WUFT Goes Talk -- What happens to 850?

[smedge2006]

There's a report that WUFT is following the lead of other public stations and dumping classical for talk. UF is also moving the student-produced news hour from 850 to WUFT. Does this mean the University is finally ready to look at dumping 850 -- a station it can't possibly run to any advantage now that even news-talk audiences are predominantly FM in Gainesville?

I happen to think 850 would be a great spot to park a liberal talker, or for 1230 to move its sports format for a bigger signal.

Or perhaps WFTL down south could buy it to cut out its null to the north...

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20090702/ARTICLES/907029922/-1/NEWS03?Title=UF-station-will-drop-music-for-talk-radio

 

[cceng1]

It wouldn't surprise me if WUFT-FM puts the Classical 24/7 over on HD2 like they did on the public station here in Panama City.....

 

[ThatGuyOnTheRadio]

You would be right cceng, this is from the article in the Gainesville Sun.

"...moving classical music to its Web site and high-definition HD2 signal. The station's nickname, Classic 89, also is being dropped."

It will be interesting to see what happens to 850. Sale? Simulcast? or maybe throw Classical on the AM? Though I wouldn't imagine the Classic music would sound very good on AM.

If they put it up for sale, who would scoop it up? Would ESPN move to 850 and sell 1230?

Would Doug Gillen snag 850 and throw Radio Disney on that since WAJD-1390 is and has been off the air for quite some time.

Perhaps Pamal will sell 1430 or 980 and throw WTMN or WDVH on.

So many possibilities... only time will tell!

 

[Kmagrill]

WRUF's history as the oldest radio station in North Florida (on the air since 1928) makes it unlikely that UF will sell it. They could let the student have a crack at actually running a radio station, but WRUF AM and FM are both commercial stations, so they are self-supporting. With a continuing revenue stream from WRUF-AM, I suspect that UF will aim the format at an older target and continue to bundle sales with the FM for the forseeable future. Of course, most academics don't even live in the real world, so there's no telling what foolishness the controlling powers might be planning....

As for WAJD, rumor has it that there are plans to fix the transmitter and get it back on the air soon.

 

[Jeff2]

I can't see UF selling 850. They carry UF baseball, women's basketball, and volleyball in addition to football and men's basketball. Maybe they'll go 24 sports and leave all the local news for WUFT. I wonder if they could get ESPN from WGGG since they have a much better signal? A good portion of their programming is sports all ready so it wouldn't be a big change.

 

[smedge2006]

I can't see UF selling 850. They carry UF baseball, women's basketball, and volleyball in addition to football and men's basketball.

It may shock you to know that most universities do not own the broadcast outlets for even their minor sports.

WRUF's history as the oldest radio station in North Florida (on the air since 1928) makes it unlikely that UF will sell it. They could let the student have a crack at actually running a radio station, but WRUF AM and FM are both commercial stations, so they are self-supporting.

The state university system has had to make some draconian cuts. Yes, they are self supporting, but if some state lawmaker gets a bug up his suit wondering why the university is competing with commercial businesses in the middle of a recession... (Republicans do still control Tallahassee) and wondering what the sale of a non-critical asset could do to help the university's core budget... anything is possible.

 

[Kmagrill]

The state university system has had to make some draconian cuts. Yes, they are self supporting, but if some state lawmaker gets a bug up his suit wondering why the university is competing with commercial businesses in the middle of a recession... (Republicans do still control Tallahassee) and wondering what the sale of a non-critical asset could do to help the university's core budget... anything is possible.

Well, WRUF not only supports itself, but the extra funds go to the State Treasury. They're not likely to want to give that up since it is a source of revenue in a tight budget period.

This issue of government competing with the private sector has been hashed out many times. Ownership of WRUF has also been approved by the FCC a few times. Back in the 1970s and 1980s, there was some discussion about the legality of the University owning two FM stations in the same market, but WRUF was owned by the board of regents and WUFT is owned by UF, making it technically legal, back then, even though both were operated from the J-school. Since the FCC has given its blessing to State ownership of WRUF during both Republican and Democratic governments for the past 80 years, it would be a very long shot indeed for someone at the state level to organize the divestiture of WRUF.

WRUF could consider going to HD, which could, in the long run, lead the way into new musical formats. Or they could just continue to do what they are doing now, which is be a training ground for students interested in commercial radio.

 

[smedge2006]

This issue of government competing with the private sector has been hashed out many times. Ownership of WRUF has also been approved by the FCC a few times. Back in the 1970s and 1980s, there was some discussion about the legality of the University owning two FM stations in the same market, but WRUF was owned by the board of regents and WUFT is owned by UF, making it technically legal, back then, even though both were operated from the J-school. Since the FCC has given its blessing to State ownership of WRUF during both Republican and Democratic governments for the past 80 years, it would be a very long shot indeed for someone at the state level to organize the divestiture of WRUF.

The fact that the FCC has given its blessing doesn't stop lawmakers -- or the state university board of governors -- from considering the issue. Remember too, that it could be spun into symbolism as the GOP fights the "public option" in areas such as health care. I question how much $$ 850 is putting into state coffers these days. Gator sports play by play is the station's only draw -- and that could be placed anywhere. The students have always done a yeoman job with news, but the university totally missed the opportunity to transform 850 into a modern news talker -- and that niche was snapped up by Sky 97.3. If it's a self-supporting business, then judge it as a business -- who's listening?

 

[Jeff2]

Before the real estate business tanked, UF could have probably made a bundle by selling the tower site on SW 75th. They could downgrade from B to D and put up a single tower on university land somewhere (not subject to city/county zoning?) and go with a minimum night signal. It's happening other places.

 

[The Ultimate Warrior]

As a UF grad I will tell you this, the way the college handles their radio stations is an embarrassment.

The students get zero value from these properties. They need a complete housecleaning and over haul that leads to some student generated content besides a completely useless one hour news show with no commercial value in the real world.

And the rock station runs a syndicated morning show? Really?

 

[MN Maniac]

Don't get me started on the ways the UF student population has been shafted over the years with regards to the operation of WRUF-FM. Replacing local talent with a syndicated morning show (especially one that can be heard locally via it's Jacksonville flagship station) was the icing on the cake.

 

[ThatGuyOnTheRadio]

Warrior, that's not a huge shock. Makes you wonder how much the TeleCom professors make, especially the PD at RUF-FM.

I fail to see how 850 makes any money on it's own, not thrown in a at a reduced rate (or nothing at all) for buying Rock-104. They hardly ever show up in the 12+ ratings.

The fact that the State of Florida owns and operates (and you can't tell me they don't... board of trustees, etc all state employees) a COMMERCIAL radio station is a terrible thing.

Can anyone tell me that they get NO SUPPORT from the University system if billing is down a few months in a row? C'mon... be like most other schools and be NON-COMM and that's it.

The FCC and government has looked it over for 80 years? They overlook a lot of things, it's amazing what money can do... republican, democrat or wig party (if they were still around) doesn't matter WHAT party they are part of, they all LOVE money.

 

[Kmagrill]

Warrior, that's not a huge shock. Makes you wonder how much the TeleCom professors make, especially the PD at RUF-FM.

I fail to see how 850 makes any money on it's own, not thrown in a at a reduced rate (or nothing at all) for buying Rock-104. They hardly ever show up in the 12+ ratings.

The fact that the State of Florida owns and operates (and you can't tell me they don't... board of trustees, etc all state employees) a COMMERCIAL radio station is a terrible thing.

Can anyone tell me that they get NO SUPPORT from the University system if billing is down a few months in a row? C'mon... be like most other schools and be NON-COMM and that's it.

The FCC and government has looked it over for 80 years? They overlook a lot of things, it's amazing what money can do... republican, democrat or wig party (if they were still around) doesn't matter WHAT party they are part of, they all LOVE money.

Although I basically agree with the sentiment that the state should not compete with private enterprise, I do know, as a UF grad, too, that WRUF is self supporting. WRUF-AM mostly hangs on to the coat tails of WRUF-Fm these days, but Rock 104 does well enough in the ratings to draw money. All of the staff, professional and student alike draw their checks from a pool of money that the station has paid to the state. What would the state do if WRUF was a little short on revenue? They would require layoffs, which has happened, but not in the past 40 years. Also, there's a pretty big difference between overlooking something and having something that has been closely studied and approved. The latter is what has happened to WRUF over the years. These questions have been actively asked and answered several times over the station's life. WRUF used to keep a big file full of the legal opinions about just that subject.

So, badly run as it may be, it does still contribute to the State of Florida's treasury. One thing that WRUF affords the Jornalism school is the ability to teach students how radio works at a commercial facility. At last count, there were only three three universities with commercail radio properties and UF is the biggest of them. And, while I think that the J-school is a joke, I think the people in charge value that training ground enough to want to keep it.

So, should WRUF be in the hands of UF? Well, I think both sides have valid points, but I suspect that it's really a mute argument. It just is what it is and will probably be so for the foreseeable future.

 

[The Ultimate Warrior]

Just to be crystal clear, I don't have a problem with a for profit station being run by the University. My problem lies with the lack of real student input.

Running NPR programs, syndicated shows, a show by a professor and a completely ridiculous news magazine (who does these in the real world) makes no sense.

Shame on UF for wasting the opportunity for the students to get a real education.

 

[Kmagrill]

Just to be crystal clear, I don't have a problem with a for profit station being run by the University. My problem lies with the lack of real student input.

Running NPR programs, syndicated shows, a show by a professor and a completely ridiculous news magazine (who does these in the real world) makes no sense.

Shame on UF for wasting the opportunity for the students to get a real education.

Very true. Student input has always been limited in all of the UF broadcast facilities. They certainly could do a better job than they do. 25 years ago, when I was a student, WRUF was a laughing stock. Today.... Well, not much has changed.

I do understand the reasons for this. Getting students to reliably run WRUF, semester after semester, has been a challenge. They automated, basically, because of staffing problems. Back in the 1970s, any UF student could work at WRUF. The rule was later changed so that only J students were permitted to work, as students, at the station. This was done because, prior to the rule change, J students sometimes had trouble getting on the air at WRUF. After excluding all of the other students, WRUF found itself short-staffed, which is the way it's been for about 25 years, now. Probably, the better thing to do would have been to allow non-J-school UF students to work at WRUF, on a secondary basis. I don't think that Dean Lowenstein or Bob Leach realized, all those years ago, that restricting the staff would force WRUF on the course that it took. The problem of course, is that almost nobody ever goes back and analyzes these decisions to see how they worked out in the end. If they did, they could have changed things a long time ago.

I think it would be a great idea to separate WRUF-AM from WRUF-FM and let the students program WRUF-AM, operate it, sell the advertising, and basically run a commercial station with a little guidance from the professional staff. Who cares if it makes money if it can be a useful teaching tool, as it should be?

 

[greenie]

I have been through Gainesville several times over the past year and am always stunned at how bad WRUF AM sounds. It has to be one of the worst processed stations of its heritage anywhere. Can't someone from UF's engineering department figure this out? No wonder no one listens. It's poor processing, maybe bad antenna bandwith, or transmitter issues, IMHO. Just my two cents!

 

[Kmagrill]

I have been through Gainesville several times over the past year and am always stunned at how bad WRUF AM sounds. It has to be one of the worst processed stations of its heritage anywhere. Can't someone from UF's engineering department figure this out? No wonder no one listens. It's poor processing, maybe bad antenna bandwith, or transmitter issues, IMHO. Just my two cents!

Poor sound at WRUF is not for lack of equipment or money. WRUF-AM had one of the first Optimod 9100s in town, but never used it very effectively. I don't know what they have, now. The antenna system is an older design, but I saw a proof of performance run on it years ago and it was flat out past 40kHz in NDA mode and to 25kHz in DA. I think it's just that nobody at WRUF really feels comfortable adjusting the sound of the station.

I believe poor ratings are, generally, a function of poor programming rather than a function of processing choices. I once heard a major group DE remind a programming consultant of this when he pointed out that the highest rated station in the entire group of 14 stations was a 250W AM station which was beating a dozen 100kW FM stations in Kansas City. While I would certainly agree that some stations in each market do sound better than others, still within reason, I would suggest that audio quality plays a very minor role in the overall listening habits for any particular station compared to programming.

 

[ThatGuyOnTheRadio]

Well said Magrill, however, a relatively well processed station, is important... Personally, as far as AM processing goes, WRUF-AM doesn't sound too terrible.

I firmly believe WRUF should re-consider it's programming choices if it really wants to become more of a player in this market. They need to be a lot more full-tilt LOCAL news/talk/information station. SKY's local news leaves something to be desired... Gainesville/Ocala really doesn't have a reliable LOCAL news station on the radio... A station similar to (though not nearly as advanced... given market size) WOKV local news-wise, know what I mean?

I would assume the size of the J class at UF should suffice to deliever more local programming then they currently do.

On another note, a makeover to the website would be nice too. Nothing compelling about it.

Just my 2 cents!

 

[smedge2006]

A station similar to (though not nearly as advanced... given market size) WOKV local news-wise, know what I mean?

Three problems:

1. WOKV's news is lettuce on the burger. The meat is Limbaugh, Hannity, and all the bigname syndicated shows -- most of which are on SKY. OKV's news is a lot of sizzle and very little steak -- I never hear more than one street reporter and that's usually in morning drive for "imaging" purposes. More news won't make a big difference by itself.

2. I'd welcome local talk in any form, but those of you who think the students do a rough job with local news will be dumbfounded if you turn any of them loose hosting a talk show. Who would train them to be good talk show hosts? Most talk PD's philosophy seems to be "sink or swim."

3. If it adds a lot of syndication, 850 would take on a political tilt. If it goes right, it risks ticking off the mostly liberal community that surrounds it. If it goes left, it will tick off the Republican legislature. Which is probably why it has stayed what it is, with mostly apolitical shows and sports.

 

[fluff]

Was looking for info on the WUFT layoffs and came across this board. I'm a UF j-school grad who worked at WUFT through undergrad and grad, then went back on staff for several years in the WUFT-FM newsroom. I can't speak to WRUF (since I never worked there, though know plenty who did/do), but my understanding is that these latest changes and layoffs were due, in part, to WRUF's financial hemorrhaging.

Here's an interesting article, focusing on the pubradio/TV side of things. But it raises some interesting questions about implications for the commercial side as well: http://www.current.org/funding/funding0913florida.shtml