Now that 104 has Mixed things up could an Oldies station work in Buffalo? AM or FM? Who should try it?
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Would Oldies work in Buffalo?
- Thread starter Mike Sheridan
- Start date
Yes, I definitely think so. I'm still of the belief that there HAS to be some sort of oldies station in every market. The market will define what type of programming is suitable.
IMHO, the problem with Buffalo has always been that due to the proximity to Canada and Rochester that there aren't enough frequencies to go around.
Myself, I wonder out loud if WLKK would do better as oldies or as-is..................
IMHO, the problem with Buffalo has always been that due to the proximity to Canada and Rochester that there aren't enough frequencies to go around.
Myself, I wonder out loud if WLKK would do better as oldies or as-is..................
O
OttoM
Guest
Mike Sheridan said:
Oldies can still work in the Queen City, but it still has the problem of being too top-heavy in demographics. That makes the format a harder sell to clients because study after study has shown older demos don't respond to ads like younger folks do. So if you can find an owner who can live with a lower cash flow (e.g. Legends in Rochester), you might see a return of the format.
Funny to hear about that study. When I was young the way I responded to ads on the radio was to turn to another station! ;D
Sound Thinking?
To paraphrase Bill Clinton, "It depends on what your definition of "oldies" is."
If we're talking about a focus on '55-'69, it ain't gonna happen. The core audience would be so ancient that you could never sell it.
If we're talking about the CBS-FM approach of limited '60s, and a focus on '70s and '80s, then I believe Buffalo would respond. After all, it did respond well when WHTT moved slowly toward AC by adding newer and newer music. In my estimation, they just went too far.
You have to wonder if the "Flashback Weekends" and "Flashback Lunch Hour" isn't the precursor to a shift back toward a more '70s and '80s format. I seem to be hearing more '70s and '80s, and less currents during their regular programming these days as well.
Maybe the answer is to program based on "sound", not year. Just because a '70s disco song was a hit doesn't make it fit with a more pop/rock oriented sound. Just because a John Mayer or KT Tunstall song is from the current millennium doesn't make it seem out of place when you hear it next to music from a different era that uses similar instrumentation and rhythms. Heck, there are still stalwarts of the '70s making fine music that never makes the airwaves. When was the last time you heard a James Taylor tune newer than 1980? Yet, those CDs sell by the millions.
To paraphrase Bill Clinton, "It depends on what your definition of "oldies" is."
If we're talking about a focus on '55-'69, it ain't gonna happen. The core audience would be so ancient that you could never sell it.
If we're talking about the CBS-FM approach of limited '60s, and a focus on '70s and '80s, then I believe Buffalo would respond. After all, it did respond well when WHTT moved slowly toward AC by adding newer and newer music. In my estimation, they just went too far.
You have to wonder if the "Flashback Weekends" and "Flashback Lunch Hour" isn't the precursor to a shift back toward a more '70s and '80s format. I seem to be hearing more '70s and '80s, and less currents during their regular programming these days as well.
Maybe the answer is to program based on "sound", not year. Just because a '70s disco song was a hit doesn't make it fit with a more pop/rock oriented sound. Just because a John Mayer or KT Tunstall song is from the current millennium doesn't make it seem out of place when you hear it next to music from a different era that uses similar instrumentation and rhythms. Heck, there are still stalwarts of the '70s making fine music that never makes the airwaves. When was the last time you heard a James Taylor tune newer than 1980? Yet, those CDs sell by the millions.
B
Bob1370
Guest
Following up on Sir Roxalot, Oldies 1955-69 could conceivably help an AM signal that's unable to afford or clear front-line talk programming, whether locally or nationally sourced.
On FM, a classic hits format with personality and CHR-style formatics, heavy on 1968-88 music with occasional newer stuff by core artists who began in that era (Stones, Steve Winwood, Springsteen, U2, etc.), could make it in Buffalo or for that matter any other market. Such a format DID work until it was killed recently for god-knows-what-reason on WHTT, and IS working right now in New York on WCBS-FM, so why not try it again? When you come down to it, that IS the oldies format, for all intents and purposes, for folks born between 1950 and 1975.
On FM, a classic hits format with personality and CHR-style formatics, heavy on 1968-88 music with occasional newer stuff by core artists who began in that era (Stones, Steve Winwood, Springsteen, U2, etc.), could make it in Buffalo or for that matter any other market. Such a format DID work until it was killed recently for god-knows-what-reason on WHTT, and IS working right now in New York on WCBS-FM, so why not try it again? When you come down to it, that IS the oldies format, for all intents and purposes, for folks born between 1950 and 1975.
"The core audience would be so ancient that you could never sell it."
There used to be alot of ads for will kits on the radio... ??? whatever happend to them?
Then there's room to add in ads for nursing homes (if the core audience isn't there already. lol)
The younger side may pay closer attention to ads for "retirement living".
Ads for bowling and other activities Seniors love to do (if the core audience is still active enough to get out and do that sort of thing.)
I'm sure a good brainstorming session can come up with many ways to sell an oldies format that tosses in some 50's music.
By the way, without intending to water down the above points, for what it's worth, I just thought I'd mention that Toronto's 1050 CHUM has chosen to add 80's music to their playlist.
They also refrain from saying "Toronto's oldies station"
They are now "Toronto's greatest hits"
Have a listen to what they're doing today, and ask again, would an oldies (based) station work in Buffalo?
Then there's 1150 AM radio in Hamilton...suddenly there's two very different ideas of what music *should* work for either an oldies radio station today, or an oldies *based* format.
My last and very interesting point would be to ask if Buffalo would rather just settle on having a Fickle that covers oldies very well, but with currents...(I think that's what Rochester's fickle is doing??)
1050 CHUM "listen live" link: http://www.1050chum.com/index_listenlive.aspx
Oldies 1150 "listen live" link:
http://www.oldies1150.com/player/player
There used to be alot of ads for will kits on the radio... ??? whatever happend to them?
Then there's room to add in ads for nursing homes (if the core audience isn't there already. lol)
The younger side may pay closer attention to ads for "retirement living".
Ads for bowling and other activities Seniors love to do (if the core audience is still active enough to get out and do that sort of thing.)
I'm sure a good brainstorming session can come up with many ways to sell an oldies format that tosses in some 50's music.
By the way, without intending to water down the above points, for what it's worth, I just thought I'd mention that Toronto's 1050 CHUM has chosen to add 80's music to their playlist.
They also refrain from saying "Toronto's oldies station"
They are now "Toronto's greatest hits"
Have a listen to what they're doing today, and ask again, would an oldies (based) station work in Buffalo?
Then there's 1150 AM radio in Hamilton...suddenly there's two very different ideas of what music *should* work for either an oldies radio station today, or an oldies *based* format.
My last and very interesting point would be to ask if Buffalo would rather just settle on having a Fickle that covers oldies very well, but with currents...(I think that's what Rochester's fickle is doing??)
1050 CHUM "listen live" link: http://www.1050chum.com/index_listenlive.aspx
Oldies 1150 "listen live" link:
http://www.oldies1150.com/player/player
Deja Vu?
Gee, that sounds very familiar to anyone who followed the WHTT saga. It sounds like CHUM has figured out that it needs to appeal to an audience that's younger than 55-to-death.
It's not that there aren't any advertisers looking for that audience, it's just that there aren't enough advertisers looking for that audience - even in Toronto, which is a much larger and wealthier market than Buffalo.
I'm less familiar than I used to be with Toronto radio. There are now so many FM radio stations there that I'm not sure if there's a gold-based AC on FM that goes back as far as the '60s. I'm guessing that CHUM has the market to itself, which is why it's still viable as an AM.
PS - TG that "Mix" is already in use in TO. Talk about a non-descript station ID...
Yeziknoradio said:
Gee, that sounds very familiar to anyone who followed the WHTT saga. It sounds like CHUM has figured out that it needs to appeal to an audience that's younger than 55-to-death.
It's not that there aren't any advertisers looking for that audience, it's just that there aren't enough advertisers looking for that audience - even in Toronto, which is a much larger and wealthier market than Buffalo.
I'm less familiar than I used to be with Toronto radio. There are now so many FM radio stations there that I'm not sure if there's a gold-based AC on FM that goes back as far as the '60s. I'm guessing that CHUM has the market to itself, which is why it's still viable as an AM.
PS - TG that "Mix" is already in use in TO. Talk about a non-descript station ID...
A
AndrewLawson
Guest
This is a very good point. If a station uses "Rock" in its name, it's either classic or active, when "Classic" is used, it's either hits or rock; "Lite" and "Oldies" are equally clear as to what the station plays. Mix seems vague. I like what WHTT is doing with the Flashback features and have been listening more than I did about a month or two ago. Not long ago I heard "Satisfaction" by the Stones and "Superstition" by Stevie Wonder within a matter of 20 minutes. 104 just seems to be the spot on the FM band that listeners expect to hear songs like this.SirRoxalot said:
Re-Mix
I don't see WHTT going back to the "Oldies" moniker. Why discourage listeners who don't feel "old"? It's probably too late to go back to "Buffalo's Greatest Hits", and "Mix" gives them a lot of leeway to slide the music focus either older or younger.
In other words, "Mix" ain't great, but I don't see them changing it. I, too, am listening longer, and it seems to me that they're playing a lot more '70s and '80s, and even a few '60s during "normal" programming, and not just during the "Flashback" features.
I don't see WHTT going back to the "Oldies" moniker. Why discourage listeners who don't feel "old"? It's probably too late to go back to "Buffalo's Greatest Hits", and "Mix" gives them a lot of leeway to slide the music focus either older or younger.
In other words, "Mix" ain't great, but I don't see them changing it. I, too, am listening longer, and it seems to me that they're playing a lot more '70s and '80s, and even a few '60s during "normal" programming, and not just during the "Flashback" features.
The funny thing is, Buffalo already had a "Mix" in the early 90's (@92.9) but instead of working with what they had and tweaking where they saw fit, they just tossed it away!
So the question is, "will history repeat itself or have the suits learned anything from past performance." In other words, to quote Santayana (or was it The Janitor), "those who learn nothing from history are doomed to repeat the same mistakes." This version of Mix sounds a bit better than the WBUF version, but that may not be saying much because the WBUF version was so... what's the word... lame?
The critical components of this version of Mix (Mix v. 1.04) may be (1) repetition, (2) the air personalities and (3) the music from the 80s, which was a very fragmented, diverse era.
There appear to be more 70s songs in the mix these days and a just a skooch of 60s. Seems the station has come to understand that its strength lies in attracting the 42-52 year old male and female listener. How can any station go wrong playing hit songs from the Beatles and Stones?
The critical components of this version of Mix (Mix v. 1.04) may be (1) repetition, (2) the air personalities and (3) the music from the 80s, which was a very fragmented, diverse era.
There appear to be more 70s songs in the mix these days and a just a skooch of 60s. Seems the station has come to understand that its strength lies in attracting the 42-52 year old male and female listener. How can any station go wrong playing hit songs from the Beatles and Stones?
Speaking of Oldies in Buffalo, what's the notorious WJJL up to lately?
When I was in Buffalo earlier this year, I heard no live DJs, just something a step below voice tracking - guys doing little personal vignettes between songs about the good old days in Buffalo. The music selection was interesting, but at the top of the hour, the song playing would get cut off.
Being the only Oldies station in Buffalo/Niagara Falls and getting no ratings must be embarrassing. Are they still under receivership?
When I was in Buffalo earlier this year, I heard no live DJs, just something a step below voice tracking - guys doing little personal vignettes between songs about the good old days in Buffalo. The music selection was interesting, but at the top of the hour, the song playing would get cut off.
Being the only Oldies station in Buffalo/Niagara Falls and getting no ratings must be embarrassing. Are they still under receivership?
A
alw
Guest
cee said:
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