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WXUR
- Thread starter NXEA
- Start date
It's the music they are playing. It just going for a audience that's tiny to begin with. The area is screaming for a classic hits (oldies) station. It would have to be local and not V. T.'d. They were oldies before but it was a satellite feed on a weak signal-didn't work. With the age demographics (majority of population over 40)in the Mohawk Valley you are guaranteed at least an 8 share 12+. That's all that matters since there really isn't much of an 18 -34 crowd anyway, and what there is Roser has on his stations. If done right, it could give Big Frog a run for the $$.
There's a huge difference between Classic Rock & Classic Hits. It's the difference between Top 40 and AOR.
I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem like they do a ton of outside promotion. This is a market where many people find a station they like, and then they rip the knob off. Heritage stations do very well here, and whenever new competitors come in, they are very slow to attract any attention. In many cases, impatient owners wind up pulling the plug prematurely... had they given their new format a little more time to gain steam, they could have gone somewhere with it.
In this case, like I said, I haven't seen a ton of outside promotion for the station. Even though WXUR itself isn't new, the larger signal and the latest format are still relatively new. If you don't already know it's there, how will you know it's there? People rarely find new stations by scanning up and down the dial -- with digital tuners and preset buttons, people don't just "accidentally" discover one station while trying to tune in another anymore.
And in terms of being impatient, I think the management made a bad move in sending Bill Keeler packing. He was probably the only thing getting people into that station, and he did a ton of his own promotion. Even if Keeler only attracted his loyal fans to his own daypart and nobody else's, management could have worked with him on finding ways to "recycle" listeners back to other dayparts. That's something they can't do with a syndicated show like Bob & Tom.
In this case, like I said, I haven't seen a ton of outside promotion for the station. Even though WXUR itself isn't new, the larger signal and the latest format are still relatively new. If you don't already know it's there, how will you know it's there? People rarely find new stations by scanning up and down the dial -- with digital tuners and preset buttons, people don't just "accidentally" discover one station while trying to tune in another anymore.
And in terms of being impatient, I think the management made a bad move in sending Bill Keeler packing. He was probably the only thing getting people into that station, and he did a ton of his own promotion. Even if Keeler only attracted his loyal fans to his own daypart and nobody else's, management could have worked with him on finding ways to "recycle" listeners back to other dayparts. That's something they can't do with a syndicated show like Bob & Tom.
What AL said ^ Plus a shaky economy in a depressed (but not depressing) area of New York state. And it's the 'short player' in a market full of clusters that can rise to any challenge.W2JUV_AL said:Utica......too many stations, too few listeners
I would agree that there isn't enough room for a WXUR to play somewhat similar music as WOUR and WODZ. WXUR has now tried several different formats, hired different people and have promised great things since increasing their power, and they still rank about as low as they did before any power increase.
This latest stunt of trying to go after WOUR isn't working either and probably will not work. The ownership got duped again and was sold a bad bill of goods by rehiring a few former WOUR people who talked them into believing they could re-create the old WOUR and beat out the current WOUR. The only reason this is being done is because the former WOUR people that WXUR hired, probably have axes to grind with Galaxy ownership.
Bringing back Bob and Tom was touted to be a coup for WXUR. My thought from the beginning was that BOB and TOM were popular on WOUR years ago, but their show doesn't garner the same large audience as back then. If you listen carefully to their show, there is no substance to it. Just a group of people fake laughing for no reason on an on-going basis.
In the latest Arbitron, Bob & Tom did not do any better than Keeler had done. The numbers for Keelers show and Bob & Tom were within 1/10th of a point. And overall, WXUR is almost still at the bottom of the barrel.
WXUR needs polished, new blood. Not an business manager person handling music and or/programming, and not a former programmer who still has 20-year old ideas. I suppose the ratings might not matter to them if they can continue to convince advertisers they are doing better than they really are.
This latest stunt of trying to go after WOUR isn't working either and probably will not work. The ownership got duped again and was sold a bad bill of goods by rehiring a few former WOUR people who talked them into believing they could re-create the old WOUR and beat out the current WOUR. The only reason this is being done is because the former WOUR people that WXUR hired, probably have axes to grind with Galaxy ownership.
Bringing back Bob and Tom was touted to be a coup for WXUR. My thought from the beginning was that BOB and TOM were popular on WOUR years ago, but their show doesn't garner the same large audience as back then. If you listen carefully to their show, there is no substance to it. Just a group of people fake laughing for no reason on an on-going basis.
In the latest Arbitron, Bob & Tom did not do any better than Keeler had done. The numbers for Keelers show and Bob & Tom were within 1/10th of a point. And overall, WXUR is almost still at the bottom of the barrel.
WXUR needs polished, new blood. Not an business manager person handling music and or/programming, and not a former programmer who still has 20-year old ideas. I suppose the ratings might not matter to them if they can continue to convince advertisers they are doing better than they really are.
If I am correct...In recent years...WXUR has gone from Oldies to Active Rock and now to Classic Rock based Triple A?
You can put the best programming available on this signal, but if there isn't a good sales department that believes in the product to generate revenue, it's still going to fail. Has it reached the point where people ask the question, "What's the point?" It appears this station has had little success competing with the cluster squatters like Levine and Town Square, so why not try sports-talk during the week with local sports from 6 pm to midnight, and classic hits on weekends, the way NJ-101 does it.
Agree with you 100% on the sports/talk. I will say that WXUR is trying like heck to be competitive. In male demos, they were down from when Keeler was there in the mornings, and down the rest of the day too, even with another music change, and bringing back some former WOUR people. The only male demo they showed any increase were men 18-24, which seems like a fluke, considering the music they are playing, and men 49 to 54. Every other male demo, they are down. Some have said at least they maintained.
Listen....I hope they do well. You do not want to see any person or station fail. But what they are programming, in my opinion isn't correct, and they are only doing it because many that work there, might have issues, deep within inside themselves against Galaxy owners. They have tried several formats including the current format, and nothing has grown, or, very little growth. I do think that some of the music is good, but I guess we can all debate the music mix, and especially, the on-air talent.
It will be interesting to see what happens when the next book is out in January. At some point, the excuses have to stop, Or, maybe, they can turn the corner. Low dial position, and many still thinking this station at 92.7 is still that little valley station is hard to break.
Listen....I hope they do well. You do not want to see any person or station fail. But what they are programming, in my opinion isn't correct, and they are only doing it because many that work there, might have issues, deep within inside themselves against Galaxy owners. They have tried several formats including the current format, and nothing has grown, or, very little growth. I do think that some of the music is good, but I guess we can all debate the music mix, and especially, the on-air talent.
It will be interesting to see what happens when the next book is out in January. At some point, the excuses have to stop, Or, maybe, they can turn the corner. Low dial position, and many still thinking this station at 92.7 is still that little valley station is hard to break.
Sports is a viable format, especially as proven in major markets by CBS, particularly their FM properties in Detroit, Dallas, Boston and Pittsburgh. Personally, I like the idea, but let's be frank. It's an expensive format. And the economy in Utica-Rome, which isn't major market, may not sustain a full time FM sports talker.
From my admittedly distant perspective, any attempt at sports talk requires a pronounced local perspective. And I concur, the local angle is especially important in late afternoon drive and early evening, from 4 pm to 9 pm, Monday through Friday. High school football and basketball could generate listenership and revenue if it's properly, professionally presented and promoted. It has to sound like The Big Game of the Week or Monday Night Football For High School, which requires good writing and promo production, sound bites, interviews and lots of leg work with up close and personal interviews. This takes time and manpower.
Can you pay a guy 22-5 a year and expect him to work 60 hours a week... and expect him to stay in U-R for a few years? Having programmed news-talk and sports, I know that every 23 year old guy wants to be the next anchor on Sports Center or work for WFAN. And who can blame them? Everybody has a dream.
Programming? You need at least two very good local sports guys (or women) dedicated to high school and regional sports. You need two solid producers who support the on air sports guys and can generate show production and set-up and produce live sports coverage, capable of contributing in a support role on the air as well. Hmmmm. Already we have four employees that need to be paid a livable salary with benefits. The meter's running and we haven't even touched on morning drive, commercial production, sales reps, traffic and secretarial.
Sales? How much revenue is this station going to generate before it gets some traction? Your sales people are on the street selling promises. This wouldn't be a radio station that gets sold "by the ratings." It would be sold "by response and loyalty," which means your sale people have to love the format, believe in it and know how to sell it. Wow. Selling is a challenge when your station has a 10 share and is top three Persons 25-54... can you imaging selling a station that has no ratings? You need people that "believe," drink the cool aid by the gallon and can sell ice to Eskimos. Ain't easy.
The technical requirements to do local footbal and basketball require a fulltime engineer who can plan events and maintain equipment. Comrex and Hot Line 'magic boxes' make doing sports a little easier, but you still need phone lines and/or Marti support. Cell phone interface is a possibility, as long as you can get a cell shot and hold the line. Another challenge. (Perhaps not as challenging as trying getting a cell shot out of Ralph Wilson Stadium on game day, when 30 thousand tailgaters are calling their friends AND trying to send pics and video, but a challenge nonetheless.)
So it comes down to money, as it usually does, and the challenge of selling the format on the street and making it work on the air. It's a noble idea, especially for those of us who "consult" on message boards, but when you're signing the checks, it a double dose of hard reality.
I don't see it happening in Utica-Rome not with a start-up. Not on a full time basis. Maybe you first test the water, play Alternative from 5 am to 7 pm and do sports talk 7 to midnight, with a "game of the week" and see what kind of response it gets. I'd like to hear it done, but I don't see too many owners lining up to pay for it.
From my admittedly distant perspective, any attempt at sports talk requires a pronounced local perspective. And I concur, the local angle is especially important in late afternoon drive and early evening, from 4 pm to 9 pm, Monday through Friday. High school football and basketball could generate listenership and revenue if it's properly, professionally presented and promoted. It has to sound like The Big Game of the Week or Monday Night Football For High School, which requires good writing and promo production, sound bites, interviews and lots of leg work with up close and personal interviews. This takes time and manpower.
Can you pay a guy 22-5 a year and expect him to work 60 hours a week... and expect him to stay in U-R for a few years? Having programmed news-talk and sports, I know that every 23 year old guy wants to be the next anchor on Sports Center or work for WFAN. And who can blame them? Everybody has a dream.
Programming? You need at least two very good local sports guys (or women) dedicated to high school and regional sports. You need two solid producers who support the on air sports guys and can generate show production and set-up and produce live sports coverage, capable of contributing in a support role on the air as well. Hmmmm. Already we have four employees that need to be paid a livable salary with benefits. The meter's running and we haven't even touched on morning drive, commercial production, sales reps, traffic and secretarial.
Sales? How much revenue is this station going to generate before it gets some traction? Your sales people are on the street selling promises. This wouldn't be a radio station that gets sold "by the ratings." It would be sold "by response and loyalty," which means your sale people have to love the format, believe in it and know how to sell it. Wow. Selling is a challenge when your station has a 10 share and is top three Persons 25-54... can you imaging selling a station that has no ratings? You need people that "believe," drink the cool aid by the gallon and can sell ice to Eskimos. Ain't easy.
The technical requirements to do local footbal and basketball require a fulltime engineer who can plan events and maintain equipment. Comrex and Hot Line 'magic boxes' make doing sports a little easier, but you still need phone lines and/or Marti support. Cell phone interface is a possibility, as long as you can get a cell shot and hold the line. Another challenge. (Perhaps not as challenging as trying getting a cell shot out of Ralph Wilson Stadium on game day, when 30 thousand tailgaters are calling their friends AND trying to send pics and video, but a challenge nonetheless.)
So it comes down to money, as it usually does, and the challenge of selling the format on the street and making it work on the air. It's a noble idea, especially for those of us who "consult" on message boards, but when you're signing the checks, it a double dose of hard reality.
I don't see it happening in Utica-Rome not with a start-up. Not on a full time basis. Maybe you first test the water, play Alternative from 5 am to 7 pm and do sports talk 7 to midnight, with a "game of the week" and see what kind of response it gets. I'd like to hear it done, but I don't see too many owners lining up to pay for it.
Sports are definitely off the table for a couple reasons. First their AM tried sports and had ESPN and it did nothing. Even with Imus on in the morning. The second is, Galaxy has all the sports locked up. They have all the S. U. games, Yankees and local football and basketball. They, also, there is their local sports show on in the afternoon and it is GOOD. Those guys live and breath sports. So if you were going to go sports then just sell or lease WXUR to Levine. Let him make some money with it.
I know I sound like a broken record but I say give the people what they want: classic hits, oldies what ever you want to call it. The average age in the market is well over 40. No it won't be the darling of the agencies but how much agency business are they going to get with any format? They'd just have to hire salespeople who are willing to sell door to door, actually walk into businesses.
It will show up 12+ if they do it right with local personalities and some promotion -get out there! The station in Rome is just an after thought. They are not even trying. Besides their signal is not strong in Herkimer & Little Falls -a major part of the market. WXUR now covers the entire market.
Another thought: lease or sell it to Roser. Let him put WUTQ on it.
I know I sound like a broken record but I say give the people what they want: classic hits, oldies what ever you want to call it. The average age in the market is well over 40. No it won't be the darling of the agencies but how much agency business are they going to get with any format? They'd just have to hire salespeople who are willing to sell door to door, actually walk into businesses.
It will show up 12+ if they do it right with local personalities and some promotion -get out there! The station in Rome is just an after thought. They are not even trying. Besides their signal is not strong in Herkimer & Little Falls -a major part of the market. WXUR now covers the entire market.
Another thought: lease or sell it to Roser. Let him put WUTQ on it.
Hello again...I agree with the realjm again. And to Jim, I have all the respect in the world for your experience, insight and opinions, however, in this instance, I must respectfully differ with you a bit.
Local sports in Utica/Rome is already hot and a money maker. I know, because I am part of it in many ways. With all of the local sports and Utica College sports moving to Galaxy's ESPN beginning this September, coupled with the local sports talk show from 3 till 5-PM with Fred Miller and Mean Gene, sports is alive and well and always has been popular in this area.
As far as the production, every game, high school and college does not sound like a high school or small college broadcast. The games have an ESPN sound. Quality, mics on refs, on the glass at hockey games, replays in between periods. I guess that can be verified as the NYS Broadcasters awarded us with the Best Sports Broadcast at their award ceremony this past June. We are very proud of that for our efforts.
With ESPN programming, the Giants, the Jets, Yankees, SU, and other pro sports, along with high school and Utica College, ESPN is the talk of the town and a huge staff isn't needed. The small group of us, even though not young chicken's, live, eat and breath this stuff. One other advantage is that Fred Miller is so talented and knowledgeable as a sports talk show host. And, his show style is so different. Lot's of humor, fun, and of course sports info. He also has a local sports newspaper that comes out monthly, called My Hometown Sports and a web site My Hometown Sports dot net. The advantage is we have the sports talk show, the paper, the website and the radio broadcasts all feeding off of one another.
Businesses love the station and what has been done over the past 5-years, so I know it will survive. Not saying WXUR would also survive doing the same thing at the same time, but being an FM, and with no ESPN already in the market, I believe they would be more successful than what they are now doing.
Just my thoughts.
Thanks
Local sports in Utica/Rome is already hot and a money maker. I know, because I am part of it in many ways. With all of the local sports and Utica College sports moving to Galaxy's ESPN beginning this September, coupled with the local sports talk show from 3 till 5-PM with Fred Miller and Mean Gene, sports is alive and well and always has been popular in this area.
As far as the production, every game, high school and college does not sound like a high school or small college broadcast. The games have an ESPN sound. Quality, mics on refs, on the glass at hockey games, replays in between periods. I guess that can be verified as the NYS Broadcasters awarded us with the Best Sports Broadcast at their award ceremony this past June. We are very proud of that for our efforts.
With ESPN programming, the Giants, the Jets, Yankees, SU, and other pro sports, along with high school and Utica College, ESPN is the talk of the town and a huge staff isn't needed. The small group of us, even though not young chicken's, live, eat and breath this stuff. One other advantage is that Fred Miller is so talented and knowledgeable as a sports talk show host. And, his show style is so different. Lot's of humor, fun, and of course sports info. He also has a local sports newspaper that comes out monthly, called My Hometown Sports and a web site My Hometown Sports dot net. The advantage is we have the sports talk show, the paper, the website and the radio broadcasts all feeding off of one another.
Businesses love the station and what has been done over the past 5-years, so I know it will survive. Not saying WXUR would also survive doing the same thing at the same time, but being an FM, and with no ESPN already in the market, I believe they would be more successful than what they are now doing.
Just my thoughts.
Thanks
Good points RealJM and superb synopsis, Dave. What you've described sounds similar to my ideas about what it would take to make sports a successful format in the Mohawk Valley. It's been a while since I watched Brian Conacher's and Ted McCaskill's Mohawk Valley Comets play the Binghamton Dusters, Johnstown Jets, Beauce Jaros and the Erie Blades in that wonderful auditorium, but to this day I have fond memories of Utica. That you're doing the format and it is a success, substantiates in some way my programming theories. You also convincingly dispel the concerns I expressed about sports generating sufficient revenue. Good thing I used the disclaimer "from my admittedly distant perspective" in my original post. As is usually the case on these boards, whether it's Buffalo, Syracuse-Utica-Rome, Philadelphia or Chicago, the men and women in the market know a lot more about what works and what doesn't. Congratulations on a job well done and continued success.
Hello Jim and thank-you for the kind comments. Yes, we are proud of what we have been able to do, and yes, even though things have worked out very well, there is no doubt that with a few more people, and me not having to juggle things with my regular job, that we could do even more. I will say that since we bloomed onto the sports map a few years ago, the newspaper and TV people have had to up their game a bit because people follow what we do first. No egos here, but a nice feeling.
Because of our success, "The Score" 1260 in Syracuse is making an effort to at least broadcast some high school football games in Syracuse. This would be the first time, at least that I can remember, that any station has done any high school events in Syracuse. We are fortunate that Utica/Rome has been a huge local sports area. Not too many places that get 2,000 to 4,000 people for some football games, 1,000 people for high school basketball, and almost a sellout at the Utica Auditorium for every Utica College Hockey game.
Thanks again for your positive remarks, as we continue to work hard and improve each day.
Because of our success, "The Score" 1260 in Syracuse is making an effort to at least broadcast some high school football games in Syracuse. This would be the first time, at least that I can remember, that any station has done any high school events in Syracuse. We are fortunate that Utica/Rome has been a huge local sports area. Not too many places that get 2,000 to 4,000 people for some football games, 1,000 people for high school basketball, and almost a sellout at the Utica Auditorium for every Utica College Hockey game.
Thanks again for your positive remarks, as we continue to work hard and improve each day.
Only Fred Miller could make American Legion baseball sound interesting. He makes it sound like he's covering the Yankees.
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