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WRLL IBOC

> It's obvious if it isn't a Hispanic station you point out
> its flaws because only Hispanic programming is king? It's a
> niche just like every other format on the dial. It's not
> about the ratings it's about the billing remember?
> While they're not making a killing, it's an AM music
> station, and until it becomes a problem it's staying there.

Last year it billed significantly less than $2 million. This would barely justify the operation... The issue is, "what else can you do with an X Band station in Chicago?"

I would assume that CCU, which has no decent AM in the market, is trying to figure out what to do with this one. They should have left it in Southern Illinois. The station is 38th 25-54 and has an AQH audience of less than two thousand people... as I once mentioned, less than a mid range station in Traverse City, MI.
 
> Hey David-
>
> When's that flip to Air America that you predicted going to
> happen?

I did NOT predict. I reported that all the trades were saying that WRLL was likely to be the station. Something happened in the negotiations... maybe AA did not want to be on an X bander... or CCU was unhappy with the deal... but it never happened, which I also reported.

While I did not predict what did not happen, I thought it was a good idea, in light of WRLLs horrible demos and inability to sell more than $120,000 a month.
>
 
> > Hey David-
> >
> > When's that flip to Air America that you predicted going
> to
> > happen?
>
> I did NOT predict.

Actually, you did... and got pretty defensive when I called you on it.

It's OK to admit when you miss one...
 
Re: So using your analogy...WRTO is.....

> > > The station is #33 in Chicago. That is hardly an
> audience
> > > size that can be put in jeopardy.
>
> No agency buys 33 or 32 deep.
> > >

Stick to the topic David! You stated on an audience size, <u>not</u> sales! Tsk, tsk, tsk!

I have to give you credit though, valiant effort to turn around the topic away from the original comment you made.

It is also curious how you were fast to point out 1690's revenue but not 1200's. <P ID="signature">______________

"Z"
Music Coordinator/Technical Support</P>
 
Re: So using your analogy...WRTO is.....

> > > The station is #33 in Chicago. That is hardly an
> audience
> > > size that can be put in jeopardy.
>
> No agency buys 33 or 32 deep.
> > >
> >
> > (Actually WRLL is #32 after combining all simulcasts in
> the
> > market, for Spr P2.)
> >
> > WRTO is #36. Even LESS of an audience size that can be put
>
> > in jeopardy. Format change time!!!!
>
> Actually, there is a different metric for Spanish staitons.
> WRTO has between a 5 and 6 share of Spanish dominant
> Hispanics. This is often what ad agencies look for...
> Arbitron does a Hispanic book, by the way.
>
> Talk formats are often bought differently. In LA, neither
> news station is in the top 20, yet they bill in the top 10.
> In NY, the sports station seldom gets to #15, but bills in
> the top 4.
>
> Music formats are a commodity... bought by pure numbers and
> demos. And WRLL, in sales demos, is not even in the top 40.
>
> >
> > Polish? Russian? Some Asian variant we can determine after
>
> > calling out for unbiased research. Brokered? Maybe even
> some
> > Anglo Oldies that can better the numbers than the format
> is
> > pulling on there right now?
>
> WRTO, also, is part of the national RadioCadena Univision.
> As such, it is a package of 11 AMs in the top 15 Hispanics
> markets and sold as a single station. WRLL can not do that.
> This is the way lower rated syndicated shows make money...
> they sell national coverage and tonage. It's a differnt
> concept, and does not apply to a 65+ music station.

And for the final time, it DOESN'T HAVE TO. It's comboed with WLIT. It's not having to survive according to the same rules as a stand-alone station.



>
 
>
> No Adam,
>
> NewsWeb did not "beat" CC into the flip. There was no
> competition for the flip. It was trade speculation that CC
> would come to a "deal" with AAR for their programming. Which
> ended up being untrue.

Z's got it exactly correct. And it was more of a rhetorical question aimed at reminding our "expert" that he missed it.
 
"Radio Ritmo 1200"

Maybe it's a "company secret", David, but why did they go through all the trouble of renaming 1200 in Chicago WRTO, and further renaming the 98.3 in Miami "WRTO-FM"? 'Round the time it all went down, Salsa 98 was going through a reimaging, so I figured new calls were on the way for Goulds and Chicago would act as a "parking lot" for the 15 year old South Florida calls. But I ended up more confused.
 
Re: So using your analogy...WRTO is.....

> > > The station is #33 in Chicago. That is hardly an
> audience
> > > size that can be put in jeopardy.
>
> No agency buys 33 or 32 deep.
> > >
> >
> > (Actually WRLL is #32 after combining all simulcasts in
> the
> > market, for Spr P2.)
> >
> > WRTO is #36. Even LESS of an audience size that can be put
>
> > in jeopardy. Format change time!!!!
>
> Actually, there is a different metric for Spanish staitons.
> WRTO has between a 5 and 6 share of Spanish dominant
> Hispanics. This is often what ad agencies look for...
> Arbitron does a Hispanic book, by the way.
>
> Talk formats are often bought differently. In LA, neither
> news station is in the top 20, yet they bill in the top 10.
> In NY, the sports station seldom gets to #15, but bills in
> the top 4.
>
> Music formats are a commodity... bought by pure numbers and
> demos. And WRLL, in sales demos, is not even in the top 40.
>
> >
> > Polish? Russian? Some Asian variant we can determine after
>
> > calling out for unbiased research. Brokered? Maybe even
> some
> > Anglo Oldies that can better the numbers than the format
> is
> > pulling on there right now?
>
> WRTO, also, is part of the national RadioCadena Univision.
> As such, it is a package of 11 AMs in the top 15 Hispanics
> markets and sold as a single station. WRLL can not do that.
> This is the way lower rated syndicated shows make money...
> they sell national coverage and tonage. It's a differnt
> concept, and does not apply to a 65+ music station.
>
"65+ music station" . . . I hope you made a typo--or you're not talking about WRLL.
 
Re: So using your analogy...WRTO is.....

> >
> "65+ music station" . . . I hope you made a typo--or you're
> not talking about WRLL.
>

Considering that only 19% of the audience is under 55, and the average (median) age of listeners is 61, that sure sounds like a 65+ station to me.

And, considering th ecume of the station would only half fill a major league statdium, this is a small station to boot.
 
Re: So using your analogy...WRTO is.....

>
> And for the final time, it DOESN'T HAVE TO. It's comboed
> with WLIT. It's not having to survive according to the same
> rules as a stand-alone station.

How much does fifteen hundred AQH persons add to the WLIT sale? It sounds like a bonus to me, and probably does not pay the operating costs.

In percentages, WRLL adds 3% to the WLIT AQH numbers... almost all of it over 55, and with a median age of 61!
 
Re: So using your analogy...WRTO is.....

> > > > The station is #33 in Chicago. That is hardly an
> > audience
> > > > size that can be put in jeopardy.
> >
> > No agency buys 33 or 32 deep.
> > > >
>
> Stick to the topic David! You stated on an audience size,
> not sales! Tsk, tsk, tsk!

And music stations sell differently than non-music stations, so the ratings have a different meaning. Otherwise, explain WFAN, please. Or WSCR!!
>
> I have to give you credit though, valiant effort to turn
> around the topic away from the original comment you made.

You mean the comment that Inside Radio, RBR, All Access and others were reporting WRLL going with AA? Are you going to shoot the messenger? (I still think they should have done that...)
>
> It is also curious how you were fast to point out 1690's
> revenue but not 1200's.

1200 outbills 1690 significantly. Most of the network shows are sold through mid-2006.
 
> > > Hey David-
> > >
> > > When's that flip to Air America that you predicted going
>
> > to
> > > happen?
> >
> > I did NOT predict.
>
> Actually, you did... and got pretty defensive when I called
> you on it.
>
> It's OK to admit when you miss one...
>

If I gave the impression I was predicting, I am sorry. I was relaying what was reported in t he trades, which were full of Chicago news. In fact, If I am not mistaken, even Feder picked this one up.

Most people believe that there was a close situation, and something happened at the end. Maybe AA did not like 1690 and wanted a below 1610 signal... who knows. But it was reported that they were near ready to go... IR even projected a date.

I think AA made a big mistake if that was the reason. And CCU should have considered the salability of AA on 1690 vs. the current product. But that is Monday Morning Quarterbacking!
 
> I find it extremely hard to beleive that 1690 wrll starts to
> fade at 95th and western seeing the transmitter is only 2
> miles away at 87th and kedzie. I think that 1000watts can
> make it out more then 2 miles, sounds like you need a new
> radio or car with a decent radio.
>
With 1690 being diplexed from one of the 4 towers of WGRB, the location plays part of the role in a weak night signal. I don't know about the height of the tower. The I believe the frequency plays another role too. I know on the car radio at night, I can hear the signal as far as Burnham and Calumet City to the south. I can listen to it until I reach the downtown area, then it fades out. It fades in and out throughout different parts of the north side and northern suburbs. I can get 1690 in NW Indiana at night as long as I'm in an area with lots of wet soil.
 
> > I find it extremely hard to beleive that 1690 wrll starts
> to
> > fade at 95th and western seeing the transmitter is only 2
> > miles away at 87th and kedzie. I think that 1000watts can
> > make it out more then 2 miles, sounds like you need a new
> > radio or car with a decent radio.
> >
> With 1690 being diplexed from one of the 4 towers of WGRB,
> the location plays part of the role in a weak night signal.
> I don't know about the height of the tower.

The tower was designed for 1390, so at 1690 it is electrically longer and more efficient. 1690 also benefits form the multi-tower ground system of 1390... this is as good a site and tower as you could ask for in a built-up metro area.

As you suspect, the problem is 1690 itself, not the transmitter or installation. Its a bad frequency.
 
Re: So using your analogy...WRTO is.....

> How much does fifteen hundred AQH persons add to the WLIT
> sale? It sounds like a bonus to me, and probably does not
> pay the operating costs.

Actually, it made its budget for this year. It's not going away.
 
A 250,000-seat stadium?

> And, considering th ecume of the station would only half
> fill a major league statdium, this is a small station to
> boot.

Typical major-league stadia seat around 40-50,000 people. WRLL's cume more than fills Notre Dame stadium on game day, with lines still waiting to get in.
 
Re: A 250,000-seat stadium?

> > And, considering th ecume of the station would only half
> > fill a major league statdium, this is a small station to
> > boot.
>
> Typical major-league stadia seat around 40-50,000 people.
> WRLL's cume more than fills Notre Dame stadium on game day,
> with lines still waiting to get in.

I should have specified "25-54" which is what I was discussing elsewhere. My bad.

WRLL cume averages under 30,000 in sales demos. If you want 55+, you get a stadium full.
 
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