Was Van Morrison's "Brown Eyed Girl" ever played on WSBA back in '67. I don't recall hearing it as a current on WLAN either. Did WFEC play it? Couldn't pick them up at the time. The lyrics may have been a little too much for back then, but it sure does get enough airplay these days. Also...it seems to me that at one time in the early 60's, WCMB 1460 (now the ticket) played Top 40. Maybe it was more of a chicken rocker.....but I do recall somewhat of a contemporary format that lasted until about '65 or '66. I remember Red McCarthy playing "Sherry" by the Four Seasons. Anybody?
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WSBA MYTHS AND LEGENDS
- Thread starter bossjock 56
- Start date
J
John-Summers
Guest
I remember "Brown Eyed Girl" getting played on WFEC. I don't know if they played the radio edit with the sex removed or not. Funny WSBA and WLAN didn't play that that version.
WCMB was Top 40 but never the station of choice once WSBA, then WFEC appeared. They would play one pop tune, then a schmaltzy adult tune, then a pop tune, and so on, to try and please everybody. At night they would have a younger guy on for about 3 hours doing straight Top 40. Some of their personalities, like Pete Wambach and Red McCarthy, were a bit long in the tooth to have any connection with the teen listeners. They always seemed like an apologetic Top 40 station geared toward people in the 30s or 40s. The finally gave it up for straight MOR around 1966 or 67.
Right now on e-bay there's an old WCMB music survey from 1965, just like other Top 40 stations published. I don't know who's selling it. Not me. One of the "Fabulous 14" hits was "I'm a Man" by the Yardbirds. I can't imagine Pete and Red playing that one!
Red had the Four Seasons on his show and Herman's Hermits too. Both appeared at Hershey Park and he had a longtime association with Hershey.
For anyone interested in some early WFEC history, go to books.google.com and search Billboard, WFEC. There is an interesting article about the station's debut and success, and a later article refuting the previous one, quoting Pete Wambach.
WCMB was Top 40 but never the station of choice once WSBA, then WFEC appeared. They would play one pop tune, then a schmaltzy adult tune, then a pop tune, and so on, to try and please everybody. At night they would have a younger guy on for about 3 hours doing straight Top 40. Some of their personalities, like Pete Wambach and Red McCarthy, were a bit long in the tooth to have any connection with the teen listeners. They always seemed like an apologetic Top 40 station geared toward people in the 30s or 40s. The finally gave it up for straight MOR around 1966 or 67.
Right now on e-bay there's an old WCMB music survey from 1965, just like other Top 40 stations published. I don't know who's selling it. Not me. One of the "Fabulous 14" hits was "I'm a Man" by the Yardbirds. I can't imagine Pete and Red playing that one!
Red had the Four Seasons on his show and Herman's Hermits too. Both appeared at Hershey Park and he had a longtime association with Hershey.
For anyone interested in some early WFEC history, go to books.google.com and search Billboard, WFEC. There is an interesting article about the station's debut and success, and a later article refuting the previous one, quoting Pete Wambach.
for the fun of hearing red mccarthy do a youtube search and put the name in and bill kauffman has an aircheck from 197? it is a freaking scream. hiya folks need to secure your future with a secure loan...go to harris savings and loans. folks you want a great meal...my friend at the embers in carlisle can make the meal of meals...even his wife helps in the kitchen. i admire a woman who stands behind her man. ya gotta love red...he was a scream...and what i can imagine never knowing him a good and wholesome man. what's that in 2009???
Thanks for that Billboard info, John! Don Clifton was the guy who did straight top 40 at night on WCMB. He was listed in the article as part of the original WFEC line up....hired away form WCMB. In the Wambach article, Pete told Billboard that WCMB was number one, followed by WHP in 2nd, WFEC in 3rd and tied for 4th was WKBO and WSBA (and sometimes WHYL). When did WSBA power up to 5KW? Seems to me that it wasn't until '62 0r '63. Did they go directional at that time? Seems Harrisburg city was always in a bit of a null. Great signal in some of the suburbs like Middletown and Highspire. Main lobe went toward Lancaster. Anyone have any info on that?
J
John-Summers
Guest
Al Wolfe was mentioned earlier in this thread. I just heard from a friend that Al has cancer and is not doing well, and undergoing hospice care. Al was the morning host on WSBA in the late 1960s - not sure of the time frame - with a quick wit and loopy sense of humor. He was as reserved off the air as he was crazy on the air. Al had transitioned to Sales and Creative Services when I worked at WSBA, and was always friendly to me. Al also has the distinction of being one of the local DJs who were called upon to guest-host "American Bandstand" in Philadelphia when Dick Clark was on vacation. Al was at WFBG in Altoona at the time. I hope his remaining time is peaceful.
J
John-Summers
Guest
Bossjock: I seem to recall WSBA went up to 5kw daytime around 1962 and became "The Mighty 910." The nighttime power remained 1kw. Same pattern day and night as they had to protect a Scranton station. I read about this somewhere and don't recall the exact details but I think when they went to 5kw the pattern had to be pulled in somewhat to the north, losing some of the Harrisburg area but gaining in York and Lancaster. Living in Harrisburg and listening to WSBA, the station never sounded local, technically speaking. It always sounded like it was coming from a distance, a little soft, and it also had that 910 harmonic whistle in the background.
Todd mentioned Bill Kauffman and some things he has put on YouTube. One is an aircheck of Bill on WLAN 1390 from around 1970 or 71. I couldn't hear WLAN in Harrisburg but based on that aircheck it sounded like a decent medium market Top 40 of the time. Was WLAN ever really Lancaster's big Top 40 or did they take a back seat to WSBA? Some good jocks went through that old building on Queen Street, like Tony Montgomery, Fred King and Ronnie G. Scheaffer, all of whom moved up the road to Harrisburg and WFEC.
Todd mentioned Bill Kauffman and some things he has put on YouTube. One is an aircheck of Bill on WLAN 1390 from around 1970 or 71. I couldn't hear WLAN in Harrisburg but based on that aircheck it sounded like a decent medium market Top 40 of the time. Was WLAN ever really Lancaster's big Top 40 or did they take a back seat to WSBA? Some good jocks went through that old building on Queen Street, like Tony Montgomery, Fred King and Ronnie G. Scheaffer, all of whom moved up the road to Harrisburg and WFEC.
The WSBA directional first went up in 1947. If I remember correctly Non-D day, directional at night.
The same actual towers 1,2, and 4 stood until we rebuilt the site a few years ago.
The 1961-1962 time frame for the 5KW day sounds right. I remember that there was a supporting 1961 full antenna proof in my files.
I'll ask Ray Ensminger or Dave Flenner when I talk to them next.
As an aside....
The day that we ceased operation from the old transmitter building, it was just a few days after the 65th anniversary
of beginning commercial operation. I hated to leave that old building.
The same actual towers 1,2, and 4 stood until we rebuilt the site a few years ago.
The 1961-1962 time frame for the 5KW day sounds right. I remember that there was a supporting 1961 full antenna proof in my files.
I'll ask Ray Ensminger or Dave Flenner when I talk to them next.
As an aside....
The day that we ceased operation from the old transmitter building, it was just a few days after the 65th anniversary
of beginning commercial operation. I hated to leave that old building.
J
John-Summers
Guest
Was 1947 when the move from 900 kc daytime only to 910 full time took place? I thought it was later, like the early 1950s, after the original WSBA-FM went dark.
Is it my imagination or are the four top beacons a lot brighter than they used to be? Seems like this changed in the last couple of years. At the time I worked there I don't think they were blinking at all, just on steadily, and I'm sure they weren't that bright.
Is it my imagination or are the four top beacons a lot brighter than they used to be? Seems like this changed in the last couple of years. At the time I worked there I don't think they were blinking at all, just on steadily, and I'm sure they weren't that bright.
WLAN's Lancaster impact during the 60's was strong. WLAN also powered up to 5KW about the same time period as WSBA. During the early stages of WSBA's Top 40 format in the late 50's and early 60's, WSBA pretty much ruled Lancaster County, especially after the power increase. I'm not sure when WLAN flipped, but it may not have been 'til about '60 or '61. WLAN took the younger crowd away from WSBA rather fast. WLAN had a more music concept.....and was a lot hipper. WLAN did have some oddities. They charted 60 songs...and had even more extras. From what I understand, the jocks brought in their own oldies. I once knew a guy back in the early 70's who got a weekend gig at 'LAN who had to stop at the old Two Guys store on his way to his first on air shift to buy 2 or 3 K-TEL albums. FM started taking over in the 70's and WLAN finally put the Top 40 on FM in 1979. Lancaster County was assigned lousy frequencies for it's AM stations. Most didn't cover the entire county, especially at night. In western Lancaster County, WSBA was still big right into the early 70's, because WLAN's night signal was so poor in places like Elizabethtown, Marietta, Mt. Joy and Columbia. WSBA was strong both day and night in these areas. Starting in the fall of '66....WFIL in Philly made it's famous flip. Their daytime signal was stong in Lancaster County. They had more impact on WSBA than WLAN. There was no nightime signal for 'FIL anywhere near Lancaster. It all went East.
John-Summers said:
I have that drop on my hard drive. Along with a LOT of other great bloopers and spoof spots from SBA.
Yes, the DA went up with the move to 910.
Interesting (to me at least), the array still sort of favored the lower side of the channel.
Tower #3 (with 1 being the northernmost) is where the original tower was placed.
That tower was replaced somewhere in the 80's. And we did the other three just a couple of years ago.
The ungodly bright new beacons are LEDs. Everytime I see them I think "Good GOD they're bright!"
Guess that I've left my mark on the York skyline for a while at least.
Interesting (to me at least), the array still sort of favored the lower side of the channel.
Tower #3 (with 1 being the northernmost) is where the original tower was placed.
That tower was replaced somewhere in the 80's. And we did the other three just a couple of years ago.
The ungodly bright new beacons are LEDs. Everytime I see them I think "Good GOD they're bright!"
Guess that I've left my mark on the York skyline for a while at least.
J
John-Summers
Guest
Tardis said:
They're even bright in the DAYTIME! I'm sure the folks who live in the condos across the Susquehanna Trail thank you every night. The people living in the ones just adjacent to the tower field were probably ionized too long ago to care!
In the mid to late 60's Bob Shipley was primarily involved with WSBA-FM and did news for the AM station. At that time, WSBA and Susquehanna had moved in a new direction with program staff that included George Burns and Jack Murphy. The push "from corporate" came from Art Carlson who had offices at the York station. Bob Harper who was brought into the market as "Harper" later went on the program a number of stations and eventually did quite well as a consultant. Those years were great fun with Ralph Lockwood, Chuck Frederick and others, especially Gene Burns who established a singular image in WSBA-Land. I was there during those times and remember them with great affection. I would love to know "where are the today" data about guys I worked with then :Jim Pride, Jerry Dyer, Jim O'Leary, Steve Fullerton and others. Dan Donvan (Blaine Harvey) was there in my time and went on to other stations. At WSBA , he hosted on of the GREAT oldies shows on Saturdat night. Still with all of this who could forget "Music from Messaih College."
Around the time WSBA and WLAN raised power and went directional, possibly earlier, there is a story that Lancaster Newspapers, which owned WLPA, (WGAL-AM) back then, had the opportunity to get 5 KW nondirectional somewhere in the low end of the band. The owners mistakenly decided to keep their little network of 1 KW stations in Lancaster, York, Harrisburg and Reading instead. All rumor, I have never seen it written down anywhere. The lack of any decent AM signals in Lancaster County helped the growth of FM.
In 1977, FM penetration in the Lancaster ratings was about 97 or 98%. It was the third highest FM penetration market in the country.
In 1977, FM penetration in the Lancaster ratings was about 97 or 98%. It was the third highest FM penetration market in the country.
J
John-Summers
Guest
It's unfortunate the Steinmans were so short-sighted. The original WGAL was one of America's first 100 licensed stations, as I recall. Is that correct? Too bad they kept it on a graveyard frequency. WKBO in Harrisburg is almost as old and certainly could have landed at a better location than 1230.
There is a story about WORK in York that I more or less confirmed through people who were there at the time. The Steinmans were offered the opportunity, by the FCC, to move WORK to 850 or 860 and go to 10,000 watts in the early 1950s. They declined. As I was told, they said radio was dead and TV was the medium of the future, and they were putting no more money into their AM stations. They didn't. I worked at two of them shortly after the Steinmans had sold them to new owners. Most of the equipment was prehistoric. WKBO used a Western Electric board dating from the 1930s, and we used that for a Top 40 format!
Supposedly, Susquehanna passed on moving WSBA to 580. WHP took the opportunity, although it probably seemed crazy at the time, moving from 1460 down to the lower end of the dial where there were no other local stations. Susquehanna also passed on applying for Channel 8, which was allocated to York at the time, while WGAL was on Channel 4. They took some bad advice and put Channel 43 on the air instead.
There is a story about WORK in York that I more or less confirmed through people who were there at the time. The Steinmans were offered the opportunity, by the FCC, to move WORK to 850 or 860 and go to 10,000 watts in the early 1950s. They declined. As I was told, they said radio was dead and TV was the medium of the future, and they were putting no more money into their AM stations. They didn't. I worked at two of them shortly after the Steinmans had sold them to new owners. Most of the equipment was prehistoric. WKBO used a Western Electric board dating from the 1930s, and we used that for a Top 40 format!
Supposedly, Susquehanna passed on moving WSBA to 580. WHP took the opportunity, although it probably seemed crazy at the time, moving from 1460 down to the lower end of the dial where there were no other local stations. Susquehanna also passed on applying for Channel 8, which was allocated to York at the time, while WGAL was on Channel 4. They took some bad advice and put Channel 43 on the air instead.
I worked for the Steinmans at WORK in York and I can confirm that the story about them having the chance to move to 860 on the dial at 10 K is correct. what a bunch of dopes. also they invested absolutly NO MONEY in equipment in any of there stations. I did not now about Susquhanna turning down the chance to grab channel 8 in the 50s in favor of channel 53 on the UHF band. as a kid living in York in the 50s I have vivid memories on 53 comming on the air ( the first UHF station in the united states i think) , but wow ....if they had just taken channel 8 instead...... did tune to channel 53 after our family got a tv set that could pick up UHF every afternoon to American Bandstand.
Moving WSBA to 860 in the fifties would have been a serious trade-off. Yes, it would have improved the day coverage at least somewhat, but at the expense of any nighttime coverage at all, since 860 was (and still is) a Canadian clear channel.
By 1953, there were already daytimers on 860 in Pittsburgh (WHOD, the future WAMO) and in Philadelphia (WTEL, which had taken the tradeoff and moved to daytime-only operation on 860 from a share-time with WHAT on 1340), and neither had much in the way of power - each was then just 250 watts. WAYE in Baltimore came along a year or two later, also a daytimer.
The Pittsburgh and Baltimore stations would eventually get night service when the rules were relaxed in the 90s, but not any significant power: 66 watts in Baltimore, 830 in Pittsburgh.
Even if WSBA on 860 had been able to crank up day power to 10 kW with a directional array, it still would have ended up with a signal not much better than what it had on 910.
(I suppose it's possible that the channel WSBA could have gone to was 850, where WJAC in Johnstown eventually ended up with 10 kW day and night, but that came with compromises, too: a nine-tower directional array that required a lot of land and a lot of work to keep in tune. And a move to 850 seems a bit unlikely, since WEEU in Reading was already on the frequency at that point.)
I should note, also, that in my travels as a radio historian I've heard a lot of "the FCC offered WXXX a chance to go to 50 kilowatts but they turned it down" stories, and that many of them, if not most, have turned out to be apocryphal.
By 1953, there were already daytimers on 860 in Pittsburgh (WHOD, the future WAMO) and in Philadelphia (WTEL, which had taken the tradeoff and moved to daytime-only operation on 860 from a share-time with WHAT on 1340), and neither had much in the way of power - each was then just 250 watts. WAYE in Baltimore came along a year or two later, also a daytimer.
The Pittsburgh and Baltimore stations would eventually get night service when the rules were relaxed in the 90s, but not any significant power: 66 watts in Baltimore, 830 in Pittsburgh.
Even if WSBA on 860 had been able to crank up day power to 10 kW with a directional array, it still would have ended up with a signal not much better than what it had on 910.
(I suppose it's possible that the channel WSBA could have gone to was 850, where WJAC in Johnstown eventually ended up with 10 kW day and night, but that came with compromises, too: a nine-tower directional array that required a lot of land and a lot of work to keep in tune. And a move to 850 seems a bit unlikely, since WEEU in Reading was already on the frequency at that point.)
I should note, also, that in my travels as a radio historian I've heard a lot of "the FCC offered WXXX a chance to go to 50 kilowatts but they turned it down" stories, and that many of them, if not most, have turned out to be apocryphal.
J
John-Summers
Guest
The station in question was WORK, not WSBA. While 860 may have been unlikely, neither WJAC nor WEEU were always on 850. Perhaps 850 was available at the time WORK was supposedly offered this opportunity. As you say, there are many such legends and this may or may not be one of them. The point was, however, that many stations dating to the 1920s and 30s are on graveyard frequencies today simply because their owners lacked the initiative or finances to move or improve them when the the AM band was much less crowded.
The WSBA 580 story came from someone at Susquehanna, but that doesn't make it true. May just be an often-told legend.
The WSBA 580 story came from someone at Susquehanna, but that doesn't make it true. May just be an often-told legend.
Slightly off-topic question: where did the phrase "graveyard frequency" originate from? I am aware that these are low-power, high end of the band frequencies, hence a "dead" part of the AM band. However, the phrase has been around many years. Ironically, their night power is so low that you probably wouldn't be able to hear them in graveyards at night Any ideas as to its origination?
Any ideas as to its origination?- Status