WRGB has just announced that they are transmitting experimentally their TV audio on 87.9FM. This will apparently get them away from the digital noise a little better. I was a little surprised that the FCC would grant such an experiment in that WVCR-FM on 88.3 has their transmitter (Class B1) about a mile from the WRGB site. 400 KHZ spacing requirements for a Class A to class B1 in the FM band are like I believe 27 miles. (I do stand corrected on that). Obviously, they would not do this without FCC permission, because of the heavy penalties they could face without approval. I am sure in the coming weeks they will be doing field tests to evaluate any interference issues and submit them to the FCC. I just took a ride in my neighborhood and it sounded good. Of course I live in an elevated area about 35 north of the TX site. One thing that may help is the TX is on 87.9, center frequency to my digital tuning receiver, where before they were really on 87.75 which was off center frequency.
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WRGB TV AUDIO ON 87.9
- Thread starter THE_KNICKMAN
- Start date
I really have a very hard time seeing how this is going to be allowed. 87.9 has been used as translator space in the past. And what about first and second adjacents on 88.1 or 88.3???
This isn't a free for all. They are TV station NOT a radio station. How long will it be before other stations start complaining that they are a disadvantage for not being able to do the same thing and that the station that 'happens' to be on 6 gets an entire extra service tier.
This isn't a free for all. They are TV station NOT a radio station. How long will it be before other stations start complaining that they are a disadvantage for not being able to do the same thing and that the station that 'happens' to be on 6 gets an entire extra service tier.
Are you sure that it is not 87.7 rather than 87.9 ? 87.9 (Channel 200) has a very limited use here in the states with only two full-service (Class D's) stations are using it. However, I do think that WVCR would relent lodging any complaint regarding WRGB's experimental operation, considering that WRGB (DTV Channel 6) has probably been giving WVCR a lot leeway over the years, especially since 'VCR's substantial power increases over the years. And considering WRGB's long history of exemplary operations since 1928, I think the FCC will give them the benefit of the doubt. Let's see if it works. The worst that could happen is....... it doesn't.
I am willing to bet that in every market that does not have an 88.1 or an 88.3 close by, there are going to be requests to the FCC for 87.7 or 87.9 from stations that do not operate on ch. 6. We may be seeing the " opening of a new can of worms".
C
Channel Surf
Guest
It appears to me that they are broadcasting with less power than they used to use on 87.7.
Good move from WRGB. Look what they did in Philadelphia, WPVI is now carrying a TV audio on 87.9 after analog went out at 87.7 back in June for digital signals.
I understand that they are broadcasting an offset pattern at between 3 and 4 KW of ERP north of the TX site, with vertical polarization. Does pretty well to the north, was in Lake George (or should I call it Lake John after the sewage spill.) while there was some mobile flutter, it was generally usable.
Wouldn't WRGB have to run Legal Id's on 87.9, similar to Capital News 9's 900 AM (WUAM Watervliet). The TV side never mentions the calls, but they are not a broadcast station, so they don't have to. WUAM does a great job of slipping in their legal ID at the top of the hour.
I would think WRGB would have have to have a legal ID for 87.9. I can't see them with only TPO of 150-200 watts calling their COL Schenectady. Will their new legal ID be "WRGB-FM and WRGB-DT schenectady"? Or, WRGB-FM Altamont, and WRGB-DT Schenectady?
I would think WRGB would have have to have a legal ID for 87.9. I can't see them with only TPO of 150-200 watts calling their COL Schenectady. Will their new legal ID be "WRGB-FM and WRGB-DT schenectady"? Or, WRGB-FM Altamont, and WRGB-DT Schenectady?
My guess is and I stand corrected is that 87.9 is within the channel limits of channel 6 (82MHZ to 88Mhz) and they will not have to identify separately. I also understand they are running about 3-4 KW ERP that in a north favoring pattern. to the south the ERP would be much less than that. Given their height above average terrain, they are similar in power to that of a class B1 FM station.
I can confirm that WPVI is NOT on 87.9 or 87.7 anymore. I read somewhere that they have NO interest in analog audio. There are several 88.1's near Philly that would complain about WPVI on 87.9.disney fanatic said:Good move from WRGB. Look what they did in Philadelphia, WPVI is now carrying a TV audio on 87.9 after analog went out at 87.7 back in June for digital signals.
WNYZ "Pulse 87" is broadcasting in digital, and their analog audio is at 87.74.
THE_KNICKMAN said:I understand that they are broadcasting an offset pattern at between 3 and 4 KW of ERP north of the TX site, with vertical polarization. Does pretty well to the north, was in Lake George (or should I call it Lake John after the sewage spill.) while there was some mobile flutter, it was generally usable.
Yes! This frequency will not be picking up in Kngston, because I'm in that area where WRGB usually picked up in Kingston at 87.7, but it was gone, and as for 87.9, it would not be picking up in Kingston due to interference with WBPM and others which is part of IBOC. I hate IBOC where they had some station interferences by other stations.
disney fanatic said:THE_KNICKMAN said:I understand that they are broadcasting an offset pattern at between 3 and 4 KW of ERP north of the TX site, with vertical polarization. Does pretty well to the north, was in Lake George (or should I call it Lake John after the sewage spill.) while there was some mobile flutter, it was generally usable.
Yes! This frequency will not be picking up in Kngston, because I'm in that area where WRGB usually picked up in Kingston at 87.7, but it was gone, and as for 87.9, it would not be picking up in Kingston due to interference with WBPM and others which is part of IBOC. I hate IBOC where they had some station interferences by other stations.
I'm no fan of IBOC, but IBOC is not responsible for any interference you're receiving to WRGB's 87.9 analog signal.
FM IBOC is transmitted in a station's own channel and one channel to either side. In WBPM's case, that would be 92.7, 92.9, and 93.1. WBPM-IBOC is not capable of causing interference 5MHz below WBPM's signal on 87.9.
It is remotely possible a technical fault in the WBPM transmitter or misadjustment of the equipment could cause interference to 87.9. Such faults are usually located and corrected quickly. (as they usually cause interference on many other frequencies -- somebody is bound to complain!)
I think it's FAR more likely the interference you may be hearing is coming from WRGB's own video transmitter. (or possibly, from WPVI's in Philadelphia. Or both.) The DTV signals occupy the entire 6MHz channel. WRGB reportedly depends on polarization loss to make this work -- the assumption your FM radio will have a vertically-polarized antenna. This is usually not a good assumption.
Re: WRGB TV AUDIO ON 87.9 NOW OFF
WRGB has shut down 87.9 because they had no FCC authorization to do it. Many of us have questioned their right to do this. There have been no known authorizations posted by FCC. No experimental permits, no nothing. I have to wonder what they were thinking. I would almost think that fines would be inevitable. I can't understand why they would leave themselves open to this and why the chief engineer who is a fellow ham radio operator would risk action against his FCC issued licenses. They apparently are going to try for authorization. Would not want to make a wager on the outcome.
WRGB has shut down 87.9 because they had no FCC authorization to do it. Many of us have questioned their right to do this. There have been no known authorizations posted by FCC. No experimental permits, no nothing. I have to wonder what they were thinking. I would almost think that fines would be inevitable. I can't understand why they would leave themselves open to this and why the chief engineer who is a fellow ham radio operator would risk action against his FCC issued licenses. They apparently are going to try for authorization. Would not want to make a wager on the outcome.
Further, I would like to say that I hope that 87.9 returns, I find it particularly useful to listen to the news broadcasts at noon and the early part of the evening newscasts since I am frequently listening in the company car, when I am traveling between calls. If the FCC will consider authorizing such a plan, there are further issues to deal with: First, 87.9 is just 400khz from 88.3 the frequency for WVCR, the Siena College Station. The 2 transmitter sites are no more than a mile apart. Both 87.9 and 88.3 operate(d) at about a class B1 (By FM standards)power level. I am not sure what B1 to B1 spacing requirements are, but I would guess 30 to 40 miles 400 khz separation. There are other stations in the market that probably feel that such an authorization would give WRGB an unfair advantage. I have to wonder if with the advent of HD radio with extra channels available if TV/FM combos will put their TV audio on the HD channel and in some cases, FM stations with different ownership than the TV station will lease out an HD channel for TV audio?
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