WZZB in AM Stereo?

[dfwrunner]

Is there really an audience for this? Any audited verification? I guess it's not IBOC.

 

[radio lover]

Was reading about this station on line and it appears to be in stereo. Good for them and the lucky listeners who am stereo radios.

 

[BobOnTheJob]

I've been their engineer since the 'new' owners came on board in early 1990. The AM stereo was added when the old Collins transmitter was replaced with a BE AM1-A somewhere in the 90's. Jimbo700 on this board called me the other day & told me that the right channel was missing--so there is 1 listener anyway. The owner cleaned the dirty pot on the Optimod 9100B & it was back to normal. Sounds really good...better than IBOC by far. And they do play mostly music on "Stereo Classic 1390 WZZB".

 

[dfwrunner]

I've been their engineer since the 'new' owners came on board in early 1990. The AM stereo was added when the old Collins transmitter was replaced with a BE AM1-A somewhere in the 90's. Jimbo700 on this board called me the other day & told me that the right channel was missing--so there is 1 listener anyway. The owner cleaned the dirty pot on the Optimod 9100B & it was back to normal. Sounds really good...better than IBOC by far. And they do play mostly music on "Stereo Classic 1390 WZZB".

I'm curious as to why I keep reading "better than IBOC" comments. From my experience so far, it isn't IBOC necessarily, but really crappy implementations in available tuners. The analog sound in these HD radios is just as crappy as the IBOC mode. I've yet to find one thats as good as either my Kenwood KR8010 or my Sherwood (AM or FM) in analog.

 

[jimbo700]

WZZB does broadcast in AM stereo (C Quam, of course) and they play music.
I won't even try to give any impression that I think there is a future in AM Stereo because there isn't, but I will say that WZZB sounds as good as many FM stations in southern Indiana. I have a Delco AM Stereo (taken from a 1991 Caddy at the junkyard) and I have a radio Shack TM 152 stereo tuner at home with an external loop antenna and both have no problem picking up WZZB here in Columbus (during the day).
I also have an Alpine HD radio in my wife's Explorer and when I get close enough to Indy to pick up the HD signals (which is usually north of Franklin except for Hank FM) I check out the HD on AM and FM so I do have something to compare quality to, and comparing AM-HD to C-Quam stereo isn't even close.
WZZB's airchain is clean, stereo separation is great and their processing is great.
I will say one thing for my friend Bob On The Job, he knows how to put together a great sounding AM station airchain. WJCP in North Vernon sounds fantastic, as does WIFE in Connersville and WTRE in Greensburg. It's kind of strange that there are still that many stations broadcasting music on AM, but Bob can sure make 'em sound good.... And there's something about Motorola's C-Quam stereo that really appeals to my ears. I remember when WIBC, WOWO, WHAS and others played music in stereo and they all sounded great.
WLS still switches off their HD generator at night (as a courtesy to co-channel occupants) and their night-time transmitter still transmits in stereo.... and sound great.

 

[dfwrunner]

WZZB does broadcast in AM stereo (C Quam, of course) and they play music.
I won't even try to give any impression that I think there is a future in AM Stereo because there isn't, but I will say that WZZB sounds as good as many FM stations in southern Indiana. I have a Delco AM Stereo (taken from a 1991 Caddy at the junkyard) and I have a radio Shack TM 152 stereo tuner at home with an external loop antenna and both have no problem picking up WZZB here in Columbus (during the day).
I also have an Alpine HD radio in my wife's Explorer and when I get close enough to Indy to pick up the HD signals (which is usually north of Franklin except for Hank FM) I check out the HD on AM and FM so I do have something to compare quality to, and comparing AM-HD to C-Quam stereo isn't even close.
WZZB's airchain is clean, stereo separation is great and their processing is great.
I will say one thing for my friend Bob On The Job, he knows how to put together a great sounding AM station airchain. WJCP in North Vernon sounds fantastic, as does WIFE in Connersville and WTRE in Greensburg. It's kind of strange that there are still that many stations broadcasting music on AM, but Bob can sure make 'em sound good.... And there's something about Motorola's C-Quam stereo that really appeals to my ears. I remember when WIBC, WOWO, WHAS and others played music in stereo and they all sounded great.
WLS still switches off their HD generator at night (as a courtesy to co-channel occupants) and their night-time transmitter still transmits in stereo.... and sound great.

eighty nine, double U ell esss Chi-ca-go...John Records Landecker

 

[BobOnTheJob]

I've been their engineer since the 'new' owners came on board in early 1990. The AM stereo was added when the old Collins transmitter was replaced with a BE AM1-A somewhere in the 90's. Jimbo700 on this board called me the other day & told me that the right channel was missing--so there is 1 listener anyway. The owner cleaned the dirty pot on the Optimod 9100B & it was back to normal. Sounds really good...better than IBOC by far. And they do play mostly music on "Stereo Classic 1390 WZZB".

I'm curious as to why I keep reading "better than IBOC" comments. From my experience so far, it isn't IBOC necessarily, but really crappy implementations in available tuners. The analog sound in these HD radios is just as crappy as the IBOC mode. I've yet to find one thats as good as either my Kenwood KR8010 or my Sherwood (AM or FM) in analog.

It's pretty simple...AM IBOC sounds like a fairly decent Internet stream...it still has some swishing sound mixed with it...a far cry from the 15khz AM we enjoyed until 1994. FM IBOC sounds at least equal to analog stereo as long as there is no HD2 channel...when the available bandwidth is split between two program channels, the quality of both drops below analog. At least that's what my ears hear & I've been at this game for over 42 years now.

 

[dfwrunner]

I've been their engineer since the 'new' owners came on board in early 1990. The AM stereo was added when the old Collins transmitter was replaced with a BE AM1-A somewhere in the 90's. Jimbo700 on this board called me the other day & told me that the right channel was missing--so there is 1 listener anyway. The owner cleaned the dirty pot on the Optimod 9100B & it was back to normal. Sounds really good...better than IBOC by far. And they do play mostly music on "Stereo Classic 1390 WZZB".

I'm curious as to why I keep reading "better than IBOC" comments. From my experience so far, it isn't IBOC necessarily, but really crappy implementations in available tuners. The analog sound in these HD radios is just as crappy as the IBOC mode. I've yet to find one thats as good as either my Kenwood KR8010 or my Sherwood (AM or FM) in analog.

It's pretty simple...AM IBOC sounds like a fairly decent Internet stream...it still has some swishing sound mixed with it...a far cry from the 15khz AM we enjoyed until 1994. FM IBOC sounds at least equal to analog stereo as long as there is no HD2 channel...when the available bandwidth is split between two program channels, the quality of both drops below analog. At least that's what my ears hear & I've been at this game for over 42 years now.

I've found that the dimplementation in HD tuners is just poor...the analog quality of these so called HD tuners in analog mode is inferior to old high end receivers from the 70s.

 

[ChiefEngineer]

Never having heard HD, just the buzz on adjacent channels, this is quite remarkable.

HD doesn't sound as good as analog when the HD 2 is used? Maybe someone should have thought of this.

 

[BobOnTheJob]

I've been their engineer since the 'new' owners came on board in early 1990. The AM stereo was added when the old Collins transmitter was replaced with a BE AM1-A somewhere in the 90's. Jimbo700 on this board called me the other day & told me that the right channel was missing--so there is 1 listener anyway. The owner cleaned the dirty pot on the Optimod 9100B & it was back to normal. Sounds really good...better than IBOC by far. And they do play mostly music on "Stereo Classic 1390 WZZB".

I'm curious as to why I keep reading "better than IBOC" comments. From my experience so far, it isn't IBOC necessarily, but really crappy implementations in available tuners. The analog sound in these HD radios is just as crappy as the IBOC mode. I've yet to find one thats as good as either my Kenwood KR8010 or my Sherwood (AM or FM) in analog.

It's pretty simple...AM IBOC sounds like a fairly decent Internet stream...it still has some swishing sound mixed with it...a far cry from the 15khz AM we enjoyed until 1994. FM IBOC sounds at least equal to analog stereo as long as there is no HD2 channel...when the available bandwidth is split between two program channels, the quality of both drops below analog. At least that's what my ears hear & I've been at this game for over 42 years now.

I've found that the dimplementation in HD tuners is just poor...the analog quality of these so called HD tuners in analog mode is inferior to old high end receivers from the 70s.

Couldn't agree more on the analog quality. It got even better if you went back into the 1960's...most 5 tube table radios sounded quiet good then. The manufacturers got hold of ceramic IF Filters & started narrowing up the IF bandwidth when the AM dial started getting more packed with stations and audio quality suffered. That said, the HD tuners technically must have wider bandwidth than the analog portions do as the HD signal (the one everyone--including yours truly--gripes about for it's interference generation) is about +/- 10khz from the analog AM carrier. So I'm not sure there's any relation between the analog tuner & it's HD circuitry.

 

[BobOnTheJob]

Never having heard HD, just the buzz on adjacent channels, this is quite remarkable.

HD doesn't sound as good as analog when the HD 2 is used? Maybe someone should have thought of this.

That's my opinion based on my brief time with an HD car radio a couple years ago. I sent it back...on AM the switching between analog & HD (a very frequent occurrence) made AM unlistenable. I gladly took back my 3-4khz AM mono audio. My ears heard HD audio that was slightly better than analog (not better enough to justify all of the downsides to this flawed system) on FM's that had no HD2. On that car radio (an Alpine pretty near the top of the line), stations with an HD2 had the slightest amount of swishing in both the HD1 & HD2. Most would not have noticed it, but I'm hyper-sensitive to swishing sounds. When you look at the small amount of bandwidth they have to cram all this data into (and even then, it tears the adjacent FM channel to shreds) and then divide it to add an HD2 channel, it becomes obvious that the quality is going to take a hit--no free lunch. Sounds decent enough on smaller radios at low volume, but not when you crank it up for a critical listen in the car. That's just my opinion...I admit, I hate IBOC and am not, nor do I want to become an expert where this fiasco is concerned.

 

[jimbo700]

And now that the NAB..... I mean the FCC has approved the 6db increase in power for HD radio (6 db is the "normal increase" although some stations can qualify for up to 10db), the interference will really become an issue.
I find it unbelievable that this inferior system was slammed through the FCC and passed.

 

[radio lover]

Was in northern Indiana today and listening to WLS and it was in am stereo all day today, thought they were only using it at night? Sounded great!!

 

[kb9wsl]

My old Plymouth Sundance had an AM Stereo radio in it. WOWO in Ft Wayne sounded good in AM stereo when they played music. Static from thunderstorms sounded better in AM stereo too! Wish my 2000 Dodge Grand Caravan had an AM stereo radio in it.

 

[radio lover]

I bought a caddy radio from the 90's from the local junk yard for 30.00, and it has am stereo, buit a box and mounted it in with some old jensen car speakers with my ac adapter.

 

[KR4BD]

I know many have NEVER heard AM stereo. It really sounded great for many stations! When I was working (outside radio) temporarily in Rochester, NY from about 1996-99, we had a Ford Grand Victoria with AM stereo. There was an AM station across Lake Ontario on 800 that played country music in Stereo. It sounded awesome. That prompted me to buy a Sony Walkman (SRF 42) which had a AM Stereo tuner. Unfortunately, most AM stations that had stereo dropped it shortly thereafter!