WSM INTERFERENCE

[radioman148]

Whenever I'm in St. Louis I make it a point to listen to the blowtorch that is WSM. One of the best signals there is in my opinion.

I wonder what would be considered the station with the best signal.

Haven't been to every part of the country but my vote could go to WCBS.

Down here at night, they come in FAR better than any of the other NYC stations.

Some nights, WCBS has just as good a signal here in Tampa as I remember it being at night up in New Jersey some 80 miles from New York.

It's even been said to reach parts of Florida's east coast during the day and I think that had to be the second very faint station I was picking up on 880 during the day at Daytona Beach when I had the radio in the exact direction of New York.

WCBS has always had a great signal here in the Chicago area--by far the best of any NYC station.
I've heard them from the west coast to the UK.
WLS used to have a signal like that in the 60s through the 80s. Heard easily in the west and all the way to Hawaii, but not these days.

 

[BRNout]

WCBS has always had a great signal here in the Chicago area--by far the best of any NYC station.
I've heard them from the west coast to the UK.
WLS used to have a signal like that in the 60s through the 80s. Heard easily in the west and all the way to Hawaii, but not these days.

Radioman has a good historical perspective which I certainly won't disagree with. However, with regard to New York stations at my house, WCBS is the best simply because WLS isn't that strong here and (thankfully) doesn't run IBOC at night. When WSCR has their Soviet jammer off, WFAN seems to come in about as well as WCBS despite the stronger signal (and splatter) from adjacent WSCR. WFAN seems to have the best groundwave signal in the northeast, it's signal was always a little clearer in New England than the others during the day. I guess it's a matter of frequency and gw versus skywave.

As for best in the USA, my vote tends to go to WWL at this point with KSL and KOA as close runners up. WBZ used to do a lot better than it does now - thanks to the failed IBOC technology.

 

[fybush]

All of the former class I-A clears are compromised to some degree these days, not just by IBOC adjacents but also by daytimers that stay on with day power at night, Canadians running day pattern after dark, Cubans running whatever they're running, and the slew of new AMs that were authorized starting in the 80s on what had been "clear channels."

WWL is still one of the better ones, in part because its directional pattern nulls the Gulf of Mexico and squeezes all of its power back over land. KOA is probably the last of the clears that still enjoys something close to coast-to-coast coverage at night, even if it's only a very occasional catch on the East Coast nowadays. The Chicago I-As on 670/720/780/890 once had that coverage, too, but that went away with the 1960s-era breakdown of the I-A clears.

On an average night here in Rochester, my former-I-A-clear lineup now includes: WSM*, WFAN*, WSCR*, WLW, WGN, WSB, WJR, WABC, WBBM, WHAS, WWL*, WCBS, WLS*, KDKA*, WBZ*, WTAM, KMOX, WHAM and WPHT. The ones with asterisks are likely to be affected, to some degree, by adjacent-channel digital hash. That's still 19 out of the original 25, but go back 40 years and WBAP, WCCO, WHO and WOAI would have been on the list, too, with at least semi-regular reception of KSL and maybe even KFI.

As for WCBS, it's one of those stations that does better at a distance than it does in at least parts of its own home market, thanks to the awful ground conductivity of the granite that separates the west side of Manhattan from the transmitter site in the Bronx. You can be driving down the West Side Highway and literally unable to hear WCBS at times.

 

[cyberdad]

Speaking of classic country music, I have noticed that KWKH is continuing putting an impressive signal into this area every night now. I cannot imagine how they could go months without switching to their nighttime pattern. Yet, based on the pattern that I see on the 'net, it shouldn't be so...Chicago should be in their null with their lobes facing WSW and SE. Strong and steady, you can listen to them almost as clearly as a local now. I wonder what's up.

I've noticed exactly the same thing. And KWKH on its night pattern used to be weak....when audible at all.

Back to the original topic, WSM. In my last two weeks of travels, the radio I had with me was the Sony SRF 37. Signal was pretty good in Ontario, Quebec, upstate NY and NJ. Pretty much as per usual. In Texas it seemed weaker, but a lot of the 50kw blowtorches get hammered down there, so I'm not sure if things were out of the ordinary or not. I didn't get to do as much listening as usual because I'm in my busy season for business.

And speaking of biz....I was at first stunned to read David's post regarding WSM's billings. But I have to admit....the more I thought about it, it made perfect sense. As a publisher (and an ex radio-TV guy), I'm always interested in the business side of media in general. It felt odd to learn that my magazine (b2b) now apparently grosses considerably more than a legendary once-mighty 50kw 1-A powerhouse. And this is an absolutely rotten year for b2b print media! (although online is doing well).

 

[radioman148]

WCBS has always had a great signal here in the Chicago area--by far the best of any NYC station.
I've heard them from the west coast to the UK.
WLS used to have a signal like that in the 60s through the 80s. Heard easily in the west and all the way to Hawaii, but not these days.

Radioman has a good historical perspective which I certainly won't disagree with. However, with regard to New York stations at my house, WCBS is the best simply because WLS isn't that strong here and (thankfully) doesn't run IBOC at night. When WSCR has their Soviet jammer off, WFAN seems to come in about as well as WCBS despite the stronger signal (and splatter) from adjacent WSCR. WFAN seems to have the best groundwave signal in the northeast, it's signal was always a little clearer in New England than the others during the day. I guess it's a matter of frequency and gw versus skywave.

As for best in the USA, my vote tends to go to WWL at this point with KSL and KOA as close runners up. WBZ used to do a lot better than it does now - thanks to the failed IBOC technology.

Agreed on the fact that WLS has much less splatter which doesn't hinder WCBS as much. However, even in the 60s I found that WCBS was the easiest NYC station to hear in the Chicago area. WABC also came in very well then, but I can't even hear it or WFAN now because of adjacent IBOC. Even in the 60s WCBS was better at my location in the northern suburbs than 660 which was then WNBC.
WBZ used to be right there with WWL, but as BRNout mentioned is greatly hindered by IBOC today.
At my location WSM still comes in pretty well most of the time at night.

 

[gar hi]

WSM comes in here at night but not as strong as one would expect.

WFAN and WABC are much harder to get than they used to be and are usually smothered by the Spanish stations anymore.

 

[BRNout]

WSM comes in here at night but not as strong as one would expect.

WFAN and WABC are much harder to get than they used to be and are usually smothered by the Spanish stations anymore.

Even when I lived in PA, I got interference from what I think was Radio Rebelde under WABC. Some nights, it was pretty bad. Surprising too, because I was only about 110 miles from their tx site. No such trouble in New England. Never had the same issue with WFAN, but I haven't listened to it much since they changed from WNNNNBC.

Now that I am in Chicago, it's nearly impossible to ever hear WABC because WBBM's IBOC hash absolutely smothers it. On the other hand, it was pretty clear up in Green Bay, WI and came in surprisingly well up there. I can sometimes hear WFAN through WSCR's hash and it's almost listenable on those nights when WSCR has their crap machine turned off. The adjacent interference makes it tough to compare because WLS doesn't run hash, but their signal is only about 65% of the strength that WBBM and WSCR have here.

Back to the original subject, WSM was in here last night loud and clear just after sundown. No complaints about their signal. I used to get them up in New Hampshire too, but much weaker and it got tough once CBS installed the IBOC jammer at WFAN.

 

[Icangelp]

Whenever I'm in St. Louis I make it a point to listen to the blowtorch that is WSM. One of the best signals there is in my opinion.

I wonder what would be considered the station with the best signal.

Haven't been to every part of the country but my vote could go to WCBS.

Down here at night, they come in FAR better than any of the other NYC stations.

Some nights, WCBS has just as good a signal here in Tampa as I remember it being at night up in New Jersey some 80 miles from New York.

It's even been said to reach parts of Florida's east coast during the day and I think that had to be the second very faint station I was picking up on 880 during the day at Daytona Beach when I had the radio in the exact direction of New York.

The problem with discussing night signals is that there are so many variables. I posted on another thread that WSCR is among the poorest nighttime Chicago signals. Sure as heck, last night when I scanned the dial, they were the strongest Chicago 50KW signal.

In the true night hours, do not confuse sunset-skip and sunrise-skip with true night signals, here is my list of 50kw signals in SoOh, at least the last few weeks.

Consistantly good, but to varying degrees:
650/WSM, 660/WFAN (in the WNBC olden days, this was not the case), 700/WLW (Wonder why?), 720/WGN, I'd say 740 Toronto-but I have a local on 740, 760/WJR, 770/WABC, 780/WBBM, 840/WHAS, 860/CJBC, 870/WWL, 880/WCBS[, 890/WLS[, 1000/WMVP, 1040/WHO, 1100/WTAM, 1120/KMOX, 1210/WPHT, 1510/WLAC (It used to be a lot stronger), 1530/WCKY.

Bubbling under:
670/WSCR, 750/WSB, 810/WGY, 830/WCCO, 1010/Toronto, 1020/KDKA, 1030/WBZ, 1060/KYW, 1130/KWKH (Recent Phenom), 1140/WRVA (In ancient times, they were very strong here), 1160/local on the freq, 1180/WHAM (Has never been a very good signal), 1540/KXEL (Signal strength down from past)

Weak and wimpy, moving in and out, but there:
710/WOR (WLW doesn't help them), 800/CKLW, 820/WBAP (probably should have put them in Bubbling), 850/KOA, 900/CHML, 990/CBW (probably shouldn't even be here), 1050/local on the freq, 1090/Baltimore (Weak, very weak), 1130/WBBR, 1220/WHKW (Maybe not), 1560/WQEW

Of course, there are the 50KW Daytimers and 50KW evening power-reduction/direction-change guys who occasionaly "forget" their promise to God, Country and the FCC.

 

[radioman148]

Regarding WOR I can hardly ever get them anymore at my location 25 miles north of Chicago.

>>Now that I am in Chicago, it's nearly impossible to ever hear WABC because WBBM's IBOC hash absolutely smothers it. On the other hand, it was pretty clear up in Green Bay, WI and came in surprisingly well up there >>

WABC came in very well for me when I was in the Wisconsin Dells this summer.
WSM is still usually strong here. Occasionally I hear the South America station underneath and of course some splatter from WSCR.

 

[almaniac27]

In Kent, Ohio (a bit northeast of Akron), WSM has been doing very well lately, even with a local WHLO on 640. WHLO and WSM usually fight each other at night, one will be dominant for a half hour or so, and then the other station gets a turn.

As for the Chicago stations, they consistently boom in at night. My dorm window faces east towards Youngstown, but WSCR, WGN, WBBM, WLS, WMVP and WYLL come in with really good signals pretty much every night.

Someone mentioned WHKW 1220, they have a pretty lousy signal even up here. I have heard them get overpowered by WPHT 1210 from Philadelphia on several occasions.

Where I am seems to be a black hole for local AM reception, the only station I get at night with a reliably good signal is WTAM. It's been frustrating to listen to the World Series so far because WKNR 850, Cleveland's ESPN affiliate nulls pretty hard in my direction so I end up hearing KOA instead. Luckily I get decent signals from WCBS and WPHT, as well as the ESPN feed from WMVP and WHAM. Does anyone know why WHAM carries the WS, since they're not a sports station?

 

[gar hi]

I was also wondering what stations would top the list for daytime reception and 690 WOKV Jacksonville came to mind.

If it weren't for the splatter from our local on 680, their signal would be listenable even here.

Also consider it has a strong signal on the along the eastern part of North Carolina and I was recently reading some DXpedition reports from Cape Cod and different ones had them listed in their daytime logs.

That's over 1000 miles.

WWL of course goes without saying but I mentioned in another post recently how I can no longer hear them during the day here in Tampa like I could for a while after I got my new receiver. Now, they are barely audible in the background of WGUL's splatter for some reason.

 

[Icangelp]

A look at the ground conductivity map of the United States, would make a person think WBAP should have a very large daytime coverage map. Conductivity in Texas and surrounding areas vary from good to excellent (8-30).

Of course, most already know 5 KW 570/WNAX in Yankton SD has the largest daytime coverage area in the country.

How about 1530/WCKY? Is it a regular at your locations?

 

[LibertyNT]

A look at the ground conductivity map of the United States, would make a person think WBAP should have a very large daytime coverage map. Conductivity in Texas and surrounding areas vary from good to excellent (8-30).

Of course, most already know 5 KW 570/WNAX in Yankton SD has the largest daytime coverage area in the country.

How about 1530/WCKY? Is it a regular at your locations?

WBAP goes 130 miles according to Radio-locator as does WNAX. WBAP can be heard in Great Bend, KS During The Day (ive heard it)

 

[radioman148]

A look at the ground conductivity map of the United States, would make a person think WBAP should have a very large daytime coverage map. Conductivity in Texas and surrounding areas vary from good to excellent (8-30).

Of course, most already know 5 KW 570/WNAX in Yankton SD has the largest daytime coverage area in the country.

How about 1530/WCKY? Is it a regular at your locations?

WBAP goes 130 miles according to Radio-locator as does WNAX. WBAP can be heard in Great Bend, KS During The Day (ive heard it)

I've heard WSCR and WGN near the Minneapolis, Mn airport in my rental car mid day in the summer a few times.

 

[BRNout]

I've heard WSCR and WGN near the Minneapolis, Mn airport in my rental car mid day in the summer a few times.

Yes, I've heard WGN and WBBM pretty well during the day when in the St. Louis area too. I'd imagine they get out even farther than that. WLS was the victim of splatter from a local on 880.

WNAX is an excellent nominee for U.S. champion; I have received it at mid day near Moline, IL and with a signal that was strong enough that you could listen to the talk show that they had on. North American groundwave champ seems to be 540 CBK Watrous, SK - 50 kw of low end MW signal based in an area with excellent conductivity.

 

[gar hi]

Back in the summer of 77, I was staying with my brother in Vacaville, California about 40 miles NE of San Francisco and we took a trip to southern California to see the high desert and then the LA area.

We were going to take the highway 101 most of the way down but he decided to take the highway that goes up and down the central valley instead and I remember it was around Gilroy where we got off 101 to cross over. (That's when I first learned that town was all about Garlic.)

No sooner did we get into the central valley than we started to hear KFI already. This was late morning/early afternoon.

It didn't take long driving down the valley until they had a real good signal.

Years later, my brother lived in Aptos which is right along the Monterey Bay and as far north as where we first heard KFI that time but I never could pick it up at all there during the day.

 

[scottwmro]

Since the topic is WSM, they get my vote as the most unique major market 50kw station in the United States. However, I can't help but wonder if they make a profit.

WSM has some unique characteristics.

1. It is the lowest billing former 1-A clear channel station by far.
2. It is one of the lowest billing stations in Nashville, with a Spanish language AM and a gospel AM outbilling it. It's 27th in billing, with the top station in the market billing nearly 30 times as much.
3. It billed less than $800 a day in 2008.

David,
I going to try to tell you this without being a jerk, but all your facts about WSM are dead wrong! You just want another Spanish Station on the air and you think that Gaylord is going to do that and change WSM-AM and the Grand Ole Opry to all Spanish. You’re nuts and that's where we draw the line. WSM makes more money than your facts, it is NOT the lowest 1-A clear channel station, and it's out billing the other AM Spanish format stations here.

WSM-AM and the Grand Ole Opry is here to stay long after you and I are dead and gone. The only thing is that the Opry will have to adjust is to cater to a younger audience coming up that enjoy artist like Keith Urban, Carrie Underwood, etc. The newer country music audience & stars are moving in as the older ones die off, but one thing they have in common, they will carry on the tradition of Nashville County, and it doesn’t matter how many Latino’s move into the Nashville. I have nothing against Spanish/Latino people or their music, but they wouldn’t want us to move into their homeland country and try to change traditions!

David, I have grown up with WSM-AM and it's not going anywhere and neither is the Grand Ole Opry. You do not live in Nashville, your facts are all wrong, and where you got them from, who knows.

There are too many Country Fans out there and if Gaylord wanted to sell WSM and the Opry, the Country Music Stars have said they would buy it and form a corporation. I would love Ralph Emery to see what you have written. He would agree with me that WSM-AM has a heavy following, and back when Gaylord wanted to change its format to sports in the early 2000’s, the protest outside the WSM-AM studios was a huge turnout of people protesting to keep WSM-AM the way that it is.

WSM is a part of Nashville's Heritage and that's the way it is. I'm not being prejudice here, but this is just the way that it is. WVOL-AM 1470 here in Nashville is a Heritage Black Station here in Nashville, and always will be, like WDIA-AM in Memphis. WVOL is a low billing station, “BUT” it has a loyal black and even a huge white audience! The owner of WVOL and I are personal friends and he also worked at WSM-AM as a jock and production director.

If you want a 50 KW station in Nashville to go Spanish, talk to WLAC-AM 1510. There is nothing on there worth the time of day and a 50 KW waste!

The rest of you reading this can get mad at me at these comments, but we are proud people in Nashville, Tennessee of WSM-AM and the Grand Ole Opry, and it is not going away, not in our lifetime!

 

[radioman148]

I've heard WSCR and WGN near the Minneapolis, Mn airport in my rental car mid day in the summer a few times.

Yes, I've heard WGN and WBBM pretty well during the day when in the St. Louis area too. I'd imagine they get out even farther than that. WLS was the victim of splatter from a local on 880.

WNAX is an excellent nominee for U.S. champion; I have received it at mid day near Moline, IL and with a signal that was strong enough that you could listen to the talk show that they had on. North American groundwave champ seems to be 540 CBK Watrous, SK - 50 kw of low end MW signal based in an area with excellent conductivity.

I've heard WLS 50 or 60 miles southwest of St. Louis during the day. I've also heard WNAX near Galena, Il.
I agree with you on CBK being the best.

 

[davideduardo]

I going to try to tell you this without being a jerk, but all your facts about WSM are dead wrong! You just want another Spanish Station on the air and you think that Gaylord is going to do that and change WSM-AM and the Grand Ole Opry to all Spanish.

Hispanics in the US only listen to AM as a default when there is no local FM. Mexico, for example, is moving nearly all AM stations to FM since AM listening has nearly disappeared; a lot has to do with the much younger average age of Hispanics. So thinking that another AM in Spanish in Nashville would matter is absurd.

You’re nuts and that's where we draw the line. WSM makes more money than your facts, it is NOT the lowest 1-A clear channel station, and it's out billing the other AM Spanish format stations here.

The leading authority on station billing in the US shows that WSM bills about 1/20th what the otherwise lowest billing former 1-A clears bill... meaning WHO, WHAM and WOAI.

WSM-AM and the Grand Ole Opry is here to stay long after you and I are dead and gone. The only thing is that the Opry will have to adjust is to cater to a younger audience coming up that enjoy artist like Keith Urban, Carrie Underwood, etc.

Do you think any of the fans of those artists listen to AM radio, ever?

David, I have grown up with WSM-AM and it's not going anywhere and neither is the Grand Ole Opry. You do not live in Nashville, your facts are all wrong, and where you got them from, who knows.

My involvement with Nashville radio goes back to when Joe Sullivan was PD of WMAK and when I was a VP of Mooney Broadcasting... and the many times I went to the CRS or the time I first met Alan Jackson when he was on the switcher at the TV studios at Opryland and working for WSM chief engineer John Pate.

And my numbers come from, as stated, the prime and primary source of such data in the US.

There are too many Country Fans out there and if Gaylord wanted to sell WSM and the Opry, the Country Music Stars have said they would buy it and form a corporation.

The Opry would be fine without the AM station.

He would agree with me that WSM-AM has a heavy following

It showed in the Spring book in only 3 markets, with a cume of less than 75,000. That is hardly "heavy."

WVOL-AM 1470 here in Nashville is a Heritage Black Station here in Nashville, and always will be, like WDIA-AM in Memphis.

All my sources, and the station's own filing with Arbitron, show the station as Rhythmic Oldies, not Black. It has a 0.5 share, unlike WDIA which is #2 with a 7.2 share in Memphis. Comparing the two is absurd. A station with no listeners has no heritage.

 

[scottwmro]

I going to try to tell you this without being a jerk, but all your facts about WSM are dead wrong! You just want another Spanish Station on the air and you think that Gaylord is going to do that and change WSM-AM and the Grand Ole Opry to all Spanish.

Hispanics in the US only listen to AM as a default when there is no local FM. Mexico, for example, is moving nearly all AM stations to FM since AM listening has nearly disappeared; a lot has to do with the much younger average age of Hispanics. So thinking that another AM in Spanish in Nashville would matter is absurd.

You’re nuts and that's where we draw the line. WSM makes more money than your facts, it is NOT the lowest 1-A clear channel station, and it's out billing the other AM Spanish format stations here.

The leading authority on station billing in the US shows that WSM bills about 1/20th what the otherwise lowest billing former 1-A clears bill... meaning WHO, WHAM and WOAI.

WSM-AM and the Grand Ole Opry is here to stay long after you and I are dead and gone. The only thing is that the Opry will have to adjust is to cater to a younger audience coming up that enjoy artist like Keith Urban, Carrie Underwood, etc.

Do you think any of the fans of those artists listen to AM radio, ever?

David, I have grown up with WSM-AM and it's not going anywhere and neither is the Grand Ole Opry. You do not live in Nashville, your facts are all wrong, and where you got them from, who knows.

My involvement with Nashville radio goes back to when Joe Sullivan was PD of WMAK and when I was a VP of Mooney Broadcasting... and the many times I went to the CRS or the time I first met Alan Jackson when he was on the switcher at the TV studios at Opryland and working for WSM chief engineer John Pate.

And my numbers come from, as stated, the prime and primary source of such data in the US.

There are too many Country Fans out there and if Gaylord wanted to sell WSM and the Opry, the Country Music Stars have said they would buy it and form a corporation.

The Opry would be fine without the AM station.

He would agree with me that WSM-AM has a heavy following

It showed in the Spring book in only 3 markets, with a cume of less than 75,000. That is hardly "heavy."

WVOL-AM 1470 here in Nashville is a Heritage Black Station here in Nashville, and always will be, like WDIA-AM in Memphis.

All my sources, and the station's own filing with Arbitron, show the station as Rhythmic Oldies, not Black. It has a 0.5 share, unlike WDIA which is #2 with a 7.2 share in Memphis. Comparing the two is absurd. A station with no listeners has no heritage.

David,
You being here in Nashville at WMAK was over 30 years ago. WSM-AM was not full time country in the 70's. They were AC during the day and country at night. You’re speaking of the day when Ted Johnson was morning man, and music director. Where you’re getting your numbers from, who knows, and who cares. I'm just telling you that WSM-AM is not going anywhere. You’re not the only one that has said that WSM-AM is fading out into the sunset. Others have said it too. The country music industry will keep it alive.
Not just Hispanics, but when any human being that can't find what they want to hear on FM will go to AM. Now I've been around WVOL since 1981. It's always been a Black Station, even during the times that Cal Young, R.W. Rounsaville, and Lew Dickey owned it, who were all white men. They are NOT Rhythmic Oldies! I listen to the station almost everyday, and stop in from time to time. On Saturday's, all day long, it's Blues at WVOL, just like WDIA is. WVOL has been on almost as long as WDIA. When it comes to WVOL, I know what I'm talking about because I've worked there! It WAS a black station when you were at WMAK! For a long time in the 80's, I was the only white jock there. Sam Howard owned WVOL when I worked there.
Out of respect of others, I'm not going to argue with you.