WUNR Signal

[HHH]

I realize that WUNR's signal has always been extremely weak toward Natick-Wellesley, but now it is completely gone, even in the daytime.
As a matter of fact, I was on Rt 128 near the TV towers the other day and could barely get them.

I thought they were upping power....not to say that they null would be better, but I didn't think that it would get worse.

Are they on temporary power or antenna or something? It is really just about off the dial only yards (almost) from the site.

 

[DanStrassberg]

I realize that WUNR's signal has always been extremely weak toward Natick-Wellesley, but now it is completely gone, even in the daytime. As a matter of fact, I was on Rt 128 near the TV towers the other day and could barely get them. I thought they were upping power....not to say that they null would be better, but I didn't think that it would get worse. Are they on temporary power or antenna or something?It is really just about off the dial only yards (almost) from the site.

First off, the power increase (from 5 kW-U to 20 kW-U) was not as much of an increase as you might think. Because the tower height was reduced from 205 degrees to 114 degrees, the RMS field did not double as you might expect (field~sqrt(pwr)). Rather, the effect was equivalent to increasing from 5 kW to ~14 kW using towers the same height as the old ones--in other words, a power increase of 2.8X, not 4X. Still, 2.8X should be significant. However, unlike WRCA, which is DA-2, WUNR is (and was) DA-1, meaning its day pattern carries its nighttime signal restrictions and vice versa. More importantly, as part of this power increase, WUNR had to conform to the FCC's infamous AM "ratchet rule," which requires significant signal redutions of any AM that makes signifcant technical changes. Thus, WUNR's signal to the west had to be reduced to better protect WWRL and WHNP, to the north to better protect WSMN, and to the south to better protect WARV. That leaves only east--and the signal there is a lot stronger--especially in the inner city, where, fortunately, nearly all of WUNR's target audience lives. WUNR's 5 mV/m city-grade day contour and its only slightly smaller NIF night contour encompass Brookline (the CoL), Boston, Quincy, most of Newton, probably Cambridge, Somerville, and Medford. and a few places on the North Shore (Everett comes to mind).

 

[HHH]

Thanks for the info, Dan!

I had it on again yesterday, and the null is REALLY a null now. Much much worse than before, which was already pretty deep. Completely and totally gone now in Wellesley-Needham, even in the middle of the day. Wow, is that TIGHT!

 

[mgpt6]

Would not this stations be better off with a Class A FM in an expanded FM band 76-88 Mhz.

HHH ,is ZLX still doing 5.1 on their HD-1, or are they back to stereo on HD-1 to have bits for Freeform BCN ob ZLX-HD-3?

 

[DanStrassberg]

Would not this stations be better off with a Class A FM in an expanded FM band 76-88 Mhz.

Not now and not for years to come, if ever! Receivers that pick up FM on 76 to 88 MHZ are not yet in the hands of the public. Unless/until those receivers reach the public in quantity, WUNR et al will do just as well with FM-multiplex subcarriers on existing FM stations. (These subcarriers are NOT HD-n subchannels; the technology is analog and is decades older than the iBiquity system.) And doing as well as a broadcaster leasing an FM subcarrier does not imply doing as well as WUNR, which by all reports has always been quite profitable and continues to be. Remember, even though you may have trouble picking up WUNR in Needham, it still comes in like gangbusters day and night in Roxbury on radios that you can buy anywhere for $10.00 or so. In several markets, broadcasters trying to reach various ethnic minorities have sold FM multiplex receivers in their communities and rented the subcarriers from FM stations. This was done in New York and I think in Los Angeles. AFAIK, it has not been tried in Boston.

 

[mgpt6]

Dan, In the long term, would the public be served by migrating Class 2 ,3 and 4 AMs to an expanded FM band in the space vacated by TV Ch 5 and 6 .(76-88Mhz) Have AM left to Class1 50kw stations. If the FCC decided to do this, it would take a 10-15 year transisiton.

 

[DanStrassberg]

Dan, In the long term, would the public be served by migrating Class 2 ,3 and 4 AMs to an expanded FM band in the space vacated by TV Ch 5 and 6 .(76-88Mhz) Have AM left to Class1 50kw stations. If the FCC decided to do this, it would take a 10-15 year transisiton.

First, get your terminology straight. Officially, there have not been any Class I, II, III, or IV AMs in a l-o-o-ng time. (My guess is since sometime in the 1980s.) That's when the Rio treaty was signed and the AM Classes were changed to A (the former IAs and IBs), B (probably the largest class--all of the former Class IIs and IIIs, except for daytimers--the exception includes daytimers that operate fulltime with nominal night power), C (also a large class--the former Class IVs), and D (the former Class IIDs and IIIDs, that is, the daytimers--including those that have been granted nominal night power).

Would I like to see all or most of these stations move to FM on 76 to 88 MHz? Yes, except that I would not like the cost of replacing all of my radios--especially my car radio, which has a perfectly good car wrapped around it;>) Do I think this is very likely to happen? In my lifetime, no, but I'm old. When and if it does happen, though, the public is not going to rush out and replace all of the radios that can't receive the new, expanded, FM band, so there will have to be an extended transition period. During at least the initial part of that period, stations that don't remain on AM will be at a severe economic disadvantage. Would I expect WUNR to be eager to make such a move? Hell no! Would they do it eventually? Probably.

 

[Jacko]

What? They're expanding the FM band down to 76 MHz? More corporate automated stations and even more pirate stations? Sign me up!

I did have a Walkman that if you played around with the buttons you could get stations between 76-88 FM, which I believe was the Japanese band, however at that time the only thing you could hear was IF hash from nearby existing FM stations. Several years ago, they did expand the AM band from 1600 to 1700, so I guess it was a matter of time before they did the same for FM.

Is the FCC accepting license applications yet?

Jacko

 

[carmen]

What? They're expanding the FM band down to 76 MHz?

I did have a Walkman that could get stations between 76-88 FM, which I believe was the Japanese band,

pocketable music players have it (Sandisk, iRiver, Cowon), and shortwave (Tecsun, Degen, Eton). iPod Nano will surely be sold in japan, so likely yes


ATSC DTV wasn't used in the band due to to 'impulse noise'

 

[DanStrassberg]

ATSC DTV wasn't used in the band due to to 'impulse noise'

Maybe that band wasn't used for ATSC in other countries, but Channel 6 (82 to 88-MHz) definitely is used got DTV in the US. The DTV signals of WPVI Philadelphia and WRGB Schenectady NY are both on Channel 6. And while those are two stations I happen to know about, they may not be the only ones. There may be other channels to which WRGB could move if it wanted to, which, apparently, it doesn't want to do. WPVI is reportedly very unhappy, however, because its viewers are very unhappy with the reception and have been complaining to the station in droves. In that very densely populated area of the country, it has nowhere to go, however.

 

[mgpt6]

There are very few Low VHF (2-6) full power DTV in the US. Maybe 40 in all .

 

[HHH]

mgpt6:

I believe that WZLX is still experimenting with discrete surround transmission on HD, and, from what I understand, it is still strictly a cooperative lab experiment with FhG in Germany and others. I am sure that the general lack of interest in HD radio among the masses has not exactly fast-tracked
receiver companies to get on board with FhG licensing ($$). A shame because it sounds great, as Scott Fybush will concur. I know that FhG is working on a discrete method for analog (matrix versions exist but all current versions are just phase trickery and suck), and they are probably playing with that, too.

I am told that FhG surround on HD requires only 5 kbps of dedicated HD bandwidth, so it seems the impact to other HD services on 100.7 is negligible.

 

[HHH]

Dan:

Thanks for your explanations about WUNR.

I suppose that it does not make any difference if the signal is gone to the west, because--as you say--the station targets the city.

Plus, they now stream on the net, if you really want to hear it.

It is just amazing to me, tho, how tight they can pull this in. I was probably 5 miles from the site and couldn't get the station at all!

 

[DanStrassberg]

It is just amazing to me, tho, how tight they can pull this in. I was probably 5 miles from the site and couldn't get the station at all!

Well, with five towers, if things work out as planned--something that all too often doesn't happen with AM DAs--you can do A LOT. I suspect that WUNR may have its pattern pulled in tighter than the CP requires, however. Here's why: WKOX/WUNR/WRCA were the first AMs to benefit from the new rules on proof-of-performance measurements. As I undersatand it (and maybe I've got this wrong), it is now often possible to avoid making those measurements, which can be very expensive and time consuming (and in certain cases, impossible to make, as when access to the null points is forbidden--an example might be when those points lie on a military reservation with restricted access). Anyhow, my theory is that, had the measurements been made, WUNR could have let out its pattern a little bit. If they want to do that, though, they must make those measurements, then make the adjustments, then repeat the measurements--often more than once to prove that the adjustments are stable. If they loosen things up a tad too much, they must then go back to step 1 and keep repeating until they achieve the desired result. Station management probably doesn't feel that covering Needham a little better would be worth the trouble and cost.

 

[mgpt6]

HHH:
In the 1970s ,Lou Dorren had a system of 4channel discrete on FM. it required additonal subcarriers. In fact , the FCC approved it use on FM. Wouldnt the FHg system require additonal subcarriers for discrete surround on analog FM?

 

[Eli Polonsky]

HHH:
In the 1970s ,Lou Dorren had a system of 4channel discrete on FM. it required additonal subcarriers. In fact , the FCC approved it use on FM. Wouldnt the FHg system require additonal subcarriers for discrete surround on analog FM?

They're not using it on their analog FM. Only on their HD-1.

 

[The Original]

It's always been about inside 128 for WUNR. I think the transmitter site is a win-win-win for all three stations involved. I drove over to see the finished work for the first time a few weeks ago, and I was impressed. I also spoke with someone who told me the new studios for WUNR at downtown crossing are also impressive.

I'm only disappointed that WKOX is no longer Framingham-based with its old full-service format. It was once a $uper $uburban $tation.

 

[HHH]

mgpt6:

"HHH:
In the 1970s ,Lou Dorren had a system of 4channel discrete on FM. it required additonal subcarriers. In fact , the FCC approved it use on FM. Wouldnt the FHg system require additonal subcarriers for discrete surround on analog FM?"

Yes, they would need this for analog and, from what I understand, it is possible by using some of the old SCA spectrum, which is pretty much empty these days in many cases.

 

[wcozBoston]

Seems that FCC could solve a lot of the interference issues with both AM and FM by expanding the FM band down to 76MHz. First, they could offer certain AM band broadcasters the opportunity to move to the 76-88MHz band, especially restrictive directional and day-light only stations. This would free up the AM band with the ones that remain creating more un-restrictive omni-directional AM stations. For example, WILD 1090 could move to 77.7MHz, giving WBAL no interference from WILD. Even WFNX, who has to protect WWBB could move to another frequency in the new band. The transition process could go for a period of several years, ultimately reducing interference on both FM and AM bands in the end.