Would Philly support a station like WWWT Washington DC?

[radiophiler]

New Washington DC talk station WWWT is mixing liberal and conservative talk hosts on one station. Slogan is "Left, right and whatever we feel like."
Neal Boortz, Bill O'Reilly, Randy Rhodes, Stephanie Miller, Larry King, Jim Bohannon, Tony Kornheiser (once football season is over) and Phil Hendrie all on one station.
What if a Philly station did this? Local morning show and then a mix of liberal and conservative the rest of the day.
After all, WPHT is all conservative and so is WNTP. Air America tried placing two of its shows on the old WHAT with practically no promotion, and the shows went away never to return even on a suburban station.
Here's a proposed schedule
5:30-9a.m.: big name local show
9-noon Stephanie Miller
noon-3: Boortz
3-6: Randy Rhodes
6-9: Dave Ramsay
9-10: King
10-1: Bohannon or Alan Colmes
1-4: Hendrie


Another option:
local until 10
10-1 S. Miller
1-4 Clark Howard
4-7 Rhodes
7-10 Savage since WNTP is burying him overnights
10-1 Bohannon or Colmes
1-4: Hendrie

Thoughts?

 

[Beejus]

New Washington DC talk station WWWT is mixing liberal and conservative talk hosts on one station. Slogan is "Left, right and whatever we feel like."

So they're the Jack FM of Talk?

Talking... whatever we feel like!

Sorry... couldn't resist!

 

[Irishfl]

I don't think it would work, but I think you would have to have Rush live. Afterall, like him or hate him, he is the king of political talk.

 

[ajhenderson]

I don't think it will work in Washington.

 

[8638]

Sounds like a mish mosh of programming to me.

The bigger question: would Philly support a full market signal FM news operation, such as WTOP Washington? I like KYW, a lot, but have always enjoyed the presentation on WTOP, so much so that when it was still on 1500 KHz, it was on my clock radio for those pre dawn wakeups (which I dread!).

Thoughts?

 

[qtpieislit]

It was always exciting to listen to 1500/WTOP. Something about their delivery and natural Amplitude sound that struck a sweet spot. Of course, DC area news was rather irrelevant, but it was too much fun to listen to. At some point Bonneville Broadcasting, felt there was deficiencies in the signal regarding the null to the NW, affecting the metro rated areas surrounding the city. Personally, if you cannot make 50 Kw work for you, well, I don’t know what’s left. But then again, look at 1210’s signal. Now that is a deficient 50Kw signal. I guess it’s easier than not, to let the ground system melt away to a mineral.

 

[oaktree]

While both conservative & liberal talk won't work in many markets (including DC, in my opinion,) I wouldn't right the concept off ...

Jack Swanson's been doing it for 27 years in a row at number one KGO in San Francisco. Now beating KMOX for longevity, I believe.

Ronn Owens (conservative) Gil Gross (liberal) Gene Burns (Libertarian) Bernie Ward (liberal) Ray Talifiano (ultra left liberal.) Weekends are a mix of conservative and liberal as well. Of course, this is local talk and that says a lot.

 

[8638]

It was always exciting to listen to 1500/WTOP. Something about their delivery and natural Amplitude sound that struck a sweet spot. Of course, DC area news was rather irrelevant, but it was too much fun to listen to. At some point Bonneville Broadcasting, felt there was deficiencies in the signal regarding the null to the NW, affecting the metro rated areas surrounding the city. Personally, if you cannot make 50 Kw work for you, well, I don’t know what’s left. But then again, look at 1210’s signal. Now that is a deficient 50Kw signal. I guess it’s easier than not, to let the ground system melt away to a mineral.

Totally agree, Sam. To me, it doesn't sound the same on 103.5. And, of course, I can't hear 103.5 ever on the Jersey shore. As for WPHT, it sounds more like a 5 Kw station than a 50. WPEN is stronger here now! Frustrating trying to listen to the Phils, not to mention the rest of then lineup.

 

[MarcB]

As for WPHT, it sounds more like a 5 Kw station than a 50.

I agree WPHT's signal is horrible. When I was vacationing in King or Prussia the all ethnic station WNWR 1540 was coming in more clearly than WPHT.

 

[BRNout]

As for WPHT, it sounds more like a 5 Kw station than a 50.

I agree WPHT's signal is horrible. When I was vacationing in King or Prussia the all ethnic station WNWR 1540 was coming in more clearly than WPHT.

Thank you! This is the worst 50 kw, supposedly "clear", signal I have ever heard!! Even their nighttime IBOC buzzmaker can be nulled out for 1200 am from my location - which is a few minutes to the west of King of Prussia. I have difficulty listening to WPHT on my bathroom GE SuperRadio when getting ready in the morning due to static. And, electrical interference often blots it out in the car (in a most annoying way) on main roads near Malvern, Paoli and Berwyn. These are hardly fringe areas - they're right in the metro market. Frankly, WABC isn't that much weaker in many areas (during the day).

On the other hand, KYW's signal is much, much stronger day and night. My radio with a signal meter shows WPHT between 3 and 4 out of 10, while KYW is a 9 out of 10. It's a big difference. And, it is most certainly NOT due to dial position.

 

[DG02816]

BRN,

Remember KYW is a 2-tower DA-1, having nulls to NYC to protect WEPN 1050 (the transmitter sites are just 79 miles apart)and XEEP-1060 in Mexico City along with the 1060 in New Orleans, WLNO. KYW's major lobes have the equivalent of 125 kW power, You can get a good amount of gain with a directional array.

 

[BRNout]

BRN,

Remember KYW is a 2-tower DA-1, having nulls to NYC to protect WEPN 1050 (the transmitter sites are just 79 miles apart)and XEEP-1060 in Mexico City along with the 1060 in New Orleans, WLNO. KYW's major lobes have the equivalent of 125 kW power, You can get a good amount of gain with a directional array.

BRN,

Remember KYW is a 2-tower DA-1, having nulls to NYC to protect WEPN 1050 (the transmitter sites are just 79 miles apart)and XEEP-1060 in Mexico City along with the 1060 in New Orleans, WLNO. KYW's major lobes have the equivalent of 125 kW power, You can get a good amount of gain with a directional array.

All good points. And yes, in my area KYW has, by far, the strongest AM signal. Second place is not even close. Granted, it is probably not fair to compare. But, then again, they are the only other 50 kw signal in the area.

However, WPHT's signal strength is down around the same level as WPEN, WNTP and WIP. In fact, I believe WIP is a little stronger. During the day, 1 kw WFYL 1180 from King of Prussia comes in about as well in Chester County as WPHT. They're very close on the strength meter. Yes, I know they're closer - but they also have only 1/50th of the juice. Hardly a good case for the power of WPHT. Nor does WPHT penetrate very far into northern NJ or central PA. Their daytime range is not at all comparable with stations like WTIC, the New Yorkers or even WWKB during the day (at night they're highly directional so that wouldn't be fair).

WPHT's signal reminds me of an old 100 watt bulb that shines with that dull yellowish color. Yes, it uses 100 watts - but it doesn't cast as much light as a 60 watt halogen. In my travels, I am more accustomed to 50 kw stations that come very well near their city of license and not to having to turn down the volume to keep the electrical interference from deafening us.

 

[ajhenderson]

BRN,

However, WPHT's signal strength is down around the same level as WPEN, WNTP and WIP. In fact, I believe WIP is a little stronger. During the day, 1 kw WFYL 1180 from King of Prussia comes in about as well in Chester County as WPHT. They're very close on the strength meter. Yes, I know they're closer - but they also have only 1/50th of the juice. Hardly a good case for the power of WPHT. Nor does WPHT penetrate very far into northern NJ or central PA. Their daytime range is not at all comparable with stations like WTIC, the New Yorkers or even WWKB during the day (at night they're highly directional so that wouldn't be fair).
\

1kW is not 1/50th of 50kW; it is the square root of 50-th, or about 1/7th as powerful. This, of course, assuming stations on the same frequency, so 1180 has a slight advantage over 1210 on that front.

 

[BRNout]

1kW is not 1/50th of 50kW; it is the square root of 50-th, or about 1/7th as powerful. This, of course, assuming stations on the same frequency, so 1180 has a slight advantage over 1210 on that front.

Ah, that's signal range - and you're absolutely right about that. Doubling the wattage only increases the range by 1/4th, IIRC.

But, when it comes to how much electricity (I think I used the word "juice") is expended, then my statement stands - 1 kw is 1/50 of 50 kw. In other words, that little station at 1180 is getting a lot more bang for their buck!

 

[DG02816]

BRN,

Doubling power will increase coverage by 41.4%. An easy to follow example being:Say WFYL gets to operate with 5 kW using their non-D setup. Not sure if the Valcom whip could handle it, but here goes: With a 50 ohm base impedance, the antenna current would be 10 amperes. Use Ohm's Law: Power out equals the SQUARE of the antenna current times its base impedance:
10^2*50=5000. For 10 kW out:, to find the current, take the SQUARE ROOT of the power divided by the base impedance: sqrt 10000/50=200. Take the square root of 200, which is 14.14, the antenna current at 10 kW.
Divide 14.14 by 10, you get 1.414. So doubling power gives you 41.4 % more coverage. This works too with directional arrays that just cut power at sunset.

 

[BRNout]

BRN,

Doubling power will increase coverage by 41.4%. An easy to follow example being:Say WFYL gets to operate with 5 kW using their non-D setup. Not sure if the Valcom whip could handle it, but here goes: With a 50 ohm base impedance, the antenna current would be 10 amperes. Use Ohm's Law: Power out equals the SQUARE of the antenna current times its base impedance:
10^2*50=5000. For 10 kW out:, to find the current, take the SQUARE ROOT of the power divided by the base impedance: sqrt 10000/50=200. Take the square root of 200, which is 14.14, the antenna current at 10 kW.
Divide 14.14 by 10, you get 1.414. So doubling power gives you 41.4 % more coverage. This works too with directional arrays that just cut power at sunset.

Dave, don't power increases have less effect (on a percentage basis) as you go up in power? In other words, a reverse logarithmic increase?

The 25% I was thinking of was for a 50 kw station, but using the equations that you provided (which I appreciate) - I came out with roughly 16% for a 50 kw station. Clearly, your way is much better!

The reason I remember the number being lower as you go up was a discussion that I once had with an engineer about superpowered am stations in Europe. Basically, he indicated that doubling a 50 kw signal to 100 kw would not do that much for you and that you'd have to go with 500 kw to roughly double the station's range.

But, you sure do make a big improvement by doubling a lower powered signal!