Would a MBS-TV(Mutual) have fared better than DuMont?

[dustintv]

Just wondering, if Mutual had gotten into the TV biz would they have fared better than DuMont because of their history and financial backing with radio or would the lack of VHF affiliates killed it just like what happened to DuMont?

 

[Tim L]

Just wondering, if Mutual had gotten into the TV biz would they have fared better than DuMont because of their history and financial backing with radio or would the lack of VHF affiliates killed it just like what happened to DuMont?

Mutual was less a "network" than a loose partnership of stations..especially in the 1930's and 40's . Also, unlike NBC and CBS, they did not own radio stations in the big markets where they could use radio talent for local programming they would have needed to stay on the air outside of "network" time..They would have run into the same problem as DuMont and early ABC as far as finding affiliates except in the biggest cities..They would have had less of a chance to make it than DuMont even, in my opinion..

 

[cdsull502]

Mutual did not own any radio stations---NBC, CBS, and ABC were able to offset huge losses in early TV by using the profits from radio which was still the dominent media until about 1952. Dumont had a similar problem -- not enough income from other sources to pay off the big (for the time) start up costs of TV.

 

[wbhist]

In fact, it was certain key radio stations (WXYZ in Detroit, WOR in New York etc.) that owned Mutual - hence the "loose partnership of stations."

 

[Ultimajock]

Mutual did not own any radio stations

...erm, not quite the case. In its later years, Mutual did buy some stations -- WNEW New York and WCFL Chicago come most immediately to mind -- but in the '40s and '50s, they didn't own any. I've always thought it would have made sense to have DuMont and Mutual form some sort of cooperative arrangement for cross-promotion and use of personalities, but that never happened...

 

[gr8oldies]

Did Amway but Mutual before or after the purchase of WCFL? "Here's one radio station. Here are four of your friends, who sponsor four of their friends and soon you are a millionaire!".

 

[Limp73]

Amway bought Mutual roughly around 1978-79...the same year they leased time on Westar to launch sattellite operations and eventually do away with that low quality land line. Only least connection to television is that Mutual first premiered Meet The Press on radio before NBC grabbed it and moved it to television. It's also been debated for decades that The Lone Ranger first premiered on Mutual before moving to ABC Radio Network and finally on television. ...and yes I worked for a couple of small town Mutual affiliates and I sometimes read "The Mutual Letter" geared to station managers and PDs.

Found something on YouTube that mentions Mutual being a co-producer(with Telemount..a predicessor to Paramount Television) in the closing credits of "Cowboy G Men."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7j3pwJ-4I4

Seems to me that Mutual didn't have the bucks to venture into television as a lot of their early programs jumped to different networks...it also went through several different ownerships and partnerships. The Don Lee Network (which also owned KHJ-TV for a time and was later absorbed by Mutual)was one,later General Tire and Rubber,Hal Roach Jr. (who ran it though its 1950s bankruptcy,) Armand Hammer (no pun intended due to the baking soda brand name rhyme) and then there was the Alexander Guterma scandal which almost ruined the network's credibility. (see Wikipedia article)

Mutual stayed afloat afterwards thanks to the growing number of newer small town/small market stations in the 50s and 60s who couldn't afford an NBC,CBS or ABC affiliation....which made it boast itself as "the world's largest radio network" since nearly all of its affilliates were small town/small market stations. Amway put a lot of money into Mutual to make it sound more appealing to younger people who otherwise listened to ABC Contemporary-affiliated stations. The 1970s news intro and promo jingles indicated that since they (I think) were produced by PAMS which in turn offered custom jingle supplement packages for affiliated stations using the Mutual jingle...If it wasn't for Larry King, Mutual would have went down sooner than it actually did...since Amway made very little (if any) profit from Mutual.

 

[JeeperOne]

Just wondering, if Mutual had gotten into the TV biz would they have fared better than DuMont because of their history and financial backing with radio or would the lack of VHF affiliates killed it just like what happened to DuMont?

Mutual was less a "network" than a loose partnership of stations..especially in the 1930's and 40's . Also, unlike NBC and CBS, they did not own radio stations in the big markets where they could use radio talent for local programming they would have needed to stay on the air outside of "network" time..They would have run into the same problem as DuMont and early ABC as far as finding affiliates except in the biggest cities..They would have had less of a chance to make it than DuMont even, in my opinion..

And EVEN THEN, ABC didn't have much to draw on because VERY FEW (If any!) of its radio shows had any measurable amount of success.

It was because of this that many believed it came down to whoever between the two TV networks (DuMont or ABC) won Disney's $$$ would survive. Well, we all know who won that battle.

Just my $.02 worth.....

Cheers

 

[gr8oldies]

Mutual almost lured Paul Harvey away from ABC under the Amway ownership (Amway had been a Harvey sponsor for years). I remember Mutual being on almost every small town station; eventually apparently UPI Audio was even cheaper (plus no inventory to give up). Mutual had it's own demographic networks, Mutual Progressive (I guess the answer to ABC Contemporary) and Mutual Black.

 

[Ultimajock]

Did Amway but Mutual before or after the purchase of WCFL? "Here's one radio station. Here are four of your friends, who sponsor four of their friends and soon you are a millionaire!".

...Amway bought Mutual after the Chicago Federation of Labor put WCFL on the sales block, but not by many months. How bizarre is it that one of the most virulently anti-union companies in the world is sold a major radio station by a federation of unions? ;-) ...

...oh, and to bring the discussion back on topic, the Chicago Federation of Labor also sold the CP for Channel 38, WCFL-TV, to a consortium of televangelists. They even did test transmissions in early 1976 showing a WCFL-TV slide before the call sign was changed to WCFC-TV...

 

[Ultimajock]

Mutual almost lured Paul Harvey away from ABC under the Amway ownership (Amway had been a Harvey sponsor for years).

...and here's Paul doing an Amway schpiel in his own inimitable style -- http://www.wfmu.org/365/2003/178.shtml ...

 

[dhett]

Dumont failed due to 1) lack of VHF affiliates; 2) FCC's ruling that two Paramount-owned stations would count against Dumont's 5-O&O limit, even though the stations did not air Dumont programming, and 3) they didn't have the radio network from which to draw talent and operating capital. In spite of #3, Dumont did quite well developing their own talent pool, only to lose them to NBC and CBS eventually. But the biggest killer was being forced to cobble together a mostly UHF network of stations at a time when television sets were not required to have UHF tuners, and UHF converters were quite expensive.

A Mutual network would have run into the same problem, and as with Dumont, it probably would have doomed the network as well.

 

[kirkiefan]

Mutual almost lured Paul Harvey away from ABC under the Amway ownership (Amway had been a Harvey sponsor for years). I remember Mutual being on almost every small town station; eventually apparently UPI Audio was even cheaper (plus no inventory to give up). Mutual had it's own demographic networks, Mutual Progressive (I guess the answer to ABC Contemporary) and Mutual Black.

That pretty much sums it up. Mutual wanted to get a share of the younger folks. There was also a short-lived Mutual spanish language network in 1972 which aired at 25 past the hour,but by 1973 it was gone. Mutual Black was bought up by Sheridan Broadcasting in the early 1980s but still used the ten minutes before the hour space leased to then by Mutual until Sheridan had its own sattellite feed up and running.

The Dick Clark National Music Survey aired from 1981 until the time Clark and some partners bough out the RKO Radio Networks and re-named it United Stations Radio Network,then Mutual replaced Dick with a new host....the National Music Survey went down quick afterwards.

 

[desertv]

Did Amway but Mutual before or after the purchase of WCFL? "Here's one radio station. Here are four of your friends, who sponsor four of their friends and soon you are a millionaire!".

Mutual was owned by 3M in the 60s...their logo used the same font as the 3M logo

 

[bpatrick]

Mutual had a flagship station picked out: WOR (now WWOR),
but its loose organizational structure, combined with the lack
of money to enter television, caused Mutual to change its mind.
It would have had a roster of programs and personalties (go back
and look at any network radio schedule from the '40s), which DuMont
certainly did not have. But as several of you have pointed out, there
weren't enough VHF stations to go around, and sets were not required
to have UHF tuners. Even ABC faced that problem, and had it not been
for the infusion of cash from United Paramount Theaters that roughly
parallels Leonard Goldenson's (who had been a UPT exec) assuming control
of the network, it is possible (emphasis on possible) that DuMont might have
grabbed off some of the stations that eventually went with ABC.

I actually think Mutual might have had a better chance than DuMont,
although not much better. (BTW, at least one former DuMont exec has said
that the beginning of the end of that network (aside from the problem of
station ownership with Paramount Pictures) was the loss of Jackie Gleason
to CBS.) What I'm afraid of in the case of Mutual is that, aside from its Sunday-
afternoon mystery shows, its schedule would have been loaded with game shows,
news commentators, and bargain-basement sitcoms...which would have had little
appeal to CBS and NBC affiliates.