WSM

[livingfruitvirus]

I thought FM was going to be the end of AM? Now it's mobile internet? LOL - AM serves a great purpose and it is here to stay as long as the FCC doesn't regulate everyone to death. Someone will figure out IBOC one day and improve the quality if we're all ready to plunk down the $$ for the new radios - I'm not. Don't forget C-QUAM was going to change the way we listened to radio! A well engineered station still sounds good enough for me.

And remember, mobile internet is going to seriously harm the AM and SW bands if approved - I don't see that chunk of spectrum being given up for internet service that is not going to come cheap no matter what they say.

I didn't say anything about the end of AM. I was referring to those who want to hear their local stations on a national level, like you do. For that, mobile internet is the solution. It can be done now through cell providers. It ain't cheap, or convenient, but one day they'll make it both.

Also, how will internet in the 700 Mhz spectrum harm the 1 Mhz or 3-30 Mhz spectrums?

 

[catfishal]

My message to the corporate "suit, shirt & tie" Geeks:

LEAVE WSM-AM ALONE! IT'S FINE THE WAY IT IS!

It's the ONLY tradition in this market that has NEVER left it's roots and means many things to many folks like me!

In other words don't (blank) with it! Leave WSM-AM alone, PERIOD!

I'll shut up now Romer, Tibbs, Yorkie, olebud, firepoint, etc. I just had to get it out of me! Now, I'm going to get me some a bottle of Saturday Night Arbor Mist and listen to WSM-AM (HA!) They will have a good line up on the Opry tonight!

Scott

Count me as another who is loyal WSM-AM listener. I listen to the webstream daily in my office and to the AM signal at night. BTW I'm 29

 

[scottwmro]

My message to the corporate "suit, shirt & tie" Geeks:

LEAVE WSM-AM ALONE! IT'S FINE THE WAY IT IS!

It's the ONLY tradition in this market that has NEVER left it's roots and means many things to many folks like me!

In other words don't (blank) with it! Leave WSM-AM alone, PERIOD!

I'll shut up now Romer, Tibbs, Yorkie, olebud, firepoint, etc. I just had to get it out of me! Now, I'm going to get me some a bottle of Saturday Night Arbor Mist and listen to WSM-AM (HA!) They will have a good line up on the Opry tonight!

Scott

Count me as another who is loyal WSM-AM listener. I listen to the webstream daily in my office and to the AM signal at night. BTW I'm 29

We all must face the issue that the AM Band is going to die. It has horrible audio quailty now as people like Jeff Littlejohn (of Clear Channel) made the suggestion we all must cut our bandwidth down to 5 Khz on the transmitter end and the receiver manufacgtures were already bring down the high end to 4 Khz or worse (Landline Telephone Audio). Also, these little AM/FM radios that are purchased at Wal-Mart, Dollar General, Wal-Greens, etc. really stink. On some of them, even FM sounds bad. These receivers coming from overseas really stink and are built the cheapiest way possible.

The best thing for the AM broadcast stations is to move them to another part of the spectrum. But where, who knows? FM translators are not the answer. They will be limited in signal because of the full power FM's that are already there. I wish we could move up to channels higher than 107.9, but the FAA refuses to give up channels above 107.9, so we can not move up the FM band.

AM is in trouble and it's a shame that a good station like WSM-AM is stuck in this rut. Nobody thought about this in 1925 when it was on 1 KW, transmitting from a wire between to poles or towers.

IMHO.....It's our government's fault that AM is dying and something tells me they careless about AM & wished it would go away.

 

[klutch00]

My message to the corporate "suit, shirt & tie" Geeks:

LEAVE WSM-AM ALONE! IT'S FINE THE WAY IT IS!

It's the ONLY tradition in this market that has NEVER left it's roots and means many things to many folks like me!

In other words don't (blank) with it! Leave WSM-AM alone, PERIOD!

I'll shut up now Romer, Tibbs, Yorkie, olebud, firepoint, etc. I just had to get it out of me! Now, I'm going to get me some a bottle of Saturday Night Arbor Mist and listen to WSM-AM (HA!) They will have a good line up on the Opry tonight!

Scott

I'll add myself to the list of those who would hate to see WSM's country format leave 650 AM. This is a unique product not available elsewhere. At the very least, keep this programming on at night-especially Fridays and Saturdays! Account execs should look to national advertisers for evening hours. It's too bad that there aren't steps being taken to improve the AM band (and I DON"T mean IBOC either!). I think AMAX and AM stereo were both given bum-raps and should be re-visited as viable AM transmission options!

 

[Tibbs4]

Scott --- I couldn't add anything better than what you all have said. So I'll just sit back and read and respect a lot of cool
people who care about a very special thing. This is very cool.

 

[w9wi]

I would have thought gaylord would have have tried to sell the land in brentwood off to developer by now

That land has to be incredibly valuable.

But I'm not sure it's more valuable than the radio station itself.

To maintain its Class A status WSM requires a tower at least 500 feet tall. I don't think any other AM station in town has a tower that tall, (so there's nowhere to diplex) and I don't think it's technically possible to adapt an existing FM/TV tower to accomodate an AM station. (you can add FM/TV to an existing AM tower but you can't go the other way around without EXTENSIVE rebuilding)

Is there anywhere within ten miles of Metro where you could put up a new 500-foot tower today?

 

[jy]

Good point. 15 years ago someone was trying to put a tower up off Old Hickory Blvd down from where 2 is and it didn't get very far. Nobody wants a stick in their neighborhood.
I know these conversations bring up the loyalists and that's fine. It doesn't matter if wsm am is #13 #14 or lower overall, if it's their favorite station that's all that matters. And as modern and slick as a lot of radio is, I agree that the flavor of WSM AM is unique. With the comment of AM dying please find my submission at the bottom of page 4. Look at all the markets where AM does work. And if you're in Atlanta and hear WSB's quality or in Chicago and hear the richness of WGN or WLS you'll know that the AM quality can today be better than the range we're hearing on WSM AM. It feels like no top end is there, that the bottom has a mushy sound ... I can't put my finger on it. At one time WSM Am ran a rather compressed full punchy sound during the week and on Sat night switched to a more natural "prarie home companion" type feel on the processing to compliment the atmosphere from the Opry House. At that time however the engineers at on Knob Hill and the staff at the Opry house were also seperate and came from two worlds and cultures so they could perhaps execute that switchover effectively.

Whatever is wrong sound wise with WSM AM can be easily corrected but it's probably safe to assume they see it as "just fine the way it is." If they see themselves as a station that will never be in the top 10 of Nashville's stations again the conversation is pointless. People settle into and adjust to certain standards and expectations. But the minute conversation goes to "AM is over" "AM is dead" "AM will never" well then many agree and say "yeah, why bother."

 

[PTBoardOp94]

WSM's processing sounds excellent on skywave. Maybe Watt & friends are sacrificing local sound for signal?

One thought that I don't think I've seen: a permanent simulcast of WSM on the FM band somewhere in Nashville (whether it would be WSM-FM or not). Fewer country choices -> higher ratings. And the sound quality thing too

 

[radionekkid]

I don't know the conditions where you listen but wsm is very high quality and still rus 10 kc wide audio on gesuper radio set. here all others sound very muddy and narrow like they have clothes pen on their nose

 

[radionekkid]

I would have thought gaylord would have have tried to sell the land in brentwood off to developer by now

That land has to be incredibly valuable.

But I'm not sure it's more valuable than the radio station itself.

To maintain its Class A status WSM requires a tower at least 500 feet tall. I don't think any other AM station in town has a tower that tall, (so there's nowhere to diplex) and I don't think it's technically possible to adapt an existing FM/TV tower to accomodate an AM station. (you can add FM/TV to an existing AM tower but you can't go the other way around without EXTENSIVE rebuilding)

Is there anywhere within ten miles of Metro where you could put up a new 500-foot tower today?

that area could bring $.5 up to $1 m per acre if there is no restrictions or conditions otherwise. that land might be 25 ac or more. fcc alocation restriction might keep it there. a class 1a would need taller tower than 500 maybe like more than 700 to keep class.

 

[radiorob2.0]

The NAB should have dealt with the bad tuner issue fifty years ago to, in the words of the great philosopher Barney Fife, "nip it in the bud". But it was taken for granted and those narrowband radios took over. AM stereo and AMAX were futile attempt to make it better. The former might have had a chance if not for a sore loser engineer who kept stomping his feet and throwing fits because his system wasn't chosen. The later was a cluster in it's own right. A mandatory standard for broadcasters but voluntary for receiver manufactures. So AMAX receivers never materialized beyond a few radios and finally disappeared. But broadcasters must still comply, golly I love the FCC.

Here's a wideband AM experiment; the Bose Wave Radio sounds great on FM and CD's but the AM section is pathetic. If you have a wideband AM tuner hook it up to the Bose's "AUX" input, then compare FM to Wideband AM. In that case AM and FM are equal on that radio and if the receiver is AM stereo then you're in for a real ear opening experience.

 

[yorkie9]

Also, how will internet in the 700 Mhz spectrum harm the 1 Mhz or 3-30 Mhz spectrums?

Sorry - brain not working / not enough sleep! I keep thinking about the plan to move broadband through power lines - too many things to think about. I can already stream radio through my Treo using the Sprint unlimited data plan. I can patch it through the car stereo and the sound is not bad - at least FM quality most of the time, depending on the source. I've used it a couple of times.

 

[w9wi]

that area could bring $.5 up to $1 m per acre if there is no restrictions or conditions otherwise. that land might be 25 ac or more. fcc alocation restriction might keep it there. a class 1a would need taller tower than 500 maybe like more than 700 to keep class.

Figure 7 in 73.190 says 165m (540') for Class A on 650kHz. It also says 152m (500') is enough if it can be shown a tower taller than 500' cannot be approved for air-traffic reasons. Dunno if WSM would be able to show that or not.

To refer to another reply, WKRN-TV did manage to get a second tower approved on their existing site, for their digital station. However, while that's a good site for TV it would be REALLY BAD for AM. (due to poor ground conductivity on top of the hill...) I can think of some areas west and northwest of downtown where a 500-footer might fly, except that they're too close to John C. Tune...

I suppose they *could* use an 88m (290') tower and downgrade to Class B. They could remain 50kw non-DA into the shorter tower since they were there first & wouldn't be protecting anyone. They would lose their skywave protection though, (not to mention some of their groundwave) and you could bet most of the other 650 stations would be increasing power & letting out their patterns.

(looks like the AM 760 tower is 95m tall so it would do the trick.. assuming it could handle 50kw..)

 

[K4WRF]

Lets see if I can clear up two threads with one post.

The parcel in question is not worth much based on the fact 75 percent of it is in the one-hundred year flood plan of the Little Harpeth River that runs along the eastern edge of the property. To make matters worse, the construction of Interstate 65 restricted the flow to the channel width of the river, so in reality it floods on about a twenty-five cycle. Because of this and other factors, the wetlands can’t be substituted. About the only uses for the land is what it is now or a park. That is why Cal Turner donated the adjacent parcel to the city, it can’t be developed. The usable part is across the road from a school so there will be no gas station or vending of beer.

Moving the site has been studied extensively as requested by the owners but dismissed as not being practical.

The tower lighting system is currently undergoing extensive repairs when its not raining.

CFR 73.182(6)(o) states that Class “A” radio station must develop a field of at least 362 mv/m @1km/1kw. This can only be developed by a radiator of 164.4 electrical degrees in length or 691.32 feet at 650Khz over a counterpoise of 120 radials at least a quarter-wave in electrical length. As a matter of record, KFI in Los Angeles recently went through quite an exercise to protect their Class “A” status.

Best regards,

W/

 

[scottwmro]

Lets see if I can clear up two threads with one post.

The parcel in question is not worth much based on the fact 75 percent of it is in the one-hundred year flood plan of the Little Harpeth River that runs along the eastern edge of the property. To make matters worse, the construction of Interstate 65 restricted the flow to the channel width of the river, so in reality it floods on about a twenty-five cycle. Because of this and other factors, the wetlands can’t be substituted. About the only uses for the land is what it is now or a park. That is why Cal Turner donated the adjacent parcel to the city, it can’t be developed. The usable part is across the road from a school so there will be no gas station or vending of beer.

Moving the site has been studied extensively as requested by the owners but dismissed as not being practical.

The tower lighting system is currently undergoing extensive repairs when its not raining.

CFR 73.182(6)(o) states that Class “A” radio station must develop a field of at least 362 mv/m @1km/1kw. This can only be developed by a radiator of 164.4 electrical degrees in length or 691.32 feet at 650Khz over a counterpoise of 120 radials at least a quarter-wave in electrical length. As a matter of record, KFI in Los Angeles recently went through quite an exercise to protect their Class “A” status.

Best regards,

W/

Watt,
You may know about this, but there was a rumor going around that if WSM-AM's tower ever fell to the ground, the City of Brentwood would not allow it to got back up. I really don't believe that and even the residence that live around the city would want it back up.
If that was the case, I would be up there at Brentwood City Hall with my picket signs, and I think the city would be place under pressure all over the U.S. Well, it's been up since 1932, and I don't look for it going anywhere, so I guess we're safe.
I'm in total disagreement in moving it...period. Somebody should go back in the business of building minature Blaw-Knox towers, 1/4 wave of a station's channel. They may get expensive, but they look cool!

 

[firepoint525]

Okay, wow, I've got a ton of questions after reading this thread so far! Keep in mind that I am not an engineer, nor do I play one on TV, and I didn't stay anywhere except right here at home last night! ;D

If towers on the northwest side of the city are too close to the John C. Tune airport, how does WWCR get to have theirs behind their studios there? They are just across the Cumberland from John C. Tune. And I am puzzled as to why they are not lit up at night. Do they not meet the height requirement? They may be out of the flight pattern for airport traffic, but I certainly hope no crop duster ever flies into one of their towers! I am assuming that crop dusters would only fly during the daytime, and only on clear days at that.

And while we are on the subject, who owns the towers just southwest of the Briley Parkway/Ashland City Highway intersection? Right there on the corner of that interchange. It is my understanding that WWCR does not own those.

I can see metro eventually wanting to buy some waterfront right of way from WWCR if they ever want to put in a greenway in on the northwest side of town, either connecting to the trails at Bells Bend Park not too far away, or even to the bicentennial greenway at Ashland City. Right now, the railroad between Nashville and Ashland City is still in use, so I suppose metro would opt for riverfront right of way for a greenway instead. As long as WWCR's towers are far enough inland from the river, it should not be a problem for them to sell right of way to metro. (Unless they are concerned with conspiracy theorists staking out the greenway behind their studios! ;D) This land is also in flood plain, so it should not be worth much to anyone except metro.

As for that area around Brentwood, why didn't they put some large culverts (or a bridge) under I-65 when they built that? Did they not plan ahead for flood issues? Or were they just not as environmentally aware back then? I'm assuming that area was very undeveloped when the interstate first came through there 40+ years ago, and was certainly way out in the middle of nowhere when the Blaw-Knox was first erected. (I know a little about flood plains because my backyard sits in one, and it looks like the Florida everglades out there right now!) I can see not allowing a beer seller near a school, particularly an elementary school, but why a gas station? Is it because they would likely be attached to a convenience store, and thus sell beer? All this reminds me of that cockamamie law that forbids underage cashiers to ring up beer purchases at the grocery stores. If they're old enough to work, they're old enough to ring up alcohol sales. Doesn't mean they're drinking!

I can see why Watt doesn't check in here much! He leaves us with more questions than answers! ;D

 

[K4WRF]

Okay, wow, I've got a ton of questions after reading this thread so far! Keep in mind that I am not an engineer, nor do I play one on TV, and I didn't stay anywhere except right here at home last night! ;D

If towers on the northwest side of the city are too close to the John C. Tune airport, how does WWCR get to have theirs behind their studios there? They are just across the Cumberland from John C. Tune. And I am puzzled as to why they are not lit up at night. Do they not meet the height requirement? They may be out of the flight pattern for airport traffic, but I certainly hope no crop duster ever flies into one of their towers! I am assuming that crop dusters would only fly during the daytime, and only on clear days at that.

And while we are on the subject, who owns the towers just southwest of the Briley Parkway/Ashland City Highway intersection? Right there on the corner of that interchange. It is my understanding that WWCR does not own those.

I can see metro eventually wanting to buy some waterfront right of way from WWCR if they ever want to put in a greenway in on the northwest side of town, either connecting to the trails at Bells Bend Park not too far away, or even to the bicentennial greenway at Ashland City. Right now, the railroad between Nashville and Ashland City is still in use, so I suppose metro would opt for riverfront right of way for a greenway instead. As long as WWCR's towers are far enough inland from the river, it should not be a problem for them to sell right of way to metro. (Unless they are concerned with conspiracy theorists staking out the greenway behind their studios! ;D) This land is also in flood plain, so it should not be worth much to anyone except metro.

As for that area around Brentwood, why didn't they put some large culverts (or a bridge) under I-65 when they built that? Did they not plan ahead for flood issues? Or were they just not as environmentally aware back then? I'm assuming that area was very undeveloped when the interstate first came through there 40+ years ago, and was certainly way out in the middle of nowhere when the Blaw-Knox was first erected. (I know a little about flood plains because my backyard sits in one, and it looks like the Florida everglades out there right now!) I can see not allowing a beer seller near a school, particularly an elementary school, but why a gas station? Is it because they would likely be attached to a convenience store, and thus sell beer? All this reminds me of that cockamamie law that forbids underage cashiers to ring up beer purchases at the grocery stores. If they're old enough to work, they're old enough to ring up alcohol sales. Doesn't mean they're drinking!

I can see why Watt doesn't check in here much! He leaves us with more questions than answers! ;D

The WNQM (formerly WMAK towers were lighted up until the early 1980’s and received FCC authority to turn them off due to shielding from surrounding hills. The licensee failed to follow through when the FAA rules changed in the late 90’s, so they must be lighted again.

The three towers are the remnants of the old WWGM 1560 and is now the site of WAMB 1200 using one of the towers.

Both of these sites pre-date the Tune Airport by many years. The airport used to maintain solar powered low intensity lights on the surrounding hills but no longer required.

As far as the I-65 bridge, the rules at that time were different and there was not as much concern for environmental issues. The City of Brentwood was not incorporated until 1969 and this area was still outside the city limits, there was not an interchange at I-65 and Concord Road until about 1987.

When they widened Concord Road to five lanes in 1999, the city initially refused to allow the market at Concord and Wilson Pike a permit to rebuild after existing at that corner for about sixty years, they went to court sought and received injunctive relief. The City of Brentwood deems this a non-commerce area. If you notice, there is limited signage on Concord Market. God forbid we ever had to replace this thing, I am sure we would have to go through the courts to get it done.

W/

 

[Tenn Radio Boy]

This is all great, but a quick look at the 25-54 ratings should tell the whole story about WSM-AM, whom nostalgic devotees still talk about.
They are 4th in a 4 pony race. Not one intelligent buyer of advertising will by the 4th country station on a market. The 2nd country station in the format is probably having a tough time in this economy.

I went to the AM dial and tuned in this historic radio station and heard them playing Sixteen Tons by TN. Ernie Ford. Let's do the math; song came out in 1955, that 53 years ago.
Even in your were a newborn, you were 53 years old. On the far end of the 25-54 demo.


Their demos should be 55 plus if anything.

I am sure there is a place for radio stations like that. Don't get confused because they have a big tower, they still have to make money on the local level to survive.

 

[firepoint525]

This is all great, but a quick look at the 25-54 ratings should tell the whole story about WSM-AM, whom nostalgic devotees still talk about.
They are 4th in a 4 pony race. Not one intelligent buyer of advertising will by the 4th country station on a market. The 2nd country station in the format is probably having a tough time in this economy.
I went to the AM dial and tuned in this historic radio station and heard them playing Sixteen Tons by TN. Ernie Ford. Let's do the math; song came out in 1955, that 53 years ago.
Even in your were a newborn, you were 53 years old. On the far end of the 25-54 demo.
Their demos should be 55 plus if anything.
I am sure there is a place for radio stations like that. Don't get confused because they have a big tower, they still have to make money on the local level to survive.

Tell that to all the out-of-towners who flooded our local message boards six years ago when rumors of a pending format change were running rampant!

 

[w9wi]

CFR 73.182(6)(o) states that Class “A” radio station must develop a field of at least 362 mv/m @1km/1kw. This can only be developed by a radiator of 164.4 electrical degrees in length or 691.32 feet at 650Khz over a counterpoise of 120 radials at least a quarter-wave in electrical length. As a matter of record, KFI in Los Angeles recently went through quite an exercise to protect their Class “A” status.

Ah. Didn't think to look there for more tower requirements.

73.182 is in itself almost as big as all the TV rules.

(just kidding, but it sure seems that way!)