WREK 100kW update

[bnaivar]

It's not my job to run the train.
The whistle I cannot blow.
It's not my job to say how fast the train can even go.
It's not my job to let off steam.
I can't even ring the bell,
but let the damn thing jump the track and see who catches Hell. ;D

 

[jabba17]

Our existing antenna probably isn't too good on bandwidth, either. It's ancient, and these are notchy antennas, I'm told.
And with 12 bays.... a tiny electrical or physical lean will put the "sheet" of coverage/power over/under our heads. In 30 years, I'm sure it's not perfect. And noone has really checked it in that long, AFAIK.
New antenna in a couple years ought to help, shouldn't it?

As far as going off-campus goes... we need to have something good (not 30 years old) on campus, at least as a backup, so that we're not at the mercy of some other tower owner to stay on the air. We can nail most of this "100kW" of coverage down, as far as the FCC is concerned, from here. It just doesn't make sense today to look at off campus. Maybe five years down the road, when the budgets are less tight, when we've had time to get this built out, and we're ready for more complexity.

No sense in making the future of WREK dependent on contracts that can only last a maximum of a year with four additional renewals before rebidding. The rules for signing contracts like this are not too helpful. It wouldn't be a good thing to leave that kind of complexity as an ongoing problem, I would think.

Do you think Turner might be willing to donate space on the Channel 17 tower? Or could you share WRAS's tower (although it's not anywhere near campus)? Turner has been known to donate gifts-in-kind to GCATT and GPB, although this was before Time Warner entered the picture.

 

[bnaivar]

I was told recently the Turner tower will be coming down after the 2-17-09 digital television conversion.

 

[jabba17]

I was told recently the Turner tower will be coming down after the 2-17-09 digital television conversion.

Yeah, I think I remember hearing that, too. That land has to be worth a fortune. Too bad--it's a nice big stick. I wonder if it would be cost-effective to move it...?

 

[littlejohn]

The CH 17 tower is an interesting setup. As I understand it, Comcast, or whomever they have morphed into, can deman it be removed if/when Turner ceases to telecast from it for 30 days or more. WNNX would never have left the site except for that cloud on the lease. Some five or six years ago, the bid to remove the tower was a flat $1 million. I'd expect it to be substantially higher now.
Given the location, the tower has to be disassembled and lowered one piece at a time. The uoppermost three sections are welded and can be taken of and lowered. The remainder is built of angle steel, held together with drive bolts. These are fasteners which are slightly larger than the bolt hole in diameter... they are driven through the hole and then a nut attached and tightened. Each one has to be unbolted and then driven back out of the steel. The option is to use a cutting torch or mechanical cutter, and remove each piece of steel that way. And, anything you drop has a very good chance of landing in the busiest freeway in tghe Eastern U.S.
The tower will be useless after removed, except as scrap metal.

 

[jabba17]

Naive question: I was down at Grant Field today and was thinking...could WREK use one of the old WSB towers atop the Biltmore? Or are they too far gone (or too short) to be suitable for radio, particularly 100k worth of FM?

 

[jal41]

Naive question: I was down at Grant Field today and was thinking...could WREK use one of the old WSB towers atop the Biltmore? Or are they too far gone (or too short) to be suitable for radio, particularly 100k worth of FM?

WSB-AM started from the Biltmore in 1922, way before FM. Reports from the day say an Opera singer's voice knocked out the transmitter on opening night, which shows how sensitive the technology of the day was. I doubt that type of tower could support today's solid state technology.

If they could use it, the sound effects WREK plays would constantly blow out the transmitter, which would supply ample learning opportunities for Tech's engineering students.

 

[taylorengineer]

Those Biltmore towers are shadowed by the taller structures downtown and probably would NOT be much better than the tower they have now. And who knows if they could even support a one bay structurally.....those towers are VERY old.......
WREK's current tower is on very high ground and is a choice location in terms of elevation. Problem is they don't have enough property to build a taller tower which could be loaded with a heavier antenna. To fuller build their pattern they would need a "panel" type of antenna which is, essentially, an antenna which "wraps" around the tower. The signal can then be controlled in different directions more predictably(WREK will be directional - they will be 100,000 watts in certain directions.)
Any urban FM needs to be at least 500 feet above ground to avoid shadowing from downtown buildings.
(An easy way to think of the behavior of radio signals is to think about how light behaves - they are very similar. If you have a lightbulb, and you block it with a building, then the intensity of the light is lessened. There is still light which is reflected from other directions but it is not as bright as direct light would be.)
I'm thinking Ssnake and Tom say they amended the app for a "less full" pattern so a more simple antenna could be used on the current tower.
Too bad the athletics department along with alumni won't just build WREK a nice 500-600 foot tower where they are now - they could make a small fortune leasing tower space.

 

[jabba17]

Too bad the athletics department along with alumni won't just build WREK a nice 500-600 foot tower where they are now - they could make a small fortune leasing tower space.

I don't think there's enough footprint right there next to Woodruff to put either a self-supporting or guyed tower of any significant additional height...but I might be wrong.

Could they put the tower atop the old GSU dorms (would the height of the building overcome the low topography)? Or Woodruff? Or the Physics building? Or the library?

Maybe WREK could go in with Peach State Radio so PSR could pick up an ATL affiliate (not a takeover of WREK) and split the cost of the tower. WRFG and WCLK could also stand an upgrade, although I'm not sure if they are allowed to play with the state government on something like this.

Lastly, the GTAA may want to stay at arms' length so as to not anger ISP/WQXI or any other commercial station they are dealing with. I'm sure they don't want WREK to become the Yellow Jackets' de facto flagship station, although the GTAA has not been shy about using WREK as a bargaining chip with ISP et al.

 

[taylorengineer]

You're right about the limitations concerning the current site. Probably not enough real estate to build a taller tower.
Too bad Georgia Tech sports are not a larger draw.....it's nothing like the Georgia program. No real commercial interest from anyone with a big signal.....WREK is the best place for the games.
Non commercial underwriting rules will still allow a small fortune to be made - look at WABE. WABE has a sales department that rivals most commercial stations - and they bill a ton of money too. WREK and GTAA could sell a ton of Tech game underwriting - WREK could have a million dollar plus budget if they hired a manager/staff to maximize income.
WREK can locate on one of the commercial towers(Richland or ATS)and have a huge increase in coverage. But due to pesky state rules about leases it is difficult to get it together - that's a big limitation for both the university owned stations.

 

[jabba17]

Too bad Georgia Tech sports are not a larger draw.....it's nothing like the Georgia program. No real commercial interest from anyone with a big signal.....WREK is the best place for the games.

I think the biggest limitation there is that ATL has only one class A clear channel AM. Nashville has two--Vandy has WSM and UT has WLAC, last time I checked. I'm surprised it's not the other way around, with WLAC having the trilobal directional night signal (but still 50k) and being on the high end of the dial.

I think that Tech could pick up the weaker of a pair of class A clears (UGA would keep WSB), if ATL had two. But we don't.

WCNN and WQXI have those dreadful night patterns, plus reduced night power.

I think that any prospective AM would look at the Tech package and grouse about the fact that they will have to share coverage with WTSH and WREK. Tech DID have the WGST 640/105.7 simul package several years ago, but CC isn't going to do that now--not while Latino is on 105.7--and isn't going to put Tech on a 100k FM, not even just for night games. Although Tech would probably draw more share than the Bull

 

[ssnake]

I'm thinking Ssnake and Tom say they amended the app for a "less full" pattern so a more simple antenna could be used on the current tower.

Nope... the CP is for a fuller pattern than the original, including more coverage toward Rockmart due to the deletion of the defective Cedartown allotments.

We're investigating alternatives to panel antennas, including directionalized side-mount arrays, and we'd file to cover the pattern within the envelope. The problem is that we can't find a manufacturer who will give us a pattern estimate before actually assembling the antenna on a similar tower. But now that we have a CP, maybe we'd spend the money for a study. The current CE would know more about that.

 

[Hepcat]

I guess you guys in the business know about this FM signal site.

http://www.fmfool.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1

You can type in your address and zipcode and get every FM station possible for your location.

And BTW, even though I have several megabuck FM tuners, I can say I'm amazed by the new little $99 Sony XDR-F1HD. It is really a DX champ. Looks like one good use for HD channels is feeds from WSB and WGST for night time talk shows out here in the boonies.

 

[tshanks]

We're investigating alternatives to panel antennas, including directionalized side-mount arrays, and we'd file to cover the pattern within the envelope. The problem is that we can't find a manufacturer who will give us a pattern estimate before actually assembling the antenna on a similar tower. But now that we have a CP, maybe we'd spend the money for a study. The current CE would know more about that.

You say "we" like you're the one making the calls...

Thomas Shanks
Chief Engineer
WREK Atlanta, Georgia Tech Student Radio

 

[littlejohn]

Actually, that was the royal 'we'.

 

[tshanks]

We're investigating alternatives to panel antennas, including directionalized side-mount arrays, and we'd file to cover the pattern within the envelope. The problem is that we can't find a manufacturer who will give us a pattern estimate before actually assembling the antenna on a similar tower. But now that we have a CP, maybe we'd spend the money for a study. The current CE would know more about that.

You say "we" like you're the one making the calls...

Thomas Shanks
Chief Engineer
WREK Atlanta, Georgia Tech Student Radio

We are very appreciative of everything ssnake has done for WREK both during his tenure here and since then with his invaluable volunteer advice and assistance.

I was simply poking fun at the second-person mention of a few measly things I've done since then. He deserves the right to use the "editorial we" here, as he is still officially a current member of the staff while he continues to help us, even if it is remotely.

Thomas Shanks

 

[tshanks]

The problem is that we can't find a manufacturer who will give us a pattern estimate before actually assembling the antenna on a similar tower. But now that we have a CP, maybe we'd spend the money for a study. The current CE would know more about that.

We would welcome the volunteer advice and/or assistance of (certified) antenna/tower engineers/architects on the involved antenna and tower decisions. Now might be a good time to get connected, as WREK could use your help if we are to accomplish this. The bureaucratic red tape and differing funding source requirements of actually contracting someone who can legally answer prerequisite tower and antenna questions might be what stops us, even though the funding for the antenna might be there. If you know someone around here who could help, ask them to send us an email!

It can probably be tax deductible, so if you enjoy helping out at WREK as much as we do, it could be almost like getting paid!