Yes, W275BH has been running HD for several years now. In addition to the main WNNW programming on HD1, they have "Valley 98-9" W255DA on HD2, and "Boston's Big FM" the 60s/70s satellite feed that used to run on 1570 WUBG/105.3 on HD3.
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WROR HD-1
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And for those of us who wish to participate in this discussion, to what are you referring? Call/email whom about what?
Showing my age here, but not ashamed of it; here goes:
60 or so years ago, there was a four-station FM network carrying classical music; to wit, the Concert Network with stations in Providence, WXCN (flagship); Boston, WBCN; Hartford, WHCN; and NYC, WNCN. As I recall, no low-fidelity phone lines were used, high-fidelity (a pair of 15-KHz lines) facilities were prohibitively costly, and a private microwave link was not practical. But the FCC permitted direct station-to-station relay, which meant the receiving stations needed a high-mounted, highly-directional, high-gain RECEIVE antenna to pick up the distant signal from the adjacent station. This made sense to me, at least, because the stations primary coverage areas did not overlap much, if at all, and the stations weren't competing with each other. (They may have been co-owned, not sure.) But this business of HD-2 and translator intermingling is confusing as aych-ee-el-el. the Concert Network gave up the ghost in 1963, when WXCN left the airwaves.
After WXCN at 101.5 FM left the airwaves, it was replaced months later by WCRQ, co-owned with WCRB, Waltham-Boston.
Thoughts...
Yes, an HD2 signal can feed a translator....HOWEVER, I don't see that as removing the requirement that the programming originate on the AM station the translator is attached to.
Feed can simply mean a method of transmission, getting a signal from one place to the other. It doesn't indicate that the HD2 signal can be the (sole) originator of the programming.
Just my thoughts/observation.
Yes, an HD2 signal can feed a translator....HOWEVER, I don't see that as removing the requirement that the programming originate on the AM station the translator is attached to.
Feed can simply mean a method of transmission, getting a signal from one place to the other. It doesn't indicate that the HD2 signal can be the (sole) originator of the programming.
Just my thoughts/observation.
Let's put aside that this is a HD-2 on a translator feeding another translator. For months, Valley 98.9 was identifying (TOH) still as WMVX and W255DA, after WMVX flipped formats to its current Spanish language talk format. That's a big part of the issue. I don't know it still does, as I haven't listened in. I know an earlier post stated that it was identifying only as W255DA. But for some months, it still claimed to be WMVX.
The 102.9 HD2 is not on the air, I have verified this multiple times, including being within a mile of their transmitter
As of yesterday it is still not on.
IMHO the 98.9 translator is not operating lawfully as there is no way it is getting signal from an AM or HD anything
It was on the air when I was in the area back on April 30th.
Someone else PM'd me that they got it today.... I'll check it out again next time I am closer to Methuen.... although I should be able to get it in Pelham as I am in the local predicted pattern for the FM, I should still get the HD since I am only about 10 miles from the stick
It is perfectly legal and done in hundreds of markets.
I know that, but would you agree that a translator with a HD2 feeding another translator with a different coverage area is a bit different?
I don’t think anyone is wondering if an HD2 can feed/send programming to a translator
The question remains if the HD2 signal can be the original source of the programming.
And….does this relieve the translator attached AM of its responsibility to create the programming on the the translator (even if it’s being relayed to the translator by an HD2 signal. (I.e. Is the AM free to program itself independent and different from the translator it’s attached to simply because other programming is being relayed via an HD2?).
This is unclear.
This particular situation is extremely questionable.
A translator that's licensed to rebroadcast an FM station can carry HD2/3/4 audio because the FCC ruled early on that the translator can carry any part of the originating signal.
A translator that's licensed to rebroadcast an AM station can only carry the one audio signal coming from the AM, because that's all there is. (If and when AM HD2 becomes technically possible, that's a new question the FCC has yet to answer.)
W255DA is licensed to rebroadcast AM station WCCM. But it's not carrying WCCM's audio. Instead, the audio it carries comes from the HD2 of another translator, W275BH, which is in turn a translator of WNNW 800.
This opens up two new questions: can an FM translator of an AM station (which has only one audio stream) originate separate programming on HD2/3/4? And can those new program streams then be relayed by an analog translator, effectively creating a new station?
W275BH has been in HD for years and the FCC appears to have tacitly accepted its subchannels, in part because they originally carried sister AM AM stations and weren't originating new formats.
But the 98.9 situation is murkier. It's in the definition of the translator service that a translator can't originate its own programming and must be relaying something originating from a full power station (even if it's an HD sub)
W255DA fails that test. At best, when W275BH is properly on the air with its HD subs (which it often is not), it's rebroadcasting programming that originates on another translator. At worst, it's effectively originating its own programming.
That's not unique - Saga has a cluster near me with three translators allegedly fed from HD subs that have been off the air for years. But at least when those are operating properly, they're clearly legal. I'm not sure you can make that same case for W255DA.
A translator that's licensed to rebroadcast an FM station can carry HD2/3/4 audio because the FCC ruled early on that the translator can carry any part of the originating signal.
A translator that's licensed to rebroadcast an AM station can only carry the one audio signal coming from the AM, because that's all there is. (If and when AM HD2 becomes technically possible, that's a new question the FCC has yet to answer.)
W255DA is licensed to rebroadcast AM station WCCM. But it's not carrying WCCM's audio. Instead, the audio it carries comes from the HD2 of another translator, W275BH, which is in turn a translator of WNNW 800.
This opens up two new questions: can an FM translator of an AM station (which has only one audio stream) originate separate programming on HD2/3/4? And can those new program streams then be relayed by an analog translator, effectively creating a new station?
W275BH has been in HD for years and the FCC appears to have tacitly accepted its subchannels, in part because they originally carried sister AM AM stations and weren't originating new formats.
But the 98.9 situation is murkier. It's in the definition of the translator service that a translator can't originate its own programming and must be relaying something originating from a full power station (even if it's an HD sub)
W255DA fails that test. At best, when W275BH is properly on the air with its HD subs (which it often is not), it's rebroadcasting programming that originates on another translator. At worst, it's effectively originating its own programming.
That's not unique - Saga has a cluster near me with three translators allegedly fed from HD subs that have been off the air for years. But at least when those are operating properly, they're clearly legal. I'm not sure you can make that same case for W255DA.
The questionable part, though, seems to involve cases where a commercial translator is either relaying a silent signal or inactive HD-2, HD-3 or HD-4. A clean case of an AM with a translator running the same programming is quite clear. The case of an HD channel feeding a translator seems nearly as clear.
The issues we see too frequently are AM's that are off the air for extended periods "feeding" translators or translators supposedly running the content from an FM's HD channel when there is no HD on the FM in question or the HD is running something different from the translator.
Then the issue of a translator running HD channels comes up and I can't find anything specific in the FCC rules. This is as if some translator operators are several steps ahead of regulation... sort of the way that FrankenFMs developed.
It would seem that for a translator to have separate HD-2 and beyond channels, those also would / should have to relay a legitimate AM or FM operation and not go into independent origination on a facility established to relay and not originate.
THE 102.9 Translator was on in HD mode today, with the same feed on HD2 that is on the 98.9 translator.
the 102.9 HD3 was unintelligible
So if someone wanted to file a complaint with the FCC alleging the 98.9 and 102.9 translators were operating illegally, where do they start?
the 102.9 HD3 was unintelligible
So if someone wanted to file a complaint with the FCC alleging the 98.9 and 102.9 translators were operating illegally, where do they start?
This sounds a lot like the Guevara (former) couple and their "stations" in TX where they seem to believe that even if you have an expired and inactive agreement with a legal FM or HD channel, you can originate on the HD and run it with coverage that rivals at least a full Class A FM.
The AM station in question is now WMVX. It swapped calls with WCCM a few years back, but when 98.9 started as a translator, the AM calls were WCCM. It's supposed to be tied to 1110 AM in Salem, which is now WMVX.
Sometime in the last few months they changed it from being associated with 1110 WMVX to 1490 WCCM. Not sure why...
For many years the WCCM calls were on 800, as in 800 in Roman numerals. At some point 1570 was WNSH licensed to Beverly then it got licensed to Methuen and got the WMVX calls; then 1570 became WUBG "big 105.3" as in its FM translator and WMVX calls went to 1110. I wonder if those were picked to tie into "Merrimack Valley"...
wMVx: come on, now, what do you think?
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