WSM-AM

[firepoint525]

If the park were still open (instead of a stupid cheesy mall that they should bulldoze and consider it an act of God's GRACE and spend the money to build Opryland back) the Opry would have better attendance, new tributes to the stars could have been built, the radio station(s) could be central to the Opryland theme park and countless new shows would have brought Nashvillians to the area.

You can't turn back the hands of time 15 years and expect everything else to be the same. The world has changed. And rebuilding a theme park isn't going to revitalize AM radio, resuscitate the record industry, and improve Opry attendence. It's not going to happen. While you're at it, why not force Viacom to sell CMT and TNN back to Gaylord? Things change, and everything around it changes. I think you're in dreamland. If all it took to do what you suggest was rebuilding a theme park, it would have happened a long time ago.

Based on what I've read in this thread, here are my suggestions:

1) Bulldoze Opryland, both the hotel and Opry Mills Mall, with the exception of the Opry house itself and Bass Pro Shops, because it seems to still be doing well. Move the fairgrounds out there! This is a perfect location for the fair, because it is still in Davidson County (thus not competing with neighboring county's fairs), and because if that area ever floods again (as it almost certainly will), at least the fair is only held once a year.

2) Build a new baseball stadium for the Sounds on the existing fairgrounds site. Why does everything new need to be built downtown? Have you noticed that there is almost never any consideration given for parking whenever any major downtown projects are discussed? It is almost always assumed that everyone will park in existing parking lots, many of which were created by previously existing buildings on the same site being torn down. (If Larry Schmittou had had his way, the Sounds would already have a new stadium near where Fed Ex Ground is now.)

 

[TheBigA]

Move the fairgrounds out there!

The problem with that idea is it takes land that currently adds money to the tax roles, and turns it into more non-taxable city land. That's partly why the city wants to sell the current fairgrounds. They can sell it and make it taxable. Unless you think a profit-making company like Gaylord will pay taxes on a city fairgrounds that sits idle 98% of the year.

Do you have any idea how much money the hotel and mall make for the city of Nashville? And how much they're losing while it's closed? Not to mention the job losses. Not many people employed by the fairgrounds. Thousands of people employed by the hotel. The mall employs more people and makes more tax money for the city than the theme park ever did. All these people who want the theme park back have never compared the value to the city. For all the complaining people do about Gaylord, the company pays a lot in property and hotel taxes (the hotel tax pays for the stadium, arena, and convention center), and employs thousands.

2) Build a new baseball stadium for the Sounds on the existing fairgrounds site.

See the answer above. The city wants to gain tax revenue from the fairgrounds site.

Also, who would build the stadium? The city? The same city that's now in debt for a half billion dollars on a new convention center, and still hasn't paid off the old one yet? Really?

The reason the city wants to build things downtown is that it owns a lot of empty land, and it's zoned for that kind of development.

 

[Tibbs4]

Granted the parcels of land that were taken over by the city for the downtown con-vention center were not near their potential in raising revenue, but I have a problem with closing the
space off for future tax revenue. Certainly the new businesses that will sprout up on the perimeter of the area will remedy this and the growth an profits will be strong. Whether or
not we see it actually outweight the expense of building the convention center and upkeep
is going to be very interesting to watch.

As for the fairgrounds area --- the development that probably would go in would have a rough time being expensive or upscale given the surrounding neighborhood. It would be great to see
an overhaul of that entire area, but that is going to be costly and time serious time.

I still contend that the brightest thing Metro can do is find an alternative location for Hillsboro
High School and move the school away from Green Hills. By allowing that property to become commercial, with a special percentage of each sale or sales tax going directly to funding Metro Schools, or some similar plan, the city could REALLY profit. Perhaps a piece of property could be traded with the Fairgrounds to get the land for HHS relocation. There are few other pieces of land that could be so much more productive for the city.

And while Mayor Dean is a fairly progressive thinker, when did government ever make sound business decisions on many things?

If they take all my advice, WSM-AM will survive. Just ask Buddy.

 

[firepoint525]

Move the fairgrounds out there!

The problem with that idea is it takes land that currently adds money to the tax roles, and turns it into more non-taxable city land. That's partly why the city wants to sell the current fairgrounds. They can sell it and make it taxable. Unless you think a profit-making company like Gaylord will pay taxes on a city fairgrounds that sits idle 98% of the year.

"Tax rolls" as an issue has become a non-starter for me. Consider this: Opry Mills has already lost stores to Cool Springs, and to the outlet mall in Lebanon. And some will undoubtedly go out of business entirely. The longer it takes Opry Mills to be built back, the more $$$ they will lose. Not their fault because of the flood and the insurance issues, you say? True enough, but consider this: Bellevue Center has sat idle for so long that there is now once again talk of building a new Bellevue High School there, although that won't happen anywhere for a while because Hillwood is still not at capacity.

So if they had held the fair on the Gaylord property this year, that property would have made a little $$$ in the meantime. As they say, a little bit of something is better than all of nothing, which is all they have made since the flood.

Do you have any idea how much money the hotel and mall make for the city of Nashville? And how much they're losing while it's closed? Not to mention the job losses. Not many people employed by the fairgrounds. Thousands of people employed by the hotel. The mall employs more people and makes more tax money for the city than the theme park ever did. All these people who want the theme park back have never compared the value to the city. For all the complaining people do about Gaylord, the company pays a lot in property and hotel taxes (the hotel tax pays for the stadium, arena, and convention center), and employs thousands.

2) Build a new baseball stadium for the Sounds on the existing fairgrounds site.

See the answer above. The city wants to gain tax revenue from the fairgrounds site.

Also, who would build the stadium? The city? The same city that's now in debt for a half billion dollars on a new convention center, and still hasn't paid off the old one yet? Really?

The reason the city wants to build things downtown is that it owns a lot of empty land, and it's zoned for that kind of development.

How much more can they cram in downtown, especially with no place to park anyone? They have tried for three years to build the Sounds a new ballpark on the old Thermal site, but that has gone nowhere fast! What's going to happen is the Sounds are eventually going to get tired of waiting for a new ballpark, and will pack up and leave, and take their tax $$$ with them!

 

[firepoint525]

As for the fairgrounds area --- the development that probably would go in would have a rough time being expensive or upscale given the surrounding neighborhood. It would be great to see
an overhaul of that entire area, but that is going to be costly and time serious time.

I'm always amused by the complaints of "noise" coming from the racetrack there. You mean someone actually lives close enough to the track to complain about "noise" there? And if they do, they actually have enough clout to make some "noise" of their own about it?

 

[olebud]

quote from bigA

I'm always amused by the complaints of "noise" coming from the racetrack there. You mean someone actually lives close enough to the track to complain about "noise" there? And if they do, they actually have enough clout to make some "noise" of their own about it?

You'd be surprised how many people live close enough to hear the 'noise' there. I grew up listening to the sound of the racing engines there..and I was a mile plus away from the fair grounds. We could also hear the 'sounds' of the fair each September...and watch the fire works at night. You're probably right about not having enough clout...but we thought it was cool at the time.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Also, who would build the stadium? The city? The same city that's now in debt for a half billion dollars on a new convention center, and still hasn't paid off the old one yet? Really?

The reason the city wants to build things downtown is that it owns a lot of empty land, and it's zoned for that kind of development.

Excellent post, BigA. A lot of citizens push for facility location based on what would be comfortable and easy for them where they live.... not based on what will work in the long run the "whole community".

We have been through about two generations of suburbs-dwellers who have no love for the inner city and who could care less if the downtown of the hub-city just sank into the marsh.

We lose track of the fact that to be a suburb, you have to have a central city. To have a suburb that will be progressive and financially sound for the next generation, there needs to be a centgral city, a downtown if you please, that will be there for the next generation.

Here in Atlanta there is as much animosity between residents of the suburbs and The City of Atlanta as I have ever seen anywhere. Build the new stadium out here where I live beause I don't want to drive into that hell-hole called the city.

Besides the tax angle, there is the critical-mass issue. People like to have a nice restaurant or bar in the area of the events. (ball games, concerts, conventions.) If you put a baseball park out northeast of the city and a football stadium west of the city, etc. etc. the good restaurants, bars and clubs cannot survive on the part time traffic so they are not there. Put all the stadiums downtown, a good concert venue or two downtown, and a killer convention center downtown, and now all these other businesses can expect year round traffic and customers so they invest in some really nice facilities. You can expect decent parking to develop because they too will get regular business.

Now the convention center concept. When people are deciding where to schedule a convention, they know that people who attend conventions love to go where there are exciting things to do... hopefully within walking distance. When you get a city with a "happening downtown" success breeds even bigger success. Talk about building a tax base!!!!

You Nashville guys better hope they keep building more and more and more stuff and facilities DOWNTOWN. If downtown dies, your cute little suburban neighborhoods eventually dry up and become 21st century ghettos of a sort.

And we haven't even talked about transportation.

 

[deltas69]

i work within sight of the fairgrounds..and there are a few hundred people that are within earshot of the racetrack..dont hear much in the daytime..but occasionally we can hear a car running around the track on practice laps..and we're about 3/4 mile from it..i would imagine on race night...it's pretty loud in that area..

 

[TheBigA]

"Tax rolls" as an issue has become a non-starter for me.

I'm sure that's true. When was the last time you attended a city council meeting?

So if they had held the fair on the Gaylord property this year, that property would have made a little $$$ in the meantime.

Didn't they have the use of the old fairgrounds this year? Seems like it's a non-issue til next year.

 

[Tibbs4]

First off, I don't know of many people NOT in favor of the convention center being located downtown. I think a lot of people have gotten tired of the monopoly of Opryland and the fact that it benefitted at the expense of downtown. I certainly think the new CC will be a great addition AND will make Opryland have to raise the bar on quality and marketing making Nashville a more prominant contender for many more conventions. We've given Opryland plenty of incentives to grow in Nashville. Tax breaks galore and bent the rules for them over and over. When it was pre-Gaylord-owned, it was a decent working relationship with Nashville. Over the decades of Gaylord control, Gaylord, in my opinion, has taken advantage of the tax-break situation. I could go on with specifics, but this topics already way off mark. Some of my points on the actual location of the convention center are specific to just a few blocks and parcels. That doesn't mean I was opposed to it. I have and had a few serious issues with traffic flow patterns, boxing in some of the feeder roads, etc., but it's proximity to thriving business is much better than if it had been built near the Farmer's Market area. All in all, a good choice. And the timing is perfect
with the new roads and the fact that no new buildings/skyscrapers were actually built on the land where the building now is under construction. I am in favor of using the Thermal Transfer area off 1st for a baseball park. I think, like Chattanooga, that it would be a great addition in every way for summer evenings in downtown. Mayor Dean is not a big fan of using this area for that. Several other ideas are on the table for the property --- but it would be nice to bring the park into an area with substantial restaurants, bars and hotels. Goat Rodeo - I don't see downtown Nashville
fading away anytime soon. In fact, it's future is pretty bright. From the new activities of the Courthouse greenway to the condos and hotels conversions on Union and Church, not to mention near the Pinnacle Tower, Nashville, downtown, has never been more exciting. The old areas near the Stock Yard/Sulphur Dell area is in need of something major and exciting. Maybe the baseball stadium will end up there. Parking will always deter many. That is an issue of contention that will rear its head soon at the Council. Greedy bastardos are killing the venues on game nights. "Tax rolls" - Firepoint - Baseball, convention center, hockey all tied together will be monumental. It will be more than Opryland raises based upon rooms/events/seasonal turn. Add these tax revs to the Opryland taxes, and you potentially have a very nice situation. This flood sadly will allow Opryland to upgrade and entice the hotel. Opry Mills --- all but done. If it rebuilds, it's going to take three years to return to reasonable occupancy rates and that is a longshot. I see what your idea is for the fair...you are suggesting placing the rides (I assume the farm animals etc wouldn't be so stellar) in the parking lots area(s) of Opry Mills? Honestly, not a bad idea, except it's not allowed on the property, so something would have to change to allow it. Still, I see your vision and it's sound. Fairgrounds land is pretty much a pit these days. I cannot believe that anyone wants to keep that as a place to showplace Nashville. Historic past, or not. It'll end up as a park with no tax rev coming in, I am guessing. It's virually landlocked and the demographic will have trouble supporting most ventures.

 

[firepoint525]

"Tax rolls" as an issue has become a non-starter for me.

I'm sure that's true. When was the last time you attended a city council meeting?

So if they had held the fair on the Gaylord property this year, that property would have made a little $$$ in the meantime.

Didn't they have the use of the old fairgrounds this year? Seems like it's a non-issue til next year.

Shows what you know! You cherry-pick quotes from me, and only respond to what you are able to refute. You obviously weren't able to respond to the rest of what I posted there. The city did NOT allow "we the people" to have a vote on whether or not to build the new convention center. Granted, I live in Cheatham County now, so I wouldn't have had a vote anyway, but my last vote as a metro resident was against the proposed tax increase back in 2005, just a couple of months before I moved here. The voting site? Bellevue Center! It was still open at the time.

Yeah, the fair was held at the fairgrounds again this year. Novel concept, right? Having the fair at the fairgrounds! But how long can they continue with the "this is the last year" theme there? No, really, this is the last last LAST year at the fairgrounds! : If they move it to Manchester, I won't be going! :

Oh, and GRC, did you know that Greer Stadium is in south Nashville? And that the fairgrounds are also in south Nashville? If a new stadium were built on the fairgrounds site, it would be about a mile from where it is now, maybe not even that far. And it is worth pointing out that the Greer parking lot serves as one of the shuttle sites where fans can park and catch a shuttle to the Titans games.

I have nothing against our downtown. I love it! I feel safe there! I was there this weekend helping out with the women's half-marathon (but obviously NOT running it!). During times of low traffic, I can get there from my home in about 20 minutes! I just don't think that everything should be built there! : Our mayor (now governor) Bredesen promised to focus more on the 'burbs during his second term, but Bud Adams came calling about that time, so hizzoner's focus once again shifted downtown. At least he built the stadium on the east side of the river!

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Oh, and GRC, did you know that Greer Stadium is in south Nashville? And that the fairgrounds are also in south Nashville? If a new stadium were built on the fairgrounds site, it would be about a mile from where it is now, maybe not even that far. And it is worth pointing out that the Greer parking lot serves as one of the shuttle sites where fans can park and catch a shuttle to the Titans games.

My comments where philosophical/political comments about metro areas around the country in general. I've lived in 8 states. I have traveled to conventions and seminars in a number of cities. I go visit my children who live in various cities, including one in metro Nashville.

There is a national trend today by people who choose the good-life of living in the suburbs with lawns for the children, a place for 50 people to gather for burgers in the back yard to dislike, hate, vote against and bad-mouth anything that has to do with downtown core-city of ANY metro area.

Your post here was almost word for word the same thing I hear on talk radio in cities nationwide, and read in letters to the editor nationwide. Now, lest someone "out" met as a hypocrit, I must share with you that I live out beyond the suburbs. With a grin I regularly explain to people that "I live so far out in the country that I have to turn back toward town to find a place to hunt."

But I am a student of the city. My oldest offspring lived in NYC for about seven years and was back there for a wedding a week ago. The next day she walked the streets of Manhattan and Brooklyn reliving her days there. And a part of her will always be there. We have discussed at length why some cities have subways that work and why some cities don't.

When politicians who don't understand cities, and maybe don't love cities try to run them, we end up with bad sausage coming out of the grinder. Other than the Green Bay Packers, you don't find major league sports out where I live. Major league sports needs a city, and a major league city needs a healthy downtown.

There are other cities who fight this battle that I am not familiar with, but I would propose to you that Nashville and Indianapolis are two cities that have spent the last 100 years deciding whether they want to be a small big league city.... or do they want to be a large, overgrown county seat town that tolerates the presence of a state capitol building which draws all these trouble makers called legislators. ;D

 

[TheBigA]

You cherry-pick quotes from me, and only respond to what you are able to refute. You obviously weren't able to respond to the rest of what I posted there.

No...I just honestly don't care.

Yeah, the fair was held at the fairgrounds again this year. Novel concept, right?

The place is a dump in the middle of a bad neighborhood. The CMA deserted the place ten years ago. Everyone complained and thought they were crazy, but they've been proven correct.

 

[firepoint525]

You cherry-pick quotes from me, and only respond to what you are able to refute. You obviously weren't able to respond to the rest of what I posted there.

No...I just honestly don't care.

So the truth comes out. You're just another "last word Larry." :

Yeah, the fair was held at the fairgrounds again this year. Novel concept, right?

The place is a dump in the middle of a bad neighborhood. The CMA deserted the place ten years ago. Everyone complained and thought they were crazy, but they've been proven correct.

Been longer than that. I've been here 18 years, and don't remember CMA ever being there.

 

[Mr. Vandely]

CMA Music Fest....Used To Be Called Fan Fair....Used To Be At The Fairground

 

[Tibbs4]

Ok ~ I know we need to get the hell off this topic...and...my last words on this are a combination of and I agree with (bell) BigA - the crap on Nolensville Road is a dump AND an embarASSment. Anyone who could have enjoyed anything with even a bit of class was less than thrilled to go see anything at that filth pit. It needs to change and change smartly. I don't see a park being the solution for any of the 117 acres for a variety of reasons from drugs to vagrants to no tax revenue. Yes, the city of Berry Hill AND Metro are going to have to figure a way to straighten the area and the pathetic mess of "The Fairgrounds" up. Any Nashvillian with a damn lick of sense needs forget what used to be there (yeah, I am saying it on this point) and help come up with a solution that brings maximum tax revenues into this city.

 

[olebud]

Firepoint says

Been longer than that. I've been here 18 years, and don't remember CMA ever being there.

I just had to get the last word Tibbs. FP...you've been here 18 years, okay, that was ...um...1992. I got here in 1941. I still remember horse racing with those little
2-wheel wagons behind them at the fairgrounds...and yes...covered Fan Fair a coupe of years after going to WSM in 1980.
Sorry Tibbs...don't have a lick of sense..and can't forget the NICE area where I grew up. WOODBINE. So there

 

[Tibbs4]

Firepoint says

Been longer than that. I've been here 18 years, and don't remember CMA ever being there.

I just had to get the last word Tibbs. FP...you've been here 18 years, okay, that was ...um...1992. I got here in 1941. I still remember horse racing with those little
2-wheel wagons behind them at the fairgrounds...and yes...covered Fan Fair a coupe of years after going to WSM in 1980.
Sorry Tibbs...don't have a lick of sense..and can't forget the NICE area where I grew up. WOODBINE. So there

Yep - you had to have the last word didn't you Buddy - now I feel GUILTY! And I should. I remember Fair Park and all that was pretty awesome back through the mid to late 70's? I am not sure when it closed. And Buddy, I should be clearer on that --- I meant that Nolensville road (commercial/industrial*) down that way is not really all that beautiful these days. It wasn't a stab against Woodbine or the houses, people in particular. Where'd you grow up over there?

NEVER allowed to upset or offend Buddy Sadler --- sorry! You are Nashville sir!

This will get play and a laugh - Rosedale is right by there. Hmm! A little bit of heaven in it's own ratings right.

 

[olebud]

NO NO.....I meant it was nice then. The area around Foster and Glenrose and Woodbine school where I grew up has changed in the past years. But that was a time when you never locked doors, no air conditioning and you could ride a bicycle to any part of south Nashville and be safe. Times have changed.
No offense meant...none taken

 

[Tibbs4]

I worked for about a year at the Thompson Lane public library when I was about 15 or 16. Mouth was to loud for that place. Guess it was better to check that off the list early. My mom got me the job. I couldn't say no. Think you were in Houston back then, Buddy. But, yes, that whole area was just fine. I grew up off of Franklin Road - and all that area was carefree as well. Spent a lot of time at the pool at Thompson Ln and Nolensville Road, played baseball down there a few times. Wow. Big changes when I think about that.

Man, I just thought about another job my mom tried to get me --- Sarge --- ya reading?
WZEZ. There was no way I was going to play elevator music. I can't remember who the GM or PD was, but he was really nice to her and explained that I probably didn't want to suffer that way. He knew no talent when he saw it. I haven't thought about that in decades.