Would this format work??

[rbrucecarter5]

I can't help but wonder about someone who would call Praise and Worship, "Cr@p".

'nuff said.

That would be ME. Got anything to say to me?

I called it Cr@p and I stand by it. Its OK in church, but it is not music that draws me anywhere closer to God. If it isn't upbeat - it puts me to sleep. Same with everybody else in my church under 50. Give me some music with some life to it, or forget it - I'll never hear the sermon because the music put me to sleep. Where most Christians are today anyway.
If you like the stuff, go listen to it. Just don't foist it on me as "holier" than Christian rock, nor expect masses of teens and young adults to listen to it preferentially. The vast majority of people don't like it and are bored by it.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Scripture tells us that God inhabits the praises of His people.

OK... NOW I can say, 'Nuff Said!

Psalm 33:3 (King James Version)
Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise.

Psalm 150
Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.
Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.
Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.

God loves loud, exciting music. You got a problem - take it up with HIM not me. Look up the instruments - looks a lot like a rock band to me!

Time for ME to say 'nuff said!

 

[skippertthomas]

Great discussion... I have sit back and soaked in what is being said.. Valid points on both extremes.. Dogma has always been a needle in the back of 'methods' in different forms of Christian outreach.. Bus ministry, door to door witness, pizza parties, Christian Business Guides (why should we favor a brother over someone more qualified? Where is our witness to the lost car mechanic? Just an example..).. Music got Luther in more hot water than anything.. The words tacted to Whittenburg were just the straw that broke the camel's back...
NOW, on the mixed format.. Very unusual.. But, I am involved in a 'theocratic' outreach that is not a normal "Christian Format", but a 'cold cup of water to the non-theoligical, no exposure to Christ' group of kids with green hair and blue fingernails.. We are a piece of cake with picky icing to challenge them with questions that they come to our coffee house/venue to find answers for.. I would say 70% of those who come in contact with us, at first are non-Christians.. We warn our Christian support group that this is "THE STREET" and we're Spurgeon...One foot from the front gate of Hell.... In our many years of outreach and three plus years of the LPFM reaching out, we have seen a large group (about 20 to 25% of those first exposed to our venue and station) start attending our 'Ask any question you want' Bible outreach... From that we've seen lives Saved and kids off to study for a trade and Minstry... Yes, we play some selected 'lipmus' tested mainstream that 'asks questions of society' and 'deals with pain (suicide, neglect, abuse, etc.)'... We always follow it (this is life, today) with The Good News to ponder on (this is life, eternal)... Not for everyone and we do re-evaluate what we play every week... If we feel we are off the mark, we adjust... So, Christian Radio per sey? No... Water on a fire... Yes... I have a strong need in my market for a CCM that is Hot-AC/Adult CHR in the day and Christian Youth, night.. The original Way sound we had in Florida and Nashville.... We are working on it.. The approach is to the flock in their daily walk... Now, my only true beef with today's CCM radio is: 1....Real Estate Programming... Trying to milk and provide a McDonald's sound with no LOCAL content or contact.. 2....The praise CCM is great, but, has a fixation on a narrower group of suburban white women and thus, we are guilty of playing to the choir and not challenging them by being relatable to those who have walked away from the Church...We program to the safest, with the most money to give demographic, and don't live on the edge, as much... A cycle of Christian communications for years.. 3.... We are back to the 'them and us' mentality...The dance/pop/urban is missing.. Hello? McFly? Female 18-44 love the beat and we had it, once.. Now there is a division in Gospel Music.. We are more Black and White divided, than ever... God forgive us... 4... We are not to play CHURCH.. We are to be a PART OF IT... We are not a worship service, but a lifestyle element that is a SPIRITUAL VITAMIN... This is for all formats under the Christian banner.... In CCM.. We once looked at stiring the mind and challenging one to consider where they were at in their "Walk" or non-walk... Then they seek... We have almost stripped the EVANGELISM out of CCM radio.. We are now pleased to 'play to Choir'... And you wonder why many non-Christians don't understand our (what we think is our 'cool and hip' CCM station)... Our intensity has a history of being 20% less agressive than our (what we think of) as our secular counterpart that reaches for our target demographic... Not mad, just observations of what I see, now that I am returning to CCM involvement, after 10 years off.... I see as much Christian ethics in a secular group I work for, than some that run CCM, Inspirational, Southern or Urban Gospel stations I have done things with... Yet, I loved the wonderful 8 years with Way-Fm and would work with them again, if called.. I might be a little more edgy, but, I see good stuff still happening in CCM.. I am just warning it of the "same ol', same ol'" that we tend to do every 15 to 20 years in Christian Radio.... Just my rose tinted glasses.. 8)

 

[rbrucecarter5]

GREAT points

1....Real Estate Programming... Trying to milk and provide a McDonald's sound with no LOCAL content or contact..

Or too much local content in the line of local preachers who may or may not be good public speakers.

2....The praise CCM is great, but, has a fixation on a narrower group of suburban white women and thus, we are guilty of playing to the choir and not challenging them by being relatable to those who have walked away from the Church...We program to the safest, with the most money to give demographic, and don't live on the edge, as much... A cycle of Christian communications for years..

All the younger women I know in the church - they aren't listening to praise CCM. They are listening to secular or the Christian rock station. I am hard pressed to find a single person that listens to the big local CCM - KLTY. The local Christian rock station - bumper stickers all over the parking lot.

3.... We are back to the 'them and us' mentality...The dance/pop/urban is missing.. Hello? McFly? Female 18-44 love the beat and we had it, once.. Now there is a division in Gospel Music.. We are more Black and White divided, than ever... God forgive us...

Agreed! We need dance, pop, urban, especially Christian Hip-Hop. The number one station in town is hip-hop. One second they are advertising an event at a local black church, the very next a detestably sexually explicit song. Talk about light and darkness! We need Christian artists doing top quality hip-hop with lyrics that please God!

As far as being black / white divided: if Obama's "pastor" is not de-certified by his church or even denomination - then his church has strayed from the gospel so far it cannot be redeemed except by much revival and repentance. Bigotry -whites against blacks, or blacks against whites - neither can be justified scripturally.

4... We are not to play CHURCH.. We are to be a PART OF IT... We are not a worship service, but a lifestyle element that is a SPIRITUAL VITAMIN... This is for all formats under the Christian banner.... In CCM.. We once looked at stiring the mind and challenging one to consider where they were at in their "Walk" or non-walk... Then they seek... We have almost stripped the EVANGELISM out of CCM radio.. We are now pleased to 'play to Choir'... And you wonder why many non-Christians don't understand our (what we think is our 'cool and hip' CCM station)... Our intensity has a history of being 20% less agressive than our (what we think of) as our secular counterpart that reaches for our target demographic... Not mad, just observations of what I see, now that I am returning to CCM involvement, after 10 years off.... I see as much Christian ethics in a secular group I work for, than some that run CCM, Inspirational, Southern or Urban Gospel stations I have done things with... Yet, I loved the wonderful 8 years with Way-Fm and would work with them again, if called.. I might be a little more edgy, but, I see good stuff still happening in CCM.. I am just warning it of the "same ol', same ol'" that we tend to do every 15 to 20 years in Christian Radio.... Just my rose tinted glasses.. 8)

I don't know where your numbers left off - but preach on! Evangelism must permeate Christian radio, or we deny our Savior. Period - that is scriptural. NO lukewarmness - HE spews lukewarm things out of His mouth! And - NO compromise. Remember my post about mixing dog poop with cookie dough - why would you do that? Associating the precious name of our Lord Jesus Christ with artists whose lifestyles and lyrics do not line up with the walk - destroys our witness, makes us no better than secular stations that occasionally throw in a Christian song, and confuses non-believers (not to mention kids, who need to be taught to walk separate from the things of this world).

Since somebody brought up Luther, here are some compromises I have heard on various Christian stations:

Playing the ("we're more popular than Jesus") Beatles "Birthday" under birthday announcements.
Advertising for the lottery.
Advertising for political candidates that openly support abortion and/or homosexuality.
Playing secular songs by Christian artists.
Playing Christian songs by secular artists.
Playing Christian artists who have fallen in their personal walk and have NOT repented and shown evidence thereof.
Playing secular artists who have professed Christianity for a time, then renounced Christ and followed a false religion (Cat Stevens).
Playing heresy songs like "Spirit in the Sky" ("I've never sinned"), "Imagine" ("Imagine there's no heaven"), etc.

--- and I can find a lot more dog poop if I look very hard. This isn't "Christian" radio - it is "feel good", "politically correct", compromised beyond repair garbage. It doesn't fool anybody, it is NOT family friendly (they played the Beatles why can't I), and it isn't smart. Christ will richly bless ministries that are true to the Word. Those that aren't - they might as well be secular because money is more important than their integrity and witness.

 

[G Thompson]

Scripture tells us that God inhabits the praises of His people.

OK... NOW I can say, 'Nuff Said!

Psalm 33:3 (King James Version)
Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise.

Psalm 150
Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.
Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.
Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.

God loves loud, exciting music. You got a problem - take it up with HIM not me. Look up the instruments - looks a lot like a rock band to me!

Time for ME to say 'nuff said!

SOUNDS LIKE CHICAGO TO ME! Saturday in the park with the Angels. Love that horn section.

 

[MorningLight]

Psalm 33:3 (King James Version)
Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise.

Psalm 150
Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.
Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.
Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.

God loves loud, exciting music. You got a problem - take it up with HIM not me. Look up the instruments - looks a lot like a rock band to me!

Time for ME to say 'nuff said!

I didn't say anything about God not liking this or that style of music. He totally transcends that, anyway! Whether a person worships Him with Gregorian Chant or by screaming at the top of their lungs while slamming cymbals together is irrelevant! He looks at the HEART. For you or me to insult someone because of their style of worship, or to insult the style of worship, itself, is wrong.

So, I was taking umbrage at you calling Praise and Worship, "cr@p".

That is a derrogatory reference to an act that God requires us to perform - Praising and Worshipping Him. HOW we do that is between us and God. For anyone to call it "cr@p" is... well... words fail me.

Just because YOU don't like something doesn't make it right to demean it... especially something as intimate as someone else's Praise and Worship of the LORD!

David danced naked (or almost naked) down the street before the Ark of the Covenant, and was insulted by other people for it... but God saw his HEART.

 

[justalurker]

Advertising for political candidates that openly support abortion and/or homosexuality.

If they are a candidate for federal office the station is stuck. Either that or not carry any ads for that office. The station cannot refuse ads of a particular candidate just because they don't like the candidate.

So, I was taking umbrage at you calling Praise and Worship, "cr@p".

I'm not sure he understands what praise and worship music is.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

I didn't say anything about God not liking this or that style of music. He totally transcends that, anyway! Whether a person worships Him with Gregorian Chant or by screaming at the top of their lungs while slamming cymbals together is irrelevant! He looks at the HEART. For you or me to insult someone because of their style of worship, or to insult the style of worship, itself, is wrong.

Willie, you are the one who comes here posting scriptures that speak to certain issues. Have you missed those verses in the New Testament that were written in response to behavioral problems during worship when some believers became so over excited in what we today refer to generally as "pentecostal" worship. I think if David had showed up in Paul's time and detracted from what Paul was teaching by marching naked down the street, Paul might have been recorded as saying: "Brother David, you and I need to step behind the building and have a chat about remaining proper in worship." As my soon to be pastor said the other day: There are places where scripture has some internal tension we have to deal with.

I think if you will spend some time tracking down and talking with those people who do research on the characteristics of congregations that are able to remain healthy in terms of attendance, membership, peaceful fellowship and GROWTH versus churches we will simply call underperforming in these areas, there is often a correlation to the music program of the church. I'm talking the effect over a 20 or 30 year period.

The music of Christianity has been so rapidly changing in the last 30 years I think we in the church are confused for now. What music is conducive to strong, vibrant churches and what music is conducive to disfunctional churches. Unfortunately many of us are simply shooting-from-the-hip with unproven prejudices.

In the meantime, in my prejudiced way, I would caution Christian radio stations about scheduling remote broadcasts which involve dancing naked in the street. ;D

 

[skippertthomas]

This is one of the best blogs we've had in our section of Radio-Info.. Keep the thoughts coming... Yes, If you run political ads for groups or candidates, you have to run them for all who can pay the minimum rate. This is a major concern to commercial licenses.. If you don't run ANY, then some backlash from the groups you agree with and candidate you indiviually support raise a stink on the other end! Catch 22 in that case.... Our short lived older based (35-64 CCM that was promoted as a 25-54 CCM) CCM station was commerical with nothing more than local listener drops and satellite programming 24/7... They had a 3.3 within a year (more than the classic hits fromat, prior), but had no sales staff on board with experience in selling a Christian format... They started using their major station selling power and did 'bonus spots' for big clients to their top station (AC), their main: CHR, Country and Classic Rock Stations... I had listeners running into our IT/Carrier company gasping at hearing Blockbuster Ads for "R" rated movies and Bar and Grill spots for "Happy Hour".. I explained the lack of knowledge in the ownership.. By the time the new GM came on board and they had called me about what they should do, the ownership had already decieded to go "Jack".. It sells better, on its own, but has lower quarter hour shares (12+) than the CCM did.... Just a memory....

 

[rbrucecarter5]

So, I was taking umbrage at you calling Praise and Worship, "cr@p".

I was referring to the musical style "praise and worship". NOT the act of praise and worship.

Chillax ----

 

[terrydiz]

I worked at WXLN in Louisville in the mid-80s when we tried this approach. Keep in mind this was one of the original CCM stations, and was the only station in Louisville playing CCM at the time. We played "Bridge Over Troubled Water" for its (kind of) spiritual message, "She Works Hard for the Money" because Donna Summer had become a Christian, America because Dan Peek was a believer and so on. We were a commercial station, but it was an abject failure. Formatting aside, the people that generally listened to CCM then wanted a refuge from any other music.

Today, I am not sure that the picture has changed all that much. I think people still want the refuge. Whether they need it or not is another argument for another time. However, with the proliferation of family-safe stations that play CCM (or read another way, the CCM stations that position themselves as safe for the family) I would think that there would be some backlash from the listeners at a commercial station and a revolt from the listeners of a listener-supported station. Why the difference? I think it's because CCMs that are listener-supported find their greatest support from those that seek a refuge from other music. The donations from people that might be there for other reasons are probably not as great.

I spent a few months about five years ago doing traffic for Metro in Columbus. One of my assignments was 97.1, a Hot AC at the time. As a person that enjoys CCM a lot I was amazed at the spiritual searching that is also going on in those lyrics. So the question might be asked (in another thread) which format best speaks to the emotional and spiritual needs of their listeners. Listening to country almost always brings a smile to my face or a tear to my eyes because of the great lyrics. I think AC, Hot AC and for that matter most formats can do this. CCM does, too, but I also think that CCM stations need for their personalities to "live the life" and share their struggles. The personal touch is one Jesus used, and I believe is the key to continued growth of CCM (and radio in general). I truly believe that the mixed format could work, but there has to be a vision for that specific programming idea. It cannot be done as just another format hoping to reach seekers.

Terry Dismore
Lazarus Communications Group

 

[Retro]

I am not sure if today this is still true or not. I know that myself back in the 80's, I didn't like the notion of a CCM station or show playing secular music (unless the artists were Christian themselves.) Even as I did like mainstream music too.

Today I see a real lot of Christians breaking the mold, and a back-lash against the idea of CCM, that is as a sub-market. I think that if a station is well programmed with the emphasis on both message and quality that you would have a sure winner! That is imho anyway.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

I worked at WXLN in Louisville in the mid-80s when we tried this approach. Keep in mind this was one of the original CCM stations, and was the only station in

I tried adding Collective Soul to our playlist in the 90's --- and the backlash was incredible. I heard about it at my church, from friends - the comments universally negative. I even got criticized for playing songs from Mister Mister - like Broken Wings. And they ARE Christians and that was supposed to be a Christian song. They even had an excellent version of Kyrie on the CD right next to Broken Wings. SAME backlash from the same people. We never did it again.

 

[getsmart]

The problem with christian music today, is alot of it sounds the same. I have been in christian radio for over 20 years, and have worked with several formats including ac, p and w, and black gospel. Back in the 80s and 90s, there was a variety of music played on the stations. We would have Rich Mullins, Be Be and Ce Ce, Katinas as well as some of the artists who used to do secular, but put out christian albums. I remember the first time I heard Dan Peek from America, singing Lonely People on Christian radio. What a surprise that was. Some of the others included Phillip Bailey, Maria Muldaur, Marilyn McCoo and John Elefante. It reached out to everyone, Christians and Non Christians because of name recognition. Their christian albums, put out a christian message and people enjoyed them. Now everthing is so formatted, which makes for boring radio. We had the specialty shows on the weekend, like rock and gospel, which also helped to reach out to many people. Radio goes in cycles, now is the time to go back to more variety, It would make for more interesting radio.

 

[Retro]

To add to the 80's list, remember when Columbia Records allowed Sparrow to release a Christian album from Deneice Williams as well? Good stuff!

 

[getsmart]

how about Lisa Welchel. She was on the tv show which had Kim Fields. I cant remember the name of the show. Dion,BJ Thomas,Al Green. I dont know, but as the years have gone by, there are less personalities in Christian radio. I rremember going to the Doves from 1986-1998, the artists were more accessible. One year they had differant events where the artists played sporting events with the djs. Michael W Smith, played on my Basketball Team. Another year, we all went to Amy Grants house for the release of Lead Me On. I stopped going because it became too commercialized and ego driven. Havent been to the Doves in 10 years. Maybe its changed at the Doves since Ive been there. I hope so. Plus the music isnt getting any better. Im still in christian radio, but am disappointed in the change of the industry itself. Its my ministry, which is why I am still around it.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Im still in christian radio, but am disappointed in the change of the industry itself. Its my ministry, which is why I am still around it.

Think with me a minute. I understand the concept "Its my ministry."

What are the ingredients of your ministry? Is music the TOTAL ingredient? A critical ingredient? a minor ingredient? What do you consider the cornerstone of "being in Chrisitan radio" as a ministry?

 

[rbrucecarter5]

as the years have gone by, there are less personalities in Christian radio. I rremember going to the Doves from 1986-1998, the artists were more accessible.

Don't even get me started on the Dove awards. Or shouldn't we just call it the Sandy Patty appreciation party. I had about enough of it when they called one very sincere threat to her queendom a "fluff head", and promptly gave her a song of the year award for a song that had never even been played on the radio up to that time - Via Dolorosa. Great song to some, I suppose, but it definitely didn't fit our format. Then - Sandy fell into sin. God was not mocked, a fire destroyed all those Dove awards she won. I hope she repented. You know - I remember her when she was still thin and really pretty, she was touring with Billy Graham in 1980.

 

[G Thompson]

To add to the 80's list, remember when Columbia Records allowed Sparrow to release a Christian album from Deneice Williams as well? Good stuff!

What a great platter. Remember the cover of the 45 for "Wings Of An Eagle?"

It was her smiling really big holding her Grammies. LOL...I was like "What do her Grammies have to do with THIS record? She won those for her mainstream project!." Oh well. It was cool to see her doing both.

 

[G Thompson]

as the years have gone by, there are less personalities in Christian radio. I rremember going to the Doves from 1986-1998, the artists were more accessible.

I remember her when she was still thin and really pretty, she was touring with Billy Graham in 1980.

I think God made her fat because he was mad at her; Right after he burned her doves for winning too much.



Bruce. Love ya. Lighten up, brother!