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WREF Dead air all day?

I tuned in to 850 around 12:30 this afternoon only to be greeted by a blank carrier. I'm still tuned in and so far there has been no audio of any kind for the last 2 hours.

I called both the jock at sister WDAQ and the main number to let them know, but so far they haven't been able to fix the problem. Satellite feed outage?

-A<P ID="signature">______________
"...How can you be deaf, with ears like that??"</P>
 
WREF Audio returns...

Just now (exactly 4:30pm) the audio returned to WREF. I heard a loud buzz, weak audio, then another loud buzz, and then the audio was back in full swing.

Seems ol' Tom finally got around to fixing the problem.

> I tuned in to 850 around 12:30 this afternoon only to be
> greeted by a blank carrier. I'm still tuned in and so far
> there has been no audio of any kind for the last 2 hours.
>
> I called both the jock at sister WDAQ and the main number to
> let them know, but so far they haven't been able to fix the
> problem. Satellite feed outage?
>
> -A
> <P ID="signature">______________
"...How can you be deaf, with ears like that??"</P>
 
Re: WREF Audio returns...

> Seems ol' Tom finally got around to fixing the problem.

OR Tom has been working on the problem since the original outage and has been unable to get it working until now!
 
Re: WREF Audio returns...

Some people must think that engineers are psychic and should have foreknowledge of ALL break downs and have them fixed in 1 second if the station goes off the air. And they must think that engineers sit right next to the transmitter all day smoking a cigarette and reading the ewspaper just waiting for a mechanical failure. They don't realize the wide spectrum (no pun intended) of duties that engineers have. At alot of stations when the toilet is clogged...you know who gets called? <P ID="signature">______________



</P>
 
Re: WREF Audio returns...

> you know who gets called?
>

I know, I've been called! =)
 
Re: WREF Audio returns...

You guys can call it what you will. The main point of my post was that the station should never have been off-air that long. I know Tom is a busy guy (and that's assuming he hasn't retired yet). For those of you who know who I am talking about, I truly believe Tom is an excellent engineer, one of the best in the Connecticut area especially when it comes to RF.

Problem is that he spreads himself too thin, and is often not available to fix critical problems. I don't put the blame on Tom, though. I put it on Irv. Berkshire Broadcasting should have a standby engineer who can fix problems on their THREE properties when the CE is not available.

AND I blame it on the staff of the three stations, which are located each within 20 feet of each other. The staff I called had no IDEA the station was off the air until I called. A station broadcasting a blank carrier for 5 hours, in this day and age, is just plain unaccceptable.

Don't tell me Tom was busy unplugging the toilet because that is bullshit and it only shows you don't know what you are talking about. The building is staffed with people who perform those tasks, and I believe their official title is "Custodial Engineer," CE for short (heh). There isn't a single restroom located within the suite of WLAD/WDAQ/WREF, and I don't believe for a second that Tom would put up with a call like that.

No hard feelings guys, but you're just wrong. It wasn't meant as an insult to anyone, especially all of my fellow engineers I respect so much.

> > you know who gets called?
> >
>
> I know, I've been called! =)
> <P ID="signature">______________
"...How can you be deaf, with ears like that??"</P>
 
Re: WREF Audio returns...

> Don't tell me Tom was busy unplugging the toilet because
> that is bullshit and it only shows you don't know what you
> are talking about. The building is staffed with people who
> perform those tasks, and I believe their official title is
> "Custodial Engineer," CE for short (heh). There isn't a
> single restroom located within the suite of WLAD/WDAQ/WREF,
> and I don't believe for a second that Tom would put up with
> a call like that.

I don't know what I'm talking about??? HA! Okay...keep telling yourself that.

I didn't say Tom was busy unplugging a toilet...BUT I am suggesting that it is a viable reason, especially if there was an "overflow" problem that could cause serious water damage...but in any case it was a hypothetical, not actual reason. So calm down.

I have worked for some pretty big companies...Citadel, Jacor, Simmons, Lotus...and not a single one had a "full time Custodial Engineer". As a matter of fact, none of the custodians were qualified to officially handle plumbing concerns. If we had a clogged toilet, and the Engineer wasn't readily available (not busy with important matters) we called a plumber. I mean, really, asking a P/T-er who takes the trash out and cleans the toilets to solve a plumbing issue??? These people usually aren't in until the office closes anyway. Some of them are through temp services too..so...you figure it out.

Please name me ONE station with a full time..even part time "custodial engineer" who handles plumbing issues...If I was a gambling man I'd say there isn't one and that the "Chief Engineer", or his Assistant, would be the one responsible.

I'm not insulting the engineers either. TX knows what I'm talking about. <P ID="signature">______________



</P>
 
Re: WREF Audio returns...

> You guys can call it what you will. The main point of my
> post was that the station should never have been off-air
> that long. I know Tom is a busy guy (and that's assuming he
> hasn't retired yet). For those of you who know who I am
> talking about, I truly believe Tom is an excellent engineer,
> one of the best in the Connecticut area especially when it
> comes to RF.

Tom is a friend of mine and yes, I am well aware he is a very busy person.
In fact I'll bet that if Tom hasn't read this yet, he will soon!

> Problem is that he spreads himself too thin, and is often
> not available to fix critical problems. I don't put the
> blame on Tom, though. I put it on Irv. Berkshire
> Broadcasting should have a standby engineer who can fix
> problems on their THREE properties when the CE is not
> available.

They are lucky they even have ONE engineer, when so many smaller groups now use contract or out of market guys. They are lucky to have who they have. Hoping to have a "backup" guy is like saying "gee I hope I have a backup car in case my primary dies". It doesn't happen in smaller stations and smaller markets.

> called. A station broadcasting a blank carrier for 5 hours,
> in this day and age, is just plain unaccceptable.

It might be "unacceptable" in your eyes, and yes, I do tend to agree that it isn't good, but SOMETIMES, things are beyond the scope of a five minute repair.
I know, I have been there. ( I once had a station off the air for 45 minutes due to a microwave failure that we couldn't resolve immediatley... the longest part was getting to the TX site in the middle of the thunderstorm across flooded roads). However you do NOT know the circumstances of the outage, nor do you know all the factors behind it to make a statement like that.

> Don't tell me Tom was busy unplugging the toilet because
> that is bullshit and it only shows you don't know what you
> are talking about.

OK, "Turntable", you apparently don't know what YOU are talking about in that comment. You do not know who I am, what my background is, nor what my experience is. Before you start accusing me of not knowing what I am talking about, how about looking at the entire picture...

> The building is staffed with people who
> perform those tasks, and I believe their official title is
> "Custodial Engineer," CE for short (heh).

Really? That would be one of the ONLY stations in the entire STATE of Connecticut, Television included, who has a Janitor. All the ones I've ever been to and seen don't have a real janitor. (Yes they have cleaning crews, but not real custodians).

> There isn't a
> single restroom located within the suite of WLAD/WDAQ/WREF,
> and I don't believe for a second that Tom would put up with
> a call like that.
>
> No hard feelings guys, but you're just wrong. It wasn't
> meant as an insult to anyone, especially all of my fellow
> engineers I respect so much.

Apparently you don't respect them as much as you might think. You've made several comments to your "fellow engineers" which were very disrespectful.
Now let me clarify something here... you took what was said entirely out of context.

No one EVER said that Tom was busy unclogging a toilet to fix the problem. Those words NEVER came out of CABs mouth and they most certanly did not come out of mine. In fact, if you go back and re-read the whole thing without your hot headed mentality, you would notice that what we did say was the modern day chief engineer has to deal with EVERYTHING from the transmitter to the toilet. In other words he has a ton on his plate. It did NOT mean that he was busy fixing the damned toilet. No one else read it that way.


You need to step back and re-read things before making a "shot gun" response like that. You might see that in fact you were the one who was wrong, not us.

ok rant mode off, back to civility
 
Re: WREF Audio returns...

Ok, so I misunderstood what you guys were saying and went off half-cocked. While the "You don't know what you are talking about" comment I made was uncalled for and rude, it was also not intended to insult your knowledge. All I meant was, I happen to know that facility pretty well from memory. The toilet's down the hall, and the building that houses the studios of all three stations is city-owned, fully staffed with custodians, cleaning personnel and security people. But the toilet unclogging thing wasn't the main point...

All I'm saying is, there is simply no reason for a station to be pumping out dead air for 4 or 5 hours. I think that rather than this being an engineering problem, per se, it is more of an airstaff problem. You have an on air jock in the FM studio (who as I recall is supposed to record the weather into the automation system every so often,) and a board op on WLAD. Nobody noticed there was no audio getting from the board to the transmitter until I called and told them?? Maybe they should have a silence detector, or fixed off-air monitoring (why do people insist on monitoring in program, anyway??).

Tom does work out of market alot. The guy handles alot of stations, and sure, why not have a standby-guy to handle these things? You're right, I don't know all the facts in the situation, but I would be willing to bet Tom was somewhere else at the time of the outage and therefore was unable to make repairs until he could get there.

Sorry to ruffle your feathers guys. No insult intended.

-a

> > Don't tell me Tom was busy unplugging the toilet
> because
> > that is bullshit and it only shows you don't know what you
>
> > are talking about. The building is staffed with people who
>
> > perform those tasks, and I believe their official title is
>
> > "Custodial Engineer," CE for short (heh). There isn't a
> > single restroom located within the suite of
> WLAD/WDAQ/WREF,
> > and I don't believe for a second that Tom would put up
> with
> > a call like that.
>
> I don't know what I'm talking about??? HA! Okay...keep
> telling yourself that.
>
> I didn't say Tom was busy unplugging a toilet...BUT I am
> suggesting that it is a viable reason, especially if there
> was an "overflow" problem that could cause serious water
> damage...but in any case it was a hypothetical, not actual
> reason. So calm down.
>
> I have worked for some pretty big companies...Citadel,
> Jacor, Simmons, Lotus...and not a single one had a "full
> time Custodial Engineer". As a matter of fact, none of the
> custodians were qualified to officially handle plumbing
> concerns. If we had a clogged toilet, and the Engineer
> wasn't readily available (not busy with important matters)
> we called a plumber. I mean, really, asking a P/T-er who
> takes the trash out and cleans the toilets to solve a
> plumbing issue??? These people usually aren't in until the
> office closes anyway. Some of them are through temp services
> too..so...you figure it out.
>
> Please name me ONE station with a full time..even part time
> "custodial engineer" who handles plumbing issues...If I was
> a gambling man I'd say there isn't one and that the "Chief
> Engineer", or his Assistant, would be the one responsible.
>
> I'm not insulting the engineers either. TX knows what I'm
> talking about.
> <P ID="signature">______________
"...How can you be deaf, with ears like that??"</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Turntable on 08/11/05 11:32 AM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: WREF Audio returns... will civility?

I'm about as familiar with Berkshire Broadcasting's world HQ as anyone, but that's not the point. Placing blame is in itself a pointless exercise. The conscientious ones start getting tainted attitudes while the lousy employees learn to shrug off being in trouble again. On the other hand, you can have the backup plans, redundancies and emergency numbers ready and still run into the unexpected or something not in the budget.

The only thing unacceptable is not learning from experience. How can we avoid this happening again? Solutions, not blame, get you to the next level. No one's focused here... or in much of radio... on this.
 
Re: WREF Audio returns... will civility?

In his last post Turntable asked why people insist on listening to the monitor in "program" as opposed to "on air". Again, every station I have worked at had the board set to monitor "on air". How is your station set up?

And I guess what Turntable is saying is that the station was off for a long time becasue no one noticed, not that it was because the engineer was too busy. Of course, if the station had already been off for 2 hours, and the engineer got entrenched in a more serious problem elsewhere...then they would just have to wait their turn. And something else to consider...with many station having contract engineers, if there are many issues at once, the station making the least amount of money is usually the last to get fixed (unless it is just a matter of calling the TX and turning it backon...)

If it truely was a case of "No one at the station was listening"...apparently there weren't many listeners that noticed either, or they just didn't care enough to call the station. That doen't nullify the fact that SOMEONE should have noticed though.

When I worked at group stations, whether it was my responsibility or not, I would take a walk to each studio and take a listen. Even when we were fully staffed, if a jock needed a potty break, it was always good practice to check his/her studio briefly. Back then, cd's were still in the habit of sk..sk..skipping etc. So, we backed each other up.

In todays radio world, the companies are trying to get away with paying as little as possible for bodies in the building. This results in people who have the "I'm not paid to do that" attitude. In other words, the jock down the hall might be required to load in a weather break or something, but maybe it's done directly from the prod room and he doesn't have to go into the studio. So he never does. (Just another scenerio there, I'm not sayingthat's what happened...)

To solve the problem: Number one, those responsible for hiring need to have a training checklist that needs to be covered by the "training jock/board op". A list of "shift duties" should be posted, so if there is a newbie, he/she can get into the habit of following those duties. Oneof which would require checking up on the sister stations. Also as Turntable mentioned, a silence alarm would be nice, but maybe it's not in the budget...

This is a good topic to cover.



> I'm about as familiar with Berkshire Broadcasting's world HQ
> as anyone, but that's not the point. Placing blame is in
> itself a pointless exercise. The conscientious ones start
> getting tainted attitudes while the lousy employees learn to
> shrug off being in trouble again. On the other hand, you
> can have the backup plans, redundancies and emergency
> numbers ready and still run into the unexpected or something
> not in the budget.
>
> The only thing unacceptable is not learning from experience.
> How can we avoid this happening again? Solutions, not
> blame, get you to the next level. No one's focused here...
> or in much of radio... on this.
>
<P ID="signature">______________



</P>
 
Re: WREF Audio returns...

> All I'm saying is, there is simply no reason for a station
> to be pumping out dead air for 4 or 5 hours. I think that
> rather than this being an engineering problem, per se, it is
> more of an airstaff problem. You have an on air jock in the
> FM studio (who as I recall is supposed to record the weather
> into the automation system every so often,) and a board op
> on WLAD. Nobody noticed there was no audio getting from the
> board to the transmitter until I called and told them??
> Maybe they should have a silence detector, or fixed off-air
> monitoring (why do people insist on monitoring in program,
> anyway??).


Well seeing that you don't work there...how can you go and make all these assumptions...and you're wrong about the FM jock recording the weather for REF...doesn't happen....
 
Re: WREF Audio returns... will civility?

Thanks Cab, and again, sorry if I ruffled some feathers earlier...

To answer your question, when I worked for the cluster the WLAD board was a PR&E Radiomixer-24, and the WDAQ was a 12. WREF was using an old Harris Medallion 80, as was Bart Busterna's studio/office as well as all of the production studios. Also, to clarify, the TX was on the air but was not being modulated. No ID's, no nothing. When I called the FM jock, she was surprised, and when I called the business office an hour-and-a-half later, that lady was even more surprised. Nobody had any idea that the STL was out until I called. By the time the CE (or telco) was called, the station had been out of commission for hours. I have no idea how long it was off before I tuned in.

At WLAD, the air receiver was a Sony AM-Stereo car radio running on an el-cheapo 12v supply. It may have been a Micronta from ShadioRack, but don't quote me on it. Air, program, and the various air and production studios could have been monitored from AM control and even patched through the board and put on-air. There were a few people who monitored in program during their shifts. I preferred the AM-Stereo air signal, which not only sounded great, but also allowed me to know whether the station was on the air or not. Back then, believe it or not "Radio Rock Chick," you had to take readings manually and you also had to hold a radiotelephone license. I still have mine.

Oh, and "Radio Rock Chick" or whatever you call yourself-- I suppose you're doing overnights on 98Q or whatever... For your information, I did work there, but it was a long time ago-- about 10 years ago. Things may and probably have changed, which is why I made the statement "IF I RECALL".

About two years after I started there, WREF had just been acquired by Berkshire, and there was talk of swapping calls with WLAD to get the 2500w daytime ERP instead of the 1KW day/286W night that is WLAD. There were calls from the bronx and beyond, congratulating us on the signal after Tom O. rebuilt the WREF TX site after it was acquired. At the time, they were running ABC oldies off the bird.

At that time, the WREF control room was almost directly across from the WDAQ studio, in what used to be the news production studio (between the newsbooth and AM Production). The FM jock on duty had to go into the control room and update the weather on the automation system every so often. So aparently, it has changed since then. Big Whoop.

So, Radio Rock Chick, don't be so quick to snap at me. I do know what I am talking about, even if my information is a bit out of date. I've toned it down, why don't you? Rational discussions are always more fun. Thanks.

Oh,one more thing:

"...Berkshire Broadcasting's world HQ..." That's really quite hillarious! Wish I had thought of it...


-A

> In his last post Turntable asked why people insist on
> listening to the monitor in "program" as opposed to "on
> air". Again, every station I have worked at had the board
> set to monitor "on air". How is your station set up?
>
> And I guess what Turntable is saying is that the station was
> off for a long time becasue no one noticed, not that it was
> because the engineer was too busy. Of course, if the station
> had already been off for 2 hours, and the engineer got
> entrenched in a more serious problem elsewhere...then they
> would just have to wait their turn. And something else to
> consider...with many station having contract engineers, if
> there are many issues at once, the station making the least
> amount of money is usually the last to get fixed (unless it
> is just a matter of calling the TX and turning it backon...)
>
>
> If it truely was a case of "No one at the station was
> listening"...apparently there weren't many listeners that
> noticed either, or they just didn't care enough to call the
> station. That doen't nullify the fact that SOMEONE should
> have noticed though.
>
> When I worked at group stations, whether it was my
> responsibility or not, I would take a walk to each studio
> and take a listen. Even when we were fully staffed, if a
> jock needed a potty break, it was always good practice to
> check his/her studio briefly. Back then, cd's were still in
> the habit of sk..sk..skipping etc. So, we backed each other
> up.
>
> In todays radio world, the companies are trying to get away
> with paying as little as possible for bodies in the
> building. This results in people who have the "I'm not paid
> to do that" attitude. In other words, the jock down the hall
> might be required to load in a weather break or something,
> but maybe it's done directly from the prod room and he
> doesn't have to go into the studio. So he never does. (Just
> another scenerio there, I'm not sayingthat's what
> happened...)
>
> To solve the problem: Number one, those responsible for
> hiring need to have a training checklist that needs to be
> covered by the "training jock/board op". A list of "shift
> duties" should be posted, so if there is a newbie, he/she
> can get into the habit of following those duties. Oneof
> which would require checking up on the sister stations. Also
> as Turntable mentioned, a silence alarm would be nice, but
> maybe it's not in the budget...
>
> This is a good topic to cover.
>
>
>
> > I'm about as familiar with Berkshire Broadcasting's world
> HQ
> > as anyone, but that's not the point. Placing blame is in
> > itself a pointless exercise. The conscientious ones start
>
> > getting tainted attitudes while the lousy employees learn
> to
> > shrug off being in trouble again. On the other hand, you
> > can have the backup plans, redundancies and emergency
> > numbers ready and still run into the unexpected or
> something
> > not in the budget.
> >
> > The only thing unacceptable is not learning from
> experience.
> > How can we avoid this happening again? Solutions, not
> > blame, get you to the next level. No one's focused

> here...
> > or in much of radio... on this.
> >
> <P ID="signature">______________
"...How can you be deaf, with ears like that??"</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Turntable on 08/11/05 07:50 PM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: WREF Audio returns... will civility?

> Back then, believe it or not "Radio Rock Chick," you
> had to take readings manually and you also had to hold a
> radiotelephone license. I still have mine.

I know all about that stuff...i'm not the youngin you think i am....


> Oh, and "Radio Rock Chick" or whatever you call yourself-- I
> suppose you're doing overnights on 98Q or whatever... For
> your information, I did work there, but it was a long time
> ago-- about 10 years ago. Things may and probably have
> changed, which is why I made the statement "IF I RECALL".
>

Well...ya shoulda made mention that you worked here...and if you were such an avid REF listener, you woulda noticed that we don't do the weather for them anymore...and I've been in the biz way to long to just be doing overnights...
if you had said yea, i used to work there, woulda been different...but then again....best to leave well enuf alone...just know that i'm not being snippy.



So, Radio Rock Chick, don't be so quick to snap at me. I do
> know what I am talking about, even if my information is a
> bit out of date. I've toned it down, why don't you? Rational
> discussions are always more fun. Thanks.
>

And I didnt snap at you...i asked a question...and just corrected your information...trust me, you woulda known if i snapped....
 
Re: WREF Audio returns... will civility?

Well, that's a lot better! Your editing is a bit selective for my tastes, but now at least you're being more civil, and I like the new you!

In any case, Cab is right-- my point, although I did get kinda nasty and am willing to admit it, is that somebody at 198 main should have known the station was off the air. I'm not a "big 'REF listener," but I do scan the AM dial frequently and I do report outages when I notice them. Tell me, was it you on the air when I called 9898?

> > Back then, believe it or not "Radio Rock Chick," you
> > had to take readings manually and you also had to hold a
> > radiotelephone license. I still have mine.
>
> I know all about that stuff...i'm not the youngin you think
> i am....
>
>
> > Oh, and "Radio Rock Chick" or whatever you call yourself--
> I
> > suppose you're doing overnights on 98Q or whatever... For
> > your information, I did work there, but it was a long time
>
> > ago-- about 10 years ago. Things may and probably have
> > changed, which is why I made the statement "IF I RECALL".
>
> >
>
> Well...ya shoulda made mention that you worked here...and if
> you were such an avid REF listener, you woulda noticed that
> we don't do the weather for them anymore...and I've been in
> the biz way to long to just be doing overnights...
> if you had said yea, i used to work there, woulda been
> different...but then again....best to leave well enuf
> alone...just know that i'm not being snippy.
>
>
>
> So, Radio Rock Chick, don't be so quick to snap at me. I do
>
> > know what I am talking about, even if my information is a
> > bit out of date. I've toned it down, why don't you?
> Rational
> > discussions are always more fun. Thanks.
> >
>
> And I didnt snap at you...i asked a question...and just
> corrected your information...trust me, you woulda known if i
> snapped....
>
<P ID="signature">______________
"...How can you be deaf, with ears like that??"</P>
 
Re: WREF Audio returns...

> All I'm saying is, there is simply no reason for a station
> to be pumping out dead air for 4 or 5 hours. I think that
> rather than this being an engineering problem, per se, it is
> more of an airstaff problem. You have an on air jock in the
> FM studio (who as I recall is supposed to record the weather
> into the automation system every so often,) and a board op
> on WLAD. Nobody noticed there was no audio getting from the
> board to the transmitter until I called and told them??
> Maybe they should have a silence detector, or fixed off-air
> monitoring (why do people insist on monitoring in program,
> anyway??).

I agree with you when it comes to 4-5 hours of dead air. And the listener had to report the problem? When I was a jock we never had no audio for 5 hours. The GM would have been pissed. 5 hours of lost revenue.

What it comes down to is the health of the radio industry. Buy the AM station. Put on syndicated programming. Who cares if we have 5 hours of dead air or two spots running at the same time? We have very little overhead when it comes to employee salaries.
 
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