WXXY

[umtrr-author]

I guess I missed the memo...

The Houghton College station, which as we know shares a lot of time with WXXI-AM, is now being ID'd as WXXY. Did that happen over the weekend (while I was in the home city of WSM)?

 

[Mark Giardina]

One possible reason for the call letter change would be to associate Houghton College with WXXI, yet still allow the college station to keep its own identity. Understand what I'm trying to say?

Instead of Houghton College it would have been more advantageous to have WRUR's call letters changed to WXXY because of the coverage area WRUR has in metro Rochester versus the less populated area Houghton serves in Allegany County.

I'm aware that WRUR is still licensed to the University of Rochester, but in all intense and purposes that station is an appendage of WXXI when factoring in the studios were moved from the college campus to WXXI's building on State Street.

 

[Bob1370]

It happened officially yesterday. The former Houghton station is now a wholly owned part of the WXXI Public Broadcasting Council (Houghton students have their own separate station now), hence the callsign change.

Won't be happening with WRUR, since that's still a partnership between WXXI and the U of R, and no one has any plans to change either that partnership or the station callsign. (By the way, WRUR still maintains studios and originates a significant portion of its programming from the U of R campus.)

 

[The Voice of Reason]

The former Houghton station is now a wholly owned part of the WXXI Public Broadcasting Council (Houghton students have their own separate station now), hence the callsign change.

And how much did this venture cost, may I ask? It is very unlikely that Houghton College would have spent time, money, and have the knowledge how to file the necessary paperwork with the FCC for a separate college station.

I too wonder why WXXI would put so much effort in securing a radio operation in a county (Allegany) where the population is sparse compared to say Ontario or Livingston Counties? Besides wouldn't Allegany also be considered part of the Buffalo market because of its location?

Won't be happening with WRUR, since that's still a partnership between WXXI and the U of R, and no one has any plans to change either that partnership or the station callsign. (By the way, WRUR still maintains studios and originates a significant portion of its programming from the U of R campus.)

I heard that studios were constructed for WRUR at 280 State Street years ago. So you are telling us that WRUR does not broadcast from your facility at all?

In conclusion I just find it puzzling that an operation that constantly informs the general public, especially during pledge drives, how strapped for cash they are can afford to build new studios for the UofR radio station, take over the Houghton College station, then assist that college in obtaining their own radio station.

 

[JustPastBuffalo]

Allegany county, 12+ population approximately 44 thousand, is part of the Buffalo-Niagara Falls market TSA and generates about 165 in-tab diaries, subject to change per rating period. Genesee county generates about 130 in-tabs, subject to change per rating period, which surprised me, given that Genesee county's population is about 52 thousand. The data you find when you dig into an Arbitron report.

 

[TheBigA]

In conclusion I just find it puzzling that an operation that constantly informs the general public, especially during pledge drives, how strapped for cash they are can afford to build new studios for the UofR radio station, take over the Houghton College station, then assist that college in obtaining their own radio station.

First of all, I have no knowledge of this particular situation.

However, I spent many years in public radio, and can tell you that it's not unusual for a public station, strapped for cash, to spend money it doesn't have in order to do things it perceives to be part of its mission. That's what a non-profit is all about. Not making a profit often means not having any reserves. The station I ran bought a building at a time when it barely had the money to cover the mortgage. They got permission to move their antenna and transmitter, then did a fundraiser to pay for it. We had several lawyers on our board who assisted with the applications pro bono.

I see that both WNYC in New York and WGBH in Boston are buying commercial properties without actually having the cash on hand. That's just what you do in public broadcasting. Every day is an adventure in debt. If you only did what you could afford, you wouldn't do anything.

 

[Bob1370]

"heard that studios were constructed for WRUR at 280 State Street years ago. So you are telling us that WRUR does not broadcast from your facility at all?"

No, just that a majority of WRUR's own original programming continues to originate from the River Campus studios. Three hours each of Morning Edition and All Things Considered are, of course, simulcast with WXXI-AM and that will come from WXXI's own master control, and WRUR will sometimes produce its non-simulcast programming using other WXXI facilities which most of the time are used for WXXI's own productions. WRUR has no dedicated studios exclusive to it at the WXXI building, just gets use of WXXI's facilities (used primarily for WXXI programming) from time to time as needed.

As far as all the studio work, and the Houghton station, that was all made possible by generosity of private donors.

 

[theradiokid]

What is the Houghton student station? I can’t find that info anywhere.

--The Radio Kid
(Oswego, NY.)
My email: [email protected].

 

[aaronread]

IIRC, all roads run through WXXI these days for WRUR. The programming from the U of R studios goes to WXXI's studios first, and then the STL to Pinnacle Hill goes from there. It makes a LOT of sense to do it that way. First, as I understand it, the STL path was essentially blocked by buildings when trying to do it from U of R's campus. Second, this way ensures that some student, who decides he/she doesn't care what the LMA says, can't just take WRUR over during the WXXI-controlled times. FWIW, I've heard enough stories to believe this was a valid concern. Dunno if it still is.

And how much did this venture cost, may I ask? It is very unlikely that Houghton College would have spent time, money, and have the knowledge how to file the necessary paperwork with the FCC for a separate college station.

Probably not, but if WXXI has the knowledge and software in-house...and I'm 99% sure that they do...to do the FCC contour plotting and applications, then the cost is zero. Well, "zero" beyond the time of the staff working on it...which could be as little as 12-24 hours. I've done several of these, they don't take all THAT long to apply for.

I too wonder why WXXI would put so much effort in securing a radio operation in a county (Allegany) where the population is sparse compared to say Ontario or Livingston Counties? Besides wouldn't Allegany also be considered part of the Buffalo market because of its location?

Because WJSL was all but handed to WXXI on a silver platter. The cost was next to nothing, so even if WJSL doesn't earn WXXI very much, it doesn't need to in order to still come out ahead. I'm sure WXXI would LOVE to get their hands on an Ontario- or Livingston-county Class B1 FM but I seriously doubt anyone would simply hand one over.

What is the Houghton student station? I can’t find that info anywhere.

My memory on this is fuzzy, so if I'm wrong someone please correct me. The deal that WXXI struck to get WJSL was that they'd help Houghton College apply for a new station for the students. It'd be much smaller than WJSL's mammoth signal...like 300 or 400 watts, IIRC...and was on 88.1FM. Since WXXI already had the tools and talent in-house to prepare the app, it cost WXXI virtually nothing to do so. According to the CDBS they DID apply for it, back in 2000 (BNPED-20000105AAG). But it got caught in the freeze at the time.

Fast-forward to 2007, the FCC says any NCE applications caught in that freeze must re-apply to keep their applications "alive" through the Grand Mighty NCE Filing Window of October 2007. By this time, the web has largely replaced radio in the minds of most students, and Houghton probably decided that given how expensive it is to operate even a bare-bones station...of all student activities, the radio station tends to be the most expensive BY FAR and often has the worst ROI for dollars spent vs. students involved. Whatever the reason, the app wasn't re-applied for and it died. So unless there's some web-only station (which I couldn't find, either) Houghton does not have a radio station for students anymore. (shrugs) I suppose that's kind of a shame in the abstract but I imagine it's really not a big deal on the Houghton campus, otherwise they would've kept the application alive.

I am a little surprised WXXI didn't re-apply to keep the application alive just in case they wanted to do something with it. But I guess that speaks to how few listeners (and how few DONATING listeners) there are down in Houghton. Enough to justify WJSL that covers a goodly amount of the county...but not enough for a small FM just in Houghton proper.

Again, this is based on fuzzy memory, a little digging in the FCC's CDBS, and uninformed speculation. Don't treat it as gospel unless someone who knows what the heck they're talking about confirms it. ;-)

 

[The Voice of Reason]

I spent many years in public radio, and can tell you that it's not unusual for a public station, strapped for cash, to spend money it doesn't have in order to do things it perceives to be part of its mission. That's what a non-profit is all about. Not making a profit often means not having any reserves.

This sure sounds like the way the federal and state government works; spending money it doesn't have. Eventually someone gets a bill for services, or in this case a station, rendered.

I work in the private sector with numerous commercial and non-profit broadcasting operations, and I can attest to the fact that most of the stations I do business with have a cash reserve on hand.

As for Houghton, that station might have been handed to WXXI on a "silver platter", but again what good does it do for WXXI if the station is located in an area with a sparse population? I've seen numerous Arbitron books and the Houghton station doesn't register a blip when it comes to an audience.

This is just my opinion but from a business point of view one would think that WXXI would have tried to work out some sort of agreement to purchase WRUR instead of the time and money spent on WXXY . I do know that years there was an attempt to do just that, but UofR students raised such a ruckus that the previous management backed down.

 

[SirRoxalot]

As for Houghton, that station might have been handed to WXXI on a "silver platter", but again what good does it do for WXXI if the station is located in an area with a sparse population? I've seen numerous Arbitron books and the Houghton station doesn't register a blip when it comes to an audience.

This is just my opinion but from a business point of view one would think that WXXI would have tried to work out some sort of agreement to purchase WRUR instead of the time and money spent on WXXY . I do know that years there was an attempt to do just that, but UofR students raised such a ruckus that the previous management backed down.

Arbitron means nothing to WXXI. In fact, Arbitron means nothing in Houghton. What's important is "Does the Houghton station bring in more donor dollars than it costs to run?"

WXXY and WRUR are really unrelated, since they don't serve the same market. It looks to me that Houghton cut a deal with WXXI in order to keep NPR and other regional programming on the air in their market, without having to bear the expense of owning, adminstering, and operating the station. WXXI already has the people in place to do that job, which reduces their costs of operating WXXY to a minimum. Seems like a win for the listeners, and likely a break-even for WXXI. I don't understand your objection.

I'm sure that WBFO would have done the same deal in a heartbeat if it had been offered to them. And, who knows what power and coverage upgrades maybe available now or in the future for the Houghton location - especially if the FCC reduces protections again interference on the FM band. I'm guessing that somebody's already looking at that engineering study.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

I am not objecting to anything but instead raised what I believe is a legitimate point.

Don't you find it a bit odd that WXXI would invest time, money, and effort into a station that really isn't going to add that many additional listeners?

It's true that Arbitron doesn't mean a thing to public radio, but listeners do; and wouldn't it be a smart idea to invest in a station that can contribute to one's listener base?

As for your comment that WXXI and WRUR doesn't serve the same market, I'm a bit confused. Both stations serve the metro Rochester area. Why do you think AM-1370 wanted WRUR to carry Morning Edition, All Things Considered, and other NPR programs that the AM signal couldn't reach after sunset?

 

[aaronread]

I work in the private sector with numerous commercial and non-profit broadcasting operations, and I can attest to the fact that most of the stations I do business with have a cash reserve on hand.

Well, read up on the financial news and you'll see there's quite a few private sector businesses that were doing deals waaaaaaaay beyond what meager cash reserves they had. It's kind of the reason the economy's in the crapper, after all. (shrugs) One could extrapolate and say that's why pubradio doing the same thing is a bad thing, but there is such a thing as "smart debt". That's why the Public Radio Capital corp was created; they work with stations to create a debt plan that has good expectations of being paid off, and they provide the up-front money needed to buy a license under terms that don't rake the purchasing station over the coals. It's a good arrangement all around.

This is just my opinion but from a business point of view one would think that WXXI would have tried to work out some sort of agreement to purchase WRUR instead of the time and money spent on WXXY . I do know that years there was an attempt to do just that, but UofR students raised such a ruckus that the previous management backed down.

Not to be completely rude, but...well, DUH. Houghton College is not the U of R. If U of R offered to give WRUR to WXXI, they'd gladly take it. But the situations are totally different precisely because WRUR is inherently more valuable than WJSL. I think in WJSL's case it was "give it to WXXI or take it dark", there wasn't a lot of other options there. WRUR, OTOH, is worth millions and also worth a lot in keeping the students happy at U of R. Right now WXXI gets access to the airtimes that matter for peanuts compared to what it'd cost to buy the license outright. How is that NOT a good deal?

Don't you find it a bit odd that WXXI would invest time, money, and effort into a station that really isn't going to add that many additional listeners?

Again, it doesn't matter if it only adds a "few listeners" as long as there's enough DONATING listeners to justify the ROI. I'm assuming that there are, otherwise WXXI wouldn't bother with it. Since the acquisition costs were almost literally nothing, and the operational costs are pretty low (does WXXY/WJSL rent tower space, or do they own it?) it could take as few as 50 listeners donating $25/quarter and you'd still probably see ROI. That's a mighty low bar to jump over.

You keep insisting that WXXI has invested "time, money and effort" without any evidence that they've done so. I have no evidence that they haven't, but knowing what I know, I have good reason to believe they actually HAVEN'T invested much time, probably not all that much effort, and almost certainly very little money (comparatively).

WJSL is and always was a low-risk/high-reward move for WXXI. While that concept didn't pan out for the Red Sox this year (thanks for sucking in the AL and then being wunderkinds in the NL, Smoltz and Penny) we have every reason to believe it works for WXXI, else they wouldn't be doing it.

 

[SirRoxalot]

As for your comment that WXXI and WRUR doesn't serve the same market, I'm a bit confused. Both stations serve the metro Rochester area. Why do you think AM-1370 wanted WRUR to carry Morning Edition, All Things Considered, and other NPR programs that the AM signal couldn't reach after sunset?

I said that WXXY and WRUR don't serve the same market. Not WXXI and WRUR. WXXY simply extends the reach of WXXI and WRUR in Central NY. The investment is minimal, mostly utilizing the talents of people already on staff. If the contributions from WXXY's service area don't match the cost, I suspect that other arrangements will be made.

It seems that you'd prefer that WXXY go to other ownership. Maybe it's time for you to start putting together a group and raising money for a purchase.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

I said that WXXY and WRUR don't serve the same market. Not WXXI and WRUR. WXXY simply extends the reach of WXXI and WRUR in Central NY.

Sorry I thought you wrote WXXI. As for your second remark, WXXY is part of the Southern Tier and doesn't have the signal to serve Central New York State. Check where Allegany County is on a map.

It seems that you'd prefer that WXXY go to other ownership. Maybe it's time for you to start putting together a group and raising money for a purchase.

I have no interest in purchasing any radio operation and neither do my business associates. The point I've tried to make is just that I found it "odd" that a Rochester public station would go through all of this fuss to purchase a station located in a mostly rural area of the state.

On a personal note, I could care less if WXXI bought every small market radio station from Dunkirk to Utica. All I did was pose a question.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Not to be completely rude, but...well, DUH. Houghton College is not the U of R. If U of R offered to give WRUR to WXXI, they'd gladly take it. But the situations are totally different precisely because WRUR is inherently more valuable than WJSL. I think in WJSL's case it was "give it to WXXI or take it dark", there wasn't a lot of other options there. WRUR, OTOH, is worth millions and also worth a lot in keeping the students happy at U of R. Right now WXXI gets access to the airtimes that matter for peanuts compared to what it'd cost to buy the license outright. How is that NOT a good deal?

FYI- WRUR was about to lose its license several years ago when WXXI bailed the station out by making it conform to FCC broadcasting standards. The station (WXXI) poured a lot of money into WRUR in the way of equipment. Thousands of dollars to be exact.

I can understand UofR students wanting to keep WRUR IF the UofR had a school of communications like Syracuse. But it doesn't.

WRUR at one time could have used a grandfather clause to increase its power double-fold, but the lack of interest on the part of the students and adminstration allowed that clause to lapse.

Now I'm being told how dedicated the students and faculty at the UofR are to WRUR and they want to keep it independent from WXXI.

From a business standpoint WXXI should have either taken over complete control of WRUR after spending so much money to bring that station up to broadcast standards, or they should have never bothered in the first place if it was never WXXI's intentions to take over WRUR. And from what my sources have told me, it was WXXI's intention to take over WRUR, but they ran into opposition from students and some faculty. So they came up with the current format of combining NPR and student programming.

Ask the folks at WGMC how at one time WXXI was gunning for that signal if you don't believe me.

 

[audio4tv]

The point I've tried to make is just that I found it "odd" that a Rochester public station would go through all of this fuss to purchase a station located in a mostly rural area of the state.
On a personal note, I could care less if WXXI bought every small market radio station from Dunkirk to Utica. All I did was pose a question.

Just for clarity, WXXI did not purchase any station in a rural area. The station, which WXXI has owned for 10 years now, was given to WXXI, according to my research. Part of the problem was staffing the station during the summer and other times. WXXI did help the college apply for a smaller station for its students. However, as already stated, the freeze along with waning interest, had the college ask for the application to be dismissed.

I am not sure where everyone is getting their information, but a lot of it is erroneous, when it comes to some of the posts here.

 

[JakeLongwell]

It is kind of sad to see what has happened to the Houghton frequency. Years ago, I had the chance to tour the station. Back then, it was an interesting mix of a simulcast with WMHR in Syracuse by day, and christian pop/rock/metal at night.

At that time, Houghton had a pretty serious broadcasting program as I recall. I guess this is no longer the case. Too bad, really. I'm sure they could get an LPFM license when/if there is a new filing window in the next few years. But, I guess it wouldn't be worth it.

Regardless of what some may think of WXXI's acquisition of the station, I am glad that the college chose to give it to a broadcaster that would use it to provide cultural programming to an area that was previously deprived of said programming. It would have been very easy for the school to sell the station, say, to WMHR, or one of the many national religious networks that are now sucking up every available non-commercial frequency in rural america.

One more note about the attempt at a low power student station at the college. I seem to recall there was also an application for a 360 watt station on 91.1 in Houghton. This application was denied by the FCC. Not sure why, perhaps it was too close to WETD Alfred (then on 90.9).

 

[aaronread]

FYI- WRUR was about to lose its license several years ago when WXXI bailed the station out by making it conform to FCC broadcasting standards. The station (WXXI) poured a lot of money into WRUR in the way of equipment. Thousands of dollars to be exact.

Actually by now I think we're into the tens of thousands of dollars. WXXI has spend considerable time and money putting in a new STL, and moving WRUR to Pinnacle Hill. I don't know if a new transmitter was part of that deal...maybe. If not, a new one is likely inevitable as I'm sure WXXI would like WRUR to have HD Radio capability.

Just to be clear though...even though WXXI has spent considerable money on WRUR, they're also EARNING considerable money off WRUR, too. The value of the underwriting on their has gone through the roof (I know, I've bought spots on it! ) and I've heard that WRUR has taken off in both ratings and in donations during pledge drives. I don't have any hard numbers, but I'm sure this is an investment that is paying off handsomely for WXXI. Like I said, they get most of what they'd get from full ownership but at a fraction of the total cost of an outright purchase. That's a deal I'd gladly make!

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Even though WXXI has spent considerable money on WRUR, they're also EARNING considerable money off WRUR, too. The value of the underwriting on their has gone through the roof (I know, I've bought spots on it! ) and I've heard that WRUR has taken off in both ratings and in donations during pledge drives. I don't have any hard numbers, but I'm sure this is an investment that is paying off handsomely for WXXI. Like I said, they get most of what they'd get from full ownership but at a fraction of the total cost of an outright purchase. That's a deal I'd gladly make!

This "deal" reminds me of someone leasing a car rather than buying one outright. You end up spending money each month on car payments but when the lease is over with the car isn't yours. This is the same case with WXXI and WRUR.

What happens, for instance, if UofR officials someday decides they want full control of WRUR; meaning they no longer want to be affiliated with WXXI and instead want the station to be controlled by students?

The result is that WXXI is not only out tens of thousands of dollars they've put into that operation, but also losing an FM outlet in the metro Rochester area to enhance their AM programming in areas where the signal is lost when the nighttime pattern kicks in.