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WSPY (nee WFXW) moving to Millbrook?

T

tmesser

Nelson Multimedia's 1480 WSPY has a couple of apps to change its city of license to Millbrook and move to a site just north of Millington. The '04 app to run 500 watts daytime, 250 nighttime (both directional) from the Millbrook site appears to have been "settled" because of mutual exclusivity concerns related to engineering. The new app from October '05 shows the intention to run 400 watts day, 250 night.

As most of us probably remember, this is the former WFXW/Geneva that went off the air in early 2001 after its tower site at the end of Fern Avenue in St. Charles was sold to make room for a housing development.

FCC list of mutually exclusive AM apps
October 2005 application
Google map of site listed in application
Google satellite view of old site
 
> As most of us probably remember, this is the former
> WFXW/Geneva that went off the air in early 2001 after its
> tower site at the end of Fern Avenue in St. Charles was sold
> to make room for a housing development.

And before that, WGSB, "Where Good Sounds Begin," owned by Nelda Brickhouse, Jack's ex, with studios in the split-level house on Fern Ave.
 
> > As most of us probably remember, this is the former
> > WFXW/Geneva that went off the air in early 2001 after its
> > tower site at the end of Fern Avenue in St. Charles was
> sold
> > to make room for a housing development.
>
> And before that, WGSB, "Where Good Sounds Begin," owned by
> Nelda Brickhouse, Jack's ex, with studios in the split-level
> house on Fern Ave.
>
Geneva has no other radio stations licensed to it. Can the station simply leave town because it sold the tower site? It will be interesting to see.
Seems similiar to the harvard il. situation. The FCC should tell them to switch it to a daytimer to keep the station in Geneva.
 
> Geneva has no other radio stations licensed to it. Can the
> station simply leave town because it sold the tower site?
> It will be interesting to see.
> Seems similiar to the harvard il. situation. The FCC should
> tell them to switch it to a daytimer to keep the station in
> Geneva.

I think it's slightly differnt since they lost their tower site.

-A<P ID="signature">______________

</P>
 
> > Geneva has no other radio stations licensed to it. Can
> the
> > station simply leave town because it sold the tower site?
>
> > It will be interesting to see.
> > Seems similiar to the harvard il. situation. The FCC
> should
> > tell them to switch it to a daytimer to keep the station
> in
> > Geneva.
>
> I think it's slightly differnt since they lost their tower
> site.
>
> -A
>

Correct, switching to a daytimer would not help keep this station in Geneva.

The FCC will make an exception in this case. Especially since Geneva is well covered by radio service from Aurora.

In most cases sole radio service is looked upon equally by the FCC. If there are circumstances beyond the licensee's control that will affect the viability of a signal (ie: The taxes/land value of a site far exceeds what could resonably be billed by that signal) the FCC generally will try to work with whatever reasonable alternatives the licensee proposes. Especially in a case where it will give a community it's first local service, such as the Millbrook move.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
> And before that, WGSB, "Where Good Sounds Begin," owned by
> Nelda Brickhouse, Jack's ex, with studios in the split-level
> house on Fern Ave.
>


WGSB also stood for W Geneva StCharles Batavia.... The Tri-Cities

WFXW I believe stood for "fox", referring to the Fox River or Fox Valley.

The station was licensed to Geneva, but the towers were about 1 mile into St. Charles.

For many years, the station was very locally focused and involved with the community. The tri-cities had their "own" radio station. Since 1480 changed to WSPY, WERV and WWYW been filling that void to some extent.
 
>
> Correct, switching to a daytimer would not help keep this
> station in Geneva.
>
> The FCC will make an exception in this case. Especially
> since Geneva is well covered by radio service from Aurora.
>
> In most cases sole radio service is looked upon equally by
> the FCC. If there are circumstances beyond the licensee's
> control that will affect the viability of a signal (ie: The
> taxes/land value of a site far exceeds what could resonably
> be billed by that signal) the FCC generally will try to work
> with whatever reasonable alternatives the licensee proposes.
> Especially in a case where it will give a community it's
> first local service, such as the Millbrook move.
>
This will another great example of the fcc being a joke. The cities of geneva and st. charles certainly deserve a local station more than tiny millbrook.
 
> >
> > Correct, switching to a daytimer would not help keep this
> > station in Geneva.
> >
> > The FCC will make an exception in this case. Especially
> > since Geneva is well covered by radio service from Aurora.
>
> >
> > In most cases sole radio service is looked upon equally by
>
> > the FCC. If there are circumstances beyond the licensee's
>
> > control that will affect the viability of a signal (ie:
> The
> > taxes/land value of a site far exceeds what could
> resonably
> > be billed by that signal) the FCC generally will try to
> work
> > with whatever reasonable alternatives the licensee
> proposes.
> > Especially in a case where it will give a community it's
> > first local service, such as the Millbrook move.
> >
> This will another great example of the fcc being a joke.
> The cities of geneva and st. charles certainly deserve a
> local station more than tiny millbrook.
>

Nobody is arguing that point with you! The reality is that there is no cheap land available to put up a tower. Period. Forget about getting a tower zoned in St. Charles or Geneva. Do you really think that residents of either town would allow a tower in their neighborhood?

If they could give it a go in St. Charles, they would. Heck, they at least bought the license after the previous owner shut it down. I didn't see many people fighting to get their hands on the license!

You're projecting your indignance on the wrong people! Blame the people who live in St. Charles and Geneva...they're the ones making it impossible to put up a tower!<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
> Nobody is arguing that point with you! The reality is that
> there is no cheap land available to put up a tower. Period.
> Forget about getting a tower zoned in St. Charles or
> Geneva. Do you really think that residents of either town
> would allow a tower in their neighborhood?
>
> If they could give it a go in St. Charles, they would.
> Heck, they at least bought the license after the previous
> owner shut it down. I didn't see many people fighting to
> get their hands on the license!
>
> You're projecting your indignance on the wrong people!
> Blame the people who live in St. Charles and
> Geneva...they're the ones making it impossible to put up a
> tower!
>
That's the problem, which I find mainly in higher income neighborhoods, people fight to keep any transmission tower out, and if it's a tower that's already in town, they sometimes fight to get it removed. It's not just radio towers, but TV & cellphone towers too. There's a part of Gary Indiana where residents make it impossible for any transmission towers to be put in the neighborhoods, because they don't like the look of them, and are concerned about getting cancer from them. Luckily for me, I live near a 500' tower that houses Verizon Wireless, US Cellular, & Airbaud wireless internet service. I'm about 2 1/2 miles from the WIND towers, and I used to live less than a 1/4 mile from them (I moved away from the area due to the crime in the neighborhood, and not because of the towers), and also live about 1 1/2 miles from the WWCA towers, which have been up at the current site since the 60's or 70's, and only been on the air since December 2004, when the station went back on the air, after being silenced in 1994 when the original owners took the station off the air. Surprisingly, the residents that live near the WWCA towers didn't object to having the towers powered up again, but the FAA had threatened in the late 90's to have the towers removed when the towers weren't lit up when the station went off the air. The reason the FAA had a major problem with the unlit towers, is because it's near Griffith Airport, and the towers are approximately 300' tall each.
 
>
> Nobody is arguing that point with you! The reality is that
> there is no cheap land available to put up a tower. Period.
> Forget about getting a tower zoned in St. Charles or
> Geneva. Do you really think that residents of either town
> would allow a tower in their neighborhood?
>
> If they could give it a go in St. Charles, they would.
> Heck, they at least bought the license after the previous
> owner shut it down. I didn't see many people fighting to
> get their hands on the license!
>
> You're projecting your indignance on the wrong people!
> Blame the people who live in St. Charles and
> Geneva...they're the ones making it impossible to put up a
> tower!
>
Thanks for the reply. In my opinion think the owner bought the station with the idea of moving it out from the beginning. IMO I don't think any serious effort was made to keep it in town with the current owner. You may know different or be thinking of previous owners. I think at 1480, a low height kinstar antenna is 54 feet tall. That seems not impossible to be zoned imo. A low power daytimer serving the community would be better than moving it to millbrook. It may not be possible though because of the proximity to 1490 in oak park and beloit. <P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Link on 04/20/06 04:08 AM.</FONT></P>
 
> > >
> > > Correct, switching to a daytimer would not help keep
> this
> > > station in Geneva.
> > >
> > > The FCC will make an exception in this case. Especially
>
> > > since Geneva is well covered by radio service from
> Aurora.
> >
> > >
> > > In most cases sole radio service is looked upon equally
> by
> >
> > > the FCC. If there are circumstances beyond the
> licensee's
> >
> > > control that will affect the viability of a signal (ie:
> > The
> > > taxes/land value of a site far exceeds what could
> > resonably
> > > be billed by that signal) the FCC generally will try to
> > work
> > > with whatever reasonable alternatives the licensee
> > proposes.
> > > Especially in a case where it will give a community
> it's
> > > first local service, such as the Millbrook move.
> > >
> > This will another great example of the fcc being a joke.
> > The cities of geneva and st. charles certainly deserve a
> > local station more than tiny millbrook.
> >
>
> Nobody is arguing that point with you! The reality is that
> there is no cheap land available to put up a tower. Period.
> Forget about getting a tower zoned in St. Charles or
> Geneva. Do you really think that residents of either town
> would allow a tower in their neighborhood?
>
> If they could give it a go in St. Charles, they would.
> Heck, they at least bought the license after the previous
> owner shut it down. I didn't see many people fighting to
> get their hands on the license!
>
> You're projecting your indignance on the wrong people!
> Blame the people who live in St. Charles and
> Geneva...they're the ones making it impossible to put up a
> tower!
>

RD,

With all due respect, and believe me, it's a lot of respect, I'm afraid that I have go on the defensive.

Is the problem coming from the city government or the residents? How are St. Charles / Geneva residents the problem? I agree with the cost of land being high and that there are few places to put towers, but I am not aware of anyone or any group in the town having a problem with the addition of new towers. Unless you have heard otherwise... Especially since there are several cellular towers in the area. Land for one of those very tall cell towers in St. Charles, is owned by a member of my immediate family.

When the original towers went up, St. Charles and Geneva were just small middle classed towns. It's only in the last 20 years that it has become a higher income area. I can understand people protesting a tower in one of the really rich neigborhoods. However, there are plenty of older parts of town. There is just no room in those parts. One advantage this area has is that it is kind of the edge of Chicago. There is a lot of open space 5 to 10 miles west, in one of the many cornfields.


BTW.. Congrats on the Fybush articles!
nhh
Colonel Mustard
 
Most of the time people don't walk around hating towers. It's only until you decide to put one up that the NIMBY's (Not in my back yard) come out.


>
> Is the problem coming from the city government or the
> residents? How are St. Charles / Geneva residents the
> problem? I agree with the cost of land being high and that
> there are few places to put towers, but I am not aware of
> anyone or any group in the town having a problem with the
> addition of new towers. Unless you have heard otherwise...
> Especially since there are several cellular towers in the
> area. Land for one of those very tall cell towers in St.
> Charles, is owned by a member of my immediate family.
> <P ID="signature">______________
The power is yours!</P>
 
> > > >
> > > > Correct, switching to a daytimer would not help keep
> > this
> > > > station in Geneva.
> > > >
> > > > The FCC will make an exception in this case.
> Especially
> >
> > > > since Geneva is well covered by radio service from
> > Aurora.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > In most cases sole radio service is looked upon
> equally
> > by
> > >
> > > > the FCC. If there are circumstances beyond the
> > licensee's
> > >
> > > > control that will affect the viability of a signal
> (ie:
> > > The
> > > > taxes/land value of a site far exceeds what could
> > > resonably
> > > > be billed by that signal) the FCC generally will try
> to
> > > work
> > > > with whatever reasonable alternatives the licensee
> > > proposes.
> > > > Especially in a case where it will give a community
> > it's
> > > > first local service, such as the Millbrook move.
> > > >
> > > This will another great example of the fcc being a joke.
>
> > > The cities of geneva and st. charles certainly deserve a
>
> > > local station more than tiny millbrook.
> > >
> >
> > Nobody is arguing that point with you! The reality is
> that
> > there is no cheap land available to put up a tower.
> Period.
> > Forget about getting a tower zoned in St. Charles or
> > Geneva. Do you really think that residents of either town
>
> > would allow a tower in their neighborhood?
> >
> > If they could give it a go in St. Charles, they would.
> > Heck, they at least bought the license after the previous
> > owner shut it down. I didn't see many people fighting to
> > get their hands on the license!
> >
> > You're projecting your indignance on the wrong people!
> > Blame the people who live in St. Charles and
> > Geneva...they're the ones making it impossible to put up a
>
> > tower!
> >
>
> RD,
>
> With all due respect, and believe me, it's a lot of respect,
> I'm afraid that I have go on the defensive.
>
> Is the problem coming from the city government or the
> residents? How are St. Charles / Geneva residents the
> problem? I agree with the cost of land being high and that
> there are few places to put towers, but I am not aware of
> anyone or any group in the town having a problem with the
> addition of new towers. Unless you have heard otherwise...
> Especially since there are several cellular towers in the
> area. Land for one of those very tall cell towers in St.
> Charles, is owned by a member of my immediate family.
>
> When the original towers went up, St. Charles and Geneva
> were just small middle classed towns. It's only in the last
> 20 years that it has become a higher income area. I can
> understand people protesting a tower in one of the really
> rich neigborhoods. However, there are plenty of older parts
> of town. There is just no room in those parts. One
> advantage this area has is that it is kind of the edge of
> Chicago. There is a lot of open space 5 to 10 miles west,
> in one of the many cornfields.
>
>
> BTW.. Congrats on the Fybush articles!
> nhh
> Colonel Mustard
>


No worries...I'm not always right - just ask my wife! :)

Anyway, I may have been a bit broad with my generalization, but I can tell you that to get a tower zoned in any urban area is difficult. Remember that with an AM tower you need a significant amount of land around the tower for the buried ground radials. Plus you want to have an area fairly open and away from tight residential areas. I can tell you from experience that when you light up an AM ina residential neighborhood your station gets blamed for everything from breaking appliances to causing athlete's foot!

The bottom line is that although it technically may be possible to find a sliver of land on which to put up a tower, it is MUCH more difficult to find a decent site that doesn't require a large amount of compromise, as well as deep pockets.

People don't actively say that they don't like towers, but boy do they come out in force when someone wants to put one up! Especially broadcast towers.

Anyway, I am in no way saying that the people of St. Charles or Geneva are not worthy of a station, it just that it's highly unlikely that such a station would get enough support from local merchants and the community to get a good tower site secured, and get a proper tower built for a small AM station.

It's all about the economics! <P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
> > > > >
> > > > > Correct, switching to a daytimer would not help keep
>
> > > this
> > > > > station in Geneva.
> > > > >
> > > > > The FCC will make an exception in this case.
> > Especially
> > >
> > > > > since Geneva is well covered by radio service from
> > > Aurora.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In most cases sole radio service is looked upon
> > equally
> > > by
> > > >
> > > > > the FCC. If there are circumstances beyond the
> > > licensee's
> > > >
> > > > > control that will affect the viability of a signal
> > (ie:
> > > > The
> > > > > taxes/land value of a site far exceeds what could
> > > > resonably
> > > > > be billed by that signal) the FCC generally will try
>
> > to
> > > > work
> > > > > with whatever reasonable alternatives the licensee
> > > > proposes.
> > > > > Especially in a case where it will give a community
>
> > > it's
> > > > > first local service, such as the Millbrook move.
> > > > >
> > > > This will another great example of the fcc being a
> joke.
> >
> > > > The cities of geneva and st. charles certainly deserve
> a
> >
> > > > local station more than tiny millbrook.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Nobody is arguing that point with you! The reality is
> > that
> > > there is no cheap land available to put up a tower.
> > Period.
> > > Forget about getting a tower zoned in St. Charles or
> > > Geneva. Do you really think that residents of either
> town
> >
> > > would allow a tower in their neighborhood?
> > >
> > > If they could give it a go in St. Charles, they would.
> > > Heck, they at least bought the license after the
> previous
> > > owner shut it down. I didn't see many people fighting
> to
> > > get their hands on the license!
> > >
> > > You're projecting your indignance on the wrong people!
> > > Blame the people who live in St. Charles and
> > > Geneva...they're the ones making it impossible to put up
> a
> >
> > > tower!
> > >
> >
> > RD,
> >
> > With all due respect, and believe me, it's a lot of
> respect,
> > I'm afraid that I have go on the defensive.
> >
> > Is the problem coming from the city government or the
> > residents? How are St. Charles / Geneva residents the
> > problem? I agree with the cost of land being high and
> that
> > there are few places to put towers, but I am not aware of
> > anyone or any group in the town having a problem with the
> > addition of new towers. Unless you have heard
> otherwise...
> > Especially since there are several cellular towers in the
> > area. Land for one of those very tall cell towers in St.
> > Charles, is owned by a member of my immediate family.
> >
> > When the original towers went up, St. Charles and Geneva
> > were just small middle classed towns. It's only in the
> last
> > 20 years that it has become a higher income area. I can
> > understand people protesting a tower in one of the really
> > rich neigborhoods. However, there are plenty of older
> parts
> > of town. There is just no room in those parts. One
> > advantage this area has is that it is kind of the edge of
> > Chicago. There is a lot of open space 5 to 10 miles west,
>
> > in one of the many cornfields.
> >
> >
> > BTW.. Congrats on the Fybush articles!
> > nhh
> > Colonel Mustard
> >
>
>
> No worries...I'm not always right - just ask my wife! :)
>
> Anyway, I may have been a bit broad with my generalization,
> but I can tell you that to get a tower zoned in any urban
> area is difficult. Remember that with an AM tower you need
> a significant amount of land around the tower for the buried
> ground radials. Plus you want to have an area fairly open
> and away from tight residential areas. I can tell you from
> experience that when you light up an AM ina residential
> neighborhood your station gets blamed for everything from
> breaking appliances to causing athlete's foot!
>
> The bottom line is that although it technically may be
> possible to find a sliver of land on which to put up a
> tower, it is MUCH more difficult to find a decent site that
> doesn't require a large amount of compromise, as well as
> deep pockets.
>
> People don't actively say that they don't like towers, but
> boy do they come out in force when someone wants to put one
> up! Especially broadcast towers.
>
> Anyway, I am in no way saying that the people of St. Charles
> or Geneva are not worthy of a station, it just that it's
> highly unlikely that such a station would get enough support
> from local merchants and the community to get a good tower
> site secured, and get a proper tower built for a small AM
> station.
>
> It's all about the economics!
>

Thank you for the clarification.
 
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