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WWVA (long)

P

Pratte4Life

In the topic below about the Capitol Theatre I mentioned how I think that the theatre can be a winner if managed right.

Someone else agreed, but said Clear Channel wasn't doing enough with WWVA.

And I am looking at their schedule and you know what- I AGREE!

For those that don't know it, WWVA is a 50,000 watt AM.

But just look at this-

12 Mid-1:00 am Paid Religious Programming - This is one of the great AM stations of the country and they are selling out to preachers who aren't exactly Father Lenguin here. This is the sort of thing you'd expect at a small 1000 watt AM- but not a 50KW blowtorch.

1:00am-5:00am Truckin' Bozo - Okay- not a bad thing for the format and the area- but then again- if I'm driving a truck overnight I can always get this program on WLW.

5:00am-6:00am Wall Street Journal This Morning -Probably not so bad for a news and info station.

6:00am-9:00am Quinn and Rose - I'm told this is the ultimate cost-cutting move by Clear Channel- that Quinn and Rose are popular in Pittsburgh but in Wheeling people want local.

9:00am-11:35am Glenn Beck- I can take or leave this one.

11:35am-11:50am Paul Harvey
11:50am-11:55am WSJ / ABN Farm Report
11:55am-11:58am Ned Jarett's World of Racing
11:58am-12:00 Noon Consumer Reports

104.7 does the same thing with Harvey and company- I wonder why they don't just let Beck go.

12:00 Noon-3:00pm Rush Limbaugh - Good pickup for a news talk- but likely comes with Quinn, Beck, and who knows what other baggage.

3:00pm-7:00pm The Drive Home with Steve Novotney- Novotney's not a bad host but isn't George Kellas, either, who succeeds with a much worse AM signal and frequency.

7pm Monday Cruisin' with Captain Frank
7pm Tuesday Nascar Live with Eli Gold
7pm Wednesday Cyberman
7pm Thursday Nail Talk with Gary Sharp
7pm Friday Buckeye Sportsman

This is the sort of thing that kills WBGG- you never know what's coming on after Savran. Two nights a week this slot is sports, another night it's apparently internet talk, I have no idea what or who Captain Frank is, bottom line is 7-8 on weekdays on WWVA are a disaster.

8:00pm-12:00 Mid Paid Religous Programming - But no bigger disaster than this.

Hello? Nailers games? Pirates games? Michael Savage or a real, local, honest to goodness host?

What we have is a station with about four different formats- religious-sports-news/talk- and classic country.

WWVA should be the Ohio Valley's blowtorch- the way KDKA is in Pittsburgh and WTAM is in Cleveland. It literally can give that entire area a real identity to the rest of the east coast.

Instead, it is getting heat from a station with a 1600 AM frequency (check the ratings).

They've got to tidy up this format. If it was me, I'd go with a classic country format which really isn't heard anywhere else in the area and I think would pull in tons of listeners from miles around- give you an identity with the Jamboree, and pick up sports play-by-play like the Nailers and high schools to further the local identity.

The bottom line is if Clear Channel is operating this station like they are the Capitol Theatre, no wonder BOTH entities aren't doing as well as they should.
 
You think KDKA is still important? God help us all if that rotting corpse of a station identifies Pittsburgh.



> WWVA should be the Ohio Valley's blowtorch- the way KDKA is
> in Pittsburgh and WTAM is in Cleveland. It literally can
> give that entire area a real identity to the rest of the
> east coast.
>
 
Gotta agree with you on that. KDKA is a successful radio station, doing a great job of serving the senior citizens of the entire tri-state region. But it's hardly what many Pittsburghers would want to consider as the defining identity of Pittsburgh.

As for WWVA being the "identity" of West Virginia and the rest of the Ohio Valley, if it were to do that by switching to classic country, I'm afraid that all that would be accomplished is to reinforce the negative sterotype of West Virginians as rednecks and hillbillies. Not that there's anything wrong with being a redneck, a hillbilly, or a classic country music fan.

> You think KDKA is still important? God help us all if that
> rotting corpse of a station identifies Pittsburgh.
>
>
>
> > WWVA should be the Ohio Valley's blowtorch- the way KDKA
> is
> > in Pittsburgh and WTAM is in Cleveland. It literally can
> > give that entire area a real identity to the rest of the
> > east coast.
> >
>
 
Disagree

Classic country would be far less "redneck" than having paid preachers on for five hours a day like they do now.

And what format would you recommend for Wheeling, WV? Ghetto rap?

Let's look at this further. Johnny Cash's life is now about as mainstream as you can get. Before he passed there were many contemporary, mainstream artists recording with him and, of course, Walk the Line is currently a popular feature film.

I was more looking at a format that is not heard in the region, that would be popular throughout the region, and has a good signal. You'd attract listeners all over three states if you had a classic country format. It would promote The Jamboree, which is as precious to WWVA as the Opry is to WSM.

I, personally, would listen to it in Pittsburgh- and tons would in the hills and valleys from Wheeling to Pittsburgh.

But even if you don't like my idea- the main point I want to get out is this-

Four formats on one station doesn't work- and the fact they are trying to do that with such a potentially great station shows you how horribly run WWVA is.

<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Pratte4Life on 12/26/05 02:39 PM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: Disagree

> Classic country would be far less "redneck" than having paid
> preachers on for five hours a day like they do now.

Point taken. Perhaps it's my understanding of what "classic" country is. If by "classic" country you mean the country equivalent of what is called "classic" rock, featuring artists like Johnny Cash, Waylon Jennings, etc., then I was mistaken. On the other hand, if "classic" country is the equivlent of rock "oldies", featuring artists like Gene Autry, Slim Whitman and Boxcar Willie, then I think it's a toss-up over whether paid preachers would be more "redneck" or not.

> And what format would you recommend for Wheeling, WV? Ghetto
> rap?

I don't know, I haven't given the matter any consideration. Generally speaking, I tend to favor using AM stations for spoken word formats and FM stations for music formats, based only in the issue of audio clarity. But I don't think that needs to be a hard and fast rule.

If a music format is appropriate, then I might favor a hybrid country format that plays country similar to the way WDVE programs rock. It could be a blend of classic and contemporary country music, plus my personal pet programming idea, including new recordings by "classic" artists in the mix. I keep reading about how classic country artists like Dolly Parton or George Strait have the same problem getting their new recordings played on the radio that classic rock artists like Bruce Springsteen or Paul McCartney do. I don't pay much attention to what stations I can't receive here in Pittsburgh play, so I don't know if any other stations have had success with that idea or not.

> Let's look at this further. Johnny Cash's life is now about
> as mainstream as you can get. Before he passed there were
> many contemporary, mainstream artists recording with him
> and, of course, Walk the Line is currently a popular feature
> film.
>
> I was more looking at a format that is not heard in the
> region, that would be popular throughout the region, and has
> a good signal. You'd attract listeners all over three states
> if you had a classic country format. It would promote The
> Jamboree, which is as precious to WWVA as the Opry is to
> WSM.

Again, that's a point I cannot dispute. Though playing new songs by "classic" country artists might also help promote live performances by those artists at least as much as playing only their old stuff.

> I, personally, would listen to it in Pittsburgh- and tons
> would in the hills and valleys from Wheeling to Pittsburgh.
>
> But even if you don't like my idea- the main point I want to
> get out is this-
>
> Four formats on one station doesn't work- and the fact they
> are trying to do that with such a potentially great station
> shows you how horribly run WWVA is.

You'll get no argument from me on that point.

But I still have a problem with accepting that a music format would be all that successful on the AM band in this day and age. I don't know how many listeners today would ever switch their radio to the AM band in order to hear music. Here in Pitsburgh, only WJAS manages a high level of success with music on the AM band, and they're programming for senior citizens who grew up on AM quality music.
 
Re: Disagree

Classic Country would deliver a 55+ audience, which is not attractive to advertisers..and an AM signal makes it even worse. Dropping whatever successful talk they have for classic country would be financial suicide. Paid preachers (remembers folks they were once on up and down the dial, sometimes coming in from blowtorches accross the Mexican border) are paying more than the advertising revenue from any talk show WWVA could put in the 8-12mindight slot. <P ID="signature">______________
Classic Christmas Jingle

http://www.thebig8.net/merry_christmas_from_cklw.mp3</P>
 
Re: Disagree

> Classic Country would deliver a 55+ audience, which is not
> attractive to advertisers..and an AM signal makes it even
> worse. Dropping whatever successful talk they have for
> classic country would be financial suicide. Paid preachers
> (remembers folks they were once on up and down the dial,
> sometimes coming in from blowtorches accross the Mexican
> border) are paying more than the advertising revenue from
> any talk show WWVA could put in the 8-12mindight slot.

I don't think anyone would dispute the financials of comparing brokered programming with programming that attracts a demographic that advertisers don't want. But please note from the launch post of this thread, WWVA only carries brokered preachers from 8:00 PM to 1:00 AM. The rest of their broadcast weekday is syndicated programming and a local talk host in PM drive.

So, the issue isn't a question of brokered religious programming versus playing country music, the discussion is about running a station with four separate formats versus a station that picks one format and sticks to it.

Like the launch post says, in various day parts they run religious, sports, news/talk, and classic country. Personally, I think any one of those four run consistently would work better than kludging all four of them together. So, I am in agreement with Pratte4Life's original premise. He and I only disagree slightly over minor details.
 
Re: Disagree

> > Classic Country would deliver a 55+ audience, which is not
>
> > attractive to advertisers..and an AM signal makes it even
> > worse. Dropping whatever successful talk they have for
> > classic country would be financial suicide. Paid preachers
>
> > (remembers folks they were once on up and down the dial,
> > sometimes coming in from blowtorches accross the Mexican
> > border) are paying more than the advertising revenue from
> > any talk show WWVA could put in the 8-12mindight slot.
>
> I don't think anyone would dispute the financials of
> comparing brokered programming with programming that
> attracts a demographic that advertisers don't want. But
> please note from the launch post of this thread, WWVA only
> carries brokered preachers from 8:00 PM to 1:00 AM. The rest
> of their broadcast weekday is syndicated programming and a
> local talk host in PM drive.
>
> So, the issue isn't a question of brokered religious
> programming versus playing country music, the discussion is
> about running a station with four separate formats versus a
> station that picks one format and sticks to it.
>
> Like the launch post says, in various day parts they run
> religious, sports, news/talk, and classic country.
> Personally, I think any one of those four run consistently
> would work better than kludging all four of them together.
> So, I am in agreement with Pratte4Life's original premise.
> He and I only disagree slightly over minor details.
>
I disagree. WSM plays classic country. I think if WWVA played the music from the mountains like it used to, I'd listen if iy carried to Florida. I think classic country is a great idea. It has a mystique and this country sure could use some real Americana, not the manufactured crap we get now.
 
Re: Disagree

> > I don't think anyone would dispute the financials of
> > comparing brokered programming with programming that
> > attracts a demographic that advertisers don't want. But
> > please note from the launch post of this thread, WWVA only
>
> > carries brokered preachers from 8:00 PM to 1:00 AM. The
> rest
> > of their broadcast weekday is syndicated programming and a
>
> > local talk host in PM drive.
> >
> > So, the issue isn't a question of brokered religious
> > programming versus playing country music, the discussion
> is
> > about running a station with four separate formats versus
> a
> > station that picks one format and sticks to it.
> >
> > Like the launch post says, in various day parts they run
> > religious, sports, news/talk, and classic country.
> > Personally, I think any one of those four run consistently
>
> > would work better than kludging all four of them together.
>
> > So, I am in agreement with Pratte4Life's original premise.
>
> > He and I only disagree slightly over minor details.
> >
> I disagree. WSM plays classic country. I think if WWVA
> played the music from the mountains like it used to, I'd
> listen if iy carried to Florida. I think classic country is
> a great idea. It has a mystique and this country sure could
> use some real Americana, not the manufactured crap we get
> now.

Could you explain what you are disagreeing with? Are you disagreeing that WWVA should pick one format and stick to it? Or are you disagreeing about which type of country music they should broadcast?

You mention "music from the mountains" and you mention "classic country" as if they are two terms for the same thing. Are you saying that bluegrass is "classic" country, not the Nashville-style country music from the 60's, 70's & 80's?
 
Re: Disagree

> > > I don't think anyone would dispute the financials of
> > > comparing brokered programming with programming that
> > > attracts a demographic that advertisers don't want. But
> > > please note from the launch post of this thread, WWVA
> only
> >
> > > carries brokered preachers from 8:00 PM to 1:00 AM. The
> > rest
> > > of their broadcast weekday is syndicated programming and
> a
> >
> > > local talk host in PM drive.
> > >
> > > So, the issue isn't a question of brokered religious
> > > programming versus playing country music, the discussion
>
> > is
> > > about running a station with four separate formats
> versus
> > a
> > > station that picks one format and sticks to it.
> > >
> > > Like the launch post says, in various day parts they run
>
> > > religious, sports, news/talk, and classic country.
> > > Personally, I think any one of those four run
> consistently
> >
> > > would work better than kludging all four of them
> together.
> >
> > > So, I am in agreement with Pratte4Life's original
> premise.
> >
> > > He and I only disagree slightly over minor details.
> > >
> > I disagree. WSM plays classic country. I think if WWVA
> > played the music from the mountains like it used to, I'd
> > listen if iy carried to Florida. I think classic country
> is
> > a great idea. It has a mystique and this country sure
> could
> > use some real Americana, not the manufactured crap we get
> > now.
>
> Could you explain what you are disagreeing with? Are you
> disagreeing that WWVA should pick one format and stick to
> it? Or are you disagreeing about which type of country music
> they should broadcast?
>
> You mention "music from the mountains" and you mention
> "classic country" as if they are two terms for the same
> thing. Are you saying that bluegrass is "classic" country,
> not the Nashville-style country music from the 60's, 70's &
80's?

I think WWVA should become a 24/7 country station. They could play bluegrass,vintage country like Roy Acuff, and their own music like Mac Wiseman. As far as differentiating bluegras from classic country, it does overlap in songs like Wabash Cannonball and in the music of Emmy Lou,Vassar Clements, and Grandpa Jones. Today's country music is based on young people with the exceptions of maybe Alan Jackson and George Strait. Performers like Buck Owens and Merle Haggard are hard to place, but they are classic in my mind.

I realize that in the 50's, stations like KDKA could program comedy like Rege Cordic, then go to standards with Art Pallan (and Bob Tracy) and end the day Rockin with Clark Race before heading into a night of talk with Ed and Wendy King. WWSW played MOR until 8PM when it went classical. This worked once, but not anymore. I can remember WLAC in Nashville being AC during the day,blues with John Richbourg at night until country took over at about 3AM. I can remember many multi format stations. I just think WWVA has a heritage not to be squandered. WWVA is a museum piece of radio. Remember when 1530 in Cincy had a dj named Wayne Rainey who played bluegrass at night ? I don't believe Alan Freed started on a Top 40 station, but was tacked on at night. WMCA and WQAM had two hours of talk, even in their heydays as Good Guy and Tiger Radio. Imagine that today.

So there! -------Happy Holidays
>
 
Re: Disagree

Good post, Oldies Gal. And I agree with you. There is a very strong heritage at WWVA and the right spin could make it as relevant (or nearly so) to the region as WSM. There are *many* 20-somethings that are rediscovering roots/folk/classic country music and who actually do have the Op'ry on their radar screen (and, yes, AM radio).

As noted in my post above, I sometimes think this path is not taken by today's owners/managers because it is *harder*...not because it is unworkable. Admittedly, harder (e.g., requiring more thought) is sometimes more expensive, but there's something to be said also for bringing value to your community of license and, perhaps, your company's longer-term future.
 
> 8:00pm-12:00 Mid Paid Religous Programming - But no bigger
> disaster than this.

A disaster yes, but not as bad as 1530 WCKY having done it forever as well. Fact is, Wheeling is pretty small potatoes compared to CC's 50kW blowtorches in the area. WWVA's big signal covers a large area at night that is of appeal to the pay-for-pray operators. WCKY, KDWN, et al, use their monster night sticks to charge high rates for airtime.

It would make sense to perhaps give Premiere's Phil Hendrie at 10-midnight or 10-1 gig, but again, as much as I'd like to see a quality operation at WWVA, the market size just isn't that important in the grand scheme of things.

Besides, who's listening to the radio at 8pm anyway? A bunch of kids who've never heard of the AM band.
 
KWKH. Shreveport

Heritage 50 kw blowtorch. Market size not so different from Wheeling. Switched back to Classic Country. Owned by CC. Not exactly a roaring success.
 
> Besides, who's listening to the radio at 8pm anyway? A bunch
> of kids who've never heard of the AM band.

You make a good point. It isn't like folks are clustered around the radio at home in the evening anymore. Once the commuters get out of their cars at the end of PM drive time, there aren't as many folks in their cars listening to the radio anymore.

If someone can come up with a format that is so compelling that the audience will turn their televisions off and their radios on in their home in the evening, that would be amazing.

The only time I turn the radio if I'm at home at night is if the Steelers are on Monday Night Football and I use WDVE as the soundtrack. The only time I listen to the radio in the evening is if I'm going somewhere in my car.
 
Re: Disagree

> I think WWVA should become a 24/7 country station. They
> could play bluegrass,vintage country like Roy Acuff, and
> their own music like Mac Wiseman. As far as differentiating
> bluegras from classic country, it does overlap in songs like
> Wabash Cannonball and in the music of Emmy Lou,Vassar
> Clements, and Grandpa Jones. Today's country music is based
> on young people with the exceptions of maybe Alan Jackson
> and George Strait. Performers like Buck Owens and Merle
> Haggard are hard to place, but they are classic in my mind.
>

Interesting as it would be, who would you sell it to? Particularly in Wheeling? I mean, Nashville's one thing, it's a big, fast-growing market. The Wheeling market can support WOVK and WOMP and that's about it.

Sad as it is to say, and public service considerations aside, CC probably had the right idea trying to move that signal to a larger market. The problem was that by going as far away as Cleveland it was too obvous what they were trying to do. If they had paid 1150 in New Kensington to go dark, they probably could have moved the site to somewhere around Washington, not changed the COL, and had a viable Pittsburgh AM.

Otherwise it could probably make more money as brokered religion 24/7. Not advocating that, just trying to be objective.<P ID="signature">______________
"With God as my witness, I could have sworn turkeys could fly."</P>
 
Getting back to WWVA

Gee, I go away for the weekend and miss a subject I can sink my teeth into.

Allow me a few thoughts. If any are repetitious, please forgive me.

(1) WWVA-AM 1170's 50,000-watt blowtorch doesn't even reach all of West Virginia, at least not daytime. I have tried for it heading south on US 19, even on higher elevations, and it was hard to hear at best.

(2) WWVA in many respects is Clear Channel Pittsburgh Lite now. It carries the Steelers and many of the Steeler-related features also heard on WBGG-AM 970.

By the way, it also airs West Virginia University football, again for what it's worth.

(3) WWVA is Clear Channel's choice for Fox News Radio coverage of Pittsburgh. ABC worked too well for WPGB to drop it when other CC news-talk stations jettisoned it for Fox.

(4) I have to wonder what the local programmer in Wheeling thinks when a guy CC dropped there (for all intents and purposes) comes back as what apparently is Jim Quinn's top sub. (If Marty Minto isn't, that is.)

(5) I also have little problem with a station selling religion at night, although I would do more between programs than to remind listeners when writing their favorite preacher, "please tell them you're listening to WWVA, Wheeling, West Virginia."

(By the way, do they still do the coal mine report three shifts a day? I'm serious about this question.)

(6) As for persuading AM 1150 in New Kensington to sign off, it would be no great loss to New Kensington but Loran Mann's church in inner-city Pittsburgh would lose a Gospel voice, WGBN, with a pretty good signal even at night in such communities as Homestead.

(7) Finally, re "the voice of Pittsburgh," in a city that lives on past glory (it was once a top-10 market, of course), KDKA does the Norma Desmond role (I hope I have that name right) as well as any station might.

Happy New Year to one and all ...
 
Re: KWKH. Shreveport

WSM came within a hairs breadth of dropping Classic Country for sports a couple of years ago. Aside from radio and music geeks, you'd have one unsaleable format on WWVA. Programming wiuse, it would be better if WWVA dropped the evening fire and brimstone and added a talk show (even Savage, but with a large signal in a small, economically-depressed market, it's probably the most profitable thing to do.<P ID="signature">______________
Classic Christmas Jingle

http://www.thebig8.net/merry_christmas_from_cklw.mp3</P>
 
Profitable

> WSM came within a hairs breadth of dropping Classic Country
> for sports a couple of years ago. Aside from radio and music
> geeks, you'd have one unsaleable format on WWVA. Programming
> wiuse, it would be better if WWVA dropped the evening fire
> and brimstone and added a talk show (even Savage, but with a
> large signal in a small, economically-depressed market, it's
> probably the most profitable thing to do.

Assuming that they charge the preachers what they'd get for selling spots, What difference does it make to the station's bottom line if they carry a syndicated program and sell spots, or simply sell entire hours for the same amount of money? $X is $X whether you bill it in lots of little chunks or with one big invoice.

Now, if they're undercharging the preachers, that's another issue.
 
Re: Profitable

They're just not going to be able to sell spots in a syndicated program at that time of day and make what they're making selling the half-hour blocks. Evening is dead, and overnight is almost imposible except for a couple of specialty shows, one of which WWVA already carries. (The other alternative, being C2C, relies heavily on direct sales of books, etc.). 1530 in Cincy is an example, there was no money to be made at night with either oldies or liberal talk, so Brother Stair and his ilk remain and pay good money so they can be heard in a large chunk of the country.<P ID="signature">______________
Classic Christmas Jingle

http://www.thebig8.net/merry_christmas_from_cklw.mp3</P>
 
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