, Jackson, Athens, and other places where the West Virginia TVG was the default edition. I always thought it would make sense to add at least WKYT for Eastern Kentucky viewers, but that never happened. The WVTVG was one of the more interesting editions. At one time I had a massive collection of TVGs, but most of them got ruined due to poor storage (got left in my parents' garage in Myrtle Beach where they absorbed moisture and got moldy), so I had to discard them (ouch!) and was able only to preserve about 30 of them, but did remove the "channels listed" pages and scanned them into PDF format.
Also no WDBJ or WSLS despite the former being the de facto CBS affiliate for a large portion of southern West Virginia and the latter having decent viewership in southern WV despite the presence of strong NBC affiliates WHIS/WVVA and WSAZ
Actually, Mercer County (and, I'm almost positive, Summers County) got the Central Virginia TV Guide, not the West Virginia edition. It didn't carry WOAY, but curiously enough did carry WSWP as a "cable station", and of course it carried WHIS/WVVA.
Fun fact, the Central Virginia edition was also sold in Pendleton County WV, as it had listings for WSVA/WHSV Harrisonburg, and Franklin cable carried WDBJ and WSLS at that time as well. Evidently the cable head-end was on a "sweet spot" for Roanoke reception, and if you're in the right place, you have the valleys shooting straight from Roanoke (or near enough) up to Franklin and beyond. In the right spot, you might possibly get Roanoke OTA even without cable, though the signal might not be any great shakes by the time it got there. Mountain residents sometimes had to be very forgiving of snowy and weak signals.
During the 1970's and until 1986, I believe WCHS from Charleston was the de facto CBS affiliate for much of southern West Virginia.
I remember when I stayed at a motel in Beckley, West Virginia during July 1996, the cable tv system only had WDBJ from Roanoke, Virginia as the CBS affiliate. It also carried WOAY Oak Hill and WCHS Charleston as the ABC affiliate, WVAH Charleston as the FOX affiliate, and WSAZ Huntington and WVVA as the NBC affiliate. I recall that the picture of WSAZ was fuzzy on that cable system while the other network channels had a clear picture.
Indeed it was. The BBOH market didn't have its own CBS affiliate until 2001. WCHS was the default CBS affiliate for not only the C-H market, but BBOH (much of it, anyway) and Parkersburg. When WCHS went with ABC in 1986, you then had the anomalous situation (yet no more anomalous than Cincinnati and Dayton, Washington and Baltimore, et al) of two network affiliates fairly close by another, with much overlapping coverage area, indeed, in a favorable reception area, WOAY can be received OTA (though no longer on cable) in Charleston (not sure how easy it was to get WCHS OTA in Beckley or Oak Hill, due to terrain). So it was a situation of WOWK for CBS in the western part of the market, WDBJ in the eastern part, and Beckley, well, flip a coin. When WCHS went to ABC, I about halfway expected WOAY to flip to CBS, but that didn't happen, WOAY's association with ABC runs long and deep, WOAY has always been a family-owned (Thomas) station, WOAY is their only TV operation.
FWIW, I spent most of the summer of 1987 with family in Tazewell VA, not far from Bluefield and our traditional homestead of McDowell County WV. The Central Virginia edition of TV Guide was what we got.
Of the stations listed in that edition, we received only WVVA, WDBJ and WSLS-TV (the latter two were pretty snowy, but watchable/listenable). WOAY-TV was our ABC affiliate with a clear signal, but wasn't included in the edition for unknown reasons (probably couldn't afford to). WSWP-TV, the VHF PBSer from Beckley, was ghosty and barely watchable but audible.
The other stations in that edition–WSET-TV and WJPR from Lynchburg and WBRA-TV and WVFT from Roanoke–were non-existant OTA, at least where I was. And we certainly got nothing from Harrisonburg (WHSV or WVPT) or the North Carolina outlets.
The local cable system carried WOAY, WVVA, WDBJ and WSLS, plus WBRA's satellite from Norton VA (now defunct) and the network affiliates from the Bristol-Johnson City-Kingsport market; those three (WCYB, WJHL and WKPT) had no OTA reach that far east into SW VA and weren't in the Central VA TV Guide. Huntington-Charleston stations were certainly blocked by terrain.
Of the stations listed in that edition, we received only WVVA, WDBJ and WSLS-TV (the latter two were pretty snowy, but watchable/listenable). WOAY-TV was our ABC affiliate with a clear signal, but wasn't included in the edition for unknown reasons (probably couldn't afford to). WSWP-TV, the VHF PBSer from Beckley, was ghosty and barely watchable but audible.
The other stations in that edition–WSET-TV and WJPR from Lynchburg and WBRA-TV and WVFT from Roanoke–were non-existant OTA, at least where I was. And we certainly got nothing from Harrisonburg (WHSV or WVPT) or the North Carolina outlets.
The local cable system carried WOAY, WVVA, WDBJ and WSLS, plus WBRA's satellite from Norton VA (now defunct) and the network affiliates from the Bristol-Johnson City-Kingsport market; those three (WCYB, WJHL and WKPT) had no OTA reach that far east into SW VA and weren't in the Central VA TV Guide. Huntington-Charleston stations were certainly blocked by terrain.
Last edited:
I didn't know stations had to pay any sort of fee to be listed in TVG. I thought that TVG just listed whatever stations were widely available within a given edition's coverage area. You would have always had fringes of those coverages that might get an out-of-market station, but not enough to justify carriage.
The Central Virginia edition was kind of strange in that it listed major Triad and Raleigh-Durham stations (WFMY, WSJS/WXII, WRAL, WTVD, not sure about WGHP) and its coverage area actually plunged down into North Carolina between the Triad and RDU markets, IIRC Alamance County was Central Virginia. The only thing I could ever figure out, it was roughly between Triad and RDU and may also have received Roanoke stations OTA. Triad and Roanoke were not impossible to receive in each other markets' core cities, I recall getting WXII (and may also have gotten WFMY) with a rabbit ear at the Days Inn in downtown Roanoke. Greensboro and Durham can also get each others' stations with any kind of halfway decent antenna.
I checked and Central Virginia TVG did actually add WOAY around 1997. They also carried WGHP back as-far-as.
I hesitated about the latter, as the main Triad stations 2/8/12 did have their transmitters scattered around, with WXII being all the way out near King NC, and IIRC WGHP's stick was further south. Viewers on the very northern edge of South Carolina (Cheraw et al) could get WGHP while WXII, and to a lesser extent WFMY, would have been more difficult. WXII's Grade B contours nicked the very southern edge of West Virginia, though whether that reflected any feasible OTA viewership, hard to say.
I hesitated about the latter, as the main Triad stations 2/8/12 did have their transmitters scattered around, with WXII being all the way out near King NC, and IIRC WGHP's stick was further south. Viewers on the very northern edge of South Carolina (Cheraw et al) could get WGHP while WXII, and to a lesser extent WFMY, would have been more difficult. WXII's Grade B contours nicked the very southern edge of West Virginia, though whether that reflected any feasible OTA viewership, hard to say.
I recall that during early to late 1970's, the default TV Guide edition for Columbus, Ohio was the Southern Ohio edition. Southern Ohio TVG only had tv stations listings for Cincinnati, Columbus, Dayton, Lima, and Zanesville.
Then in 1979, the Columbus edition became the default TV Guide edition for the Columbus. It only had tv station listings for Columbus and Zanesville.
I never understood why, but the TV Guide editions for Columbus and Southern Ohio never did carry any tv station listings from the Charleston-Huntington market.
I remember that newspapers in Southeastern Ohio had tv stations listing from Columbus and Charleston-Huntington. And during the 1970's, the Columbus Dispatch newspaper had out of town tv listings for WOUB from Athens. WSAZ and WHTN/WOWK from Huntington, WSFG from Newark, WTAP from Parkersburg, and WHIZ from Zanesville.
In my opinion, TV Guide should have created an edition for Southeastern Ohio. Maybe call it Columbus-Huntington edition or Southeastern Ohio edition carrying listings for Athens, Charleston-Huntington, Columbus, Parkersburg, and Zanesville.
A lot of folks in Southeastern Ohio sure had to rely on the newspaper back then for complete listings of tv stations from the Charleston-Huntington and Columbus television markets.
Then in 1979, the Columbus edition became the default TV Guide edition for the Columbus. It only had tv station listings for Columbus and Zanesville.
I never understood why, but the TV Guide editions for Columbus and Southern Ohio never did carry any tv station listings from the Charleston-Huntington market.
I remember that newspapers in Southeastern Ohio had tv stations listing from Columbus and Charleston-Huntington. And during the 1970's, the Columbus Dispatch newspaper had out of town tv listings for WOUB from Athens. WSAZ and WHTN/WOWK from Huntington, WSFG from Newark, WTAP from Parkersburg, and WHIZ from Zanesville.
In my opinion, TV Guide should have created an edition for Southeastern Ohio. Maybe call it Columbus-Huntington edition or Southeastern Ohio edition carrying listings for Athens, Charleston-Huntington, Columbus, Parkersburg, and Zanesville.
A lot of folks in Southeastern Ohio sure had to rely on the newspaper back then for complete listings of tv stations from the Charleston-Huntington and Columbus television markets.
I remember the listings in the Columbus Dispatch, they had that neat tabloid section for entertainment and all sorts of related things. I know they used to carry ads for Jimmy Rea Electronics on Broad Street. They did indeed carry WSAZ and WHTN/WOWK, as free-standing listings, not in a grid or interlocked channel number listings, but with a small column and block for each station, listing the programs and times. I don't recall what they did with the other stations.
From about 1970 on, there really wouldn't have been a need to carry C-H listings in the Southern Ohio edition. The West Virginia edition listed Columbus 4/6/10 as "cable" channels (notched slugs and later 4C, 6C, and 10C). It was sold as far north as Pike, Vinton, and Athens counties. Beyond that point, C-H viewership, while possible, would have been fairly negligible (though Chillicothe cable did carry WSAZ and WHTN/WOWK and, supposedly, OTA reception is possible per TVTV.com).
The West Virginia TVG did carry WXIX as "19C", and, IMO, should have carried at least WKYT as "27L", after the fashion of the Columbus stations and WXIX, but they didn't do that. The WV TVG was a hodgepodge of "cable" stations and in-state West Virginia stations, but they finally made Clarksburg 5/12 uniform with black channel slugs for both (for the longest time they didn't carry WDTV, then added it with a black slug, continuing to list WBOY as "12C"), ditto WOUB, and kept Columbus as "cable" stations with xC slugs. They dropped WTRF Wheeling about that time and added WKYH/WYMT.
What about ads by tv stations with their logo promoting a tv show?
Wouldn't a tv station have to pay TV Guide a fee for that ad to appear in a TV Guide issue?
I forget exactly how that worked, but at least in the West Virginia edition, you'd have each in-market station with at least one ad each week. Some of the ads were pretty amateurish-looking, keep in mind these were stations with either minuscule or non-existent budgets for designing such a thing.
I know that in the Southern Ohio edition, there were several ads every week for promotion of Avco programming on "2/4/5", Bob Braun, Paul Dixon, and so on. As I noted elsewhere, on one level WLWT, WLWC, and WLWD functioned as a single station, with localized news for each market and some difference in syndicated programming --- they were all three NBC stations and had almost identical schedules most of the day.
I follow a FB group that posts archived pages from TV Guide. They've put up listings from that Southern Ohio edition from the middle '60s, and at that time WLWD cleared more ABC programing in primetime than NBC shows–most of which was cleared by supposed primary CBS station WHIO-TV. WLWD even took ABC's 15-minute early evening news over The Huntley-Brinkley Report, which WHIO also carried. WKEF, which picked up whatever scraps channels 2 and 7 left behind, ran The CBS Evening News with Walter Cronkite.
The Dayton market was confusing with WLWD, WHIO-TV and WKEF carrying shows from all three networks. You needed a scorecard to keep track of it all.
But, I wonder if that was done by design. The Avco Three all ran Paul Dixon at 9, but Dayton and Columbus broke away at 9:30 for local morning shows (though I believe WLWD and WLWC eventually carried the whole show by the time it ended with Dixon's passing in 1974). All 90 minutes of Ruth Lyons ran at noon. And with WLWD's hodgepodge primetime schedule, it all may have been done to reduce duplication on the commonly-owned stations.
Last edited:
The Dayton situation may also have been a case where the two established VHF stations were willing to give up the stability of being the exclusive sources of NBC and CBS in exchange for keeping a full-time ABC affiliation away from WKEF (or the other new U, WKTR). And ABC was complicit, preferring to put its bigger shows on WLWD or WHIO than to give a full-time affiliation to WKEF or WKTR.
That eventually became too blatant for the FCC, which stepped in and ordered ABC to offer a full affiliation in the market... which then led to a fight between WKEF and WKTR that ended up destroying WKTR in the long run.
It was a pretty brutal business up there on the UHF dial back then.
That eventually became too blatant for the FCC, which stepped in and ordered ABC to offer a full affiliation in the market... which then led to a fight between WKEF and WKTR that ended up destroying WKTR in the long run.
It was a pretty brutal business up there on the UHF dial back then.
That makes sense, Scott. But ABC wasn't on par with CBS and NBC at that point, and both WLWD and WHIO were so well established (as you correctly noted) that they shouldn't have had much to worry about from a pair of new UHFs siphoning off viewers in large numbers. In addition, the proximity to Cincinnati meant that all the networks had some significant level of VHF clearance in that corner of southwest Ohio.
And IIRC, Taft's dynamic duo (WKRC-TV and WTVN-TV) had similar issues with signal overlap that the Avco Three had due to their common ownership. So ABC probably would have benefitted from a stable relationship in Dayton, even if it had to be with a lowly UHF.
That's the missing piece of the puzzle I was looking for --- trading TVG ad space for commercial spots. Win-win for everyone. Thanks.
I've wondered, too, if WLWD and WHIO were trying to carve out a reason for people to view them instead of Cincinnati stations, and time-shifting and mixing up schedules might be a means to that end, to allow a greater diversity of programming in any one daypart or part thereof, especially in prime time. Only the northern part of the Dayton market could get Dayton and nothing else easily OTA (but then there was WIMA/WLIO), Dayton proper and everything south of it could get Cincinnati with no problem, also, Columbus could probably have been received with a better antenna in Dayton, and even more easily in Springfield and the eastern part of the Dayton market. I don't know, I'm just guessing.
It also works the other way around --- if viewers in Cincinnati could receive Dayton without working up too much of a sweat (the Cincinnati area is more hilly than the Dayton area, where things start to flatten out into a more typically Midwestern lay of the land), ditto viewers in the western part of the Columbus market, then those viewers, too, have more diversity of programming in any one daypart, if they get creative enough to turn to Dayton stations, or just get curious and say "hey, what's on 2 and 7 tonight, anything different?".
It sounds convoluted, but just pick up any TV Guide at random, whether Southern Ohio or any other edition, and note that schedules often vary significantly from one market to another, time-shifting, pre-empting, and so on. That was one of the appeals of cable providers carrying duplicate network affiliates --- schedules from market to market weren't stamped out of a cookie cutter as they are today. In our time, pre-empting is rare, almost all markets have full-network service (using subchannels in smaller markets), non-network programming is basically all the same, only different channels (finding what channel Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy! are on when you're traveling is a thing, as well as that "7 pm vs 7:30 pm ET" situation), and the only thing that varies all that much from market to market is local news. Gone are the days of "cool" independents with syndicated offerings, reruns, and huge movie libraries, WXIX, WUAB, WTTG, and WTTV come immediately to mind. That role is now filled by subchannel diginets and various cable networks.
TLDR, the Dayton market had a lot of overlap, and WLWD and WHIO may have needed to carve out some reason for viewers to watch them instead of Cincinnati or Columbus, aside from local news.
There must have been a few NBC stations in the Eastern Time Zone that aired Today from 8 to 10. WATR-TV (WCCT-TV) in Waterbury CT in the mid '70s comes to mind...and that station could qualify for this thread also.
Going back to Southern Ohio in this period this link will illustrate the situation in more detail.
TV Guide Southern Ohio edition, April 25, 1966
Going back to Southern Ohio in this period this link will illustrate the situation in more detail.
TV Guide Southern Ohio edition, April 25, 1966