WYSL Not Showing Up In The Book ???

[Mark_Giardina]

Hey! I resemble that remark ;D

Though, really...Mr. Savage has a point. We're just assuming it's not directed at either you or me.

While both here and on OMW, I certainly make my feelings known about stations that couldn't get 2+2 right if you spotted them the 4, I hope that I never come across as having an axe to grind.

The thing I dislike most on boards like these is when folks rail on about stations because the station's format doesn't suit their particular tastes.

These boards are filled with top-40 fanatics who think every FM station should flip to the format, and do it the way THEY like. And there are any number of oldies radio enthusiasts who dislike various forms of the talk format, and have their own feelings on how the oldies format should even be presented. And in both cases, that personal feeling clouds their radio judgement.

I personally don't really listen to any religious radio format, but I don't go whining about the fact that, for example, one of the larger religious radio format operators has control of Cleveland's second largest AM signal. I don't listen, but the radio spectrum as a whole doesn't exist to serve my own needs.

I don't know Mr. Savage well (I've only met him once), but he appears from this corner to be a savvy radio operator who does quite well with his station. And like a major New York City radio programmer once said in the newspaper, "I don't program my station based on message board posts".

-OMW

Bob and I have been friends for over 20 plus years so he knows that I'm just pulling his leg. But he's right that there are a number of arm-chair quarterbacks on here who vent. But hey, it's a way of one to express themselves. That's the reason I'm on here, even though I haven't been in the business for over two years now. But I think after 30 years behind the microphone, I can at least add my two-cents once in a while.

 

[Bob1370]

WYSL has two definite problems. and possibly a third.

One sure problem is technical...its signal isn't yet up to competitive standards in most of Monroe County, especially in the city center and northern 'burbs where close to half the market's population lives and even more of it works. The 20,000 watt daytime signal will go a long way toward curing this deficit, but Bob, if you're reading this thread, have you considered adding another tower or two to allow you to run a thinner, but very strong northern lobe at night with at least 5,000 watts transmitter output beamed right into Monroe County? It might be worth the effort--you'd pick up a lot more listeners, especially during the winter in morning and afternoon drive times, by giving them a signal they can easily grab 24/7.

The other is marketing. How many people in Monroe County even know the station's there? I get the sense they've done a decent job in marketing to the southern 'burbs in Livingston and Ontario Counties, but a lot of people in the market's core just aren't aware of WYSL. Simulcasting Channel 10's news is fine and all that, but it's apparently not getting a whole lot of cross-promotional traction. Mount a promotional push coinciding with the signal upgrade and it could make a difference. I'm talking D&C ads, maybe a few selected trade-out spots with the TV stations (including not just 10 but 8, 13 and 31).

A third could be bad luck in diary placement--that too many diaries are just going into the market core and too few into the outer counties where WYSL would be expected to do better.

Programming could be an issue only in that the shows the station can get may not be a huge draw...but then again, issue talk with any partisan slant isn't the draw it used to be on any station (look at how Rush is being dumped by some big market blowtorch signals which had carried him for 15 years or more). Maybe talk with a lighter touch, or more straight ahead news even if they have to spend a few bucks to produce it themselves, might pay off in conjunction with the hotter signal. People are looking either for more entertainment in their talk (which is why sports talk is getting stronger in a lot of markets) or more straight-ahead news and discussion without partisan color (which is why some NPR affiliates like WXXI-AM are coming off their best winter books ever, and looking forward to a good spring performance).

 

[anoldguy]

Programming could be an issue only in that the shows the station can get may not be a huge draw...but then again, issue talk with any partisan slant isn't the draw it used to be on any station (look at how Rush is being dumped by some big market blowtorch signals which had carried him for 15 years or more). Maybe talk with a lighter touch, or more straight ahead news even if they have to spend a few bucks to produce it themselves, might pay off in conjunction with the hotter signal. People are looking either for more entertainment in their talk .

I agree with Bob. Aside from my your programing sucks remark -sorry that just came out wrong. I am so sick and tired of all this blah, blah, blah on the radio. Not just on the right wing, but on the left wing too. As I mentioned earlier I can't listen to Randi Rhodes. It's just a lecture series. I don't want to be told how to think by her, Rush, Al Frankin, or O'Reilly. On the other hand I do listen to Lonsbery becaue he is unpredictable. As much as he claims to be an ultra conservative, sometimes he comes around the other way and sounds like a very humane liberal. He puts people on the air that disagree with him. Sometimes he gets mean & snotty. Sometimes he is very funny. That is entertainment to me. I, also, like Ed shultz. He has a lot of common sense and puts a lot of people on the air that disagree with him. They force him to back up his words. But all in all, what I like is local. I don't care if it talk. oldies, CHR , Polkas , AM or FM that is what I always go to first.

I failed to mention in my previous post that several years ago I did get an Arbitron diary in the mail. Made 5 bucks on the deal. I was not working for any broadcasting company or any related field. I did listen to WYSL and put it down. I believe it may of been when Alan Colmes was on in the afternoon. WYSL did show up in the next book. I think it was around a 1.5 share. So that is one example of a person who got a book and did put down WYSL and it did show up. And Bob, again, my sincere best wishes to you and please except my apology for my previous statement. It was a very bad and inmature choice of words. I am very much for you and your station.

 

[Savage]

Howdy, folks, and thanks to anoldguy for the mea culpa. Don't worry about it, my friend. I was sincere when I said everyone has a right to tell us we're great, we suck, and all points in between. This is no venture for anyone with thin skin.

"And now, ladies and gentlemen: about Bob1370....."

Let me get this straight, Robert. Our signal is terrible, the programming has no merit, and we're not promoting effectively - but we're doing everything else okay, though, right?? Is the transmitter field mowed short enough to suit you?

Let's address your observation about "promotion" first. What's the point? What is WYSL supposed to promote? The awful signal nobody can hear or the lousy programming nobody wants to?

Seriously, though, this is the classic whine that sooner or later you hear from everybody in programming ("they cut my promotion budget!!" ...etc.) While WYSL gets this criticism from industry-types, we actually promote a lot. There's a :10 promo in each News 10 NBC cast, morning, noon, 5, 6 and 11, plus weekends, with logo and audio, which amounts to about $30,000 worth of TV, annualized. We did a continuous year with six nice-sized insertions in each Messenger-Post newspaper, as I recall, a total of eleven newspapers. We're in Red Wings programs and pocket schedules and we're in print here in Livingston County continuously.

Technical issues: we thank Bob1370 for his suggestions about improving WYSL coverage, which have entertainingly provided much merriment for our people as we work long hours to upgrade to 20kw to accomplish the improvement Robert says we desperately need. His idea about adding "a tower or two" to accomplish 5kw nighttime service raises a multitude of issues: there's the little matter of a thing called "the freeze" which was imposed by some Washington guys, "the FCC," but, heck: we're radio people. So we ought to be able to fix that with a couple of phone calls and a pair of restaurant gift certificates, right?

But: does Bob really think such a thing is possible from an engineering standpoint? Without delving into nighttime clipping studies, allocation studies, RSS and RMS fields that would have readers of this board, well, bored, let me ask: don't you think if such a thing could be done, WYSL would have already done it by now? (Sidebar: WYSL uses the same AM consulting engineer as does WXXI-AM.) Bob1370 also shows the naivete' of any coffee-break engineer, with his obvious assumption that an increase to 5kw nighttime, even if suddenly possible from an allocation standpoint, would noticeably improve coverage. By way of example: by powering up from 13.2kw to 20kw critical hours to daytime, WYSL's 2.0 mv/m moves out a whopping 2 miles. And that's with an almost 7kw power hike.

Programming: your comments about politically-oriented talk are noted. Guess Bob hasn't heard about how Laura and Jerry Doyle are on a nationwide ratings rampage; go to TRN's website and see for yourself. And you think the fix for WYSL's defective and demented political talk, is more even-handed commentary, kind of like that heard on....NPR?????

(We pause here for the audience laughter to subside.)

Okay.

Well......I've gotta go. They're STILL laughing.

 

[Media_Man]

So when is the date WYSL is going to throw the switch?! I work in Geneva and the station's current signal is not that good.

 

[Bob1370]

First let me say I have a lot of respect for what Bob Savage has done and accomplished in the business over the years, and my suggestions about why the station's not getting noticed in the Arbitrons are meant constructively. Here's where I'm coming from...

--From a technical point of view, the current 2500 watt daytime/500 watt night signal isn't really cutting through on a lot of today's car and table radios, especially in today's electrically noisy environment. Bumping up to 20,000 watts during daylight will help a lot...during daylight. And that's nothing to sneeze at. But whenever Uncle Sam lets more major AM upgrades take place (and he will, probably in the next 12-18 months), the station will need to find a way to jack up its pre-sunrise and post-sunset signal into Monroe County in order to be fully competitive in the key 6-10 AM and 3-7 PM dayparts, especially in the fall and winter books. Everyone who works for a station that goes directional in the dark hours knows what I'm talking about-when you have to pull in that pattern it hurts you in more hours than just the dead of night.

--From a programming point of view, dependence on syndicated talk isn't helping anyone as much as it used to, that's something we can see in rated markets across the country. What's the answer? Maybe it's different hosts who don't fit the current common mold. Maybe it's more straight-ahead news. Economic realities limit what any broadcast company can do, but there are always choices. No one's saying the current programming is bad, just that times and people's wants and needs change constantly and what worked when you signed up for it last year might not be working as well for you now...or might not be working here even if it works well in another different market in a different part of the country.

--As far as promotion, IMHO awareness of the signal and the service is probably job one--even before you address issues of programming, you have to let people know you're there.

Just thoughts, for whatever little or much they're worth...

 

[Savage]

Re: media_man's inquiry: if all goes according to Hoyle, this week should mark the end of nine years of two-tower DA-D 2500w operation at WYSL. We'll be disconnecting the existing daytime tuning networks and moving all terminating equipment over to the new feedlines and phasor. This may necessitate a brief period of low power, nondirectional operation, since the existing pattern-change contactors and sampling system will be disabled. This might actually IMPROVE reception in Geneva over the 2500-watt signal, a situation which might confound some message-board engineers, but in any case: "stay tuned."

I thank everyone for the good wishes and kind comments expressed here and by phone, e-mail, in person, etc. God willing, we'll have the big stick radiating soon.

I've been ordered by my former WAXC PD to get offline and get back to work, so this will be my last contribution for a while (I need this gig.)

 

[Cashman]

Good luck Bob! Say hello to Michael Warren Thomas for me!

Rich Jones

 

[Mark_Giardina]

Re: media_man's inquiry: if all goes according to Hoyle, this week should mark the end of nine years of two-tower DA-D 2500w operation at WYSL. We'll be disconnecting the existing daytime tuning networks and moving all terminating equipment over to the new feedlines and phasor. This may necessitate a brief period of low power, nondirectional operation, since the existing pattern-change contactors and sampling system will be disabled. This might actually IMPROVE reception in Geneva over the 2500-watt signal, a situation which might confound some message-board engineers, but in any case: "stay tuned."

I thank everyone for the good wishes and kind comments expressed here and by phone, e-mail, in person, etc. God willing, we'll have the big stick radiating soon.

I've been ordered by my former WAXC PD to get offline and get back to work, so this will be my last contribution for a while (I need this gig.)

Give em hell Bob! And good luck.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

I have always liked the calls WYSL they just have a good sound and look to them. I remember them from the other WYSL on 1400.

Now my 2 cents.....

I don't know Bob Savage, just that he was a jock and PD of some renoun.

i'm out of the market so what I think doesn't matter anyway.

I'm listening on the internet at 3:35 in the afternoon and I really like what I hear. The station sounds great, good voices and short spot breaks, news elements that are useful. Voices on news and spots which are very professional nice production elements. The tie in with WHEC and ABC news is great!

In the upgrade alone Bob is putting a hell of a lot of money into this station. I hope the payoff is a big one.

Now a question... Ever since FM became popular it seems the only AM stations to get ratings are the ones with an established audience (WBEN, WHAM) new stations or stations that have made a drastic format change have an uphill battle. Can anyone think of a newer AM station like WYSL which has done well in the ARB?

Kudos to Mr Savage for giving the people of Rochester an alternative to Clear Channel. I'm sure the people at WHAM are monitoring your station.

It's obvious Mr Savage likes good radio. I don't know him but I'll bet it would be a blast to work at WYSL.

 

[Mark_Giardina]

I don't know Bob Savage, just that he was a jock and PD of some renoun.

I remember listening to Bob on the radio when I was just a lad in the third grade. ;D

Kudos to Mr Savage for giving the people of Rochester an alternative to Clear Channel. I'm sure the people at WHAM are monitoring your station.

You bet your 50 thousand watts they are monitoring WYSL and for good reason. If 1040 AM manages to generate say a 3 or 4 share of the total listening audience away from WHAM, that would drop that station to third place behind WBEE and WDKX. That would not make CC very happy.

It's obvious Mr Savage likes good radio. I don't know him but I'll bet it would be a blast to work at WYSL.

Are you kidding me? I understand he took management lessons from Joseph Stalin

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

One thing I think I can confidently say about Bob Savage, and not just because he's here reading: He "gets it".

As anyone who follows radio knows, there is a pretty severe shortage of smaller, non-group broadcasters who "get it" - who understand how to run a radio station properly in such an environment. (The big group broadcasters which don't get it deserve their own thread.)

There's a reason Bob has been long-time friends with folks like Mr. Giardina and my own friend Scott Fybush...he "gets radio". He understands what needs to be done. He runs his station and makes it sound professional. He doesn't just push it off to a hard drive, never to be listened to again. He gets involved with his community and his market...which reminds me of the other thread of that little well-regarded station in Batavia.

There's no law that you have to like his programming decisions or other things, but he is a professional broadcaster who knows what the heck he's doing. THAT alone should make WHAM sit up and take notice, particularly when Bob gets that 20KW stick up and running...

 

[JohnGalt]

You bet your 50 thousand watts they are monitoring WYSL and for good reason. If 1040 AM manages to generate say a 3 or 4 share of the total listening audience away from WHAM, that would drop that station to third place behind WBEE and WDKX. That would not make CC very happy.

Take a look at the just-posted spring book. They aren't very happy already at CC. A 3 or 4 from the top-notch operation at WYSL would drop WHAM to middle of the pack.

 

[Mark_Giardina]

You bet your 50 thousand watts they are monitoring WYSL and for good reason. If 1040 AM manages to generate say a 3 or 4 share of the total listening audience away from WHAM, that would drop that station to third place behind WBEE and WDKX. That would not make CC very happy.

Take a look at the just-posted spring book. They aren't very happy already at CC. A 3 or 4 from the top-notch operation at WYSL would drop WHAM to middle of the pack.

And guess what? WYSL didn't show up in this book either! Gee for a station nobody listens to, according to Arbitron, they sure have a loyal customer base. :

 

[anoldguy]

This thread started out a long time ago saying that WBTA shows up in the Rochester Arbitron but WYSL does not. This latest book, from what I saw 12+, WBTA did not show up and neither did WYSL -again. I don't know what that means outside of the fact WHAM did take a pretty good drop 12+ and 12+ is important to them. Maybe people who listen to AM just don't fill out the diaries. I gotta gut feeling that more people listen to WROC than the results show too.