We have Classic Rock, Classic Soul/Hip Hop/R&B, Classic Country, etc., but nobody has tried a Classic Alternative format. Cuts from the 70''s, Punk, NYDolls, Pistols, 80's New Wave, JoBoxers, Adam Ant, 90's Grunge, Screaming Trees, Flys. To my knowledge, I never heard a Classic Alternative format on the Commercial band.
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would a classic alternative format be successful
- Thread starter daddyoo
- Start date
That broad of a classic alternative? Probably not. Philly's Alternative history dates back to really only what... 1993 when WDRE signed on with the simulcast from Long Island? And then when they went live and local in 1996 with Y100 morphing from Hot AC/CHR into Alternative around the same time.
But also at the same time, you can have Beasley cherry-pick out some of the best from that era's playlist. Ben FM already does/did, spiking in songs like "Freak of the Week" by Marvelous 3, and "Open Up Your Eyes" by Tonic (mostly on their "Throwback Thursdays." And WMGK will be easing more into 90s rock as the target demo shifts, and will start dropping more tunes than the occasional Nirvana, REM, Red Hot Chili Peppers, and U2.
Because of the strong performance of male-targeting stations like WIP and WMMR, it'd be tough for a Classic Alt to find any good $$ to make it profitable.
And finally, the only commercial "Classic Alt" station I can remember was "Alt 102.9" in Tacoma, which ran a mostly Classic Alternative playlist between 2016 and 2017 before being sold out of iHeart's Aloha Trust.
It’s a format likely to work where it is—digital platforms. You’re not going to find enough of a sellable audience on a market-level basis to make it commercially viable.
I've been studying the classic alt format for a while now. The only stations I can say that get anywhere near classic alt would be ones such as WRNR 103.1, a baltimore rimshot and...well that's about it. It's a format of some of the greatest music ever made, but considering it's one of the least hit-driven formats, it's hard to monetize.
And truth be told, that is radio's biggest setback currently. You just cannot compete with spotify. It's impossible, unless electricity became free and radio stations could just be on 24/7 free.
Remember "broad"casting and not indiviualcasting
And truth be told, that is radio's biggest setback currently. You just cannot compete with spotify. It's impossible, unless electricity became free and radio stations could just be on 24/7 free.
Remember "broad"casting and not indiviualcasting
And from what I saw in their financials today, Spotify cannot make money.
Is Classic Alternative even a real format?
In my market we have an Alternative/Modern Rock station. (They use the two words interchangeably). I'm not a regular listener, but I tune in from time to time and while they play new music they play quite a bit of music on a regular basis that is 20 years old or older. On top of that from 5PM Fridays until sometime on Sunday they do the 90's Alternative Weekend. They're independently owned.
Check them out http://www.radio1041.fm/
In my market we have an Alternative/Modern Rock station. (They use the two words interchangeably). I'm not a regular listener, but I tune in from time to time and while they play new music they play quite a bit of music on a regular basis that is 20 years old or older. On top of that from 5PM Fridays until sometime on Sunday they do the 90's Alternative Weekend. They're independently owned.
Check them out http://www.radio1041.fm/
Digital platforms offer it, ex. First Wave and Lithium on SiriusXM.
Commercially the only station I know that tried it was WTKS in Orlando during nights and weekends, it didn't last long.
For a format to be successful, it needs to begin with successful music. Most of the groups you list were marginal fringe acts in the first place. Hard to make a successful format built around one hit wonders and fringe acts. The more popular artists from that era, such as The Clash or the 90s grunge, get airplay in other formats. Some of the grunge acts still get played on current alternative stations.
The reason AOR caught on, and that classic rock remains a viable format today, is that most of the acts that formed the foundation of AOR had already made an impact on Top 40 radio. The Beatles and the Rolling Stones, of course, had been hitmakers for years; when both began to focus their creativity on non-single album cuts, those tracks transitioned nicely to the new format. The Jefferson Airplane, The Doors, Procol Harum, Big Brother & The Holding Company, Jimi Hendrix -- their hit singles were well known to Top 40 listeners well before many markets even had an album rock station. In the late '70s and early '80s, New Wave spawned new acts that all got Top 40 airplay and, starting in 1981, exposure on the fledgling cable music channel MTV. Nothing similar has happened to any flavor of rock since, while Top 40 radio, now called CHR, has continued to break a series of new performers in a variety of rhythmic genres. Acts that don't fit under the rhythmic umbrella wind up ignored or pitched to AC or even country radio. You have an occasional Mumford & Sons or Adele who offer a single or a few singles that manage to catch on, but by and large, today's most popular radio formats and their listeners have little use for anything that isn't upbeat and predominantly rhythmic in nature.
I used to listen to XM's eclectic rock channels The Loft and Hear Music fairly regularly, but found it hard to get truly excited about much of the new music, although a lot of it was easy on this baby boomer's ears. I had a brief infatuation with Dawes, Mountain Goats and a San Francisco alt-country band called The Bittersweets, and Nathaniel Rateliff's debut was a real blast from the past, but when those stations disappeared, I found myself forgetting about the bands and listening to older music or -- believe it or not -- the infectious pop of Natasha Bedingfield and Katy Perry and the well-crafted country of Dierks Bentley. Rap still leaves me cold, as does EDM, but I suppose at 64 I am not expected to appreciate either. But even though I've found ways to be exposed to newer rock-based sounds, I find few of them anything more than pleasant, and ultimately forgettable. If someone who grew up on rock feels this way now, imagine how difficult it must be for any variety of alt to get any traction with 25-44s!
This is the battle I continually have with people in the music industry. They really think they can have an impact with fringe music because of streaming or other on-demand services. I point out that the music that funds all of that is still the hit music from either pop or country. That is where the money is, that is where the mass audience is, and that is not going to change, regardless of the devices people use. That's why I still see a place for OTA radio in a digital world, as radio focuses on formats that attract that mass audience. The problem with alternative right now is it doesn't know what it is. If radio gives up on alternative as a format, I wonder if there's a future at all for the music.
They are fantastic. Definitely reminds me of the old KJQ.
To play devils advocate, Salt Lake City is perhaps the most over-radioed market in the country. SLC is also very rock-friendly...one of the few markets that can support 3+ rock stations.
I have always appreciated how Real Radio 104.1 in Orlando and even the second incarnation of WHFS in Baltimore did their classic alternative blocks...nights and weekends when you’d have to put in mindless drivel, filler material, paid programming, etc. Talk paid the bills during the daytime when ads are sold. It allows a bit more leeway for lackluster ratings/revenue as those time slots are the traditional domain of barter and ROS ads.
Classic Alternative seems to have the greatest staying power as a format when A) it’s run by a non-commercial entity (see KGRG1 in Washington), B) in off-hours on a station with a talk format, or C) as an adjunct to a AAA format. There are quite a few who mix in lots of 80’s-90’s alternative with the format while playing a few currents and core artists per hour. (See KBCO in Colorado)
Now that's what I'm talkin' bout...two thumbs up....C.A. is the only niche??? format not tried on big market signals, with all the drek on the air in these metros, someone should try it, instead of listening to armchair PD's and so called in the know consultants rebuking it. Nothing to loose, give it a year to get traction, if it flops, just change formats, happens all the time.
A year of revenue in a big market could be $5 million. Would you do it if it was coming out of your pocket?
This is a 1 share station in Salt Lake City. The demos aren't comparable to many big markets.
Even more in the top 2 markets, where a station that might be considered vulnerable is likely billing upwards of $10 million a year.
What the "give it a try" enthusiasts don't get is that a changed format in a transactional market can cost upwards of a year's billing even when the new format "works."
And stations don't just "give it a try" as they are able to do quite accurate format appeal research prior to picking a new format and project the risks and benefits beforehand.
They also have three country stations! And all three do well.
If you're going to use this market as an example, please show a station that does better than a 1 share.
The Mormon Tabernacle Choir gets more than a 1 share in SLC.
Everybody thinks their personal playlist could be a radio format, when it's simply a personal playlist. Those things are not interchangeable.
I think you misunderstood me.
I do like 103.1 on a personal level. However, SLC is a poor example of a place with a “successful” classic alt format. The market is vastly over-radioed (with the Wyoming rimshots like 103.1 getting 95% of their listeners from their boosters in Salt Lake.). In addition, because of this over-saturated market, and because of the demographics of that area, there have been 3-4 rock stations in the market at any given point over the last 20 years. There are 3-4 country stations, and last time I checked, 3 pop stations. For a market outside the top 20, that means a lot of people going after the same portions of the pie. Means lower ratings and lower revenue for everyone.
A better example of a “successful” classic alternative station would have been WNNX in Atlanta circa 2003-04 during their try at a reboot of their early 90’s version of 99X. They managed to keep ratings in the 2s...considering it’s a niche format, that’s pretty darned decent. In addition, WTKS in Orlando managed “Real Music Weekends” for a long while while resting on the laurels of their popular daytime talk hosts.
Since we're having this conversation on the Philadelphia board, let's consider Philadelphia. It has a very successful alternative station, it has a successful active rock station, and a successful classic rock station. So would there be room for "classic alternative" in Philadelphia? Perhaps using your definition, Philadelphia is also "overradioed." I know most of the artists in the OP received limited airplay in Philly when they were currents. The punk movement wasn't as big in Philly as it was in NYC, and even there, the music received limited airplay on the city's rock station. New Wave, with Graham Parker and Elvis Costello, received more airplay in both places. Could adding new wave to the mix provide some format definition to WBEN?
Portland's KNRK appears to be some semblance of what we're speaking about. It used to be an "in your face", straight up Alternative, that ran into major hurdles, because of legal issues that became public, and now has a delivery more like that of AAA and is not particularly current, as far as I can tell, not being a regular listener, in any way. All I know is that when I walk into a building where it's playing, I rarely recognize anything, whereas I did before the change. There is an IHeart Alternative translator that sounds nothing like that and I recognize at least half of the songs, when listening for a few minutes. Whatever they're doing, the ratings have held up for quite a few years now.
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