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WSM-AM
- Thread starter sweet sour Jerry
- Start date
TheBigA said:
And there was a theme park that came before the hotel. The theme park has been gone long enough now that some of the people trying to understand who does and does not understand broadcasting probably don't consider what impact, if any, closing the theme park may have had on maintaining audience for the station, and maybe having some influence on the direction of Country Music.
I'm sure we could all fight about this, but you have to also give WSM-TV (back before the shell it is today as WSMV on a budget) a lot of credit for building the perfect empire ALONG with the radio stations. NLT was probably the best example of full circle marketing in the South back in the golden years. A 31-story self promotioning skyscraper dominated the city, Opryland was the pride of this city for years (yeah, I know...it got allegedly bland, outdated, boring. I call that BS!) that attracted untold amounts of tourists and conventions. Then came the hotel, which, from phase one was really pretty awesome. All the pieces of the puzzle fit. When various pieces were sold off, things never worked right. I know Opryland park dealt with space issues, age issues, marketing issues, blah, blah, but it was and still would be America's theme park today. It was decided that it was not making enough money and all the upgrades would be to expensive. On paper to the accountants it made sense to close it. What no one could possibly figure would be the countless millions upon millions of dollars that would not be spend in Nashville once the park closed. If the park were still open (instead of a stupid cheesy mall that they should bulldoze and consider it an act of God's GRACE and spend the money to build Opryland back) the Opry would have better attendance, new tributes to the stars could have been built, the radio station(s) could be central to the Opryland theme park and countless new shows would have brought Nashvillians to the area. In fact, with music companies in such trouble, maybe they could actually regain a bit of a monopoly with using this complex as a major draw. Investment would be huge and it would take time and lots of effort. I think it could certainly pay off. But, greed and closed minds will justify why it can't be done vs. it MUST be done.
Instead, you have a stand-alone forgotten AM station that probably 10% of the city even knows is a top grade AM signal, a tired and overplayed Grand Ole Opry that will probably continue to just perform after the flood damage is all fixed and a hotel that will open with average fanfare and offer more boring, bland restaurants and not be innovative. Gaylord will spend all their time and money lobbying against the bright new convention center downtown and sit back and blindly deny and quietly watch their hotel falter in rooms filled each night. The glitz could be returned (and yeah it will cost countless mega millions - but so did a stupid copycat mall) if someone with vision similar to the old profesionals at National Life would take on this project and dream of making Music City America's true Music City again with a theme park, maybe a way upgraded mall, underground parking to utilize the space and a brilliantly updated hotel and Opry showplace and complex, then, and only then would WSM-AM have a snowball's chance. And FTR, I am not saying all that should be built to "save" WSM-AM. It's the other way around. Gaylord just bought land near Opryland. There has never been easier access to the area and tourists will come back. Nashville would be a Top 10 tourist town for many years to come if this all happened. GAYLORD needs to grow a pair and figure out a way to highlight the convention center and the convention center reciprocate. Instead, Gaylord will probably just ask for more tax breaks and continue to underwhelm the local market. Good luck.
Instead, you have a stand-alone forgotten AM station that probably 10% of the city even knows is a top grade AM signal, a tired and overplayed Grand Ole Opry that will probably continue to just perform after the flood damage is all fixed and a hotel that will open with average fanfare and offer more boring, bland restaurants and not be innovative. Gaylord will spend all their time and money lobbying against the bright new convention center downtown and sit back and blindly deny and quietly watch their hotel falter in rooms filled each night. The glitz could be returned (and yeah it will cost countless mega millions - but so did a stupid copycat mall) if someone with vision similar to the old profesionals at National Life would take on this project and dream of making Music City America's true Music City again with a theme park, maybe a way upgraded mall, underground parking to utilize the space and a brilliantly updated hotel and Opry showplace and complex, then, and only then would WSM-AM have a snowball's chance. And FTR, I am not saying all that should be built to "save" WSM-AM. It's the other way around. Gaylord just bought land near Opryland. There has never been easier access to the area and tourists will come back. Nashville would be a Top 10 tourist town for many years to come if this all happened. GAYLORD needs to grow a pair and figure out a way to highlight the convention center and the convention center reciprocate. Instead, Gaylord will probably just ask for more tax breaks and continue to underwhelm the local market. Good luck.
Tibbs2 said:
You can't turn back the hands of time 15 years and expect everything else to be the same. The world has changed. And rebuilding a theme park isn't going to revitalize AM radio, resuscitate the record industry, and improve Opry attendence. It's not going to happen. While you're at it, why not force Viacom to sell CMT and TNN back to Gaylord? Things change, and everything around it changes. I think you're in dreamland. If all it took to do what you suggest was rebuilding a theme park, it would have happened a long time ago.
I'd rather be in dreamland than be in practical land, Big A. I guess I could post from real world overviews that prove that little minds and little imagination allow for stagnation and failure. You're telling me that Walt Disney couldn't succeed in 2010? Sure he would update and continue to inspire. Opryland could come back with an updated style and would do just fine if there was VISION. Look, I could care a less about the majority of country music. But, I know that in ten years artists the likes of Alan Jackson, Reba, even Dolly will not have the same exposure or ease in getting into the market place and churning the sales or profits. Should we just send all those budding performers home? It's ALWAYS about pieces of a dismantled puzzle. Where do YOU see Opryland Hotel in five years? 50% occupancy rate? Maybe. Overflow for downtown? Who knows. I call that no vision and failure. In your logic...why rebuild? Tear it down as well. Who needs a dream or vision. Hotels old. Has been. Like Opryland. Like AM radio.
I don't want to turn back the hands of time 15 years. I DO want someone in Nashville to step up and put us back on the TOP of the tourist map. So much has come to Nashville since Opryland closed that would make the total experience incredible. I never said a theme park will bring WSM-AM back. It will NOT. READ IT AGAIN. Nada. You're seeing AM radio taking the hits that FM will take in 5-10 years. What will this industry do? 100% CERTAIN: Screw it up. That's what. VISIONs already being dismantled. That's what happened on Briley Parkway. I didn't say a theme park is all that it will take to fix it. It's one missing piece. I also would cringe to think people not in a dream world will be the one's making decisions for radios or Opryland's future. Because THAT kind of thinking, while probably practical and predictable, is exactly what this industry (and world) doesn't need. Hey, I gotta great idea. Let's build a half-a$$ outlet mall and see how many stupid country-luvin' hicks will drive 300 miles to buy a $20 shirt they could get at their local Wal-mart
for $5. That's progress. That's setting Nashville apart as a destination. Forget about the forethought and inspiration. Let's just call it a typical, uninspiring dream come true.
I guess, by being practical, Universal shouldn't have built in Orlando. Disney shouldn't be spending so much on the Magic Kingdom upgrade because one day theme parks of that level will be outdated? What do they know? Big A - seriously, where is your vision?
I am pretty sure that WSM-AM will not matter to 99% of Nashville in a decade. Heck, probably it does not matter NOW. Why not just shut it off now? While you're at it, since country music sales are tougher and music row is not what it used to be let's turn it into a parking lot for downtown. Internet radio is coming. Times are changing. Nothing FM radio does can stop progress. Stop trying to compete now. Besides all the music today is pretty bad and no ones making any money anyway. SIGN IT OFF. It's the smart practical approach. Things change, right? Be proactive. Look - Talk about cutting edge proactive and real world - College students are the next generation of ex-radio listeners. It makes sense to be selling off ALL those stations before they're worth the price of your car. Do it while the gettins good. No one listens. Why waste the electricity.
With some due respect, I'd fire a person for having no vision. I think your vision of status quo is a much worse place to be than in my dream world. So far, I've done pretty decently in life taking those dreams to the drawing board and beyond to reality. I am hopeful that you have also had success in making things happen. Just sayin, I DONT AGREE with you on being so rigid and all about logic. That's often the kiss of death. Flip side, I've made my share of business screw ups. But Big A, I hope to never, ever stop dreaming. That scares me more than running out of love, hope or oxygen. Big A, again, I mean no malice toward you as a person. We'd probably be great friends. But, I just don't see why everything has to fit in a perfect little box because "that's the way it is." No. That's guaranteed failure in my dream world. Never play it safe.
I don't want to turn back the hands of time 15 years. I DO want someone in Nashville to step up and put us back on the TOP of the tourist map. So much has come to Nashville since Opryland closed that would make the total experience incredible. I never said a theme park will bring WSM-AM back. It will NOT. READ IT AGAIN. Nada. You're seeing AM radio taking the hits that FM will take in 5-10 years. What will this industry do? 100% CERTAIN: Screw it up. That's what. VISIONs already being dismantled. That's what happened on Briley Parkway. I didn't say a theme park is all that it will take to fix it. It's one missing piece. I also would cringe to think people not in a dream world will be the one's making decisions for radios or Opryland's future. Because THAT kind of thinking, while probably practical and predictable, is exactly what this industry (and world) doesn't need. Hey, I gotta great idea. Let's build a half-a$$ outlet mall and see how many stupid country-luvin' hicks will drive 300 miles to buy a $20 shirt they could get at their local Wal-mart
for $5. That's progress. That's setting Nashville apart as a destination. Forget about the forethought and inspiration. Let's just call it a typical, uninspiring dream come true.
I guess, by being practical, Universal shouldn't have built in Orlando. Disney shouldn't be spending so much on the Magic Kingdom upgrade because one day theme parks of that level will be outdated? What do they know? Big A - seriously, where is your vision?
I am pretty sure that WSM-AM will not matter to 99% of Nashville in a decade. Heck, probably it does not matter NOW. Why not just shut it off now? While you're at it, since country music sales are tougher and music row is not what it used to be let's turn it into a parking lot for downtown. Internet radio is coming. Times are changing. Nothing FM radio does can stop progress. Stop trying to compete now. Besides all the music today is pretty bad and no ones making any money anyway. SIGN IT OFF. It's the smart practical approach. Things change, right? Be proactive. Look - Talk about cutting edge proactive and real world - College students are the next generation of ex-radio listeners. It makes sense to be selling off ALL those stations before they're worth the price of your car. Do it while the gettins good. No one listens. Why waste the electricity.
With some due respect, I'd fire a person for having no vision. I think your vision of status quo is a much worse place to be than in my dream world. So far, I've done pretty decently in life taking those dreams to the drawing board and beyond to reality. I am hopeful that you have also had success in making things happen. Just sayin, I DONT AGREE with you on being so rigid and all about logic. That's often the kiss of death. Flip side, I've made my share of business screw ups. But Big A, I hope to never, ever stop dreaming. That scares me more than running out of love, hope or oxygen. Big A, again, I mean no malice toward you as a person. We'd probably be great friends. But, I just don't see why everything has to fit in a perfect little box because "that's the way it is." No. That's guaranteed failure in my dream world. Never play it safe.
A lot of business “visionaries” took a gamble. If a business is a “sure thing” some else is doing it and it is too late to get in that business without serious $$ and your rate of return is usually less than bank CDs. Disney’s Florida operation was a huge gamble for Disney. At the time Orlando was not at the top of anyone’s destination list.
I am not a radio historian, but there is a tale going around the Pittsburg board about the “old” WTAE Channel Four and 1250 AM. David Eduardo should have the facts, but in the 1940’s Mexico allowed a directional 50Kw signal going away from Mexico for the Pittsburg area. WTAE had the chance move to 1220 and built a real challenger to KDKA. This was before the rust set in and IIRC Pittsburg was a Top 12 market. WTAE’s owner’s saw no “future” in radio they were going TV. 1220 ended up in Cleveland and made some serious $$ in the late 50’s thru the early 80’s. IIRC Nationwide Insurance Company owned 1220. A huge number of people wrote off radio when TV came along. I know there huge problems with AM some of which or might not be technically fixable. Some of the old analog TV band is not really suited for cellular type applications. The pirates already are using 87.7 in several areas. I feel in the not too some future the AM operators will be give a change to swap for “new” FM band. The FCC allowed some interference prone stations to migrate to 1600 + in the past. If you have an operating AM station that you do not want: I will buy it for $1. You get a tax break and I will gamble on the future.
I am not a radio historian, but there is a tale going around the Pittsburg board about the “old” WTAE Channel Four and 1250 AM. David Eduardo should have the facts, but in the 1940’s Mexico allowed a directional 50Kw signal going away from Mexico for the Pittsburg area. WTAE had the chance move to 1220 and built a real challenger to KDKA. This was before the rust set in and IIRC Pittsburg was a Top 12 market. WTAE’s owner’s saw no “future” in radio they were going TV. 1220 ended up in Cleveland and made some serious $$ in the late 50’s thru the early 80’s. IIRC Nationwide Insurance Company owned 1220. A huge number of people wrote off radio when TV came along. I know there huge problems with AM some of which or might not be technically fixable. Some of the old analog TV band is not really suited for cellular type applications. The pirates already are using 87.7 in several areas. I feel in the not too some future the AM operators will be give a change to swap for “new” FM band. The FCC allowed some interference prone stations to migrate to 1600 + in the past. If you have an operating AM station that you do not want: I will buy it for $1. You get a tax break and I will gamble on the future.
secondchoice said:
While I had never heard this story, and cant find documentation it sounds totally believable, although the TV part may be premature 1220 everged from NARBA as a Mexican clear with Canadian secondary night usage, but one powerful station was later showehorned in for the area you speak of. WGAR went on the air with 5 kw on 1220 in early 1945, I think... and in a few years was up to 50 kw.
I'm not sure that TV was the issue, as this all took place in the War years. I'm thinking that the WTAE folks likely thought that the existing coverage of the metro was more than adequate on 1250... not knowing about suburban sprawl that would occur after the War was over. Still, it's a good example of lack of vision.
Tibbs2 said:
I don't know that I gave any advice in this thread.
The reality is that the company and the people who created the Opryland Theme Park with the hotel and the cable channel aren't around any more. The company and people who acquired them decided it was too big to manage. It's extremely unlikely that they will reverse themselves. And there's nothing anyone can doi about that. You play the cards you're dealt, and you don't moan how things would have been better if you just had a couple of aces.
Now realistically if another company wants to come in to Nashville and try and do the same thing National Life did, they'll find there's ample land to build on, broadcast properties they could buy or create alliances with, a government willing to offer tax breaks, and see if lightning can strike twice in the same place. But other than that, you can't force someone else to spend their money to do what you or other people might want. If it's your money, then you can do what you want. That's the real world, as ugly and as imperfect as it might be.
DavidEduardo said:
Here is a link: http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=175456.0
I have heard the 1220 Pittsburg miss from an "old" contract engineer in the 1980's one who did some work in Cleveland in the 1950's. Unforunately anybody who can confirm or kill this story is not around. WGAR did make a few $$ and sounded very good even in the 1980's. Now I think it is a religious station.
secondchoice said:
WGAR began, pre-NARBA, on 1450 and then moved, 5kw day 1 kw nights, to 1480 at NARBA time. It was authorized to move to 1220 with 5 kw in 1943, which explains how they did this in the middle of W.W. II when new transmitters were very hard if not impossible to get. They made the move in 1944. In 1947 they changed to 50 kw.
An interesting article about "Television After the War" is in Radio Annual, 1943, pp. 933. It makes the case that it would not be until after the war (and on the return of normal equipment deliveries) that TV could return from its "dim out" of the War years. Since the change to 1220 was apparently made with little cost by WGAR, WTAE which was much closer in frequency (1250) post NARBA and could have done the change more easily. So, given the fact that the change could have been made with nearly no cost, and the end of the war was certainly seen to be some time away, I can't see how that story would be true... but stranger things have happened.
Meanwhile, back in Nashville from our journey to Pittsburgh and other points north, I REMEMBER when WSM was a good station, making money, booming out --- later in stereo, and was owned by a company run by an insurance company. There was also a television station and an entertainment park.
The hotel, as Mr. Bud Wendell enjoyed telling us, was NOT an afterthought, but grew from an idea of having a motel for park guests to stay. But as one of the other 'old guards' pointed out, if they're gonna stay in a motel the company owned, why not make it a hotel where you could sell them gifts, meals and other visitor type things. From these meetings, other ideas like a golf course and a river showboat grew. I'm not sure the part the CMT and TNN played, but their early days on the air were.....well, they were on the air and then they got serious. When WSM moved out on the Parkway...TNN was not expected to make a profit for 5 - 7 years.....but I understand they DID IT in less than half that.
The sad part, when the insurance company was taken over in an unfriendly buyout -- and the buyer didn't want anything but the insurance company. National Life put the other businesses on the block.
Along came Mr. Gaylord on his white horse with his radio and t-v stations to save the day...just like Mighty Mouse. I remember Minnie Pearl telling Mr Gaylord at the General Jackson christening...."Don't fix anything if it ain't broke. He laughed and agreed. [color]
I've heard stories we all weren't making money. But it was after the company went public....and suddenly the 'people' who had made the company what it was was less important. The bottom line was the stockholders.
To show more profit, I've heard, CMT and TNN were sold, oh, and you may remember the park. After 2 years and a couple of new rides, the park closed to make way for a....(trumpets here)....BIG shopping mall. We received T-shirts, the mayor and maybe the governor were there...and here it came. The 'Old Guard' from the beginning was being 'retired' and down-sizing began. At that point, the hotel became the BIG DOG. We've all watched what happened since then. And as sad as it is -- it was the building of the hotel to help the park that eventually led to its downfall.
I may have gotten things a little out of order...feel free to correct me where necessary...and thank you David for the return to Nashville, Home of the BIG 650 WSM AM. {may it RIP}
Day after day we have topics in this forum about how radio has changed during the years. But somehow radio people may not realize just about EVERY line of business has had big, big changes.
I don't have a clue what the REAL story may be, what people in the know might be able to tell us, but I remember well what made the news (nationally) when the decision was made to shut down the theme park and bulldoze it.
Opryland in it's early days was a hit, and the synergy worked. People made Nashville a destination so they could visit the theme park and they visited the Opry and they visited other amusement sites, some owned by Gaylord. It seemed like a magic story that would never end. But they went to sleep at the switch. There had been an explosion in new theme parks around the country. With more and more competition, park operators got in the habit of adding a new roller coaster or other thrilling ride EVERY YEAR. But not Opryland. My memory of my visit there is that they didn't have a lot of room they could have expanded. It started out as a popular and I assume successful park. But through the years there was no expansion, no new rides. The management at Gaylord supposedly woke up to the fact (and had hard input from consultants) that if you are going to continue in the park business, you must invest this much in refurbing, adding new rides, etc. (Make hand gestures here like you were telling how big the fish was you caught yesterday.) The competition was exploding in the park business. The Gaylord's decided the poker game was getting too rich for their blood and they decided to just shut it down rather than gamble riverboat-loads of new investment.
It seemed brilliant at the time. The "factory outlet mall" wave was at a fever pitch across the country. So they jumped in and cut a deal for their amusement park land to get in on the new discount mall craze. Now we have a new problem, and it is the same problem all over again. Other mall operators keep increasing the size of new outlet malls and offering new bells and whistles. Every city of any size has a "Mills" outlet mall and if you want Opry Mills to fill the hotel and fill the Opry house, you have to do for the mall what you were not willing to do to the park: spend money every year or two to make it bigger and better and outshine all the other big malls tourists will pass to get to Opry Mills.
I don't know the Gaylord Corporation of today. They may be great. They may be jerks. But no matter what business you are in, you will get hammered as every line of business in the world gets hammered by a competitor following the Walmart pattern of growth and being bigger and bigger.
I don't have a clue what the REAL story may be, what people in the know might be able to tell us, but I remember well what made the news (nationally) when the decision was made to shut down the theme park and bulldoze it.
Opryland in it's early days was a hit, and the synergy worked. People made Nashville a destination so they could visit the theme park and they visited the Opry and they visited other amusement sites, some owned by Gaylord. It seemed like a magic story that would never end. But they went to sleep at the switch. There had been an explosion in new theme parks around the country. With more and more competition, park operators got in the habit of adding a new roller coaster or other thrilling ride EVERY YEAR. But not Opryland. My memory of my visit there is that they didn't have a lot of room they could have expanded. It started out as a popular and I assume successful park. But through the years there was no expansion, no new rides. The management at Gaylord supposedly woke up to the fact (and had hard input from consultants) that if you are going to continue in the park business, you must invest this much in refurbing, adding new rides, etc. (Make hand gestures here like you were telling how big the fish was you caught yesterday.) The competition was exploding in the park business. The Gaylord's decided the poker game was getting too rich for their blood and they decided to just shut it down rather than gamble riverboat-loads of new investment.
It seemed brilliant at the time. The "factory outlet mall" wave was at a fever pitch across the country. So they jumped in and cut a deal for their amusement park land to get in on the new discount mall craze. Now we have a new problem, and it is the same problem all over again. Other mall operators keep increasing the size of new outlet malls and offering new bells and whistles. Every city of any size has a "Mills" outlet mall and if you want Opry Mills to fill the hotel and fill the Opry house, you have to do for the mall what you were not willing to do to the park: spend money every year or two to make it bigger and better and outshine all the other big malls tourists will pass to get to Opry Mills.
I don't know the Gaylord Corporation of today. They may be great. They may be jerks. But no matter what business you are in, you will get hammered as every line of business in the world gets hammered by a competitor following the Walmart pattern of growth and being bigger and bigger.
Thanks as always Buddy Sadler - you are a great Nashvillian! It's that kind of info that proves that all those pieces of the great puzzle made up a very exceptional business model and it was
dismantled by MORONS with no VISION. They sold off the assets for fractions of what the overall package could have made Gaylord and Nashville. I DO take it personally. Lots of Nashvillians do as well. Some people say it was their right to sell those assets. I agree. I simply don't think it was the right move. I didn't get a call asking my opinion. I wasn't a majority stockholder. What's done is done. It probably will not come back in any form or fashion. I totally know that. Big deal at this point. Doesn't mean we can't learn from the massive mistakes made. Sadly, I see radio corporations doing many similar bad moves in the name of stockholders short term profit motives and often in my opinion actually violating their fiduciary responsibility. So, it goes in America in 2010. Sorry Buddy, I am with BigA. Tear down that radio tower and put up a parking lot. No one cares.
Just kidding.
dismantled by MORONS with no VISION. They sold off the assets for fractions of what the overall package could have made Gaylord and Nashville. I DO take it personally. Lots of Nashvillians do as well. Some people say it was their right to sell those assets. I agree. I simply don't think it was the right move. I didn't get a call asking my opinion. I wasn't a majority stockholder. What's done is done. It probably will not come back in any form or fashion. I totally know that. Big deal at this point. Doesn't mean we can't learn from the massive mistakes made. Sadly, I see radio corporations doing many similar bad moves in the name of stockholders short term profit motives and often in my opinion actually violating their fiduciary responsibility. So, it goes in America in 2010. Sorry Buddy, I am with BigA. Tear down that radio tower and put up a parking lot. No one cares.
Just kidding.Here's an easy lesson: If you start a business, set up a contingency plan if the people who founded the business either die or leave. That's really the lesson here. Ed Gaylord got it. In 1983, he knew what he was buying. But by the 90s, he was over 75, and was heading to pasture. His family wanted cash. They weren't riding on the same train as Ed. Not unusual. Lots of others have had this happen, including Vanderbilt. That's the problem with a family business. Once the patriarch is gone, there's often no Act II. Going public was to raise investment capital. And to provide the Gaylord family with a pile of cash. But the investment money was needed to expand. Not in Nashville, but in Texas. Big mistake. Then Orlando. Another mistake. But the biggest one was still to come: Washington DC. Hoo boy! The delays were incredible! The cost overruns incredible! Nashville was mortgaged to pay off the other locations. What a mess!
Lots of people kicked the tires at Opryland for a long time. Several kicked them more than once. One of them was Disney, who was still interested as late as 2003. But the potential for growth just wasn't there, and it was really overpriced. So now what? What happens if a bigger hotel company (you know who) buys Gaylord. Do you think they'll keep a 12th place AM station and the Opryhouse? Folks...if you don't like what's happened out there during the last ten years, wait til you see what's happening next. I'm not talking status quo. If you're not growing, you're dying. Take a look at what's not growing.
Lots of people kicked the tires at Opryland for a long time. Several kicked them more than once. One of them was Disney, who was still interested as late as 2003. But the potential for growth just wasn't there, and it was really overpriced. So now what? What happens if a bigger hotel company (you know who) buys Gaylord. Do you think they'll keep a 12th place AM station and the Opryhouse? Folks...if you don't like what's happened out there during the last ten years, wait til you see what's happening next. I'm not talking status quo. If you're not growing, you're dying. Take a look at what's not growing.
A couple or things. As we heard...and heard often. Opryland was never intended to be in competition with other 'theme' parks with new rides every year. It was to be an 'entertainment' park with live shows. some of the best talent ever came through here. they could audition for a park show and be a stary on sattellite television and never have to leave Briley Parkway. That was the park's destination from the beginning....entertainment. They listened to what the public said. NO ENTERTAINMENT IN NASHVILLE. One summer Opryland booked STARS (and not just Opry stars) to do daily shows in the parks. Lost their butt. People had complained but didn't show up enough to support them.
Don't believe Gaylord planned to stay in the 'mall' business long and they didn't. They sold their share quite a while ago. The boat and golf can still be included in packages for the Hotel.
It was a great place to work in the 80s and 90s...and I still get a good feeling to see those call letters when something is taped from the Opry. I wasn't like Kyle Cantrell who looked at it as a destination -- when I went to work there in 1980...it was a job. But I never worked, in 45 years, at another station like that one. Was I upset when I was retired? Sure. But it was all business and they were even good to me then. Much more than they had to be. My thanks to Al Voecks for hiring me wayyyy backkk then....
Don't believe Gaylord planned to stay in the 'mall' business long and they didn't. They sold their share quite a while ago. The boat and golf can still be included in packages for the Hotel.
It was a great place to work in the 80s and 90s...and I still get a good feeling to see those call letters when something is taped from the Opry. I wasn't like Kyle Cantrell who looked at it as a destination -- when I went to work there in 1980...it was a job. But I never worked, in 45 years, at another station like that one. Was I upset when I was retired? Sure. But it was all business and they were even good to me then. Much more than they had to be. My thanks to Al Voecks for hiring me wayyyy backkk then....
[
Uh-Oh ---- did we agree on something BigA? Dammit.
I think it's also interesting to understand that a few ex-Disney execs working for Gaylord helped make the decision to close Opryland Theme Park. IIRC, it made about $1 M in profit it's last year. Not a huge return on a single investment, but considering what it's marketing/mystique/cache brought in to other associated businesses it would be a substantial indirect amount, I would think.
One of those ex-Disney execs is a friend of mine and he says that IF they had it to do over again, they would not have pulled the plug. BigA, I don't know the exact figures or losses on all the properties that you mentioned, but I do know that he told me three or four years (while having dinner overlooking the Magic Kingdom of all places and that it took him moving back to Orlando to get and miss what Gaylord/Nashville had) that he still doesn't sleep at night for the demise for two reasons:
1.) Shortsighted run and hide mentality was a knee-jerk reaction and they over reacted.
2.) Billions of potential tie-in dollars lost. The park was the glue that held the entire property together. If they had added the mall nearby, all parts would have probably been even more successful. But the most telling thing is that IF they had been visionaries instead of reactionaries, they could have had a mini-Hollywood concept (music, movies, television, etc.) based around country music, tied in with music labels and profitted from literally every song sold centered right on a golden piece of land.
Based upon the additonal info you added, they sold the golden goose to pay for some rotten eggs. It's understandable. It happens. But wow. What a mistake. I do wonder if anyone in the family after Ed even really cared or knew just what they had and lost? It makes you wonder. Like ya said "no growth = death."
With you. Don't ever like to see things decline at all, but sometimes the quick fix will cost you so much more than taking things to the top level. Then again, nothing is guaranteed to always bring in a profit. Trust me, been there before. But, you have to keep exploring options.
Uh-Oh ---- did we agree on something BigA? Dammit.
I think it's also interesting to understand that a few ex-Disney execs working for Gaylord helped make the decision to close Opryland Theme Park. IIRC, it made about $1 M in profit it's last year. Not a huge return on a single investment, but considering what it's marketing/mystique/cache brought in to other associated businesses it would be a substantial indirect amount, I would think.
One of those ex-Disney execs is a friend of mine and he says that IF they had it to do over again, they would not have pulled the plug. BigA, I don't know the exact figures or losses on all the properties that you mentioned, but I do know that he told me three or four years (while having dinner overlooking the Magic Kingdom of all places and that it took him moving back to Orlando to get and miss what Gaylord/Nashville had) that he still doesn't sleep at night for the demise for two reasons:
1.) Shortsighted run and hide mentality was a knee-jerk reaction and they over reacted.
2.) Billions of potential tie-in dollars lost. The park was the glue that held the entire property together. If they had added the mall nearby, all parts would have probably been even more successful. But the most telling thing is that IF they had been visionaries instead of reactionaries, they could have had a mini-Hollywood concept (music, movies, television, etc.) based around country music, tied in with music labels and profitted from literally every song sold centered right on a golden piece of land.
Based upon the additonal info you added, they sold the golden goose to pay for some rotten eggs. It's understandable. It happens. But wow. What a mistake. I do wonder if anyone in the family after Ed even really cared or knew just what they had and lost? It makes you wonder. Like ya said "no growth = death."
With you. Don't ever like to see things decline at all, but sometimes the quick fix will cost you so much more than taking things to the top level. Then again, nothing is guaranteed to always bring in a profit. Trust me, been there before. But, you have to keep exploring options.
TheBigA said:
gotta agree: ask anyone in Louisville about what happened when Barry Bingham decided he'd had enough of his kid's greed
(at one time Bingham owned WHAS-AM 840 [50kw] WHAS-FM 97.5 [market's only 100kw] WHAS-TV 11 [CBS affiliate] and
both daily newspapers [Courier-Journal and Louisville Times].
Bingham sold everything to stop his kids from fueding over them...a quick Google search can explain much better than I can.
Because we can't automate performers good and bad how long before the Opry itself is dead?
It lost a lot of heritage and the redneck culture when it moved from Ryman. Redneck folks can admit that. Too much change for the audience that brought it. Closing the park wasn't enough.
Made the mistake of ordering Dominos at the hotel. Dominos called back and made clear they could not deliver there. They would meet us off property. Ordered a pizza at the hotel. What a horrible product, like every other dropping covered product there.
My advice for Gaylord.
If they want to use WSM to sell tickets:
Have those new performers and old performers on air every day. Beats the bland crap they have now. Showcase studios need to showcase product.
Live performance made the Opry. Let WSM do this in studio. How many new artists would this bring in to have the ability to perform on legendary geriatric WSM? Even if no one is listening now, how about perception?
Use the nationwide signal for something. Don't keep wasting it. As one man used to say, stop crapping in your mess kit.
The hotel is fortunate it isn't a chain or it would have changed name many times for cleanliness. Smelled like mold long before the flood. No service. Even the once beautiful meeting rooms look like a south of the border Motel 8.
It lost a lot of heritage and the redneck culture when it moved from Ryman. Redneck folks can admit that. Too much change for the audience that brought it. Closing the park wasn't enough.
Made the mistake of ordering Dominos at the hotel. Dominos called back and made clear they could not deliver there. They would meet us off property. Ordered a pizza at the hotel. What a horrible product, like every other dropping covered product there.
My advice for Gaylord.
If they want to use WSM to sell tickets:
Have those new performers and old performers on air every day. Beats the bland crap they have now. Showcase studios need to showcase product.
Live performance made the Opry. Let WSM do this in studio. How many new artists would this bring in to have the ability to perform on legendary geriatric WSM? Even if no one is listening now, how about perception?
Use the nationwide signal for something. Don't keep wasting it. As one man used to say, stop crapping in your mess kit.
The hotel is fortunate it isn't a chain or it would have changed name many times for cleanliness. Smelled like mold long before the flood. No service. Even the once beautiful meeting rooms look like a south of the border Motel 8.
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