WYSL-night time power

[eartotheradio]

With all due respects to Mr. Savage and company for the great work done with WYSL 1040 Avon-Rochester over the last few years, are there any plans on upgrading the power during the night time hours?? Yes, the upgrade to 20,000 watts during the day time is wonderful and I can get the signal quite well here in the NE side of Roch. but as soon as the sun sets, its a whole different ballgame. I like the new addition of Jim Bohanan in the early morning hours, but its almost impossible to get it in clearly. Its kinda like listening to only a 1/2 news-talk station. Thanks...

 

[Savage]

WYSL is currently working with engineering consultants re: a nighttime power increase and have been doing so for some months. I don't have any more specifics available yet. We're also mulling an increase in daytime power to 50kw.

 

[Mark Giardina]

Re: WYSL-day time power

I can tell you that WYSL's daytime power is pretty darn strong. After work Saturday I drove to Corning and heard the station all the way down in that Steuben County city. Sunday morning, around 7:30, the signal was very strong.

Other Rochester stations I've worked for, with the exception of WHAM, normally faded away after my car passed Wayland heading south.

 

[Bob1370]

Question to Bob Savage...would you be looking mostly toward shooting a lot more field strength straight north into Monroe County, blasting it with a blowtorch signal? Or are you trying to get some incremental improvement everywhere?

I'd bet that providing you're not colliding heavily with adjacent-channel CHUM (AM) on 1050, you could probably shoot some major wattage over the entire core of the Rochester metro. One other thing; if you do that, and also bump your daytime signal to 50,000 watts with a northward major lobe, does that then make you strong enough in the center of the county that you could legally call Rochester your city of license--or might have to?

 

[Savage]

Ummm....HAVE TO change our COL? Since the WYSL Tx site is south of Avon and the major lobe shoots northward towards Rochester, any increase in day or night power would only increase signal intensity in the present COL since both Avon and Rochester are in the same direction. I'm not aware of any mandatory FCC rule requiring you to change City of License, unless - presumably - you would no longer cover 80% of the COL with 5.0 mv/m. And in that case the AM Branch would take a dim view of the proposed power increase since it would result in a DECREASE in primary service. I'd think you'd have to propose first audio service to a new COL that would justify Avon's loss thereof. The fine folks of Livingston County might have a thing or two to say about that.

No further comment to make at this time about WYSL's DA-N. Still a work in progress. As far as 50kw DA-D goes, we'd have to crunch the numbers to see if an additional $400K or so for two additional towers (which WOULD fit on the present WYSL site, so no additional land purchase would be required) plus ground system, transmission and sample lines, and a new DA-D phasor is financially defensible. Also would have to carefully consider another doubling of WYSL's utility bill. Weigh this against the approximate 10% improvement in field over Rochester to see if it's worthwhile.

After all, there's no point on the Lake Ontario shore that doesn't already receive 5.0 mv/m from WYSL in the daytime with our 20,000 watt pattern. On the other hand...there's undeniable magic to that phrase, "50,000 watts..."

 

[Ed Trefzger]

Even if there's some magic to "50,000 watts," I'll take your far better sounding 20KW over WHAM's thin-sounding and HD noise encroached 50KW any day. Mr. Savage explains why his signal sounds so much better quite eloquently here: http://wysl1040.com/?pg=nohd

 

[Savage]

Thank you Ed (and others) who have commented on the superior sound of WYSL's 10 kHz bandwidth. Remember that many posters here and elsewhere continue to insist, in their logical contortions trying to boost good-as-dead-already HD-AM, that "nobody's receivers are capable of detecting anything wider than 5 or 6 kHz anyway." Uh-huh. Guess that explains why everyone hears the difference between WHAM's 50kw at 6 kHz and WYSL's 20kw at 10 kHz.

I ran across an unscoped reel aircheck the other day of WELM, recorded in October 1971. I've got to post some audio excerpts on the WYSL site for you guys to listen to - it's a jaw-dropper. You'll be stunned at the quality of a signal, recorded off-air with no equalization or other audio tricks - of an entirely tube-type transmitter and audio chain, with no digital artifacts, no phase shifts from multiband processing, forgiving tube-type limiting with few odd-order added harmonics, etc. I'd put it up against any FM station today, and certainly far more real and pleasing than any HD nonsense. I remember seeing tube-type, analog WELM audio proofs showing the station routinely passed 13 kHz. Not to sound too much like a curmudgeon but - such is "progress in AM broadcast engineering" over the past 35 years.

 

[Bob1370]

Bob, you raise another important issue--is HD technology really a boon or a bane on the medium wave band? It makes sense up on FM where we can cram a batch of CD-quality stereo audio signals on our 200 kHz wide patch of real estate (we're sending three out right now, including simulcasts of our analog AM and FM signals plus a second separately programmed news/talk channel). But on AM it seems like more trouble than it's worth. I can remember back in 1977, WKBW's old MW50 would pump out a 30 to 15,000 hZ audio signal, no sweat, matching the audio spectrum of any FM in town. WBEN's pair of Rockwell-Collins 5 kW rigs, hooked up to first-generation Optimod processors, would do at least as well. The FCC won't even let you pass audio that good any more, making you roll it off at 10,000 hZ.

I suppose we'll bow to the inevitable and fit our MW5 and its upcoming mate with IBOC HD exciters (we already know the antenna system and phasor will pass the necessary bandwidth), but I wonder how much benefit we'll get...

 

[Savage]

Roberto Thirteen Seventy, you ask the question, but I suspect you already know the answer about HD-AM. And if you liked the WKBW MW50 you should have heard the Westinghouse HG-50, arguably the finest AM transmitter ever made. The HG-50 series heard on signals like WHN, WINS, WOWO, WHAM, KB, WDGY et al were always loud, clean and rich - and the Tx was preposterously overbuilt (but a power hog like all high-level mod plate-mod rigs.) Probably some people, notably the 4 or 5 HD-AM boosters out there, are tired of hearing my rants about how stupid IBOC is going to junk up the band and lead to station-against-station conflict and further AM audience erosion. On the other hand I think that the marketplace will ultimately relegate this junk-engineering to the radio industry trashpile where it belongs. We would all be well-advised to insist on a digital standard for AM that offers real (as opposed to illusory promises in the form of Ibiquity sales pitches and FCC lobbying) benefits at a reasonable price and doesn't destroy existing service. Is my position clear about HD-AM?

 

[The Voice of Reason]

I get a chuckle when it comes to the numerous discussions about HD radio. Instead of being concerned about the declining number of listeners to radio, certain individuals seem obsessed how a station sounds. What’s wrong with this picture? On the AM dial we have more stations depending on syndicated programming, while FM has turned into a jock-less jukebox. Personality radio (after 9 am drive-time) is quickly becoming history as station owners cut personnel to boost either their bottom line or shares of stock. HD, AM stereo, FM stereo won’t mean squat in a few years if more people opt to listen to I-Pods or CD’s. :

 

[JohnW]

Mr. Savage - please don't abandon your curmudgeonism. The industry needs people like you.

 

[TVJunkie12]

if you liked the WKBW MW50 you should have heard the Westinghouse HG-50, arguably the finest AM transmitter ever made.

Actually, KB's Continental 317C was a very sweet sounding transmitter in it's day (even if was less stable after it sat for about 9 months waiting for a new plate transformer-thank you, Price Communications). There was a noticeable difference in the 'warmth' of the sound when switching from the MW50 to the Continental-especially listing on the JBL 4311 studio monitors. One thing that must be said about the MW50 though, it was a pretty reliable transmitter for an old tube rig. Reliable enough that it was kept as the alternate main and the Continental was shipped off when the DX50 came in 1995.

 

[Element9]

...when it comes to the numerous discussions about HD radio. Instead of being concerned about the declining number of listeners to radio, certain individuals seem obsessed how a station sounds. What’s wrong with this picture? On the AM dial we have more stations depending on syndicated programming, while FM has turned into a jock-less jukebox... HD, AM stereo, FM stereo won’t mean squat in a few years if more people opt to listen to I-Pods or CD’s.

The outright drek that passes for programming on small market AM radio stations is amazing to the point of being a comical parody: There are any number of Colon-Blow and Super-Vitamin-B-Bomber shows, various "Ask-the-Dentist" shows and local newscasts that are unlistenable because the don't appeal to anybody under the age of 60.

This isn't intended to paint all local broadcasters with the same brush, but for every Bob Savage, there are dozens of low rent local broadcasters whose stations sound dismal. It would be ideal if there were more local programs, but since there aren't, why so many delayed broadcasts of satellite delivered programming that would better serve the listeners and public if the programs aired in real time?

So much of the programming on the air in small markets sounds like flotsam that washes up on shore and finds it way on the air. Most of the stations that sound this poorly usually don't have program directors or even consultants, but instead are run by committee, the sales department or a GM who has little if any programming smarts.

As I said, it's sometimes good for a laugh. For those few who may be listening.

-9-

 

[SirRoxalot]

Thinking Small

So much of the programming on the air in small markets sounds like flotsam that washes up on shore and finds it way on the air. Most of the stations that sound this poorly usually don't have program directors or even consultants, but instead are run by committee, the sales department or a GM who has little if any programming smarts.

Nine, you might be describing WSPQ in Springville, which seems to have gone down hill precipitously since their recent sale.

 

[Element9]

I haven't listened much, Rox. 1kW DA-1 on 1330 isn't solid where I live. I know they're doing some form of Classic Hits. Sounds like a wannabee trying to fill a void left by WHTT. Dumb. They should be live and local, doing NASCAR, Tradio and high school sports with a vengance... And playing Country hits from "yesterday and today." It's SPRINGVILLE, people.

Well... at least they're better than WJJL. How's that for "damning with faint praise?"

-9-

 

[cee]

They should be live and local, doing NASCAR, Tradio and high school sports with a vengance... And playing Country hits from "yesterday and today." It's SPRINGVILLE, people.

Well... at least they're better than WJJL. How's that for "damning with faint praise?"

I concur wholeheartedly. It's not only Springville, it's Amplitude Modulation in Springville - who wants to listen to "Freebird" on AM in mono.

WJJL should also be doing NASCAR, Tradio and high school sports with a vengeance (and of course they should be doing this in Niagara Falls).

One nice thing about AM's sharp decline is that almost anyone can afford to buy an AM radio station(and then quickly run it into the ground).

 

[therealjm12]

Last night about 10:00 I was listening to 1040 WYSL in my car. I like to listen to ABC news. I was on 490 coming out of downtown Rochester. I turned up 390 to Greece. WYSL came in fine. About as strong as any other local AM. There was some noise from another 1040. Other than that a good clear, strong signal. I figure I must have been about 25 -30 miles from their transmitter. I think that is pretty good coverage at night.

 

[Radknowski]

...who wants to listen to "Freebird" on AM in mono.

I thought this was an exageration to make a point, but apparently it's right on the money. The other day I heard "White Room" by Cream for about 30 seconds before I pushed the button. White-freakin'-Room. On AM. In 2007. It was so bad it was almost funny... but not. Years ago there was a great AM country station in a medium market in eastern Pennsylvania called 13-Q. No, not THAT 13-Q in Pittsburgh.

Hello!??? WSPQ?!!! You're halfway there! It rhymes (like Lee Ann) with clue. "Today's country FROM the country: "13-Q"

 

[SirRoxalot]

13-Q

Hey, be careful guys. If 'SPQ goes country, they could cut in on the WXRL country broadcasts from Earl's.

I can see it now - Pies at 10 paces in Earl's parking lot as the Ramblin' Family Band takes on the upstarts from 13-Q...

 

[jefflaurence]

I remember when that station was WMMJ...my mom took me in there and I got to watch the announcer AND a board op!!! A board op in Lancaster, NY!!! Ramblin Lou was still on WWOL.

But that was magic..and I almost right then and there thought about it being time to start smoking. Because everyone there smoked. The disc jockey, the board op, and even the secretary all smoked. Smoking meant you could work in radio. Didn't though..

One of the reasons that WELM sounded so great was the transmitter on site with the audio..no telco lines to muck it up, and no other garbage in the line..console to processor to transmitter...clean and tasty.

I really would like to hear that aircheck Bob..

BTW the new imaging sounds awesome..(the production, not that lame voice guy)