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WTCQ 97.7 Vidalia

A

acheron1982

Need one of the brains to school me on this. Growing up, I was told that legally, you should be able to stand right beside a tower of a radio station and hear other radio stations on other frequencies without any issues. I was told that when the station bleeds into other stations at different frequencies that this is called "over-modulating".

I understand that 97.3 (almost a 100k watt station) will trip up a little in front of the tower that houses 97.7 ( a 3000 watt station) but if you are within a mile radius of the stick for WTCQ, you can actually hear the station at 97.7 being played simultaneously with other stations including 97.3 and 95.5. Even WQZY breaks up a little and comes in a little weaker around this radio station. Is this legal?
 
The first thing to consider is that receivers are not perfect. In fact, most receivers today are just too cheap. You may have discovered some strange relationships between all these frequencies, but I would test it out with several different receivers first. If they all produce the same scrambled signals, then you have raised a valid question about how transmitters and antennas work.
 
Goat Rodeo Cowboy said:
The first thing to consider is that receivers are not perfect. In fact, most receivers today are just too cheap. You may have discovered some strange relationships between all these frequencies, but I would test it out with several different receivers first. If they all produce the same scrambled signals, then you have raised a valid question about how transmitters and antennas work.
Click to expand...

Well here is another example. The title of this string is WTCQ 97.7 but actually this particular tower includes WYUM 101.7. So you have a tower with two stations that are roughly the same power. The frequencies on this tower include 97.7 and 101.7. Now if you are within a mile of the station (almost 2 miles east of the tower), you can actually hear both stations playing simultaneously on 96.7. The clarity is clear but your are simply hearing two different stations at the same time on one frequency. With regards to 95.5 and 97.3, two stations that should reach this area, the signal is literally at 0% (all static) within .02 of a mile from the station and very difficult to hear within a 2 mile radius of the station. Very unfortunate since the station is located in the middle of Vidalia right off the main drag through town.
 
As GRC said, receivers are not as well designed and manufactured as they used to be. Something may be causing a null close to the tower, which would account for the 0% signal you describe. Something seems amiss at the tower in the 97.7-101.7-96.7 situation, and this is causing the two signals to interact in an interesting way. Someone who has more expertise than I would be better suited to discuss the particulars, but the first thing I thought of was a signal-phasing issue.
 
Neil Griffin said:
Any chance that the 970 in Vidalia is on the same tower? 97.70-0.97=96.73.
Click to expand...


Yes it is. I'm not exactly sure how it works and correct me if I am wrong but FM stations use antennas that are placed on towers and AM stations use the actual physical tower to transmit, right? Regardless, I know for a fact 970 signal originates from that tower (rather it's the tower or an antenna).

There is another station in Vidalia, (50k watts) 91.5. This station is located in Higgston (just west of Vidalia). I drove out to the site today and while the distant Savannah stations lost reception near the tower, I noticed I had to be right at the tower (within 100 feet). I noticed that once I moved out of the shadow of the tower, the reception from the distant radio stations came back in. As I traveled towards the tower of issues coming from the west, reception started going out about 1/2 mile from the tower and completely was lost within .02 miles from the tower. As I passed the tower passing east of the tower, reception stayed poor for about 1 mile. I also noticed that it was static for the most part on 95.5 but I pulled over and could actually here the FM station (97.7 and 101.7) blending onto 95.5. Once I got passed the tower by about 1 mile, the station started coming in clear.

One more thing, 97.3 gave me issued all the way out to Lyons but either the tower for 97.3 is closer into Savannah vs the other stations (95.5, 102.1 and 93.1) or 97.3 has a directional signal. 102.1 and 96.5 gave me the least issue (probably considering it's higher up the tower).

I spend some time in Atlanta as well and have learned that height on the tower actually means more than power. They have 100k stations that get out about the same distance as 25k stations because the 25k stations are higher up the tower. This tid bit of information has nothing to do with the discussion but figured I would throw that in there for fun. :p
 
All the stations you mentioned are within 500 yards of each other. 94.1, 97.3 and 93.1 are on the same tower. 94.1 and 97.3 are on the highest antenna just above 1300' with the 93.1 antenna around 1100'. 102.1, 95.5 and 96.5 are on a tower across the road with 102.1 around 1300', 96.5 at 1150' and 95.5 at 1000'.

When I travel through Vidalia I also lose the stations when I get near the tower on the west side of town but only for a few minutes. The amount of downward radiation really depends on what type of antenna the station has.
 
rcombs said:
All the stations you mentioned are within 500 yards of each other. 94.1, 97.3 and 93.1 are on the same tower. 94.1 and 97.3 are on the highest antenna just above 1300' with the 93.1 antenna around 1100'. 102.1, 95.5 and 96.5 are on a tower across the road with 102.1 around 1300', 96.5 at 1150' and 95.5 at 1000'.

When I travel through Vidalia I also lose the stations when I get near the tower on the west side of town but only for a few minutes. The amount of downward radiation really depends on what type of antenna the station has.
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Mr. Combs- Are the 100k watt stations you mentioned at all directional? I ask because 97.3 and 94.1 really does not even come in. 93.1, 96.5 and 102.1 are the clearest and 95.5 begins to go out in Lyons. I just don't understand why 97.3 and 94.1 don't come in any clearer than they do.

They are ALL 100k watt stations, correct?
 
yes, they are all 100kw and no, they are not directional. I believe that 97.3 and 94.1 have either a first or second adjacent station to the west that may hinder their signal. Also, right now I believe 94.1 is having transmitter problems.
 
Actually, 97.7 is the second adjacent to 97.3, so that would explain their signal loss.
 
Mr. Combs, you ought to teach. I never fail to both learn and understand a little more than I knew before reading your comments on any of these threads re: radio in Georgia.
 
Thank you.
 
rcombs said:
yes, they are all 100kw and no, they are not directional. I believe that 97.3 and 94.1 have either a first or second adjacent station to the west that may hinder their signal. Also, right now I believe 94.1 is having transmitter problems.
Click to expand...

I have heard some seemingly strange things over the years...blending/mixing of distant and local FM signals that produce audio at a frequency far removed from any of the stations' assigned frequencies. Sometimes exciter issues or a faulty harmonic filter can cause splatter all over the band.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that Vidalia is outside the Savannah stations' 60 dBu (interference free) contour. While many FM stations have listenable signals that reach many miles beyond their 1 mV/m contour in some directions, they're still subject to interference.
 
Here are three reasons why there are problems with the three Vidalia radio stations.

1. Over Modulation

2. Exciter has filter problems

3. Folded unipole AM station is interacting with two FM's on the same antenna.
 
If this is in fact true, how come something has not been done? Is this not illegal?

P.S.- Spoke to an elderly woman who lives near the station who claimed she use to have metal cabinets in her house and could actually hear the AM station through the metal. Did not know if that was even possible. She is elderly so she might be talking out of her mind but hey... you never know.
 
People do pick up radio stations through their bridgework, so I suppose it is possible, but it's a little above my experience code to explain how it would happen.

Stations are required to limit spurious emissions and avoid interference to other stations and services, but there is little enforcement unless someone complains, usually. If, as someone suggested, there is a problem with the exciter filter and/or the modulation, this may not be found until annual maintenance and proofs of performance are done. There is also the possibility that the station is aware of the problem and doing all it can do to solve it, but has not yet got a handle on it.


Since a station's product is its signal, one would hope that station management would be quickly aware of any problems, and eager to correct them. All being equal, however, no one can control what radio waves do to and with each other once they are traveling through the atmosphere. Is there a physicist in the house?
 
95.5 goes out in lyons? Must be the radio station 97,7. I have been to Vidilia may times and notice the interference. I live closer to Dublin and the station WKKZ 92.7 fades out many stations. It fades out 93.7 in Macon 99.1 in Macon and a few other distant stations but still close enough I should get. Last summer lightning ran in on WKKZ and burned everything out. They had to replace everything. Even the antenna on the tower was replaced. They were low power for a few weeks. I was hoping it would not fade stations anymore but it still happens. Back to 97.7 WTCQ someone said a lady hears the station through her metal cabnets? Is that possible? And has for AM stations the tower being the antenna. Maybe in some cases but most towers you can see a wire on the guide lines or running down the tower 3 foot standoffs. I believe that is the antenna for the AM transmitter.
 
Yes, some AM stations run on a folded unipole antenna. WBMQ, WJLG and WSSA run on one in Savannah. Our is a 3-wire antenna but I have seen 4 and 6 wire set ups. You just have to ground the antenna at the 1/4 wavelength point on the tower. Using this type of antenna allows you to put other things on the tower, such as cellular or a FM station without having to use isocouplers.
If you saw a wire running down the guy wire it was probably a longwire antenna which will work but is not very efficient. Mostly used for temporary service or an emergency.

Metal cabinets could be an antenna but grounding them should take care of it. I have never seen an occassion where an FM station was heard without speakers but an AM can resonate off some things. If there was a metal cased radio sitting on the metal speakers then that is a possibility but more than likely the RF is just getting into the wiring of the radio. WTYB had that problem when we moved it to Oatland Island. You could hear it on anything with a speaker for a 5 mile radius. Problem was the antenna was installed wrong.
 
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