WPHT 1210 AM's talk format: cheap version of WCAU-AM?

[Jul]

I would like to know in your opinion, is WPHT 1210 AM's talk format a cheap version of WCAU-AM news/talk format in terms of programming, talent, etc. I think so. The WCAU-AM programming didn't sound cheap to me when I listened to it in the late 80's and 1990.

 

[LocalRadio]

Not a cheap version, Julius, just a reflection of current business realities in radio. Many major and smaller market news/talk stations that used to have full news departments and were live almost 24/7, have scaled down using syndicate programming. Many have totally eliminated live news departments as well.

It's not right or wrong, it's just the way it is today. Like you, I miss live and local talk radio supported by a full news team. Hell, I remember back in the late 60's when the late Wynn Moore was brought in as WCAU's "Investigative Reporter," adding to their already large (by local standards) news department.

Like the lyrics to the song made popular by Mary Hopkins, "Those were the days, my friend, we thought they’d never end..."

 

[BRNout]

I have to echo "Local Radio's" comments here. Things have changed a great deal over the years and very few present-day talk stations sound anything like they did in, say, 1985. The economics have changed as have the available programming sources.

WPHT's programming formatics, schedule, promotion and execution is quite comparable with what similarly formatted stations are doing in other major markets. Listen on line to leading N/T stations such as WABC, WLS, KNX, WTAM and others and you'll hear many similarities to the way in which WPHT does things. Granted, I happen to think that WABC, KNX and WLS offer more compelling local hosts - but they also represent much larger markets.

In fact, most smaller markets feature even less in the way of local talk programming than WPHT does. As an example, WGY 810 (Schenectady/Albany/Troy) is such a station that can be picked up here with ease after dark. Basically, this station is local and live in the morning and for news. The rest is syndicated. And, the station actually does pretty well in its market.

The expectation of a local host has been lowered to the extent that, in many smaller places, it is no longer a factor. That has been the trend over the past 20 years. In fact, unlike in other formats, many of those syndicated shows actually draw the audiences to stick around for the local hosts. Rush Limbaugh, in particular, has been successful in building audiences that stick around for more local programming.

All in all, WPHT's programming is quite standard for a moderately successful talker in a major market. At least they have local programming for a significant part of their schedule (weekday mornings 5-9 and evenings 6-12). That's pretty good, actually. If they need to work on anything, it's that anemic signal of theirs.

 

[Those RRRRs]

If they need to work on anything, it's that anemic signal of theirs.

No question about that one. Driving on 611 South between the turnpike and Willow Grove Mall last week at 7:00 PM and there was so much static that the signal was unlistenable.

Switched to KYW and it was loud and clear.

 

[oaktree]

Wynn Moore ... now that was a voice. I worked with him in Wilmington for a time. Nice memories and thanks for the post.

 

[ajhenderson]

KNX is a news station; it does not do talk. So while it may sound more modern, it's more similar to KYW than WPHT.

As to WTAM, they are pretty local for a medium market (out of the top 25). WGY isn't really a good example, though; have you been to upstate NY recently? The smallish-medium sized Albany market is dying along with the rest of them. Philadelphia is a major market - big difference in resources. Although you wouldn't know it judging by WPHT's mostly syndicated lineup, but that's what comes from having only one talk station of significance. 1210 has the top talkers.

 

[BRNout]

KNX is a news station; it does not do talk. So while it may sound more modern, it's more similar to KYW than WPHT.

Oops, you got me because I meant to write KFI - that's who I was thinking of. Good catch.

KFI has a little different lineup than the likes of WPHT or WABC because there are more talk competitors in the LA market: especially KABC and KLAA is trying to nose in too. For example, KABC has Hannity, Mark Levin and O'Reilly. KLAA has Glenn Beck, Jerry Doyle and Michael Savage.

So, faced with competition, KFI has some not-so-conservative talk hosts mixed in with Rush and the dreadful Dr. Laura. It seems to work as KFI generally pulls in good ratings.

It would be nice if Philly had a second real talker to compete with WPHT. It would keep them sharp.

 

[Rockin Rob]

KNX is a news station; it does not do talk. So while it may sound more modern, it's more similar to KYW than WPHT.

Oops, you got me because I meant to write KFI - that's who I was thinking of. Good catch.

KFI has a little different lineup than the likes of WPHT or WABC because there are more talk competitors in the LA market: especially KABC and KLAA is trying to nose in too. For example, KABC has Hannity, Mark Levin and O'Reilly. KLAA has Glenn Beck, Jerry Doyle and Michael Savage.

So, faced with competition, KFI has some not-so-conservative talk hosts mixed in with Rush and the dreadful Dr. Laura. It seems to work as KFI generally pulls in good ratings.

It would be nice if Philly had a second real talker to compete with WPHT. It would keep them sharp.

As in my Christmas thread post, the question is who? Also, with PHT grabbing Beck, Limbaugh and Hannity, what's left? As much as I wanted to see it flourish and AT LEAST challenge PHT, WNTP has become a joke and a clearing house for this supposed Salem talk network, save for Dennis Miller and Savage. It seems CBS has the serviceable 24/7 AM signals in the market. Nice concept on paper, but nothing is gonna happen. Therefore, CBS wins by default.

 

[BRNout]

As in my Christmas thread post, the question is who? Also, with PHT grabbing Beck, Limbaugh and Hannity, what's left? As much as I wanted to see it flourish and AT LEAST challenge PHT, WNTP has become a joke and a clearing house for this supposed Salem talk network, save for Dennis Miller and Savage. It seems CBS has the serviceable 24/7 AM signals in the market. Nice concept on paper, but nothing is gonna happen. Therefore, CBS wins by default.

How about WPEN? Sports talk doesn't seem to be doing a lot for them. And, although WPHT does have most of the biggest shows - they do not have them all.

WNTP dropped Michael Savage, so that show is out there. Love him or hate him, he does get a decent audience who seem pretty loyal. That could fill in the 6-9 (or 6-10) slot. So is Neil Boortz, which could fill 9-1. So, there are two dayparts that are immediately ready for you. Toss in Imus in the Morning, and you've filled a good part of the day.

And, I'd bet that the syndicators of Coast to Coast AM would love to see better clearance for that show than 2-5 am (M-F). Unless things have changed, WPHT also hasn't been carrying the Sunday night former Drudge show. Those shows, combined with a couple of local hosts, are enough to get started with - don't you think? It sure would be nice to have an alternative to Smerconish available. His topic selection leaves me shaking my head some days.

One thing I must admit: I agree that there aren't a lot of AM signals available in this market. But, 950 would seem to be a viable one - and Greater Media could make a mark with it by making it into a talker. They've done that in Boston (sans Rush) and could do it here. WNTP is a joke and is not a player.

 

[DToTheJ]

WNTP dropped Michael Savage, so that show is out there.

I thought when WNTP started carrying Dennis Miller, they only relegated Savage to the overnights and not dumped him outright.

950

would seem to be a viable one - and Greater Media could make a mark with it by making it into a talker. They've done that in Boston (sans Rush) and could do it here. WNTP is a joke and is not a player.

It should be noted that that station in Boston is an FM (and ironically AM stations usually rank in the Top 5 12+ there).

 

[ajhenderson]

Neal Boortz would never work in Philadelphia. Show is boring and appeals in places where 7-Elevens sell fried chicken. Beck, now more than ever, is the best you'll get in that daypart. Ingraham in second. Probably best to go local in midmornings.

 

[chuckydoll]

It's all about the economics

Not every AM station can afford to be WBZ, WGN or KGO.

AM radio has become more and more network/syndicated. This is especially true since Telecom '96.

Add the fact that talk radio is largely right-wing if not openly fascist. (Yes, I am talking about Limbaugh, Savage and the fanboys' favorite Glenn Beck.) That creates problems in getting big-name advertisers, which in turn means more cost-cutting and more network/syndicated stuff.

CBS mishandled AM 1210 for many years. Going oldies when music had migrated to FM. Going all-sports when WIP already had that format. Going back to talk, then lucking out when WWDB-FM changed format the day before the Presidential election in 2000.

At least AM 1210 has the Phillies and can build from there.

For the record the L.A. station with Michael Savage & Co. is KRLA.

 

[ajhenderson]

Chuckydoll, I don't know who you are referring to as "fanboy"; many of us come here to discuss radio, not politics, and judge hosts based on talent. If there were more than 2 liberal hosts who were in the same category and it was relevant to bring them up, I'd mention them, too. But they're not a fit for 1210.

As to Savage, you're incorrect; he moved from KRLA to KLAA several months ago.

 

[BRNout]

It should be noted that that station in Boston is an FM (and ironically AM stations usually rank in the Top 5 12+ there).

You're right about that, but WTKK still took a while to build. And, despite having the superior FM signal, its ratings still duke it out with the local AM talker - WRKO. My point was that Greater Media has some experience with the format and could leverage that experience in building a talker over at the chronically underperforming WPEN.

A talk format at 950 could grab some of WPHT's audience and may even increase the size of the format's "slice of pie" in the market. If done right, of course. Clearly, there are a number of syndicated shows out there that would be cost effective and who would also desire a more attractive carriage deal in this top 10 market. Savage and C to C representing two examples.

As to the guy who said that Boortz appeals only to "places where 7-11 sells fried chicken" (comment made as if there's some lack of that particular dish in Philly!), I agree that he probably wouldn't be a huge draw here. However, his show is during a relatively weak daypart anyhow and could help to fill out the schedule. Boortz actually does do well in certain markets and not just with "rednecks".