A
Art Sutton
Guest
What's the deal with WPTF's ratings? It seems they are way off and keep getting worse?
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WPTF is the poster child of the dying audience - and no promotion to create new audience. And its not just PTF but many stations like it around the country.
Remember when the all instrutmental (beautiful music) format has a license to print money? Worked great for about ten years, but the audience kept getting older and there were no new listeners coming to the format.
Well, the traditional, old-line, news talk stations like WPTF run the risk of going the same way over the next five or six years. Stations of that ilk have to image in a more contemporary fashion, program for a younger audience, and promote themselves to that younger group.
Problem today with the heritage station is that the heritage tarnishes without promotion and a little polish.
I don't get to hear WPTF very often, but the times I do, it seems old and somewhat stale. It wouldn't take much to polish it up, contemporize the sound. Promotion and marketing is another story! Gonna take some money.
Remember when the all instrutmental (beautiful music) format has a license to print money? Worked great for about ten years, but the audience kept getting older and there were no new listeners coming to the format.
Well, the traditional, old-line, news talk stations like WPTF run the risk of going the same way over the next five or six years. Stations of that ilk have to image in a more contemporary fashion, program for a younger audience, and promote themselves to that younger group.
Problem today with the heritage station is that the heritage tarnishes without promotion and a little polish.
I don't get to hear WPTF very often, but the times I do, it seems old and somewhat stale. It wouldn't take much to polish it up, contemporize the sound. Promotion and marketing is another story! Gonna take some money.
T
trag764
Guest
Poster child of the dying audience, huh? Well, WPTF is still the number one rated station in Wake County, which is where all the people coming to this area are moving, and I think that means our audience will grow. Especially with our morning show, now that we have a seasoned professional like Jack Boston hosting it and nobody trying to make it the local version of the Nancy Grace show.
Phil Zachary has a great vision for this place, and even though it is, as he says, the 83 year old voice of North Carolina's State Capitol, old doesn't mean dead. For example, his leadership in showing us the value of being "fair and balanced" when it comes to the issues, like a big school bond coming up for a vote in November. Phil correctly realizes the need for us to not be a right-wing mouthpiece and for our talk shows and news department to not let one side of the issue, in this case the opponents of the bond, dominate the airwaves. We had long been bringing both sides of the issue up on the morning show, and thanks to Phil, the rest of the station will do it, too. That kind of refreshing take in a world of "you have to be conservative on talk radio" people will keep WPTF growing for years to come.
As for our sound, it is plenty good to attract new listeners, and we are not about to abandon the folks who have been listening to us for a long time.
Phil Zachary has a great vision for this place, and even though it is, as he says, the 83 year old voice of North Carolina's State Capitol, old doesn't mean dead. For example, his leadership in showing us the value of being "fair and balanced" when it comes to the issues, like a big school bond coming up for a vote in November. Phil correctly realizes the need for us to not be a right-wing mouthpiece and for our talk shows and news department to not let one side of the issue, in this case the opponents of the bond, dominate the airwaves. We had long been bringing both sides of the issue up on the morning show, and thanks to Phil, the rest of the station will do it, too. That kind of refreshing take in a world of "you have to be conservative on talk radio" people will keep WPTF growing for years to come.
As for our sound, it is plenty good to attract new listeners, and we are not about to abandon the folks who have been listening to us for a long time.
It isn't just about Wake County. WPTF used to be the number one station in the metro! Now they are not. Problem remains the format is aging. It is true for all adult formats. I know Phil is a pretty smart person. Problem is the station imaging is bland and the format in general has a greater appeal to the older demo. it is common to heritage stations that do little to have a younger appeal.
WSJS and WBT face the same problem. While some of the names have changed on these heritage stations, little else has.
None of them have done much in the way of marketing to younger listeners. I'm not talking about kids - but young adults.
And, you would be amazed at the number of people in the 25-54 demo that never heard of any of those stations!
WSJS and WBT face the same problem. While some of the names have changed on these heritage stations, little else has.
None of them have done much in the way of marketing to younger listeners. I'm not talking about kids - but young adults.
And, you would be amazed at the number of people in the 25-54 demo that never heard of any of those stations!
Some radios these days don't have AM. 
The average young person these days won't listen to AM. Most of the MP3-Radio Players young people love so much don't have an AM band. Also young people aren't as politically active. Every election, a big deal is made over the young vote and they don't show up at the polls. If you're a talk outlet, most of the big talk shows deal with politics. The rest is news, finance (for an old audience) and young people today aren't as into the news as you think. Unless something huge happens or impacts them, they won't get excited over it. In fact, on the TV side, broadcast news at 2, 8 and 12 is seeing fewer people tune in, as other forms of media compete for attention. Throw in news websites, forums, chatrooms and blogs, and now there's a new place to hear the news, talk about news and talk about politics. While radio gives you 8 seconds to voice your opinion and lots of time to hear others, the internet gives you a place to share your opinion as long as you wish and back it better. Your blog won't talk over you, run out of time, cut you off and go into commercials. The younger demos are very hard to win on News/Talk.
The average young person these days won't listen to AM. Most of the MP3-Radio Players young people love so much don't have an AM band. Also young people aren't as politically active. Every election, a big deal is made over the young vote and they don't show up at the polls. If you're a talk outlet, most of the big talk shows deal with politics. The rest is news, finance (for an old audience) and young people today aren't as into the news as you think. Unless something huge happens or impacts them, they won't get excited over it. In fact, on the TV side, broadcast news at 2, 8 and 12 is seeing fewer people tune in, as other forms of media compete for attention. Throw in news websites, forums, chatrooms and blogs, and now there's a new place to hear the news, talk about news and talk about politics. While radio gives you 8 seconds to voice your opinion and lots of time to hear others, the internet gives you a place to share your opinion as long as you wish and back it better. Your blog won't talk over you, run out of time, cut you off and go into commercials. The younger demos are very hard to win on News/Talk.So it's just before 2:00 AM and WPtF is the *only* station on the radio giving updates on the fire in Apex.
Say what you will, but I'd say they're doing a fine job. Because, when the only other source of information on the FM dial is the incoherent ramblings of someone on WKNC talking about the fire, while all the other stations are automated or voice tracked until morning, WPTF always has, and always will remain on top.
Say what you will, but I'd say they're doing a fine job. Because, when the only other source of information on the FM dial is the incoherent ramblings of someone on WKNC talking about the fire, while all the other stations are automated or voice tracked until morning, WPTF always has, and always will remain on top.
I have to agree with BS. A co-worker from Apex called me at around 4:30 to tell me about the fire and I cut on WPTF. Those people were on their game and I think they generally do a good job. BTW Xtalker, I am 47 and don't feel like I'm "dying." No issues with 680 here and I know a lot of guys my age who listen religiously.
Unfortunately, 47 is at the high end of the prime demo for advertisers. I am not trying to be cruel, but realistic.
News-Talk station are finding it harder and harder to a attract national advertisers (other than through networks and syndicated shows) because they are not able to attract the younger end of the ket 25-49 demo. 25 year olds just aren't intersted, as Mr. Winston-Salem says.
As for the fire in Apex, it is great that they are covering it even in the middle of the night - but the people we are talking about are asleep and not likely to tune in WPTF or any news station for any reason!
Listen, don't get me wrong - I like WPTF. I like WSJS. I like WBT. I am a news and political junkie, so I listen and enjoy those kinds of stations. But (you knew there was a but), I am also realistic about the broadcasting business and know the reality.
Look at the seemingly unbelievable demise of Oldies stations around the country. Its the same demo. The same problem.
The solution? Not sure there is one. We must all remember that to build, own, and operate a radio station is an expensive proposition. Those who pony up the bucks are entitled to make a return on their investment. If they can't sell it, it will go away!
Specifically for WPTF and its heritage, news-talk, bretheran in the business - you have to clean up the act and start thinking about the younger audience. (Sorry, but if you are over 45, you are less important). Station need to be very careful to not get locked into the image of being for old people. Here are a couple of probelms:
- Financial shows - while they offer valuable advice to listeners, most of them assume you have money and concentrate on being closer to retirement. There is little to offer people who are just starting out in the investment world. Why? Because the people who do these shows do it because it brings them customers - and if you don't have a lot of money, you are not in their target.
- Medical shows (including eye care) - these generally appeal to older audiences and young people have little or nor interest in them.
- Gardening shows and shows featuring florists - again, appealing mostly to the older end of the broad, adult demo of 25-64.
- Politics - Some stations are all politics, all the time. That's not good either. It's fine for the political junkie, but the demos who don't care (even though they should) don't listen.
Maybe it is time for News-Talk to fragment like music formats have done over the years. In some of the larger markets, there are successful FM talk stations that appeal to younger adults.
All you have to do to prove my point is to look at the weekly cume audience - and the share of total radio listening - of these stations. The numbers are declining. It is a slow death, but it is a certain one!
News-Talk station are finding it harder and harder to a attract national advertisers (other than through networks and syndicated shows) because they are not able to attract the younger end of the ket 25-49 demo. 25 year olds just aren't intersted, as Mr. Winston-Salem says.
As for the fire in Apex, it is great that they are covering it even in the middle of the night - but the people we are talking about are asleep and not likely to tune in WPTF or any news station for any reason!
Listen, don't get me wrong - I like WPTF. I like WSJS. I like WBT. I am a news and political junkie, so I listen and enjoy those kinds of stations. But (you knew there was a but), I am also realistic about the broadcasting business and know the reality.
Look at the seemingly unbelievable demise of Oldies stations around the country. Its the same demo. The same problem.
The solution? Not sure there is one. We must all remember that to build, own, and operate a radio station is an expensive proposition. Those who pony up the bucks are entitled to make a return on their investment. If they can't sell it, it will go away!
Specifically for WPTF and its heritage, news-talk, bretheran in the business - you have to clean up the act and start thinking about the younger audience. (Sorry, but if you are over 45, you are less important). Station need to be very careful to not get locked into the image of being for old people. Here are a couple of probelms:
- Financial shows - while they offer valuable advice to listeners, most of them assume you have money and concentrate on being closer to retirement. There is little to offer people who are just starting out in the investment world. Why? Because the people who do these shows do it because it brings them customers - and if you don't have a lot of money, you are not in their target.
- Medical shows (including eye care) - these generally appeal to older audiences and young people have little or nor interest in them.
- Gardening shows and shows featuring florists - again, appealing mostly to the older end of the broad, adult demo of 25-64.
- Politics - Some stations are all politics, all the time. That's not good either. It's fine for the political junkie, but the demos who don't care (even though they should) don't listen.
Maybe it is time for News-Talk to fragment like music formats have done over the years. In some of the larger markets, there are successful FM talk stations that appeal to younger adults.
All you have to do to prove my point is to look at the weekly cume audience - and the share of total radio listening - of these stations. The numbers are declining. It is a slow death, but it is a certain one!
Such thinking as this, when applied to society as a whole, is what has put our grandparents in nursing homes and "assisted living" facilities, outside of the mainstream of society, rather than contributing to family life in these modern times.
The marginalization of the older generation has deprived us of the visiualization of the contributions they still make to society. The sad fact is, that this is happening to people at increasingly younger ages. Two generations ago, Geritol, various laxatives, denture cleansers and other "old-folks" staples were frequently advertised in broadcast media. Now, many media buyers have no idea what these products are used for...much less who to market them to.
The problem is...these are the folks who determine what I am going to listen to on my radio and what I'm going to watch on my television. You know what I call such folks...DUMMIES. They've been given a great opportunity to get to know the diversity of human society, and how to relate to it, but choose to operate in their own limited scope of experience.
I would urge the media buyers that seem to dictate radio formatics these days to take a piece of my advice...spend a day with your grandfather and get to know him and his likes and dislikes before you tell him that your business doesn't care whether or not he's listening to the radio.
I'm probably not nearly as old as your grandfather is, but that's EXACTLY what you're telling me.
Matt Smith
...a grouchy YOUNG man.
The marginalization of the older generation has deprived us of the visiualization of the contributions they still make to society. The sad fact is, that this is happening to people at increasingly younger ages. Two generations ago, Geritol, various laxatives, denture cleansers and other "old-folks" staples were frequently advertised in broadcast media. Now, many media buyers have no idea what these products are used for...much less who to market them to.
The problem is...these are the folks who determine what I am going to listen to on my radio and what I'm going to watch on my television. You know what I call such folks...DUMMIES. They've been given a great opportunity to get to know the diversity of human society, and how to relate to it, but choose to operate in their own limited scope of experience.
I would urge the media buyers that seem to dictate radio formatics these days to take a piece of my advice...spend a day with your grandfather and get to know him and his likes and dislikes before you tell him that your business doesn't care whether or not he's listening to the radio.
I'm probably not nearly as old as your grandfather is, but that's EXACTLY what you're telling me.
Matt Smith
...a grouchy YOUNG man.
It is a systemic problem with the broadcasting business - more interested in ratings and statistical results than reality and real results.
The truth is that people between 50-70 today live a lifestyle more like those of 30-50 of 20 years ago. There are more and more people over 55 with way more disposable income than any previous generation. Problem is, the advertising wizzards of the world haven't figured it out.
This really goes back to a discussion on another thread about the art of selling radio advertising. It really should be about relationships and real results - not ratings and projected results.
The trend of the last few years of one or two stations going All Christmas during the fall book is a prime example. The ratings=projected results crowd would have you believe that the ratings report issued in January reflects today's listening. It, however, reflects a very skewed view of radio listening. The All Christmas stations pick up come in November and December and as soon as the holiday ends, they go right back where they came from! Yet first and second quarter ratings buys are based on the false numbers!
And people wonder why radio revenues struggle!
The truth is that people between 50-70 today live a lifestyle more like those of 30-50 of 20 years ago. There are more and more people over 55 with way more disposable income than any previous generation. Problem is, the advertising wizzards of the world haven't figured it out.
This really goes back to a discussion on another thread about the art of selling radio advertising. It really should be about relationships and real results - not ratings and projected results.
The trend of the last few years of one or two stations going All Christmas during the fall book is a prime example. The ratings=projected results crowd would have you believe that the ratings report issued in January reflects today's listening. It, however, reflects a very skewed view of radio listening. The All Christmas stations pick up come in November and December and as soon as the holiday ends, they go right back where they came from! Yet first and second quarter ratings buys are based on the false numbers!
And people wonder why radio revenues struggle!
Again, with the statistics radio loves so much... research proves an older audience is less likely to try something new. They already have favorites. A favorite brand and place to go for a service. Younger audiences haven't developed these preferences and are more attractive to advertisers.
There are a lot of older people who love to try new things, but research says they are few in number. Also as people age, research shows they want to appear and feel young, so they go after products and services marketed towards a younger audience. I do agree. It is the research and numbers that work against older audiences. Years ago, an older audience was valued for their spending power. Today advertisers research says they must reach the audience before they gain that wealth. Pepsi was a good example of this, with their younger advertising during the days when the older audience was valued. Pepsi was able to close-in on Coca-Cola this way in the early 1980's. Of course it's also worth mentioning that Coke used people's memories to pull ahead again. In my opinion, it's more about the ad agency's talents and abilities than the age group. Clever ad campaigns can reach people of all ages and increase sales without targeting one age and hoping they will become loyal as they get older. We need more "real" talented artists making these 15 & 30 second spots. I don't think we have the same quality of artists working on ads, like we had years ago. I still think the old Coke commercials from the 1960's are better than any soft drinks on the radio today. Coke should redo some of them and reair them. Those ads did work and I think they can still work today for both a young and older audience.
There are a lot of older people who love to try new things, but research says they are few in number. Also as people age, research shows they want to appear and feel young, so they go after products and services marketed towards a younger audience. I do agree. It is the research and numbers that work against older audiences. Years ago, an older audience was valued for their spending power. Today advertisers research says they must reach the audience before they gain that wealth. Pepsi was a good example of this, with their younger advertising during the days when the older audience was valued. Pepsi was able to close-in on Coca-Cola this way in the early 1980's. Of course it's also worth mentioning that Coke used people's memories to pull ahead again. In my opinion, it's more about the ad agency's talents and abilities than the age group. Clever ad campaigns can reach people of all ages and increase sales without targeting one age and hoping they will become loyal as they get older. We need more "real" talented artists making these 15 & 30 second spots. I don't think we have the same quality of artists working on ads, like we had years ago. I still think the old Coke commercials from the 1960's are better than any soft drinks on the radio today. Coke should redo some of them and reair them. Those ads did work and I think they can still work today for both a young and older audience.
C
CCX
Guest
This has been a very interesting thread. I believe that everything is cyclic and that it won't be long before reaching the aging Baby Boomers is heralded as the latest trend in advertising. X-Talker is exactly right that the 45 to 65 (I'm altering that from what he said) demo is like the 35-54 demo was years ago. The Boomers don't want to get old and are remaining involved and curious. They will still try new products and buy new toys, and God knows they have the money! Advertisers can't ignore that kind of buying power forever. As for the AM News/Talk stations reaching younger listeners, I think it's going to be a big problem. Too many younger people get their information from the Internet and wouldn't dream of going to the AM band. Plus, younger people typically just aren't interested in politics. Once again, things can change. All it takes is for some program to hit it big in appealing to them, but right now, I'm afraid that AM News/Talk is indeed going to slowly fade away and that it currently appears there's not a lot they can do about it.
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ghattaway
Guest
CCX...you sure sound like some I know...
C
CCX
Guest
That's entirely possible.
R
rdu
Guest
So the debut of the Jack Boston Show on WPTF was today. The top news stories were North Korea's nuclear test and the aftermath of the chemical fire in Apex. So, what was the first hour of Jack's show about? Butt kissing by the two others in the studio, I think their names are Lisa and Mark, ex-morning host Maury ODell telling jokes about playing golf with Don Curtis, and the softest of softball interviews with the mayor of Apex. At least they dealt with a big story, even though no tough questions were asked, in between the rounds of applause for themselves and Maury, the parody commercials, etc. After an incredible job of covering the breaking Apex story on Friday, this had to be embarrassing for WPTF.
Jack might eventually be a good host, but he needs to lose the caravan. Whoever decided to put Mark and Lisa in front of microphones should be fired.
Jack might eventually be a good host, but he needs to lose the caravan. Whoever decided to put Mark and Lisa in front of microphones should be fired.
G
ghattaway
Guest
Matt,
You said a mouthful. I suspect that the big national companies are gonna soon realize that the segment of our populus with the most disposable income, and the most time on their hands to dispose of it are being totally ignored by the media buyers. I've noticed a large increase in TV ads targeting the boomer generation, and I can't imagine radio's gonna sit back let that money pass them by.
You said a mouthful. I suspect that the big national companies are gonna soon realize that the segment of our populus with the most disposable income, and the most time on their hands to dispose of it are being totally ignored by the media buyers. I've noticed a large increase in TV ads targeting the boomer generation, and I can't imagine radio's gonna sit back let that money pass them by.
Gary,
They'll realize it all right, but it will probably happen when, like us, they're marginalized themselves and can't do anything to change it.
The longer life goes on, the more we see history repeating itself. The same dynamics that removed Grady Cole from WBT in 1961 are removing oldies stations from our radios in 2006.
Later....
Matt Smith
WGSR-TV
They'll realize it all right, but it will probably happen when, like us, they're marginalized themselves and can't do anything to change it.
The longer life goes on, the more we see history repeating itself. The same dynamics that removed Grady Cole from WBT in 1961 are removing oldies stations from our radios in 2006.
Later....
Matt Smith
WGSR-TV
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