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WPOR cans Joe Lerman
- Thread starter Underminer
- Start date
J
Jimc
Guest
they had an ad looking for a replacement.
Knowing how cheap they are, the ad probably ran on the air.
In the wise, wise words of CP: "Hey listen, you're lucky to have a job. Do you know how many people would work here for next to nothing?" I guess we'll soon find out.
"Yeah, but the people who will work for free have no talent or work ethic!"
"Yeah, and ... your point being ... ?"
"Yeah, and ... your point being ... ?"
Radiothis! -- Lots of people who work for 'free' have lots of talent and work ethic. Look at stations like community station WERU 89.9 in Blue Hill. All on air talent are volunteers and work for 'free'. Many are learning, true, but many are very talented and all have a great work ethic. In fact, if someone works in radio for 'free' they likely have a much high work ethic because they enjoy it and perform their job at a high competency level. WERU is coming up on its 23rd anniversary and is doing quite well--in fact their new transmitter for the Bangor area is now on the air. Speaks well of talented non-paid people.
amguy--Well, what are you waiting for? Cary wants to hear from you--NOW!!
AMGuy: With all due respect, I think you missed my point entirely.
WERU is a non-profit community station. WPOR is a top-rated commercial station. There is a huge difference.
I AM a volunteer at two different community stations. I started at another. I managed yet another. I recognize the value and the hard work of all those stations' volunteers. But the volunteers at WERU are just that, volunteers. Presumably they have other jobs or incomes. Great. Maybe some are talented folks who decided they make better money working as an accountant. Maybe others just love radio - but also love being a doctor. Maybe some are skilled radio tradespeople who are retired but want to keep a foot "in-the-biz." Maybe others work for free so they can gain experience to get a foothold elsewhere. Great.
But someone working at WPOR already has experience. They've probably worked for free elsewhere. Working at a commercial station isn't a leisure or learning activity. Between show prep, voiceovers, production work and live appearances, they barely have time for a couple low paying DJ gigs, let alone a part-time shift at the local Hannaford. Working at WPOR isn't just a way to gain experience. It is real life. Staff there have real bills. They have a real family. They're doing this for a living. Which means they need a paycheck.
Frankly, the hard work of the on-air talent at WPOR (or wherever) guarantees that the owner is getting a paycheck, that the sales staff is getting a paycheck, that the promotions staff is getting a paycheck, that the lowly production assistant is getting a paycheck. So you know what? They shouldn't have to work for free. And if they are willing to work for free at a top rated commercial station, frankly, they're probably not that good at their job - or they don't have a choice because somebody else (who probably isn't that good) is willing to work for free.
The fact that certain owners exploit this (hey, nobody goes into radio to make a decent wage, but there is a big difference between decent and poverty) is sad. I worked at WPOR. I loved it. I left on my own accord because you know what - this is real life. I had real bills to pay.
Now I'm one of those guys who works for free at a community station. And again, I agree: there's a lot of talented people here. Talented, smart people, some of whom would be a lot happier doing radio full-time. But they never will, because the benefits at a community radio station are better than the commercial one. And by that, I mean their talents are respected. Everyone wishes they could pay them something, but everyone knows they can't afford it.
In the Saga world, every manager wants to pay them nothing, and doesn't think they deserve much more.
WERU is a non-profit community station. WPOR is a top-rated commercial station. There is a huge difference.
I AM a volunteer at two different community stations. I started at another. I managed yet another. I recognize the value and the hard work of all those stations' volunteers. But the volunteers at WERU are just that, volunteers. Presumably they have other jobs or incomes. Great. Maybe some are talented folks who decided they make better money working as an accountant. Maybe others just love radio - but also love being a doctor. Maybe some are skilled radio tradespeople who are retired but want to keep a foot "in-the-biz." Maybe others work for free so they can gain experience to get a foothold elsewhere. Great.
But someone working at WPOR already has experience. They've probably worked for free elsewhere. Working at a commercial station isn't a leisure or learning activity. Between show prep, voiceovers, production work and live appearances, they barely have time for a couple low paying DJ gigs, let alone a part-time shift at the local Hannaford. Working at WPOR isn't just a way to gain experience. It is real life. Staff there have real bills. They have a real family. They're doing this for a living. Which means they need a paycheck.
Frankly, the hard work of the on-air talent at WPOR (or wherever) guarantees that the owner is getting a paycheck, that the sales staff is getting a paycheck, that the promotions staff is getting a paycheck, that the lowly production assistant is getting a paycheck. So you know what? They shouldn't have to work for free. And if they are willing to work for free at a top rated commercial station, frankly, they're probably not that good at their job - or they don't have a choice because somebody else (who probably isn't that good) is willing to work for free.
The fact that certain owners exploit this (hey, nobody goes into radio to make a decent wage, but there is a big difference between decent and poverty) is sad. I worked at WPOR. I loved it. I left on my own accord because you know what - this is real life. I had real bills to pay.
Now I'm one of those guys who works for free at a community station. And again, I agree: there's a lot of talented people here. Talented, smart people, some of whom would be a lot happier doing radio full-time. But they never will, because the benefits at a community radio station are better than the commercial one. And by that, I mean their talents are respected. Everyone wishes they could pay them something, but everyone knows they can't afford it.
In the Saga world, every manager wants to pay them nothing, and doesn't think they deserve much more.
Radiothis!: Excellent post! Very articulate and your points are well made and very valid. My earlier post was only based on the brief comment in your previous post that "...people who will work for free have no talent or work ethic!" Your follow-up was very good and presented the current radio situation very well, for both commercial and community radio. I appreciate your well-spoken clarification.
C
choicevoicepro.com
Guest
Radio This: In your post you twice assert that WPOR has asked talent work for free… or “nothing.”
If what you mean is that they (Saga) pay below what the government has decided is an acceptable minimum wage, you’d be wrong.
If what you mean is that the company pays below market average for talent, you’d be wrong there too.
But let’s begin with what you think is a “fair wage.” Is it close to the average household income in Maine of 35,000? Or do you deserve more?
And by what criteria are you judging that a radio employee deserves more than what you were paid at POR? Is it based on the profitability of the radio station or company? And if that’s the case are you willing to take less in the event that the station or company makes less in any given year?
Give me a number… then put together a budget that works for the Portland market.
I’d be curious to see if you can make it work… then tell me how many spots - at an average of $40.00 per spot (and that may be generous for the market) do you have to run to make a profit?
Now let’s figure in cost of electricity to run the transmitters… (About 38,000 grand a year for one transmitter) the fees to BMI and ASCAP (in the 40 to 50,000 range for stations with ratings) … oh and speaking of ratings – what’s an Arbitron subscription cost for Portland these days? 40G’s? Insurance? Equipment upgrades? Matching contributions to full time benefits? Company contribution to health benefits? Money for contests and promotions?
I’m sorry but I think your view comes from the sense of some sort of entitlement… and is not at all based in reality.
If Portland were a top ten market, your assertions might be correct – it isn’t. Portland is market #168 and there are economic realities tied to that number.
This opinion doesn’t come from a suit – it comes from a former major market talent and now successful business owner… And unlike AMGUY, I’m not going to laud you with praise for your post… because while it may not have been your intent, I think your comments were demeaning to the people that still work at POR – as if somehow you were just smarter or more talented than the people that work on Western Avenue.
If what you mean is that they (Saga) pay below what the government has decided is an acceptable minimum wage, you’d be wrong.
If what you mean is that the company pays below market average for talent, you’d be wrong there too.
But let’s begin with what you think is a “fair wage.” Is it close to the average household income in Maine of 35,000? Or do you deserve more?
And by what criteria are you judging that a radio employee deserves more than what you were paid at POR? Is it based on the profitability of the radio station or company? And if that’s the case are you willing to take less in the event that the station or company makes less in any given year?
Give me a number… then put together a budget that works for the Portland market.
I’d be curious to see if you can make it work… then tell me how many spots - at an average of $40.00 per spot (and that may be generous for the market) do you have to run to make a profit?
Now let’s figure in cost of electricity to run the transmitters… (About 38,000 grand a year for one transmitter) the fees to BMI and ASCAP (in the 40 to 50,000 range for stations with ratings) … oh and speaking of ratings – what’s an Arbitron subscription cost for Portland these days? 40G’s? Insurance? Equipment upgrades? Matching contributions to full time benefits? Company contribution to health benefits? Money for contests and promotions?
I’m sorry but I think your view comes from the sense of some sort of entitlement… and is not at all based in reality.
If Portland were a top ten market, your assertions might be correct – it isn’t. Portland is market #168 and there are economic realities tied to that number.
This opinion doesn’t come from a suit – it comes from a former major market talent and now successful business owner… And unlike AMGUY, I’m not going to laud you with praise for your post… because while it may not have been your intent, I think your comments were demeaning to the people that still work at POR – as if somehow you were just smarter or more talented than the people that work on Western Avenue.
Here's a question.What is the benefit to SAGA to have some of their stations in HD considering the econonmic times?I believe they have 3 FM's & 2 AM's in HD.How much could they save by turning them off.choicevoicepro.com said:
Hi Tom,
First of all, let's not get into a p***ing match. I think you're a great guy. You do nice stuff for the midcoast. You're incredibly talented. Your career trajectory is impressive and I'm sure you worked many long, underpaid hours to get where you are today.
And of course, I'm certainly not suggesting that anybody who still works at WPOR (or any other Saga station) is an idiot. I'd be insulting people who I still know, drink beers with and care about. I'm sorry if that was the takeaway anyone pulled from my post.
Truth is, Saga is a savvy company. They weathered the financial collapse far better than any other broadcast owner/operator. I was always impressed at how clearly they defined intern/board op. Many companies abuse interns - I felt PRG was impressively focused on the idea that "if you're doing work we pay other people to do, you should be paid." I was never encouraged, as I've heard from employees at other companies, to shorten my hours or "work for free" at certain events. Hats off in that regard.
As an employee, I received fantastic advice and guidance from my PDs. I am a better air talent because of it, no question. It was obvious that if you worked hard, you would be given new opportunities (to a certain extent, anyway).
All those are compliments towards Saga, PRG and its managers. I have no self-serving interest in complimenting the company. I don't draw a paycheck. I am not the Big Hits voiceover guy. I have no intention of changing my now career path. I'm just a former radio producer who can say plenty of nice things about my former employer.
I stopped working there because when I was offered a big market job, I realized I didn't want it. From there, I realized that commercial radio probably wasn't for me. Look. I don't have any sense of entitlement. I have $50,000 in school loans. I like to travel. I wanted to own a home. Here. In Maine. Radio (at any station) probably wasn't the best career choice. You can only work 80 hours a week for so long. I made choices that couldn't support all of my dreams and I had to chose. I sleep easy with that.
It is easy to play armchair quarterback when looking at radio stations. The reality of radio is: those of who post on this board, by and large, see it as an art form. The reality is: it is no such thing. Companies like Saga aren't entertainment companies or art support systems. They're landlords. If there was money to be made in broadcasting 24/7 white noise, that's what they'd do. And that's okay. Who am I to judge?
All I'm saying is: $7.50 an hour is not a lot of money. It's even further devalued when you're treated poorly (here's a fun story: shortly after announcing a 5%+ pay cut, Saga instituted a business casual dress code for the on-air staff. Many had to go out and buy clothes with their now smaller paycheck). Some people can make that work. I admire those who do. I just wonder the age old wonderment: if radio stations treated talent like valuable assets and not expendable employees, would radio as a whole be a more profitable enterprise?
Maybe yes, maybe no. I'd like to say that's for smarter folk than me to decide, but honestly, I'm not so sure they've bothered to look into it. It's a lot cheaper to say that any employee who asks for more has a bad sense of entitlement. After all - there are some talented people who would work here for free.
First of all, let's not get into a p***ing match. I think you're a great guy. You do nice stuff for the midcoast. You're incredibly talented. Your career trajectory is impressive and I'm sure you worked many long, underpaid hours to get where you are today.
And of course, I'm certainly not suggesting that anybody who still works at WPOR (or any other Saga station) is an idiot. I'd be insulting people who I still know, drink beers with and care about. I'm sorry if that was the takeaway anyone pulled from my post.
Truth is, Saga is a savvy company. They weathered the financial collapse far better than any other broadcast owner/operator. I was always impressed at how clearly they defined intern/board op. Many companies abuse interns - I felt PRG was impressively focused on the idea that "if you're doing work we pay other people to do, you should be paid." I was never encouraged, as I've heard from employees at other companies, to shorten my hours or "work for free" at certain events. Hats off in that regard.
As an employee, I received fantastic advice and guidance from my PDs. I am a better air talent because of it, no question. It was obvious that if you worked hard, you would be given new opportunities (to a certain extent, anyway).
All those are compliments towards Saga, PRG and its managers. I have no self-serving interest in complimenting the company. I don't draw a paycheck. I am not the Big Hits voiceover guy. I have no intention of changing my now career path. I'm just a former radio producer who can say plenty of nice things about my former employer.
I stopped working there because when I was offered a big market job, I realized I didn't want it. From there, I realized that commercial radio probably wasn't for me. Look. I don't have any sense of entitlement. I have $50,000 in school loans. I like to travel. I wanted to own a home. Here. In Maine. Radio (at any station) probably wasn't the best career choice. You can only work 80 hours a week for so long. I made choices that couldn't support all of my dreams and I had to chose. I sleep easy with that.
It is easy to play armchair quarterback when looking at radio stations. The reality of radio is: those of who post on this board, by and large, see it as an art form. The reality is: it is no such thing. Companies like Saga aren't entertainment companies or art support systems. They're landlords. If there was money to be made in broadcasting 24/7 white noise, that's what they'd do. And that's okay. Who am I to judge?
All I'm saying is: $7.50 an hour is not a lot of money. It's even further devalued when you're treated poorly (here's a fun story: shortly after announcing a 5%+ pay cut, Saga instituted a business casual dress code for the on-air staff. Many had to go out and buy clothes with their now smaller paycheck). Some people can make that work. I admire those who do. I just wonder the age old wonderment: if radio stations treated talent like valuable assets and not expendable employees, would radio as a whole be a more profitable enterprise?
Maybe yes, maybe no. I'd like to say that's for smarter folk than me to decide, but honestly, I'm not so sure they've bothered to look into it. It's a lot cheaper to say that any employee who asks for more has a bad sense of entitlement. After all - there are some talented people who would work here for free.
"Bill Fox (FRANK FM)...he's a candidate, as I understand for the WPOR Morning Show."
Yeah, Bill bailed on his Lincoln, Nebraska gig after a few weeks. It would be a HUGE surprise if he got hired by Saga. He is not well-liked in that building, at all.
Yeah, Bill bailed on his Lincoln, Nebraska gig after a few weeks. It would be a HUGE surprise if he got hired by Saga. He is not well-liked in that building, at all.
J
Jimc
Guest
"An update from last week, too: the two-person morning show at WPOR in Portland is only temporary, we're told, and the station continues to look "aggressively" for a replacement for Joe Lerman.
According to Scott Fysbush.
According to Scott Fysbush.
On Friday Bill Fox told AllAccess he is headed back to Maine for family reasons and that he's looking for a new opportunity and gave his contact info yet he already agreed to join the WPOR morning show a week prior to that announcement. I'm wondering if the station in Nebraska knows the truth. As underminer said..."He bailed" then again the station in Nebraska may be greatful he bailed.
J
Jimc
Guest
makes sense..known commodity in the market.
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