Okay, but you're nitpicking what I said, and ignoring the gist of it.
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WXNY IDing past TOH
- Thread starter 101.9 La Kalle
- Start date
No, I am correcting an inaccurate statement which might lead readers to think, "oh, talk stations really must have higher ratings because they only measure music".
Who would think that???
You said I ignored your "main point" (which I thought was irrelevant today anyway) so here is a response:
The fact is that the ID is obsolete, an anachronism. There are many ways... such as what is permitted for translators.. to "legally" ID a station without distracting or confusing listeners.
Except for heritage stations that have always used call letters (think KFI and WGN and WOR) stations don't want to use call letters for identification any more that people want to be known by their Social Security numbers.
Stations want to use names, just as has been done since the 30's in most of the rest of the world. Call letters are for regulation, names are an identity.
In any case, nearly 100% of all stations are in full or near compliance. They give the ID as required at a "natural break in programming". On stations I have programmed, that break is somewhere in a stopset where ads are run. It is not between songs, ever.
Again, the rule is obsolete.
60 years ago, I owned a bunch of stations in another country. We were not allowed to use call letters on the air for identification... we were told they were "administrative file references" and we had to have a unique station name and also had to apply to get the name changed! Way back then, in a relatively small nation, they knew call letters were an encumbrance.
Years later, maybe around 2000, in Argentina I was licensing some US music scheduling software and they wanted our call letters for the contract. We did not know them. Nobody, of the nearly 150 people on the AM and FM staff, knew them. We called the government licensing entity. They did not know them, but said they could look them up and to call back "in a few days". We finally got them and filled in our contract with a piece of information that was not useful to anyone.
If that were true, it would actually be the reverse, talk stations would have lower ratings because the tones could only be inserted when music was covering them, not talk or silence. But let's go with your correction, it doesn't have to be music. What's the response to the rest of what I posited about translator and HD non-verbal ID'ing?
My point is that the FCC should allow digital IDs for all services and eliminate confusing and distracting verbal IDs altogether.
Let the mighty DXers' lobby loose in the halls of Congress to buy enough votes to stop that madness! 😁
#1: The State of [name your state] should eliminate speed limits also. They're anachronisms. All they do is slow us down when we're trying to get somewhere. And as long as it isn't *my* kid who's crossing the street, why should the safety of kids impede my right of thoroughfare? *Your* kid is expendable, especially if it saves me a few minutes.
#2: I'm not a DX'er, except in the most informal way, i.e., "I'm bored, let's see if the car radio can pull in any distant stations clearly enough to ID them.
#3: I've written a few times now that the Legal ID regs, if no longer necessary, should be changed or eliminated. That does not alter the fact that they're currently on the books, and the observance of them involves de minimus of effort, so why risk a fine, a censure or the loss of a license trying to skirt them? So far, nobody has given a good answer to that question. Lots of excuses, no real answer.
#4: My question, in post #59, is also awaiting an actual answer.
Speed limits control accidents and injury. The rest of the world has shown that giving call letters is of no help and has not been for about a half a century.
The biggest AM DX club has less than 1000 members in all North America.
Putting them in what we call our natural breaks is not skirting the rules. Putting useless-to-the-listener data in between songs throttles flow and the blend and flavor of a station. In a stopset, the fit in better.
I believe it is answered.
Since there's obviously some confusion as to what I asked in Post #59, here it is again, verbatim:
In the case of translators, IIRC, the legal ID can be "broadcast" using frequency-shift keying. (Correct me if I'm misremembering.) You may not be able to hear it, but it's there. Much like the hidden tones that the Nielsen encoder inserts into the
So reiterating, is it legal to do a non-audible "legal ID" of an HD stream - i.e. an HD1, HD2, HD3, etc., via text display? Does displaying "KXXX-HD1 Southwest Left Floogleville" on listeners' HD display once an hour qualify as a legal ID the way it would if the station announced "KXXX FM and HD1, Southwest Left Floogleville" verbally? Or does it not, and why not?
Someone who knows can answer this. I can't find anything specific on an "HD Radio" + "Identification" search of the rules but it may well be there.
The legal ID rule for translators includes either FSK’ing or AM’ing the carrier. The rule is at Federal Register :: Request Access ...specifically section 74.1283(c)(2).
The legal ID rule for HD channels is, alas, somewhat vague, but I can’t find any language in it that permits non-audible ID’s. The rule is at Federal Register :: Request Access …section 73.1201.
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And that would seem to not permit a text display via HD text technology.
I’ve been saying that for a while that the NYC iHeart stations do not mention their HD1 in the station ID
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I'm sorry for being so late to this thread. I just discovered it. I think digital radio IDs are misinterpreted.
An Identification Announcement must be in audio on an analog (or hybrid) radio channel, as analog radio does not have a way to visually identify the broadcast, besides an RDS subcarrier which is not part of the broadcast, but just an optional enhancement to the main program broadcast service [1] [2].
An announcement for a television station may be visually or aurally [3].
A digital-only radio channel (i.e., HD-2, HD-3) is not bound to aural announcements. Nowhere does it state that the announcement has to be aural [3]. Keep in mind that a TV station can do a visual-only ID and that is considered an "announcement". Therefore a text-only visual ID should be acceptable, and would be considered an announcement. Text is part of the HDRadio specification.
With that in mind, there is a gap in the FCC rules that appears to allow an analog FM translator that rebroadcasts an HD-2 stream to have the translator ID broadcast via text on the HD-2, and possibly not transmit at all on an analog translator [4].
If anyone can offer a precedent or citation that an HD-only ID must be done aurally, I would appreciate the link so I can use it as a learning moment.
[1] Sec. 73.295: Federal Register :: Request Access
[2] Sec.73.293: Federal Register :: Request Access
[3] Sec.73.1201: Federal Register :: Request Access
[4] Sec.74.1283: Federal Register :: Request Access
I'll be interested in seeing this, too.
I do think that analog audio can be used to embed a coded ID, just like the PPM ID code. I wonder if the PPM code could be used as is, since it give a unique ID to every station. But there is no PPM in most markets and rural areas.
I think radio IDs exists mainly to keep people from confusing radio stations, with so many station names being reused in this huge country.
Take the name Mix 107.7. Do you mean the AC station in Dayton, OH? Or the Urban station in San Juan, PR? Other than the call letters WMMX and WQBS-FM, you wouldn't really know.
Take the name Mix 107.7. Do you mean the AC station in Dayton, OH? Or the Urban station in San Juan, PR? Other than the call letters WMMX and WQBS-FM, you wouldn't really know.
That is not why they exist. When call letters were first given out, there was only a handful of stations and they all used call letter IDs.
And the FCC does not care if a station in Detroit has the same name as on in Des Moines. They don't regulate programming in that area.
Call letters are of use to advertisers who buy multiple markets. But that could be accomplished just as well with the Nielsen unique station codes or the FCC file number. Calls are superfluous today and a holdover from the twenties... the nineteen twenties.
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