I think one of the misconceptions here is that Pinfield has a big name. Is he really a "big name"? If I were to walk down the street, especially pre-WRXP and ask people "who is Matt Pinfield", I'm sure I would have gotten a lot of blank stares. He was the wrong choice for a morning man from the get go. That voice belonged on PM drive, not coming out of my radio at 7:15.
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WRXP: who stays, who goes?
- Thread starter WRXPinsider
- Start date
And now, as a Public Service, we shall translate Executive Radio-Speak, to help explain why the nation's airwaves are what they are today:
“I was the Market Manager and led the effort to find a new direction for 101.9. Most detractors today did not know…the coming storm that would wipe out not just CD 101.9 but lots of other smooth jazz operations, coast to coast. The reality was, the station was more ethnic and blue collar than its image. When the People Meter became currency, the problem was amplified. The cluster needed a station with broader appeal. Considerable time and money on research was spent. Nearly every format was considered and the AAA rock position was chosen. Looking back, 101.9 RXP was a diary station in a PPM world. A PPM world that no one had much experience in. PPM was no friend to a niche format in a crowded market."
(Translation
"Our station was doing okay in New York, and every cab and restaurant in the City had it on. But our company (which is named after the Yiddish word for 'truth') decided its listeners were too Black and downscale, and we wanted to make more money. We wanted a station that was white and upscale.
"So we spent a million bucks on Research, and for all that effort, somehow neither we nor the company who did the research had any clue that the new ratings method called the Portable People Meter ('PPM') was coming, or that, contrary to all the expensive research, it would hate the new format (which managed to climb as high as 19th in the ratings) even worse than the old one.
"But all us executives got to keep our jobs, until the owners finally cashed-in and sold the station. I got a big severance package. So long, suckers!"
We're here to help!
“I was the Market Manager and led the effort to find a new direction for 101.9. Most detractors today did not know…the coming storm that would wipe out not just CD 101.9 but lots of other smooth jazz operations, coast to coast. The reality was, the station was more ethnic and blue collar than its image. When the People Meter became currency, the problem was amplified. The cluster needed a station with broader appeal. Considerable time and money on research was spent. Nearly every format was considered and the AAA rock position was chosen. Looking back, 101.9 RXP was a diary station in a PPM world. A PPM world that no one had much experience in. PPM was no friend to a niche format in a crowded market."
(Translation
"Our station was doing okay in New York, and every cab and restaurant in the City had it on. But our company (which is named after the Yiddish word for 'truth') decided its listeners were too Black and downscale, and we wanted to make more money. We wanted a station that was white and upscale."So we spent a million bucks on Research, and for all that effort, somehow neither we nor the company who did the research had any clue that the new ratings method called the Portable People Meter ('PPM') was coming, or that, contrary to all the expensive research, it would hate the new format (which managed to climb as high as 19th in the ratings) even worse than the old one.
"But all us executives got to keep our jobs, until the owners finally cashed-in and sold the station. I got a big severance package. So long, suckers!"
We're here to help!
WNTIRadio - You are so right, He was made to do nights, live from shows or playing more music that didn't have to be approved for morning drive but who's fault was that? Program Director Leslie Fram thought that she can get close to people by being Matt's sidekick (I am just going by interviews and her horrible laugh anytime an "A-List" person makes a comment.) Matt is a superstar in the rock world, every indie band grew up watching him host 120 minutes. So you might be right about him not being a name everyone will know but ask a band if they want Pinfield to interview them and they will say yes (Ask Leslie Fram, how else did she get interviews with most of these bands, well am sure she was ass-kissing a few managers/publicists.) So again, this sucks that I have to go to sirius and it sucks that no one (Alex Cameron/Brian D.) got rid of Leslie before this station turned to shit (Because it clearly did the last few months.)
Like many stations having ratings problems, 'RXP went through a number of tweaks. I liked when they hired Nik Carter, shortly after the demise of K-Rock. I thought he added some fun to a station that often sounded a bit too serious for a rocker. Unfortunately he only lasted a year there.
Did the changes over the past few years make the station better or worse?
Did the changes over the past few years make the station better or worse?
Barry - right after they let Nik go, they went to a KRock like format. They had a great voice on in the afternoon drive and they were to stupid and cheap to keep him. Why? It shows they had no plan there and the PD, Leslie Fram, was clueless. Nik is a perfect DJ for the format RXP changed into the last year and they didn't want to pay him what he probably asked for. Just another example of why "WRXPInsider" was on point about the higher ups being stupid and not looking at the big picture. They only cared about there paychecks and us fans suffer.
Classic Puker said:(Translation
That would seem partly accurate -- but is that the fault of the ownership or management? Does anyone think advertisers in the NYC market were going to buy time on CD101.9 looking to reach the market they were reaching? (I would disagree with the cab part, BTW.) That may be the fault of the advertisers and agencies, who I think are largely stuck in the past re who and how to reach audiences that buy, but no station or group can change that.
Classic Puker said:
Did they choose the wrong format? Of course, in 20-20 hindsight, joining so many other stations that have similarly seen that market format research bats more poorly than a mediocre shortstop. However, in such a saturated market, the options were clearly limited. I assume FM talk wasn't yet viewed as an option (remembering Free FM had recently gone splat.) Leaving the many views about Country in NYC aside, I would not think that WRXP's signal reaches the parts of the market most likely to listen. The format that was chosen (A) had no NYC stations on the same format and (B) does well in several other markets (though there were reasons to be concerned about whether it would play well in NYC, I concede). I can't say it was an obviously bad choice to make in 2008, though it clearly turned out to be the wrong one.
There was nothing cool about smooth jazz as presented by WQCD. It was rote, boring, and corny. At one time, it was very profitable for Emmis, but after the chill thing, it couldn't get its footing back.
The RXP experiment gave the higher-ups a toy that they could be excited about. It was hip music that was targeting a young hip audience. Problem was, this elusive audience doesn't listen to the radio and never thought RXP was as happening as management did, if they were even aware of the station at all.
The Colorado-based research company ginned up the numbers to support the conclusion that RXP's management wanted to see, and the geniuses at the top bought it hook line and sinker because they desperately wanted to be cool. These are very boring, very unimaginative, very "white" people who could impress their chums by saying that they were running the only station in NYC that played new, exciting, innovative rock music; won industry hipster awards; and sponsored the super duper hip CMJ convention in NYC.
NYC management perpetrated a "reality" that we all had to enthusiastically support if we wanted to keep our jobs. The facts (ratings) told a very different story, but Drelio/Cameron poo poohed all that, and kept telling us that we were just about to turn the corner.
Yes, turn the corner all right. Onto the unemployment line, because given the state of radio in NYC, that's where us staffers will end up.
Oh, and from what I hear, Mr. Dan Halyburen was happily on board with the insanity and delusion right from the get-go.
The RXP experiment gave the higher-ups a toy that they could be excited about. It was hip music that was targeting a young hip audience. Problem was, this elusive audience doesn't listen to the radio and never thought RXP was as happening as management did, if they were even aware of the station at all.
The Colorado-based research company ginned up the numbers to support the conclusion that RXP's management wanted to see, and the geniuses at the top bought it hook line and sinker because they desperately wanted to be cool. These are very boring, very unimaginative, very "white" people who could impress their chums by saying that they were running the only station in NYC that played new, exciting, innovative rock music; won industry hipster awards; and sponsored the super duper hip CMJ convention in NYC.
NYC management perpetrated a "reality" that we all had to enthusiastically support if we wanted to keep our jobs. The facts (ratings) told a very different story, but Drelio/Cameron poo poohed all that, and kept telling us that we were just about to turn the corner.
Yes, turn the corner all right. Onto the unemployment line, because given the state of radio in NYC, that's where us staffers will end up.
Oh, and from what I hear, Mr. Dan Halyburen was happily on board with the insanity and delusion right from the get-go.
Doug, I'm sure you'll be forced to agree that when it comes to "management" and "ownership", the former thinks what it knows the latter expects it to "think". The best management types don't need to be told. They know the game.
Re "20-20 hindsight": there was plenty of criticism extant, at the time CD 101.9 was dumped. And at that time, the consensus was that whether you were a listener, a broadcasting pro, a member of the former staff, or a Radio Critic who thought this was a boneheaded move on the part of media's current plethora of "futurists", you just weren't with the times. So the suggestion that we would only realize that this format had zero legs in "20-20 hindsight" reeks of the old political spin, "Who ever could have known..?" The people whom nobody in the loop was listening to, that's who.
With regard to advertising agencies: yes, no doubt. But I worked in this business in a time when a major market sales force was motivated, experienced and compensated properly, and could sell a low-rated "concept" format (e.g., Classical). And CD 101.9 wasn't even a "concept sale". It had numbers; whether you want to face this or not, Mr. H's comments make it painfully clear that they preferred to attract an upscale, white audience. Again having worked in this biz, I can tell you confidently that there was always a prejudice against a listenership that was considered "too Black". That this garbage was still happening in 2008 is disgusting. And if that was the fault of the agencies, a decent, all-pro marketing team could have countered that. Instead, we just dump the format and the staff. Status quo.
(And may I add my pipsqueak voice to the crowd who thinks the failure to shine with Nik Carter on staff was indicative of a general cluelessness on the part of the company.)
Re "20-20 hindsight": there was plenty of criticism extant, at the time CD 101.9 was dumped. And at that time, the consensus was that whether you were a listener, a broadcasting pro, a member of the former staff, or a Radio Critic who thought this was a boneheaded move on the part of media's current plethora of "futurists", you just weren't with the times. So the suggestion that we would only realize that this format had zero legs in "20-20 hindsight" reeks of the old political spin, "Who ever could have known..?" The people whom nobody in the loop was listening to, that's who.
With regard to advertising agencies: yes, no doubt. But I worked in this business in a time when a major market sales force was motivated, experienced and compensated properly, and could sell a low-rated "concept" format (e.g., Classical). And CD 101.9 wasn't even a "concept sale". It had numbers; whether you want to face this or not, Mr. H's comments make it painfully clear that they preferred to attract an upscale, white audience. Again having worked in this biz, I can tell you confidently that there was always a prejudice against a listenership that was considered "too Black". That this garbage was still happening in 2008 is disgusting. And if that was the fault of the agencies, a decent, all-pro marketing team could have countered that. Instead, we just dump the format and the staff. Status quo.
(And may I add my pipsqueak voice to the crowd who thinks the failure to shine with Nik Carter on staff was indicative of a general cluelessness on the part of the company.)
@Doug: The format that they chose that "done well in other markets" just also happened to do well in suburbs of New York City, where it was based. That contributed to what will eventually be its demise (way to get the lead story on TRI, by the way, Dan Halyburton).
@"RXP Insider": I'm not defending smooth jazz on 101.9, but I would argue that, at least in its early years, it was run pretty good. Only when they started conforming with Broadcast Dilapidation Architecture, would the format sound hollow... as was the case for many once-successful (and now defunct) smooth jazz stations across the country...
@Puker: I have no idea who you are, but after only two posts, I'm already starting to like you!
@"RXP Insider": I'm not defending smooth jazz on 101.9, but I would argue that, at least in its early years, it was run pretty good. Only when they started conforming with Broadcast Dilapidation Architecture, would the format sound hollow... as was the case for many once-successful (and now defunct) smooth jazz stations across the country...
@Puker: I have no idea who you are, but after only two posts, I'm already starting to like you!
All of the posts on this page typify why you blow a station like this up rather than tweek it. Blow it up. Once a horse is dead, and we've been assured that it's completely dead, you bury it. Then move on. That's the case here.
The bad thing about the rock world is it hates the establishment and it hates success. Rock fans find unknown acts, grab onto them, and preach them like disciples. That's how rock works. So when a big company takes a big signal and tries to build a radio station around it, focused on PPM and profits, you become a target. Nothing the station does is good. They hire Pinfield for street cred, and it actually kills his street cred. They play certain established artists to attract listers, mix it with unknowns to attract fans, and they end up pissing off both groups. What made WNEW-FM work was that its success flew under the radar, for the most part, the financial pressures weren't as obvious, and they built their credibility during a short time when few people were watching, and built word of mouth. That never happened here. I don't think it can happen in the 21st century, just as a band can't duplicate what the Beatles did in 1964.
So you blow the whole thing up and turn the station over to a format where everyone knows how to play the game. And alternative rock goes to non-com college radio. Which, if you haven't noticed, is under fire by university suits.
The bad thing about the rock world is it hates the establishment and it hates success. Rock fans find unknown acts, grab onto them, and preach them like disciples. That's how rock works. So when a big company takes a big signal and tries to build a radio station around it, focused on PPM and profits, you become a target. Nothing the station does is good. They hire Pinfield for street cred, and it actually kills his street cred. They play certain established artists to attract listers, mix it with unknowns to attract fans, and they end up pissing off both groups. What made WNEW-FM work was that its success flew under the radar, for the most part, the financial pressures weren't as obvious, and they built their credibility during a short time when few people were watching, and built word of mouth. That never happened here. I don't think it can happen in the 21st century, just as a band can't duplicate what the Beatles did in 1964.
So you blow the whole thing up and turn the station over to a format where everyone knows how to play the game. And alternative rock goes to non-com college radio. Which, if you haven't noticed, is under fire by university suits.
So many issues, where to start?
WRXP was never a AAA station. They were an Alternative Station.
Emmis brought in a PD who knew NOTHING about New York radio or anything that's happened in NYC in the last 20 years. Did she know Graham Parker was huge in the market?
All they had to do was offer a CHOICE to listeners who would rather chew tin foil than listen to 104.3 but who were put off by the vaguely elitist vibe of FUV.
Maybe they could have invested in at least one "Name" New York jock.......not even the usual high priced retreads. I'm sure Jim Monahan could have been lured away from WDHA for a modest salary.
It's just too bad. It's why our industry is just about DEAD.
WRXP was never a AAA station. They were an Alternative Station.
Emmis brought in a PD who knew NOTHING about New York radio or anything that's happened in NYC in the last 20 years. Did she know Graham Parker was huge in the market?
All they had to do was offer a CHOICE to listeners who would rather chew tin foil than listen to 104.3 but who were put off by the vaguely elitist vibe of FUV.
Maybe they could have invested in at least one "Name" New York jock.......not even the usual high priced retreads. I'm sure Jim Monahan could have been lured away from WDHA for a modest salary.
It's just too bad. It's why our industry is just about DEAD.
dadgad said:
No...it's because doing something new or original is nitpiked til it's killed. But go back and rehire some old guy who once was somebody, and it's heralded as genius. Everybody's a critic. Everybody's that Mikey kid who hates everything. As I said in another post, it's why no one can duplicate the Beatles. You can't do it again, because it's been done before. They all want The Beatles themselves to come back, not someone who is like them. So people want WNEW-FM to come back. Anything else sucks. This was a station that tried to be all things to all people, and ended up alienating everyone.
dadgad said:
Here's the thing about that: As far as ratings go, WRXP was smack in the middle between those two. Between a .3 and a 4.9. Amazing. And it's being branded a flop, even by me. Yet it's getting about the same numbers as Kiss and Power. That's not too awful. So it's too successful to be cool, and not successful enough to stay on the air. Ultimately, it's not about the ratings, or the coolness, but about the money, and this station didn't make as much as it did as Smooth Jazz. It's one of the lowest billing stations in town. That's why it's a flop, not just because of the programming. A station with bad programming that makes money is still OK...lots of those in NYC. But the other way around won't work.
M
mredindc
Guest
Can't help but wonder if Dan H's post was ghostwritten by John Sebastian? You know, the ole "declare victory and success" even though all the relevant indicators prove otherwise. Why not just say, "We had the courage to try something different. We were dedicated, and worked hard. We just didn't get the desired results."? Stating the truth is far more honorable than trying to spin the facts to make ourselves feel better by blowing smoke. That doesn't fool anyone.
Here's my thought about Dan H. We see a lot of talk here about bringing country radio back to NYC. If anyone could have done it, it was Dan H. He presided over the resusitation of KPLX in Dallas. That station had been dead without a pulse, and he stuck with country (when everyone was saying he should change format), hired the right people, and came up with a winning combination, taking it from worst to first. He had the credibility to do that in NYC, but didn't. My feeling is that if Dan Halyburton couldn't get support for country radio in NYC, then no one can.
I didn't mean Emmis should have tried to recreate wnew . I was citing the fact that they didn't ever have a AAA outlet at 101.9
KBCO is a AAA station. There are a bunch around the country. and no need to list them here. WRXP sounded like NONE of them.
RXP sounded like FNX in Boston instead of KGSR in Austin or WXPN in Philly
Their program director came from an Alternative station in Atlanta. That's fine. You do what you know . Should have hired a PD from one of the heritage AAA stations that have had some success.
Yeah, Nik Carter, from what I've heard of him, should have been the morning guy, not Pinfield. But that wouldn't have saved a poorly programmed station.
KBCO is a AAA station. There are a bunch around the country. and no need to list them here. WRXP sounded like NONE of them.
RXP sounded like FNX in Boston instead of KGSR in Austin or WXPN in Philly
Their program director came from an Alternative station in Atlanta. That's fine. You do what you know . Should have hired a PD from one of the heritage AAA stations that have had some success.
Yeah, Nik Carter, from what I've heard of him, should have been the morning guy, not Pinfield. But that wouldn't have saved a poorly programmed station.
Classic Puker said:
Don't have to be forced... I fully agree.
Classic Puker said:
And that's why I said that there was another voice to be heard contrary. There were plenty of reasonable arguments against the format change and/or against this format change, even at the time. All I was positing is that the failure of the format was by no means assured. Failure to listen to and consider all perspectives is a stupid way to act in any business.
Classic Puker said:
We all agree -- or should agree -- that prejudice and stereotyping are wrong. But we also know that there are prejudices out there in every field and part of life, and that advertisers use their views as to who is reached in a demographic area in buying. In 2007, Arbitron felt the need to distribute information on why and how African-Americans buy more upscale than ad buyers were apparently thinking. (http://www.arbitron.com/downloads/BlackConsumerStudy2007.pdf). Per the same publication, NAC/Smooth Jazz was a distant 4th in reaching African-Americans 18+, behind Urban AC, Urban Contemporary and Rhythmic/CHR. I don't think many buyers were going to buy on CD 101.9 to reach a black audience, even with the best sales job, even though not buying there may have been a stupid decision. (And the fact that such a publication ever needed to be created by Arbitron, to show that African-Americans buy good wines, nice cars and hotel rooms, for example, makes my point about ad buyers being in the dark ages to their own detriment better than I ever could.)
Emmis' first mistake was hiring Leslie Fram -- she has no idea how to program to win. All one has to do is look at the track record of 99X in Atlanta when she was PD there. The station faded into irrelevance.
Emmis' second mistake was mixing nerd rock with dinosaur rock, although I will say the music mix has gotten substantially better within the past 12 months.
A mass appeal Modern Rock station similar to Radio 104-5 in Philly or a 25 - 44 y/o demo friendly Active Rock station akin to Boston's WAAF would've been better choices, IMO.
Emmis' second mistake was mixing nerd rock with dinosaur rock, although I will say the music mix has gotten substantially better within the past 12 months.
A mass appeal Modern Rock station similar to Radio 104-5 in Philly or a 25 - 44 y/o demo friendly Active Rock station akin to Boston's WAAF would've been better choices, IMO.
@dadgad: The problem is all of the "big name" New York rock jocks who once called the old WNEW-FM home are now at Q104.3 and CBS-FM. The aforementioned Nik Carter was a great hire, but unfortunately, management didn't retain his services...
@TheBigA: Bringing back The Beatles is going to be quite a task, considering half of them are now dead (not counting Pete Best, of course... although, if you want to consider the late Billy Preston as "the fifth Beatle," then, yes, throw in Best, and it would still be half).
@TheBigA: Bringing back The Beatles is going to be quite a task, considering half of them are now dead (not counting Pete Best, of course... although, if you want to consider the late Billy Preston as "the fifth Beatle," then, yes, throw in Best, and it would still be half).
MarkW said:
From what I've learned, Dan H. brought in Leslie Fram, who was fired from gig in Atlanta.
She replaced the first PD at RXP, who was originally brought on when the station was chill jazz. He got fired in '08 because of the bad ratings.
Also, I've heard that Dan H. was also fired, although in the press, he said that he left to start his own company.
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