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WUUF?

Op,

Advertising to an "out of market business" only works if people are going to be coming to your market in the first place.

Vegas is a destination. People in Vegas already know what's there. When Vegas advertises in another market, they look for stations that have the best ratings in the demographic that they're trying to bring to Vegas - like 25-54 males. They don't look for a .1 share - no matter what the source.

In your original example, you cited a business in Ashtabula advertising on a Buffalo radio station that, through freak of nature, comes in clearly in Ashtabula. The response is "what kind of numbers does that station get in Ashtabula". If that Buffalo station gets a .1, then buying airtime on that Buffalo station - which will be considerably more expensive than buying local Ashtabula airtime - won't get you any new customers, or remind old customers that you're still around.

In your most recent question, you ask about advertising in distant markets because you have a "destination" business that will interest people from many miles away. The R&R Hall of Fame in Cleveland does this. The Province of Ontario advertises in NY, PA, OH, MI, and other states within driving distance because they feel that they have attractions that those people don't have in their own back yards. Once again, it's not a distant signal rim-shotting into the market that does the advertising - it's cost-effective stations in the target market.

So, the Ashtabula pizzeria advertising on Buffalo radio would be throwing money away. Cedar Point, however, is a destination that will draw families and roller-coaster enthusiasts from other markets. There aren't enough local residents to keep Cedar Point in business, so they have to advertise in other markets to bring in customers. Since they're staying in business, that would seem to be money well-spent.
 
rox...dam!
as usual, awesome respsonse. (nailed it) , and Thank You.

well.. to quote your peer, "Perry Mason" (maybe not yours),
but some of u fine folks here....

"I have no further questions!"

Yea, i read about that mason guy in one of my history books!
 
Wuuf

i remember seeing commercials on rochester tv stations for big dog country wuuf 103.5...but where i lived in western monroe county, we coudn't get the station....for 2 reasons i suspect
1.transimtter location was in sodus (roughly the midpoint between rochester and oswego)
2.canadian radio station CIDC based out of toronto Z103.5 created a co-channel conflict....esp west of irondequoit/charlotte beach.....
what i wonder is why would big dog country 103.5 put their transmitter in sodus unless they were going the route of being a "finger lakes" market station like the former 99.3 the pulse, and winner 98.5 (which i believe were based in geneva) would be my only guess seeing that rochester's share of WNY had a strong country outlet with WBEE, and the communities in the eastern third of WNY which pick up syracuse radio (geneva, seneca falls, newark etc) had B 104.7....to me didn't make any sense to compete against two established country stations both of which can be heard clearly at your source location....
 
Inquiry here -
say if u are the buffalo market ( hey, we are : )
and, your station...pick any one of them !
is able to CLEARLY reach...(thru skipping, jumping,
shadowing) ?what ever it takes,

anyways, the station/signal is CLEAR (consistently)

in(for example) .........ashtabula, Ohio...
is it worth while (enough) to have an
occassional spot for........
(examples)
the pizza place, in the village mall/ohio,
the jewerly store on 557 main st, ashtabula, ohio???


here are some examples of just that...businesses located on the outer reaches of a market advertising...
1.for years jan's smoke shop in akron advertised heavily on rochester's FMs in spite of being located slightly west of the drop off point for most rochester stations. destination stop though because i knew many friends when i lived in rochester (some as far east as webster and penfield) who'd make the trip there for lower priced gas and smokes...
2.the asylum smokeshop in auburn(roughly 60 miles east of rochester) used to buy up spots on 95.1 the nerve in the early 2000s...perhaps this was because at the time WNVE had a signal and listenership that penetrated well into the syracuse region...
3.the former ridge rd station in holley used to buy advertising on buffalo's FMs during the holiday season....in spite of being located 65 miles northeast of the queen city and only 19 miles from rochester....

in my eyes it depends on 3 factors
1.radio station's reach
2.business owner's customer base (how far will their they come to buy)
3.sales rep's willingness to sell the sizzle of their station to businesses on the fringes of the listening range

a buffalo fm station reaching ashtabula would be quite a stretch, seeing as the majority of erie stations die off not far past exit 228 (route 11) on I 90...could happen though, given the right wind direction and humidity....question is which of the Buffalo FMs would be most likely to reach the furthest southwest??
 
You guys do know there's groups like Martz communications that tend to do silly stuff like this...right?

It's a miracle they didn't buy 92.9 and tell Toronto that they have a brand new radio station. (while broadcasting out of Buffalo)

They did just that with the Ottawa market, using Fox FM, a station that is alot closer to Cornwall Ontario.

I may not be fully aware of distance in RBO's example, but I do know it's being done...

(due to poor signal in Ottawa, Fox fm is currently targeting Cornwall)

does wbuf even reach toronto? their signal is really weak in lewiston/youngstown with a co-channel from somewhere in the toronto market breaking in.....
 
does wbuf even reach toronto? their signal is really weak in lewiston/youngstown with a co-channel from somewhere in the toronto market breaking in.....

It really depends on where you are in Toronto(ie upper beaches = higher land, better signal than lower beaches Toronto), but I'm willing to say that WBUF reaches Toronto better than the Fox ever could reach Ottawa.
HOWEVER,
it may still be smarter to target Niagara falls or Hamilton if there is any desire to target a Canadian market from Buffalo, since those markets are a lot closer.

***example of upper beaches: Top of hill Kingston Road, example of lower beaches, bottom of hill, Queen street.
 
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It really depends on where you are in Toronto(ie upper beaches = higher land, better signal than lower beaches Toronto), but I'm willing to say that WBUF reaches Toronto better than the Fox ever could reach Ottawa.
HOWEVER,
it may still be smarter to target Niagara falls or Hamilton if there is any desire to target a Canadian market from Buffalo, since those markets are a lot closer.

***example of upper beaches: Top of hill Kingston Road, example of lower beaches, bottom of hill, Queen street.

wondered about how far and how many of buffalo's radio stations reach into canada...because many of them start falling off just north of niagara falls....(WEDG, WJYE, WBUF, especially WLKK) with there being 30-40 miles of land between the south shore of lake ontario and downtown buffalo and 40-50 miles from most of the buffalo FM's transmitter locations in the boston hills....i also remember some years ago driving on the 401 east of toronto and hearing 98pxy and 100.5 the drive out of rochester....(but then again standing on the shore in clarington or oshawa you look southeast can see the distant smoke stacks of eastman kodak's former site on mount read blvd/west ridge rd across the water)
 
There was a time when WBUF got into Toronto a lot better than it does now. They moved from a stick with a lot more height out in the Boston hills to the stick behind WIVB on Elmwood Avenue. Penetration is better in some parts of the city, but the metro signal shrank significantly. The CTRC has also issued numerous LP-FM allocations in Toronto, on first adjacents and sometimes directly on Buffalo frequencies.
 
Thank-you SirRoxalot. Excellent points. 93.1 out of Barrie Ontario also likes to find it's way into select parts of Toronto, bleeding into 92.9 sometimes.
 
Thank-you SirRoxalot. Excellent points. 93.1 out of Barrie Ontario also likes to find it's way into select parts of Toronto, bleeding into 92.9 sometimes.

that is especially true anywhere north of highway 7....esp once you go below the ridges on the 400 just north of vaughan/richmond hill....believe it or not i've hear 93.1 relatively clearly along route 104 in orleans county on a number of occasions
 
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