WYTS slips off the chart

[jakej]

Fall P1's are out today and 'YTS isn't listed, doesn't even rate a mention. Congratulations to Clear Channel for finding a way to get it out of the cellar. They should change the call sign to WLOC if it's not already taken -- Laughingstock of Columbus. Or else WNTS -- Nobody's Talk Station.

 

[SeanMGilbow]

Fall P1's are out today and 'YTS isn't listed, doesn't even rate a mention. Congratulations to Clear Channel for finding a way to get it out of the cellar. They should change the call sign to WLOC if it's not already taken -- Laughingstock of Columbus. Or else WNTS -- Nobody's Talk Station.

Since you brought it up...WTVN's numbers are slipping while WTDA gained slightly. Granted, this is a trend, and we have to wait until after Christmas. 1460 The Fan had a nice gain.

 

[davidduran]

I think a smart move would be to put Hannity live on WYTS. He'd get better coverage (during the winter) than he does now on WTVN and he could potentially help pull the station up a bit.

 

[SeanMGilbow]

I think a smart move would be to put Hannity live on WYTS. He'd get better coverage (during the winter) than he does now on WTVN and he could potentially help pull the station up a bit.

The whole format flip from progressive talk was centered around Glenn Beck. Beck wasn't happy about being moved from WTVN and is now on WTDA.

The one person who would be against such a move would be Hannity.

Meanwhile, the former listeners to AM 1230 have moved to the satellite dish and the podcast.

David, I've already had a run-in with Hannity's boss, Phil Boyce (PD at WABC in New York) on a topic in News/Talk. I realize you're new here, but be thankful Phil Boyce doesn't post on the Columbus board, much less read it. You won't like what he would say to your comment.

 

[LocalGuy]

David, I've already had a run-in with Hannity's boss, Phil Boyce (PD at WABC in New York) on a topic in News/Talk. I realize you're new here, but be thankful Phil Boyce doesn't post on the Columbus board, much less read it. You won't like what he would say to your comment.

...as you, yourself, experienced when Phil said the following:

"Sean Gilbow continues to flail like a fish on the bank who does not know he has been caught."

"It was a nice creative try to use air-headed calculations to justify somebody's pre-conceived notion about how well Big Ed is doing. Gilbow should go to the mirror...give a look of horror and grab his cheeks like the kid in Home Alone because the light bulb surely is going off in his tiny little head that his little calculation is worth about as much as my tiny suma wrestling towel. "

"Look...of course Hannity is going to beat Big Ed. That is not a shock to me. But it apparently is EARTH SHATTERING to a few kool-aide drinkers who came here to this board with preconcieved notions about how well he is doing...and how well liberal talk is doing."

"I am just not going to sit by and watch some morons post things here that are patently false about the shows I manage without correcting the record."

"This is what happens when somebody with a tiny bit of knowledge tries to debate the issue with somebody who actually DOES this for a living. "

"The Talkers Magazine semi-annual survey of the most listened to hosts in America is an estimate. I know this because I am close friends with Michael Harrison who created this magazine began this survey over 12 years ago. I have worked with Michael to make this list as accurate as possible. The reason this survey is an estimate, is that Arbitron does not release it's national radio ratings. In order to get them, you have to be a subscriber to Arbitron, on a national basis. It is expensive, and no trade publication could afford that. Only the major networks can afford it. I have access to those numbers, because I do subscrive. Talkers Magazine does not.......In fact both O'Reilly and Big Ed seem a bit high to me in the Talkers estimate. Keep in mind that it is an estimate. I think Harrison actually did some of the lib talkers a favor to help them get out of the gate because he wants to support this form of talk."

"...people like you simply drink the liberal kool-aide and refuse to listen to facts. Here I am explaining to you how radio works, and you cover your ears like some kid singing la-la-la-la..."


There was actually much more. The point is this --- you discovered that, yes, Phil (and most others who actually do this) reach their limits and stop suffering fools. While most just give up and depart because they have jobs to do and families to get home to (probably late), a few rare ones actually come here, point out the ignorance being displayed, and then donate their time to try to correct the flowery flattery of hosts with few listeners and the propaganda you've been fed on your favorite websites. That's very kind of them. And, in this case, for whatever the reason (I think it's because liberals tend to believe everything comes from the top down and Phil is in market #1, so you believe him when he says everything you'd already been told in market #37), it appears you've actually listened to him and learned. I congratulate you on that and am pleased to see that you did not offer the "SWITCH IT BACK TO LIBERAL TALK" response that was once the standard for you.

So, yes, even though WYTS might be having trouble finding an audience, it is, in Clear Channel's Columbus cluster and with how clusters are sold these days, probably doing the most logical thing it can do. If you really want that station, despite its signal and the realities of marketplace 2007, to do something that actively pursues some possible and/or larger audience, perhaps the best thing that could happen would be for Clear Channel to unload it to another company in whose cluster it would have some "better" (for you) fit and function. But, from Clear Channel's perspective, why do that when it's as easy to operate as it is?

 

[willcail]

Since none of us work in radio. Like Local Guy and Sean here is really going on.

Ed Schultz of Jones Radio and Thom Hartmann are doing well as Liberal Talkers. Both of them are on non Progressive Talk stations. Plus Ed Schultz is in the top five Talkers in Talkers Magazine. Ed Schultz is on over 100 stations. Both of them are going into their fifth year on being on the air. If they are failures why are they still on the air. Especially Ed Schultz since he is syndicated on the well to do Jones Radio Network. Heck Jones Radio have more Lib Talkers than Conservative Talkers. They are doing fine.

The only Fox News Radio show that is widely syndicated is the Alan Colmes Show.

Plus Here is a list of Syndicaters of Lib Talk

Jones Radio Network
Air America
Nova M
Fox News Radio
Envision Radio
Peter B. Collins is self syndicated

Now since Local Guy think that all conservo talk is successful and all Lib Talk failed then why is that when WYTS was a Lib Talk station got ratings while the so called new format does not.

 

[Radioboy989]

Since none of us work in radio.

You're speaking for...?

 

[jakej]

So, yes, even though WYTS might be having trouble finding an audience, it is, in Clear Channel's Columbus cluster and with how clusters are sold these days, probably doing the most logical thing it can do.

How can a station that's headed towards a 0.0 12+ share possibly be said to be "doing the most logical thing it can do"?
LocalGuy you are, VulcanGuy you're not. If Mr. Spock checks these boards, your post just gave him a heart attack.

 

[KFodor]

So, yes, even though WYTS might be having trouble finding an audience, it is, in Clear Channel's Columbus cluster and with how clusters are sold these days, probably doing the most logical thing it can do.

How can a station that's headed towards a 0.0 12+ share possibly be said to be "doing the most logical thing it can do"?
LocalGuy you are, VulcanGuy you're not. If Mr. Spock checks these boards, your post just gave him a heart attack.

Because, Jake...the idea is not to get big ratings. Consider it a "nuclear dump zone" for talkers that might, if on a bigger station that was serious about doing talk, harm WTVN. That alone, ratings notwithstanding, makes it worth having on the air and paying the electric bill. It's protecting WTVN's flanks and that's what it is intended to do.

Now, one can argue all day whether this is the proper use for a broadcast station license. (That dratted "interest, convenience and necessity" thing I argue about all the time on these boards.) But reality is: there's no law being broken here. Until and if that ever changes, any company be they nobody, or Clear Channel, can use stations for this purpose...especially signal-challenged AM's that have virtually no chance of getting little more than an unsellable 1 share in any format you can design.

 

[SeanMGilbow]

David, I've already had a run-in with Hannity's boss, Phil Boyce (PD at WABC in New York) on a topic in News/Talk. I realize you're new here, but be thankful Phil Boyce doesn't post on the Columbus board, much less read it. You won't like what he would say to your comment.

...as you, yourself, experienced when Phil said the following:

"Sean Gilbow continues to flail like a fish on the bank who does not know he has been caught."

"It was a nice creative try to use air-headed calculations to justify somebody's pre-conceived notion about how well Big Ed is doing. Gilbow should go to the mirror...give a look of horror and grab his cheeks like the kid in Home Alone because the light bulb surely is going off in his tiny little head that his little calculation is worth about as much as my tiny suma wrestling towel. "

"Look...of course Hannity is going to beat Big Ed. That is not a shock to me. But it apparently is EARTH SHATTERING to a few kool-aide drinkers who came here to this board with preconcieved notions about how well he is doing...and how well liberal talk is doing."

"I am just not going to sit by and watch some morons post things here that are patently false about the shows I manage without correcting the record."

"This is what happens when somebody with a tiny bit of knowledge tries to debate the issue with somebody who actually DOES this for a living. "

"The Talkers Magazine semi-annual survey of the most listened to hosts in America is an estimate. I know this because I am close friends with Michael Harrison who created this magazine began this survey over 12 years ago. I have worked with Michael to make this list as accurate as possible. The reason this survey is an estimate, is that Arbitron does not release it's national radio ratings. In order to get them, you have to be a subscriber to Arbitron, on a national basis. It is expensive, and no trade publication could afford that. Only the major networks can afford it. I have access to those numbers, because I do subscrive. Talkers Magazine does not.......In fact both O'Reilly and Big Ed seem a bit high to me in the Talkers estimate. Keep in mind that it is an estimate. I think Harrison actually did some of the lib talkers a favor to help them get out of the gate because he wants to support this form of talk."

"...people like you simply drink the liberal kool-aide and refuse to listen to facts. Here I am explaining to you how radio works, and you cover your ears like some kid singing la-la-la-la..."


There was actually much more. The point is this --- you discovered that, yes, Phil (and most others who actually do this) reach their limits and stop suffering fools. While most just give up and depart because they have jobs to do and families to get home to (probably late), a few rare ones actually come here, point out the ignorance being displayed, and then donate their time to try to correct the flowery flattery of hosts with few listeners and the propaganda you've been fed on your favorite websites. That's very kind of them. And, in this case, for whatever the reason (I think it's because liberals tend to believe everything comes from the top down and Phil is in market #1, so you believe him when he says everything you'd already been told in market #37), it appears you've actually listened to him and learned. I congratulate you on that and am pleased to see that you did not offer the "SWITCH IT BACK TO LIBERAL TALK" response that was once the standard for you.

So, yes, even though WYTS might be having trouble finding an audience, it is, in Clear Channel's Columbus cluster and with how clusters are sold these days, probably doing the most logical thing it can do. If you really want that station, despite its signal and the realities of marketplace 2007, to do something that actively pursues some possible and/or larger audience, perhaps the best thing that could happen would be for Clear Channel to unload it to another company in whose cluster it would have some "better" (for you) fit and function. But, from Clear Channel's perspective, why do that when it's as easy to operate as it is?

Local Guy...somehow you must have had a heck of a lot of free time to find all this stuff on me. Chances are (since we cannot know for sure as you hide behind an ID) that you are currently making a fraction of what I make in my non-radio job, and you could end up losing your job any day some owner wants to cut costs or flip a format. Regular posters on this board may remember how Clear Channel's Columbus cluster gave out plenty of pink slips last year around this time, and some very talented radio people with decades of experience found themselves on the unemployment line.

The one thing that Phil Boyce has to his credit is that at least he, like myself, is willing to put his name with his comments. One of the things you did overlook, however, was when he said he was going to stop harassing me (his words) because I asked a legitimate question regarding audience numbers.

Upon reading some of the comments put forth here in this thread, the question that should be asked here is if the strategy is working. Until the Fall numbers come out, that cannot be answered. But if the numbers released yesterday are any indication, the strategy may not be working: WYTS doesn't exist, and WTVN is slipping. Meanwhile, WTDA gained slightly and WBNS saw a spike (Buckeye Frenzy, no doubt). Even WRFD saw an increase in its numbers.

Again, I'll wait for the Fall numbers before making any sort of judgment.

But I will say this, Local Guy...As a former broadcaster, it is guys like you and Phil Boyce that make me thankful I was able to choose a different career path early in life that has proven less stressful and more lucrative. And one that actually serves real people who are becoming increasingly alienated with broadcast fare fed to them by corporate entities, people who are as we speak buying more and more HD radio players, satellite radio receivers and podcast subscriptions.

And apparently my sentiments are similar to posters from across the country. The News/Talk board has had some very interesting comments from posters who are getting to the point of being thankful for wall-to-wall Christmas music.

Of particular interest were the comments of Jay Marvin, who substituted for Ed Schultz on occasion when Big Eddie was heard on AM 1230 and now hosts mornings on a progressive talk station owned by Clear Channel in Boulder, Colorado:

Talk radio is at it's best when it is fun to listen too. Who cares if the talent is right or left as long as their good. Up until a few years ago you had people on the air who were good, and their was a lot of drama going on. So you wanted to tune to hear all the fun. Hosts fighting with callers, and being funny and clever about it, hosts fighting with each other, and being funny and clever about it. Now all you have is agenda driven hate and bile 24/7. Look, I use to be one of the most combative hosts on the air. But callers always knew they could come back and we would either agree or disagree. I would hang up on people and call them "brain stems" and do all kinds of wild stuff. I'd laugh so hard on the air I would have tears streaming out of my eyes because I worked with great folks like Grant Parke and Steve Alexander. Now I might get angry every once in a while, but times change. And I got tired of doing it. Back in those days the callers knew how to play the game, and they would even call in and say all kinds of crazy stuff. Now everyone has to be so PC that when you do even inch towards the line the complaints start pouring in. Most hosts go back to the same thing all the time: Bush is evil and Liberals are un-American jerks and they hate America. It's all the same old same old. I don't know about anyone else I'm tired of it. Things have to change. The problem is there's too much syndication, very little talent out there, and no one willing to take a gamble on trying anything new. As far as Jones goes I'm right in their backyard and I've never heard from them. That's OK. Syndication is never going to happen for me, and it's fine. I'm happy and love the people I work with. It's radio I'm sad about. It better turn itself around before it's too late.

 

[JohnboyCrenshaw]

Hi Sean,

Not hiding. My name!

What's his income level have to do with anything? Seemed like a 'low blow.'

Best,
JbC

 

[SeanMGilbow]

Call it what you like, John. That's exactly the type of stuff I can hear on a regular basis from practically every syndicated talker your stations carry.

But I now limit my listening to pretty much three stations in Columbus when I'm not podcasting Ed Schultz or Stephanie Miller:

Mix 97.1
1460 The Fan

and the wall-to-wall Christmas music on Sunny 95.

 

[davidduran]

I think a smart move would be to put Hannity live on WYTS. He'd get better coverage (during the winter) than he does now on WTVN and he could potentially help pull the station up a bit.

The whole format flip from progressive talk was centered around Glenn Beck.  Beck wasn't happy about being moved from WTVN and is now on WTDA.

The one person who would be against such a move would be Hannity.

Meanwhile, the former listeners to AM 1230 have moved to the satellite dish and the podcast.

David, I've already had a run-in with Hannity's boss, Phil Boyce (PD at WABC in New York) on a topic in News/Talk.  I realize you're new here, but be thankful Phil Boyce doesn't post on the Columbus board, much less read it.  You won't like what he would say to your comment.

No, Sean, I think the problem is that YOU don't like my comment. Just because I'm new to the board doesn't mean I'm new to radio. I've worked at five different stations in three different states, trust me I have a good understanding as to how it works.  I posted my opinion. (isn't that the reason for this boards existence?) I also realize that it will never happen, I'm not an idiot. I have a feeling that if I would have ended my post with "Hannity on WYTS and Ed Shultz to WTVN" you would have agreed completely.

 

[SeanMGilbow]

I think a smart move would be to put Hannity live on WYTS. He'd get better coverage (during the winter) than he does now on WTVN and he could potentially help pull the station up a bit.

The whole format flip from progressive talk was centered around Glenn Beck. Beck wasn't happy about being moved from WTVN and is now on WTDA.

The one person who would be against such a move would be Hannity.

Meanwhile, the former listeners to AM 1230 have moved to the satellite dish and the podcast.

David, I've already had a run-in with Hannity's boss, Phil Boyce (PD at WABC in New York) on a topic in News/Talk. I realize you're new here, but be thankful Phil Boyce doesn't post on the Columbus board, much less read it. You won't like what he would say to your comment.

No, Sean, I think the problem is that YOU don't like my comment. Just because I'm new to the board doesn't mean I'm new to radio. I've worked at five different stations in three different states, trust me I have a good understanding as to how it works. I posted my opinion. (isn't that the reason for this boards existence?) I also realize that it will never happen, I'm not an idiot. I have a feeling that if I would have ended my post with "Hannity on WYTS and Ed Shultz to WTVN" you would have agreed completely.

You're kidding, right?

Jason Roberts hit the nail on the head. In no way would Hannity or Phil Boyce approve of Sean going to Clear Channel's "nuclear dump zone." And Clear Channel is not about to have Hannity go head-to-head against John Corby, either on another station of theirs or on a pure competitor.

As for Ed Schultz...he would not fit WTVN. And unlike Glenn Beck, he and Stephanie Miller, as well as the Air America talkers, would not complain about being on a rinky-dink signal. After progressive talk replaced real oldies on AM 1230 in 2004, the audience numbers tripled. Even at its lowest point as a progressive talk station, it still registered double the ratings of its previous "real oldies" format.

And unlike now, "real oldies" at least registered ratings.

But it won't be until the fall book comes out before WYTS' non-existence is official.

 

[Radioboy989]

Sean-

Really, truly not meant to be nasty, I mean that, but your constant diatribes about liberal radio and where it should be and why it should be and who killed it, etc. are just plain tiresome.

I seem to remember reading on here that you work for the state or were/are a state trooper and you are selling some kind of natural cleaners and you alluded at least a couple of times over the months to all the money you make....

Why don't you buy a station and put on whatever the heck you want to put on? It's your right just like it's Clear Channel's right. We call it America.

Instead of burning 10,000 keystokes a day on this message board, use the finger action to type that business plan and get to it.

One man's opinion.

 

[willcail]

well Local Boy and other fans of conservo talk will have a heart attack comes next week.

www.wvko1580.com under constriction. Check it out next week and weep.

 

[columbus radio fan]

If you had access to the latest trend from Arbitron, you would notice that not only did WYTS fall off the book, but WTVN took a huge hit 25-54 men, and all the female leaning stations took a huge jump (WLVQ went from a 4.5 to over 9 share 25-54 female). Men sample rates/return rates were off as much as 48%, so it really affected the trends. That's why stations don't pay attention to trends...they only care for the actual books.

 

[jakej]

And the Dispatch figures that the general public doesn't care about either. Anyone notice that the big Arbitron chart wasn't included with the paper's mini-writeup about the Summer book last month? The Dispatch has been downsizing for months if not years, and I guess they figured the ratings game has gotten to be largely irrelevant to your average joe.
Maybe it has. After all, the cesspool is gonna stay a cesspool no matter how much public ridicule and guffawing the perennial also-also-also-rans are subjected to, and I think by now everyone in Columbus knows that. Twelve of our 27 finest fell into Jason's dreaded sub-2.0 category this past summer, where money loss and lots of it is all but guaranteed, but I for one still think it's a shame that the latest developments in their downturns were kept more hush-hush than usual. Oh well, at least we here at radio-info.com know the truth, right?! And so do all of the local and national advertisers, potential advertisers, and (to those lucky twelve) pipe-dream advertisers.

 

[Radioboy989]

LET ME CLARIFY SOMETHING

I got a couple of "off board" messages about my last post. In no way am I putting anyone down or giving them "what for" as one person put it. I am truly suggesting that if something means as much to anyone as this liberal talk idea means to Sean, he should look into using his resources to make it happen. While I don't agree with his politics, I do admire his fire. I just believe there are better uses for his energy than posting on here about it. Last time I checked there was an open frequency for LPFM in South Bloomfield. That may be a good place to start. Get it on the air, stream it, build the audience and then sell the completed product to a larger outlet... Could mean some money in his pockets and maybe a phiosophical victory.

For future reference, please know that I am never intentionally nasty to anyone...snide maybe, but never nasty. If I ever post anything on here that comes across as mean spirited, please feel free to bring it to my attention. I love to argue a point but I never want to be read as an evil person, it's just not in my nature. Honest debate between honest people is one of the things I love most about being an American.

Sean, if you read my post and took it to be derived from meaness, please know that was not my intent.

 

[davidduran]

I think a smart move would be to put Hannity live on WYTS. He'd get better coverage (during the winter) than he does now on WTVN and he could potentially help pull the station up a bit.

The whole format flip from progressive talk was centered around Glenn Beck. Beck wasn't happy about being moved from WTVN and is now on WTDA.

The one person who would be against such a move would be Hannity.

Meanwhile, the former listeners to AM 1230 have moved to the satellite dish and the podcast.

David, I've already had a run-in with Hannity's boss, Phil Boyce (PD at WABC in New York) on a topic in News/Talk. I realize you're new here, but be thankful Phil Boyce doesn't post on the Columbus board, much less read it. You won't like what he would say to your comment.

No, Sean, I think the problem is that YOU don't like my comment. Just because I'm new to the board doesn't mean I'm new to radio. I've worked at five different stations in three different states, trust me I have a good understanding as to how it works. I posted my opinion. (isn't that the reason for this boards existence?) I also realize that it will never happen, I'm not an idiot. I have a feeling that if I would have ended my post with "Hannity on WYTS and Ed Shultz to WTVN" you would have agreed completely.

You're kidding, right?

Jason Roberts hit the nail on the head. In no way would Hannity or Phil Boyce approve of Sean going to Clear Channel's "nuclear dump zone." And Clear Channel is not about to have Hannity go head-to-head against John Corby, either on another station of theirs or on a pure competitor.

As for Ed Schultz...he would not fit WTVN. And unlike Glenn Beck, he and Stephanie Miller, as well as the Air America talkers, would not complain about being on a rinky-dink signal. After progressive talk replaced real oldies on AM 1230 in 2004, the audience numbers tripled. Even at its lowest point as a progressive talk station, it still registered double the ratings of its previous "real oldies" format.

And unlike now, "real oldies" at least registered ratings.

But it won't be until the fall book comes out before WYTS' non-existence is official.

you missed my point completely. I understand that it would never or could never happen. ALL i was saying was that IN MY OPINION it seems like a good idea.