WPHT's Awful Ratings

[Bill_W]

I stand corrected on WPHT's top-of-the-hour news. A few years ago WPHT ran Fox and WNTP ran Salem news but I guess 990 is now Fox and 1210 is now CBS.

1210 has alway run CBS news. They are a CBS O&O. They have alway run CBS news exclusively through their entire 53 year history owned & operated by CBS. WCAU/WOGL/WGMP/WPHT, (And since even before 1957 when they were purchased by CBS). They have never run and never will run FOX news.

While 6+ numbers are not what WPHT may sell to advertisers, the fact that co-owned KYW has three times the listeners WPHT has, and co-owned WIP has 1 1/2 times the listeners, is still a fair comparison. If you're #19 in a given market and you're on AM, I can assure you, you're not in the top 5 25-54 and probably not in the top 10 in that demo, the one most talk stations care about.

Uh, no, that is not an accurate or a 'fair' comparison. (Except, perhaps maybe to a novice). It is all about specific and cumulative demographic targets. Lumping everything 6+ simply doesn't define the story.....This has been a recording.

WPHT did run Fox News at the top of the hour for a short while during the day. I forget when but, I was surprised to hear it when I did.

 

[radiophiler]

Re Air America in Philly:

For a short time, WHAT, under its previous owners, ran Al Franken from noon-3 and Randy Rhodes from 3-7 pm. Read down several paragraphs in this article: http://www.phila-tribune.com/channel/leisure/010707/what.asp

 

[fmradio1]

Conservatives like to bash Air America and somehow deduce that liberal leaning talk is a failure.

A couple of facts...

The Dial Global talkers such as Ed Schultz are making decent money despite much lower affiliate numbers.

Randi Rhodes is distributed by Premiere Radio Networks...Rush's syndicator. They obviously see some money making opportunities there.

The success of NPR in recent years. In quite a few markets, NPR stations ratings, particularly in the 25-54 money demos, rival if not outright beat the commercial conservatalker. It's not that NPR is not all that liberal, it's just that "mainstream" talk has moved so far right into wingnutty land, and it's chased liberals and many moderates away.

With more talk based formats moving to FM, there will be room for progressive talk on the dial in the coming years. Rush didn't dominate overnight. Now that AA is gone, the format is now growing more organically, with an emphasis on developing personalities.

Hate to say it, but conservative talk is dying. No one wants to see it, but it's happening. Look at the demos. The audience is nearly all 55+ and white. This is not the audience advertisers want. And despite the glut of baby boomers, the cumes on many talk stations aren't that impressive. Here in Boston, the upstart all sports station WBZ-FM was able to top established FM conservatalker WTKK and longtime AM talker WRKO in cume in only three months! I'm sure their demo breakdowns are better as well. It's a telling sign. Conservative talk isn't going anywhere anytime soon, but the demos are dying off. Once Rush hangs it up, I could see a lot of conservatalkers switching to other formats.

 

[8638]

Conservatives like to bash Air America and somehow deduce that liberal leaning talk is a failure.


Hate to say it, but conservative talk is dying. No one wants to see it, but it's happening. Look at the demos. The audience is nearly all 55+ and white. This is not the audience advertisers want. And despite the glut of baby boomers, the cumes on many talk stations aren't that impressive. Here in Boston, the upstart all sports station WBZ-FM was able to top established FM conservatalker WTKK and longtime AM talker WRKO in cume in only three months! I'm sure their demo breakdowns are better as well. It's a telling sign. Conservative talk isn't going anywhere anytime soon, but the demos are dying off. Once Rush hangs it up, I could see a lot of conservatalkers switching to other formats.

I didn't bash Air America, I just didn't listen to it much. I mean, just how many times can one hear "It's all the evil George W. Bush and Dick Cheney's fault"? And I'm not at all sure I'd refer to NPR as mainstream. And that programming survives because its listeners choose to support it via contributions, not to mention the U.S. Taxpayer.

Conservative talk dying? Tell that to Limbaugh's advertisers. His spot load seems to have increased in the past several years. As long as Barack Obama is President, conservative talk will thrive and grow. Perhaps not in Philly, a decidedly liberal town, which seems to become more crime ridden and dangerous by the year, but in the country as a whole.

 

[davideduardo]

Hate to say it, but conservative talk is dying. No one wants to see it, but it's happening. Look at the demos. The audience is nearly all 55+ and white. This is not the audience advertisers want. And despite the glut of baby boomers, the cumes on many talk stations aren't that impressive.

The issue with ageing talk stations has to do with the band they are on, not the format. When AM conservative talkers move to FM, such as has happened in several dozen markets, the 25-54 listening shoots up.

Some heritage conservative AM stations are simulcasting on FM, some are FM start ups and some simply moved to FM. One that moved is WIBC in Indianapolis... not in top 10 25-54 prior to move, now well inside top 5. Or KSL in SLC, which started an FM simulcast about two years ago... and 25-54 is up to where the station is generally #1 in that demo now. Or take the startup FM, WPGB, in Pittsburgh, which usually beats KDKA in 25-54.

 

[imhomerjay]

I didn't bash Air America, I just didn't listen to it much. I mean, just how many times can one hear "It's all the evil George W. Bush and Dick Cheney's fault"?

About as often as the nonsense about Obama being a radical leftist socialist (etc.)

 

[HarrytheK1]

I mean, just how many times can one hear "It's all the evil George W. Bush and Dick Cheney's fault."...As long as Barack Obama is President, conservative talk will thrive and grow. Perhaps not in Philly, a decidedly liberal town, which seems to become more crime ridden and dangerous by the year, but in the country as a whole.

So people can only hear so much about "the evil George W. Bush and Dick Cheney's fault," yet they're endlessly willing to hear "Obama is destroying our country," "You're a great American", and "The interview with Sarah Palin on my show tonight at 9 on Fox is the best interview ever done?" People (and obviously you in particular) are willing to hear points-of-view over and over if they agree with them. If they don't agree with the host's point-of-view, then it's "who wants to hear that over and over."

BTW, could you please back up your claims about Philadelphia with some facts and statistics. We'll be waiting.

 

[Big Jay]

Even a decent talk-host would HAVE those stats, and be ready to deliver them when hit with a statement like that...or at least have the producer look them up. Then the argument is de-balled. But I must agree with some of the postings here. Air-America seemed to me to be "All-Bush-All-The-Time" which ain't a bad slogan for a HOT FM Talk-Station....but that's why THEY all disappeared so quickly.

"Give us 22 minutes, and we'll give you the anti-Bush-world."

THAT might have been entertaining. And that's another reason Air-America failed. See, Rush is a master entertainer. I almost don't listen to him for the politics...I'm there for the SHOW! It's ALL a show...YOU of all people know that Harry…it’s a SHOW. Air-America NEVER got that. They were SOOOO intent on being the “HE’S-AN-OAF" service, that they lost their mission.

When Hilarie and I were on 1210 in ’97-’98 (remember WPTS for a brief while?) we were preceded by Imus out of NY (I love him personally as I worked with him at WNNNBC) but he just never clicked in Philly, followed by an hour of STOCK-talk with the late Fred SHERRRRRRMAN. Wonderful guy too...but for a whole hour, the audience went totally away after the first few minutes...and we had the unenviable task of getting people BACK in any way we could...thus the LIFESTYLE-type talk mixed with SOME politics.

But the ONLY real topics that generated MAINSTREAM reaction were the death of Princess Di (universal appeal) and maybe the death of Richie Ashburn…or when we had celeb interviews local and national. We would bering UP local things, but, because younger people were NOT listening, it didn't click. HAD they been. it would have! Otherwise, it was old-men-in-their-underwear who wanted to tell us about how things were during the depression, ragging on the people who got Section 8 housing in Grey's Ferry and how things were great in Philly during the Rizzo administration. We'd bring up the last episode of Seinfeld, and none of the listeners then even KNEW what we were talking about!!!!

But I think mainstream talk-radio MUST have a balance of politics, lifestyle and discussions about LOCAL events that all have universal themes. It almost can be NOT be perceived as TALK...it's LIFESTYLE!!!!
THAT is whey PHT ain't doing as well as it SHOULD be during times of NON-PRESIDENTIAL politics. I am NOT blasting management there, as I work for the same company, but that station SHOULD be a powerhouse for the TYPICAL Delaware Valley person, younger than 60. Most talkers on AM skew VERY old and that’s almost inevitable.

I realize that YOUNGER people barely turn ON AM (except for KYW for school closings and BIG news events, and WIP for SPORTS addicts and maybe FIL and NTP for the religious ultra-right programming) so why doesn't PHT use the RUSH strategy for people who want to be ENTERTAINED and INFORMED at the same time with good CONTEMPORARY talkers who KNOW they MUST do local things to the LOCALS!!! The host NEEDN’T be politically left or right…just entertaining!!!

I guess it’s cheaper to plug into the bird than have live and local Philly Pholks. Remember, it IS a business…but that’s where radio in many cities has lost its way. Sometimes marquee players of national importance CAN deliver a bigger audience than a local talker…but then you have the wrong local talker in the slot.

Why did WWDB-FM do so well for so long? Mostly it was live and local!! Business decisions in the last couple of years by the Beasley family got in the way…losing Rush (because they didn’t want to PAY what they wanted to run the show) was the SINGLE biggest reason (along with Penis Pump-Info-mercials) that killed DB. We WERE on the right track with some more YOUTHFUL talkers who didn’t talk much politics, but more LIFESTYLE things without resorting to boys-locker-room discussions about female anatomy all the time (like YSP and the other HOT Talk stations did.) THAT is where THAT format when wrong. All BUSH all the TIME and we ain’t talkin’ about George Dubya.)

SO now my friends, you have my spin on this PHT story. I'm simply an outsider making observations based on guts and first hand knowledge of how a talk station doesn't have to be all politics all the time...witness New Jersey 101.5!!

I should become a consultant.

BE BIG!

 

[MikefromDelaware]

If you look at the ratings for Philly, in fact WHYY-FM NPR did get a higher rating than WPHT. It wasn't a large difference, but that might show where many of the other talk listeners went years ago when WWDB died. Those who are not ultra right wingers, may have found the programming/talk/commentary, etc that NPR and WHYY-FM offer to be far more interesting and certainly more balanced than the trio of Beck/Rush/Hannity on WPHT. Those in Philly have 3 choices for talk (not counting sports talk) WPHT, WNTP, and WHYY. WNTP is the minor league player here leaving WPHT and WHYY-FM to battle it out for talk dominance in Philly.

I live in Wilmington, so I have 4 choices Philly's WPHT, WHYY-FM, and Wilmington's WDEL, and WILM. WPHT and WILM essentially are the same. WDEL offers a lib local talker in the morning after drive time and a conservative local talker during Rush/Hannity prior to afternoon drive. I generally go back and forth between WDEL's lib talker and WHYY-FM in the mornings and WHYY-FM in the afternoons. I'll once in a while put on WILM for about 15-30 minutes to hear what the lastest crisis via Rush is and then back to WHYY. Unfortunately, the Wilmington ratings aren't PPM generated so the non-comms like WHYY don't show, but MY GUESS is they get reasonable ratings in Wilmington as well. Again, because the more moderate and liberal audiences want something other than Obama is evil and a socialist yelled at them all day. Maybe someone actually does know how WHYY-FM ranks in Wilmington as compared to WDEL and WILM.

 

[8638]

I didn't bash Air America, I just didn't listen to it much. I mean, just how many times can one hear "It's all the evil George W. Bush and Dick Cheney's fault"?

About as often as the nonsense about Obama being a radical leftist socialist (etc.)

If the boot fits, lace it up!

You find the President's proposals mainstream American? Open your copy of the Constitution, if you have one.

 

[8638]

Even a decent talk-host would HAVE those stats, and be ready to deliver them when hit with a statement like that...or at least have the producer look them up. Then the argument is de-balled. But I must agree with some of the postings here. Air-America seemed to me to be "All-Bush-All-The-Time" which ain't a bad slogan for a HOT FM Talk-Station....but that's why THEY all disappeared so quickly.

"Give us 22 minutes, and we'll give you the anti-Bush-world."

THAT might have been entertaining. And that's another reason Air-America failed. See, Rush is a master entertainer. I almost don't listen to him for the politics...I'm there for the SHOW! It's ALL a show...YOU of all people know that Harry…it’s a SHOW. Air-America NEVER got that. They were SOOOO intent on being the “HE’S-AN-OAF" service, that they lost their mission.

When Hilarie and I were on 1210 in ’97-’98 (remember WPTS for a brief while?) we were preceded by Imus out of NY (I love him personally as I worked with him at WNNNBC) but he just never clicked in Philly, followed by an hour of STOCK-talk with the late Fred SHERRRRRRMAN. Wonderful guy too...but for a whole hour, the audience went totally away after the first few minutes...and we had the unenviable task of getting people BACK in any way we could...thus the LIFESTYLE-type talk mixed with SOME politics.

But the ONLY real topics that generated MAINSTREAM reaction were the death of Princess Di (universal appeal) and maybe the death of Richie Ashburn…or when we had celeb interviews local and national. We would bering UP local things, but, because younger people were NOT listening, it didn't click. HAD they been. it would have! Otherwise, it was old-men-in-their-underwear who wanted to tell us about how things were during the depression, ragging on the people who got Section 8 housing in Grey's Ferry and how things were great in Philly during the Rizzo administration. We'd bring up the last episode of Seinfeld, and none of the listeners then even KNEW what we were talking about!!!!

But I think mainstream talk-radio MUST have a balance of politics, lifestyle and discussions about LOCAL events that all have universal themes. It almost can be NOT be perceived as TALK...it's LIFESTYLE!!!!
THAT is whey PHT ain't doing as well as it SHOULD be during times of NON-PRESIDENTIAL politics. I am NOT blasting management there, as I work for the same company, but that station SHOULD be a powerhouse for the TYPICAL Delaware Valley person, younger than 60. Most talkers on AM skew VERY old and that’s almost inevitable.

I realize that YOUNGER people barely turn ON AM (except for KYW for school closings and BIG news events, and WIP for SPORTS addicts and maybe FIL and NTP for the religious ultra-right programming) so why doesn't PHT use the RUSH strategy for people who want to be ENTERTAINED and INFORMED at the same time with good CONTEMPORARY talkers who KNOW they MUST do local things to the LOCALS!!! The host NEEDN’T be politically left or right…just entertaining!!!

I guess it’s cheaper to plug into the bird than have live and local Philly Pholks. Remember, it IS a business…but that’s where radio in many cities has lost its way. Sometimes marquee players of national importance CAN deliver a bigger audience than a local talker…but then you have the wrong local talker in the slot.

Why did WWDB-FM do so well for so long? Mostly it was live and local!! Business decisions in the last couple of years by the Beasley family got in the way…losing Rush (because they didn’t want to PAY what they wanted to run the show) was the SINGLE biggest reason (along with Penis Pump-Info-mercials) that killed DB. We WERE on the right track with some more YOUTHFUL talkers who didn’t talk much politics, but more LIFESTYLE things without resorting to boys-locker-room discussions about female anatomy all the time (like YSP and the other HOT Talk stations did.) THAT is where THAT format when wrong. All BUSH all the TIME and we ain’t talkin’ about George Dubya.)

SO now my friends, you have my spin on this PHT story. I'm simply an outsider making observations based on guts and first hand knowledge of how a talk station doesn't have to be all politics all the time...witness New Jersey 101.5!!

I should become a consultant.

BE BIG!

Big man:

I've followed your career for years, from WNNNNNBC, through Kicks/NJ 101.5, and all the rest, down to your time at WJRZ. And I loved the old DB. It seemed to cover all the bases. I jousted with Susan Bray, and was bigtime into Evil Irv. And I share your opinion. Rush, in addition to being 'right,' is a great showman. My late mother, lifelong Jersey City democrat, had enough when Obama was elected. On the way to medical appointments, she would say, "Put Rush on." Trust me, this was a BIG step for Mom. And she enjoyed him! He's a powerful voice in the syndicated world. But, you need to wrap that with live and local, and 'PHT doesn't do that, until 6 PM, with Giordano. And, contrary to popular belief here on the boards, Philly ain't that liberal. The Reagan/Rizzo Democrats are alive and well in South Philly, Manayunk and Roxborough.

Liberal talk fails because many liberals are so damned angry. And WKXW is the model for a successful, live, local talk operation. Costs money to run, and evidently makes Milennium money. The old adage, "it takes money to make money" still applies.

 

[Slant]

poor management is the problem. The station is pretty much being programmed by the GSM. The last PD thought of WPHT as an after thought and was more concerned with WYSP. The current PD who was a left over APD is really good at scheduling weekend infomercials but has no business running the programming. The station needs a good PD that can work effectively with sales and think outside of the box to generate revenue without destroying the product. The imaging on the station is awful and the station fails to connect with the community. This is a direct result of a poor program director. When you have your news director hosting weekend infomercial shows, you have a major problem. With what is going on in politics RIGHT NOW WPHT should be trending up, not down. They should bring Grace Blazer back

 

[jerry367]

To be honest, I will never understand how ANYONE can listen every day to show after show where the opinions are the same and are ALL predictable. With exception to Smerconish, the station is an echo chamber, fit for people incapable of critical thought.

I wish more stations like this would tank. Maybe we'll get more interesting and unpredictable talk. God knows the format could use an influx of normal people as listeners..

Your opinion, to which you are entitled, still, in America.

Smerconish, an Obama supporter, obviously fits your political views more than the rest of the 'PHT lineup.

And just how do YOU define 'normal?' Someone who agrees with the Left? The format had such a network, Air America. Note the 'had.' Went belly up, made no money. No listeners. Guess not enough 'normal' people were interested.

As ususal, when anyone dares criticize "all-conservative all-the-time", it MUST be because they're a LIB!!!! That's the kind of shallow thinking that garners many-a-talk station an audience these days, so you're far from alone.

What I ACTUALLY said was that WPHT is an echo chamber with the exception of Smerconish. I never said I'm into his show, I just pointed out that it's the ONLY thing on the station that isn't a mere echo of everything else. And thank God for that!

Fact is, I do not prefer a liberal over a conservative. I like both ends and everything in between---WHEN THEY'RE INTERESTING! A great many hosts are boring and predictable. You get the feeling they're following a script. It's mind-numbing!

Again, I just don't understand how anyone LIBERAL OR CONSERVATIVE can suspend critical thought and HONESTY to the point where they're comfortable listening to a radio station that's just a glorified echo chamber.

 

[Rusty Muck]

I stand corrected on WPHT's top-of-the-hour news. A few years ago WPHT ran Fox and WNTP ran Salem news but I guess 990 is now Fox and 1210 is now CBS.

1210 has alway run CBS news. They are a CBS O&O. They have alway run CBS news exclusively through their entire 53 year history owned & operated by CBS. WCAU/WOGL/WGMP/WPHT, (And since even before 1957 when they were purchased by CBS). They have never run and never will run FOX news.

While 6+ numbers are not what WPHT may sell to advertisers, the fact that co-owned KYW has three times the listeners WPHT has, and co-owned WIP has 1 1/2 times the listeners, is still a fair comparison. If you're #19 in a given market and you're on AM, I can assure you, you're not in the top 5 25-54 and probably not in the top 10 in that demo, the one most talk stations care about.

Uh, no, that is not an accurate or a 'fair' comparison. (Except, perhaps maybe to a novice). It is all about specific and cumulative demographic targets. Lumping everything 6+ simply doesn't define the story.....This has been a recording.

WPHT did run Fox News at the top of the hour for a short while during the day. I forget when but, I was surprised to hear it when I did.

IIRC, it was around 2003 or 2004... when Fox News was still produced and distributed by WW1, then a corporate sister to CBS (it replaced the otherwise non-existent "NBC Radio News," which CBS produced at that point, back in 2003). Fox eventually started its' own production and distribution service in 2005, which Premiere partially handles for them.

So that might make some sense. Regardless, the 1210 AM frequency (WCAU/WOGL/WGMP/WPTS/WPHT) has been a charter CBS affiliate (and subsequent O&O) since 1927.

 

[wcradio2]

Speaking of WPHT and how they are perceived, and brokered shows etc... everything that has been mentioned above... Did anyone notice the commercial for what I guess is a brokered weekend financial show on 'pht broadcast during the Olympic opening ceremonies? On NBC 10.
Was that just on Comcast? I'm not complaining or anything. I was just amazed to see it. At least twice!

 

[smedge2006]

Liberal talk fails because many liberals are so damned angry. And WKXW is the model for a successful, live, local talk operation. Costs money to run, and evidently makes Milennium money. The old adage, "it takes money to make money" still applies.

I wish conservatives would choose one "explanation" as to why liberal talk "fails" and stick to it. During Air America's heyday I heard "liberal talk fails because the liberal hosts are angry and not entertaining" and ALSO that "they are too entertaining and don't spend enough time being serious!"

Let's be honest, these after-the-fact "explanations" don't really explain anything and are just meant to provide a neat, compact theory that fits the explainer's preconceptions and prejudices. Like the explanation that Rush Limbaugh became a success because the Fairness Doctrine was repealed a year before he went on the air. If you think talk radio PD's were sitting there worried about the FD in 1986, you either weren't anywhere near the radio biz in '86 or you're blinded by ideology.

 

[kayakker]

I heard that snake oil salesman this morning around 7:30 hawking his book and telling people to buy about 7 or 8 supplements for diabetes.

They can't get anything else to play on a Sunday morning??

Speaking of WPHT and how they are perceived, and brokered shows etc... everything that has been mentioned above... Did anyone notice the commercial for what I guess is a brokered weekend financial show on 'pht broadcast during the Olympic opening ceremonies? On NBC 10.
Was that just on Comcast? I'm not complaining or anything. I was just amazed to see it. At least twice!

 

[DToTheJ]

Kayakker: I believe the poster you quoted was referring to Steve Cordasco, the financial host who has a little bit of "right-winger" in him. His "Big Money Show" (btw how creative of a title) airs Saturdays 7-10 AM and Sundays 6-7 AM. (Is he even live on Sunday mornings?) The person you hear this morning in the 7 AM hour must have been Paul Perrillo. Then at 8 AM, Sunday with Sinatra kicks in. I'm sure Ol' Blue Eyes is looking down and hesitant to be grateful for the great lead-in programming on Sunday mornings for his show...

 

[MikefromDelaware]

If they pay they play. What might serve the community better and still pull in money on Sunday mornings would be selling those times to local Philly churches. WDEL does that in Wilmington and has an entire morning full of paid local church services till around noon.

 

[kayakker]

agreed.. even Sid Mark hawks that resq CRAP-- but it makes sense given the demo of most of his audience ( not all)

Kayakker: I believe the poster you quoted was referring to Steve Cordasco, the financial host who has a little bit of "right-winger" in him. His "Big Money Show" (btw how creative of a title) airs Saturdays 7-10 AM and Sundays 6-7 AM. (Is he even live on Sunday mornings?) The person you hear this morning in the 7 AM hour must have been Paul Perrillo. Then at 8 AM, Sunday with Sinatra kicks in. I'm sure Ol' Blue Eyes is looking down and hesitant to be grateful for the great lead-in programming on Sunday mornings for his show...