Does anyone think that a locally targeted all-streaming station would fly? The idea being that it would be treated just like a broadcast station with 24 hour programming, live talent (okay so that's like a broadcast station 15 years ago, but go with me on this), advertising and promotions, etc. Is there enough people out there willing to sit in front of their computer long enough to make it work? Can it fly without the all important "drive time"?
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Would a local streaming station work?
- Thread starter MisterRadio
- Start date
Define "work"... as in 'Will it work?'
Do you have the coins in your pocket to pay all the bills for the first 7 to 10 years? It would probably take that long before advertisers could be convinced to climb on board.
Do you have the coins in your pocket to pay all the bills for the first 7 to 10 years? It would probably take that long before advertisers could be convinced to climb on board.
D
DominiqueRadio
Guest
Great topic of discussion. Almost anything can work with the right promotion.
Besides, I strongly believe internet stations are the way of the future. They are not localized by range. Sure local radio will still be relevent but once wifi is standard in all vehicles, the game my friends is going to change yet again. My opinion. =)
Besides, I strongly believe internet stations are the way of the future. They are not localized by range. Sure local radio will still be relevent but once wifi is standard in all vehicles, the game my friends is going to change yet again. My opinion. =)
The conversation is off to a great start. The thread begain with what I interpreted as THIS question: "Will a LOCAL internet station work if...." and some attributes of thje LOCAL internet station were listed and they were heavy duty when it comes to cost of doing business. Live and Local ain't cheap. My responsonse was couched in the unspoken observation: Selling advertising is never an easy task. It takes skill. It takes hard work. An expensive salesperson or person(s) would be necessary. So that is when I suggested a number of years would be needed to make this thing self-supporting.
Then the second reply came in proclaiming the marvelous feature that Internet radio IS NOT limited to local. Isn't it wonderful? We can reach out to the whole world.
There is the challenge: THE WOLE WORLD can also reach into your market with their Internet programming. They are all going to nibble on the same handful of cookies you think are your very own. But here comes the business challenge: Anybody smart enough to be running a local business today or being ad buyer of advertising for a local business will realize that YOUR audience is being cannibalized by all these programmers streaming in not only from all the other states of our nation, but from all the countries of the world. And so your sales person reminds the prospective ad buying that WE have wide coverage and we have listeners AROUND THE WORLD that will hear YOUR advertising. And the ad buying says: "Look... a person listening in France is not going to run in here and buy a bicycle from my shop in Texas because I advertised on the Internet. The listener in Idaho is not going to come bopping into my bakery here in Austin and buy a dozen bagels because I advertise on Internet radio.
Internet radio is a technology marvel. It is a candy-store full of delights for the ears of listeners. But as a business model it could be a road full of potholes. Tell me how you would garner revenue from advertisers on Internet radio. Shoot. I might start one myself.... if your logic is persuasive.
Then the second reply came in proclaiming the marvelous feature that Internet radio IS NOT limited to local. Isn't it wonderful? We can reach out to the whole world.
There is the challenge: THE WOLE WORLD can also reach into your market with their Internet programming. They are all going to nibble on the same handful of cookies you think are your very own. But here comes the business challenge: Anybody smart enough to be running a local business today or being ad buyer of advertising for a local business will realize that YOUR audience is being cannibalized by all these programmers streaming in not only from all the other states of our nation, but from all the countries of the world. And so your sales person reminds the prospective ad buying that WE have wide coverage and we have listeners AROUND THE WORLD that will hear YOUR advertising. And the ad buying says: "Look... a person listening in France is not going to run in here and buy a bicycle from my shop in Texas because I advertised on the Internet. The listener in Idaho is not going to come bopping into my bakery here in Austin and buy a dozen bagels because I advertise on Internet radio.
Internet radio is a technology marvel. It is a candy-store full of delights for the ears of listeners. But as a business model it could be a road full of potholes. Tell me how you would garner revenue from advertisers on Internet radio. Shoot. I might start one myself.... if your logic is persuasive.
probably ,if the station had a toll free number for the us and international phone numbers for other countries to request songs. and email address. advertising is going to be tricky. one post said about someone in idaho will not be comming down to texas or some other state to do business, yes this will be true. local advertising no. it would have to be a national advertiser. food, alcohol, automobiles. and they may or may not want to advertise. i don't know.
thanks captex
thanks captex
I think it could work if you identify a niche.
Find a community of interest, join them, serve them.
Mass communicating to a local or regional audience isn't enough, if they have thousands of similar choices, but if you're the only one in your field, you're going to dominate it.
Find a community of interest, join them, serve them.
Mass communicating to a local or regional audience isn't enough, if they have thousands of similar choices, but if you're the only one in your field, you're going to dominate it.
M
Maize Brothers
Guest
So has anyone heard that "Austinstalkin.com" internet only talk station that Border was launching?
I've seend some internet-based dance stations that focus on non mainstream audiences do...ok. They're run out of people's homes. Good luck selling it tho, unless its subscription based.
I've seend some internet-based dance stations that focus on non mainstream audiences do...ok. They're run out of people's homes. Good luck selling it tho, unless its subscription based.
D
DominiqueRadio
Guest
captex said:one post said about someone in idaho will not be comming down to texas or some other state to do business, yes this will be true. local advertising no. it would have to be a national advertiser. food, alcohol, automobiles. and they may or may not want to advertise. i don't know.
thanks captex
Maybe today.... but when internet radio is standard in all vehicles it is going to change everything. One day, companies will do this.
Internet radio spectrum is not free. Some Internet broadcasters have become so popular they discovered they couldn't pay for the bandwidth to reach their fans. So a streaming station "working" means it must pay for itself and pay the people involved in it... unless you're all volunteers and counting on subscriptions and donations to keep "working."
I think a local internet radio station will work. I think you can target a local audience, market to that audience and get local advertisers. Why would this be any different than a local radio station streaming?
National advertisers are not the way to go. You need local online mom and pop advertisers, especially restaurants and bars, to make things fly as a big chunck of local listening is your at work group that likely goes out for lunch or meets for a few drinks after work.
The is a huge hole here if you distinguish yourself. If you're thinking traditional radio in formatics, you will likely just be one of the bunch, but if your advertising concepts and interaction between listeners is 'out-of-the-box', you can blaze new frontiers and set standards. After all, the people we radio people tend to admire most and the stations that we elevated to legendary status did just that.
A couple of Low Power FMs have done this as they found their city was larger than their signal. One station even uses video streaming to add some spice to things.
My suggestion is find some cheap awareness building options to promote, some creative advertising ideas that go beyond the commercial and a programming choice that will make at work computer listeners want to bond with the big wide world out there and go for it. I have a few ideas I could share as I have been giving this some thought.
In short, a local 'internet only' station is wide open as far as what you can do. Internet stations seem to have not evolved beyond the ipod concept, so the playing field is wide open and the standard has yet to be set. Even the advertising concepts are new ground, so going after the little guy and making believers out of them iis the logical choice since the advertising agency driven buys take so much documentation and need so much assurance they can wow their customers with their expertise, I suspect national advertisers will be the last to 'try' a buy. The mom and pop is looking for ways to soldify their customer base and expand so they are more apt to get on board.
While internet only radio will play a more important role as time moves forward, now is a good time to start. From a business perspective, do you want to be miles beyond your competition when that day comes or trying to play catch-up. Ebay comes to mind here. Many have tried to do what eBay has done but they are lucky to gain 1 or 2 percent of the share because eBay is the heritage site that forged the road through the internet wilderness and is miles ahead of the nearest competitor. eBay was the one that saw what was coming, thought outside the box and created the standard their competitors try to duplicate.
National advertisers are not the way to go. You need local online mom and pop advertisers, especially restaurants and bars, to make things fly as a big chunck of local listening is your at work group that likely goes out for lunch or meets for a few drinks after work.
The is a huge hole here if you distinguish yourself. If you're thinking traditional radio in formatics, you will likely just be one of the bunch, but if your advertising concepts and interaction between listeners is 'out-of-the-box', you can blaze new frontiers and set standards. After all, the people we radio people tend to admire most and the stations that we elevated to legendary status did just that.
A couple of Low Power FMs have done this as they found their city was larger than their signal. One station even uses video streaming to add some spice to things.
My suggestion is find some cheap awareness building options to promote, some creative advertising ideas that go beyond the commercial and a programming choice that will make at work computer listeners want to bond with the big wide world out there and go for it. I have a few ideas I could share as I have been giving this some thought.
In short, a local 'internet only' station is wide open as far as what you can do. Internet stations seem to have not evolved beyond the ipod concept, so the playing field is wide open and the standard has yet to be set. Even the advertising concepts are new ground, so going after the little guy and making believers out of them iis the logical choice since the advertising agency driven buys take so much documentation and need so much assurance they can wow their customers with their expertise, I suspect national advertisers will be the last to 'try' a buy. The mom and pop is looking for ways to soldify their customer base and expand so they are more apt to get on board.
While internet only radio will play a more important role as time moves forward, now is a good time to start. From a business perspective, do you want to be miles beyond your competition when that day comes or trying to play catch-up. Ebay comes to mind here. Many have tried to do what eBay has done but they are lucky to gain 1 or 2 percent of the share because eBay is the heritage site that forged the road through the internet wilderness and is miles ahead of the nearest competitor. eBay was the one that saw what was coming, thought outside the box and created the standard their competitors try to duplicate.
D
DominiqueRadio
Guest
bturner said:I think a local internet radio station will work. I think you can target a local audience, market to that audience and get local advertisers. Why would this be any different than a local radio station streaming?
National advertisers are not the way to go. You need local online mom and pop advertisers, especially restaurants and bars, to make things fly as a big chunck of local listening is your at work group that likely goes out for lunch or meets for a few drinks after work.
The is a huge hole here if you distinguish yourself. If you're thinking traditional radio in formatics, you will likely just be one of the bunch, but if your advertising concepts and interaction between listeners is 'out-of-the-box', you can blaze new frontiers and set standards. After all, the people we radio people tend to admire most and the stations that we elevated to legendary status did just that.
A couple of Low Power FMs have done this as they found their city was larger than their signal. One station even uses video streaming to add some spice to things.
My suggestion is find some cheap awareness building options to promote, some creative advertising ideas that go beyond the commercial and a programming choice that will make at work computer listeners want to bond with the big wide world out there and go for it. I have a few ideas I could share as I have been giving this some thought.
In short, a local 'internet only' station is wide open as far as what you can do. Internet stations seem to have not evolved beyond the ipod concept, so the playing field is wide open and the standard has yet to be set. Even the advertising concepts are new ground, so going after the little guy and making believers out of them iis the logical choice since the advertising agency driven buys take so much documentation and need so much assurance they can wow their customers with their expertise, I suspect national advertisers will be the last to 'try' a buy. The mom and pop is looking for ways to soldify their customer base and expand so they are more apt to get on board.
While internet only radio will play a more important role as time moves forward, now is a good time to start. From a business perspective, do you want to be miles beyond your competition when that day comes or trying to play catch-up. Ebay comes to mind here. Many have tried to do what eBay has done but they are lucky to gain 1 or 2 percent of the share because eBay is the heritage site that forged the road through the internet wilderness and is miles ahead of the nearest competitor. eBay was the one that saw what was coming, thought outside the box and created the standard their competitors try to duplicate.
**Applauds**
Customers through the door is the result of advertising. You have to get some clients to roll the dice with you in the beginning. If you get them customers through the door, you have a successful plan. If not you keep working at it to make it work.
Having been in radio advertisng sales since 1987, I have to add one thing: advertisers don't know how to gauge results. They just know when they advertise, sales are better than when they do not advertise. They can typically not put their finger on any specific result. To drive my point home, how many of you actually tell the clerk or manager at a store the radio commercial or other media is why you came through the door?
Internet radio might very well have an advantage by having a tangible presence (online address) and the ability to utilize couponing and email contact to demonstrate results.
On advertising results, I had a boat rental place that had just opened do some advertising with me (radio ads). He also ran an ad in a fishing magazine. He asked customers where they heard about him: Most customers said Newspaper followed by Yellow Pages. He never ran an ad in the newspaper and it would be several months before the new edition of the Yellow Pages would have him listed. I'd say he likely got more out of the Fishing Magazine and the radio might have influenced some decisions for those folks already at the lake.
My point: even the consumer didn't know where they heard about the advertiser.
Having been in radio advertisng sales since 1987, I have to add one thing: advertisers don't know how to gauge results. They just know when they advertise, sales are better than when they do not advertise. They can typically not put their finger on any specific result. To drive my point home, how many of you actually tell the clerk or manager at a store the radio commercial or other media is why you came through the door?
Internet radio might very well have an advantage by having a tangible presence (online address) and the ability to utilize couponing and email contact to demonstrate results.
On advertising results, I had a boat rental place that had just opened do some advertising with me (radio ads). He also ran an ad in a fishing magazine. He asked customers where they heard about him: Most customers said Newspaper followed by Yellow Pages. He never ran an ad in the newspaper and it would be several months before the new edition of the Yellow Pages would have him listed. I'd say he likely got more out of the Fishing Magazine and the radio might have influenced some decisions for those folks already at the lake.
My point: even the consumer didn't know where they heard about the advertiser.
I worked for Jerrell Shepherd in Moberly, MO during the era when he made the decision to "turn on the afterburners" on his little CLASS IV 1,000 AM station. (Circa 1962-1963.) I was not there for the "Glory Years" when the place achieved financial orbit. But this is the "secret" that Jerrell learned from somewhere around 1946 to 1963: "Price and Item" ad copy. As a sales rep you were instructed to never, never ever sell a schedule and bring in "institutional" copy. If you came in with copy like: "Jim Smith Motors is the place where you get friendly service and good prices." he would send you back to get some acceptable copy. I thought I would back him into the corner one day. I asked him what kind of copy would be acceptable for a funeral home. (Gotcha' right? Price and item for an undertaker?) What I didn't know at the time was one of his dreams was to buy a funeral home... which eventually did. He already had a sales company selling "Pre-need funeral service". The old traditional 'burial insrance' was illegal in Missouri.
He explained to me that maybe prices wouldn't be included, but he reeled off a list of individual 'items' that a funeral home could sell.
Body shop, beauty shop, grocer or funeral home, Jerrell had learned that when people walked in the door asking for the $4 dollar paint brushes or the $8 dollar shampoo or the green meat for 10 cents a pound the store owner knew what was working: the radio!
(Green Meat: Only those of us who ever walked into the production studio with Fran Mooney to record a grocery commercial understand that little gem. ;D )
If you get a degree from college today in Communications or Broadcasting, if you have on the job training from the advertising industry, everybody know that all kinds of tests have supposedly been run that indicate institutional or "administrative advertising" as one of my later mentors called it, is more effect than is the typical price-and-item advertising. And if you are chain group, a big box group and you have all kinds of research people to check it out, that may be true. But if you are a one station operation dealing with a lone-location mom-and-pop business, there is no research department to prove or disprove that old ad business argument.
The origin of this thread was whether a "LOCAL streaming station" will work. "Local Streaming" today may be about where radio was in 1963. A lot of entrepreneurial cowboys are going to reach out to a lot small entrepreneurial store fronts in search of revenue. Until streaming grows and becomes more sophisticated, some of the old street-smart sales and copy techniques from 40 years ago may need to be dusted off and tried all over again.
He explained to me that maybe prices wouldn't be included, but he reeled off a list of individual 'items' that a funeral home could sell.
Body shop, beauty shop, grocer or funeral home, Jerrell had learned that when people walked in the door asking for the $4 dollar paint brushes or the $8 dollar shampoo or the green meat for 10 cents a pound the store owner knew what was working: the radio!
(Green Meat: Only those of us who ever walked into the production studio with Fran Mooney to record a grocery commercial understand that little gem. ;D )
If you get a degree from college today in Communications or Broadcasting, if you have on the job training from the advertising industry, everybody know that all kinds of tests have supposedly been run that indicate institutional or "administrative advertising" as one of my later mentors called it, is more effect than is the typical price-and-item advertising. And if you are chain group, a big box group and you have all kinds of research people to check it out, that may be true. But if you are a one station operation dealing with a lone-location mom-and-pop business, there is no research department to prove or disprove that old ad business argument.
The origin of this thread was whether a "LOCAL streaming station" will work. "Local Streaming" today may be about where radio was in 1963. A lot of entrepreneurial cowboys are going to reach out to a lot small entrepreneurial store fronts in search of revenue. Until streaming grows and becomes more sophisticated, some of the old street-smart sales and copy techniques from 40 years ago may need to be dusted off and tried all over again.
Another thought that fits into this thread. The original post was about "local streaming". Many of you have chimed in to explain your LISTENING habits on streaming. Others who are currently streaming are all excited about the audience you have developed that may be world wide.
In reading this a similar threads, I get the idea a lot of people think by starting off small with a stream that gathers maybe 100 or 200 or 300 listeners around the world, you are getting in on the ground floor. After all, look at the fortunes that some people who started with one station acquired by becoming the owner of 20, 50 or 400 radio stations. Think about the people who started a cable system in their home town 50 years ago and look what they eventually sold it for. I am going to run my little streaming enterprise and someday I will be able to sell it to someone building an empire and make big bucks.
PERSONAL OPINION: This is not fact. I can't prove this. But it looks to me like when the days come that fortunes can be made by streaming to thousands and millions of listeners nationwide or worldwide, nobody needs your little start up to get there. Google or Microsoft or Chrysler or some guy fresh out of MBA school with some venture capital backers can begin their own streaming site from scratch easier than they can buy yours and a bunch more like years.
If you want to be in the streaming business long term, do the one thing the big-boys and venture capital start-ups won't do, can't do: program to your local market. If General Electing decides tomorrw to conquer the streaming market, they are NOT going to set up a little operation here to cover Ozark, AR... another little operation here to cover Enterprise, AL... and another little operation here to cover Marengo, IL. The thing they might do that would be a problem for you is to set up a franchise set-up where they deliver syndicated music and programming to a local franchisee that wants to compete with you.
Streaming may be one business where you want to "think small".
In reading this a similar threads, I get the idea a lot of people think by starting off small with a stream that gathers maybe 100 or 200 or 300 listeners around the world, you are getting in on the ground floor. After all, look at the fortunes that some people who started with one station acquired by becoming the owner of 20, 50 or 400 radio stations. Think about the people who started a cable system in their home town 50 years ago and look what they eventually sold it for. I am going to run my little streaming enterprise and someday I will be able to sell it to someone building an empire and make big bucks.
PERSONAL OPINION: This is not fact. I can't prove this. But it looks to me like when the days come that fortunes can be made by streaming to thousands and millions of listeners nationwide or worldwide, nobody needs your little start up to get there. Google or Microsoft or Chrysler or some guy fresh out of MBA school with some venture capital backers can begin their own streaming site from scratch easier than they can buy yours and a bunch more like years.
If you want to be in the streaming business long term, do the one thing the big-boys and venture capital start-ups won't do, can't do: program to your local market. If General Electing decides tomorrw to conquer the streaming market, they are NOT going to set up a little operation here to cover Ozark, AR... another little operation here to cover Enterprise, AL... and another little operation here to cover Marengo, IL. The thing they might do that would be a problem for you is to set up a franchise set-up where they deliver syndicated music and programming to a local franchisee that wants to compete with you.
Streaming may be one business where you want to "think small".
1
1st of 5
Guest
I assume that "local streaming" refers to the San Antonio/Austin area. If this concept hasn't been attempted in a big city with lots of people with spare $$$ to throw around, how would it have a chance here? It sounds like a nice idea, but if it ever became reality, it would only last until the operator's funds ran out. I don't know about anyone else, but for the 40+ years of listening to local radio, my spending habits or purchasing decisions were never ever inspired, assisted, guided or influenced by any advertising on radio or TV. I know that it supports the stations that entertain me, but ads are of absolutely no use to me, only an irritating annoyance. Good luck, anyway.
A few are not affected by advertsing or are not aware that they are. I would say most people are affected by advertising and most don't know it.
Almost anything can work if you think it through and have numerous backup plans. It is simply a numbers game and persistance.
Good selling is targeting the best potential customers, getting to know them and your business and giving them enough time to learn they can trust you.
Naturally, you have to go to the places where you can get a yes fastest. Some say to work the big boys buy getting on the buy sheet takes lots of work and time and it can be months before the first buy. In the time you spent on one big account, you might sell ten small accounts and have them on for several months.
I think internet radio offers a nice package with info on the advertiser and coupons if the client wants. We need to rethink advertising as well. With the support of webpage and maybe coupons, a teaser might work.
And back to my opening sentences: Radio's biggest problem has always been that commercials were never seen as part of the format. If commercials were as carefully written and produced for the format as programming put into music flow and research, then commercials might be welcome by more people.
Almost anything can work if you think it through and have numerous backup plans. It is simply a numbers game and persistance.
Good selling is targeting the best potential customers, getting to know them and your business and giving them enough time to learn they can trust you.
Naturally, you have to go to the places where you can get a yes fastest. Some say to work the big boys buy getting on the buy sheet takes lots of work and time and it can be months before the first buy. In the time you spent on one big account, you might sell ten small accounts and have them on for several months.
I think internet radio offers a nice package with info on the advertiser and coupons if the client wants. We need to rethink advertising as well. With the support of webpage and maybe coupons, a teaser might work.
And back to my opening sentences: Radio's biggest problem has always been that commercials were never seen as part of the format. If commercials were as carefully written and produced for the format as programming put into music flow and research, then commercials might be welcome by more people.
Here's a story regarding my Internet station, which is local to North Florida and South Georgia:
http://radioworld.com/article/big-d-country-localized-internet-radio/23582
http://radioworld.com/article/big-d-country-localized-internet-radio/23582
Radiosanantonio.com is the 18-millionth most popular site in the world according to Alexa.
http://www.alexa.com
You plug in the site address and it will give you a global rank... and regional data if it is popular enough.
http://www.alexa.com
You plug in the site address and it will give you a global rank... and regional data if it is popular enough.
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