Would no NPR = successful commercial liberal talk radio?

[johnbasalla]

If NPR didn't exist, how would that ... or would it at all ... have changed the landscape for liberal talk radio on commercial stations?

 

[JimmyJames]

Considering the NPR audience splits pretty evenly between conservative, liberal, and independent, it's doubtful. NPR isn't a "liberal" station.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

John: Your question is a little bit like asking: If my older brother had never been born, how would my life have been different?

If Walmart didn't exist, could I start a retail store that ONLY sells mops and brooms. (You know... a specialty store like DAN'S FANS or BATTERIES PLUS, etc) I can hear someone crying the blues: I could have made a good living selling brooms and mops if Walmart had not happened.

I regular hear people say: The conservatives have commercial radio. The liberals have NPR. Anyone who says that has a warped, myopic understanding of who the liberals are. I take the position that conservatives assume anyone who disagrees with them is by definition a liberal. Real, ugly-to-the-bone liberals feel the same way. If you don't agree with them, you are a conservative.

Most people have never met a "Real, ugly-to-the-bone liberal", have never sat down to try to have a logical conversation with them, never tried to engage them in some informal debate.

In answer to your question I offer TWO versions:

• 1. True hard-core liberalism will NEVER be a commercial success on radio, and will never DOMINATE NPR.
  
  
• 2. Even the more modest... call them "main stream liberals" if you like... may never make up a truly winning audience in the same way conservatives do. (yes, I am aware there are some SUCCESSFUL stations carrying programming that leans to the left. In today's implementation of those terms, conservatives require regimentation and unanimous support and voting on issues. Liberals are more like cats. (Ever heard the term: Like trying to herd cats? ) Conservatives appear to make a viable radio audience because they like to have their loyal obedience to the party line affirmed. Liberals appear to fail the viability test because they are not as interested in affirmation of their adherence to doctrinal purity.
  
  

(This same dynamic plays itself out in the affairs of religious organizations, denominations and churches who get into struggles over conservative versus liberal. You can make money publishing books for the conservatives of a religious group, but go broke trying to sell books to liberals of the same religious group.)

For the sake of discussion, let me take the position that the NPR audience is primarily a liberal group. I will still argue that the primary audience for a COMMERCIAL liberal station would be a whole different clan and there would not be a head-on competition between NPR and Commercial for audience.

 

[johnbasalla]

"Real, ugly-to-the-bone liberals feel the same way. If you don't agree with them, you are a conservative."

Actually, you'd be called an -ist, -phobe or blamed for an -ism.

 

[TheBigA]

To be specific, NPR has ONE talk show. It's called "Talk of the Nation," and it's only 2 hours a day. But it's done like talk shows during the Fairness Doctrine days, where they book guests, and speak with the guests about issues of the day. It's not the host giving his opinion about things. So to be truthful, this show doesn't take the place of a liberal talk show. Because that's not its format. Regardless of what you think about NPR.

 

[radiobum]

I think liberal talk would do better if there was no NPR because what else would liberals listen to if they want to hear talk ? BUT a lot of liberals don't like confrontational radio and LOVE the pace (zzzzz...to a lot of us radio people) of NPR

 

[TheBigA]

I think liberal talk would do better if there was no NPR because what else would liberals listen to if they want to hear talk ?

Some might say they'd listen to the rest of American media, starting with 60 Minutes, The View, and MSNBC. In fact, to hear most conservative talkers, the media is in love with liberalism. But if they go to NPR, as I said in my previous post, they won't hear liberal talk because the network doesn't have any liberal talk show hosts. They may hear liberal opinions as expressed by guests, but they'll usually be placed side-by-side with opposing points of view. Call that liberal, but where I come from, that's fairness.

 

[amfmxm]

Let's get a few things out of the way. Yeah, I'm liberal. Also Catholic, Irish, Caucasian... uh, what else? Married, average height/weight. How else do we define people? Oh, yeah--I've been in radio in just about every capacity (jock, PD, sales, sales management, news, engineering, owner, GM/MM) in commercial & public radio (and TV) over the past 45 years. Still doing it. So you can slam my perspective on any number of grounds ("Oh, he's an old 5-9 white guy--it's no wonder")!

But I look at it completely as a commercial radio guy. The rightwing has helped identify the segmentation: conservatives and liberals. And voting records have helped us identify the logical markets. But for a variety of reasons, liberal talk has yet to surface on fully-competitive sticks with fully-competitive programming and fully-competitive marketing. Over the past half-dozen years numerous threads on this site have debated the particulars, so there's probably no compelling reason to rehash. But--from a purely commercial radio programming/sales/marketing perspective... it's just a matter of time.

 

[amfmxm]

(Part Deux)

"True hard-core liberalism will NEVER be a commercial success on radio."

GRC, you know better than that. For many decades now, radio has been segmenting itself into smaller and smaller slices. And if what you consider "hard-core liberals" constitute no more than say, 10 or 15 percent of the population, that's plenty for a successful radio format.

We're talking about people who like public schools, public parks, public highways, continuation of the two insurance programs for retirees (SS & Medicare) that we've all been paying premiums into via payroll deductions since we began working--those folks.

We can disagree on these policy matters--that's okay. But you don't need a majority of listeners to make a viable format. Just 10 or 15 percent.

 

[TheBigA]

But you don't need a majority of listeners to make a viable format. Just 10 or 15 percent.

You don't just need 10-15%, but they have to be passionate enough to tune in every day. Not many liberals could be that committed to a radio talk show. It's not in their DNA.

 

[amfmxm]

Oh, come on. You know better than that, too.

Give it a core Class B FM signal (no rimshots) or full-market/full-time AM signal in a market like DC, NYC, Philly or Boston... Grade A talent... and ownership willing to market it at a competitive level. Lesser formats have succeeded with that formula.

But thus far that essential combination has never surfaced in the Liberal Radio world.

 

[TheBigA]

But thus far that essential combination has never surfaced in the Liberal Radio world.

The key point is "Grade A talent." Look...there are about to new talk stations in NY and Chicago. They will likely not be typical traditional conservative older male talk. So someone will have a platform to start something new. I'm not expecting it to be strictly liberal. But I'm also not expecting more of the same either.

 

[amfmxm]

In all fairness, I do not know Mr. Sabo's politics, nor Mr. Michaels' for that matter, though I probably wouldn't bet a buck on "progressive." Could be wrong.

But if were to hazard a guess, my guess would be that one or both recognize that the non-political (or apolitical) positioning of their presumed targets--newsers WCBS/WINS--is the strength allowing CBS to tap ad wallets on either side. In other words, political talk of either stripe might stray too far from the target--the pot of gold CBS is sitting on.

And, FWIW, with due respect to Randy's recent tour at the helm of WGN, liberal political talk would seem to be a dramatic departure from his historic style of preferred personalities. But maybe I'm too rooted to the old Randy of The Big One and Power Pig days...

I will gladly admit, though, that it will fun to watch... from a distance!

 

[TheBigA]

But if were to hazard a guess, my guess would be that one or both recognize that the non-political (or apolitical) positioning of their presumed targets--newsers WCBS/WINS--is the strength allowing CBS to tap ad wallets on either side. In other words, political talk of either stripe might stray too far from the target--the pot of gold CBS is sitting on.

I agree. But any talk that isn't right wing conservative will be viewed as liberal. Even if it's non-political.

 

[Signal_Faded]

Is the question better phrased like this?

"If NPR went away would any of their listeners look for progressive talk stations?"

I believe the only correct answer is 'who the heck knows!"

when I was 17-20 and more liberal than I am now I listened to NPR more. I thought it was hip and cool. There were stories from the inner city. I thought it gritty and smart. If NPR was not there I would not have looked for anything else. I would have continued wandering about aimlessly listening to Paula Abdul on WWCK in Flint Michigan.

But I am not a scientific sample.