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XM Vs. Sirius: One Listener's Biased Opinion

B

Batfink

I've been a Sirius subscriber for several months and out of curuiosity decided to try XM's free 3-day trial on the internet. Here are my totally biased observations and comparisons:

1) Neither service is great when it come to talk-radio. While XM's on-line sample didn't offer much of their talk line-up, from reading what's available on the site it seems both services offer mostly second-rate talk shows most of which are available on terrestrial radio. Sirius has the edge with the excellent Alex Bennett and Lynn Samuels shows. The obvious comparison between Stern and Opie & Anthony is of course a matter of taste, but I did find it interesting how much time O&A spent talking about Stern. Personally, I found O&A a bit boring but I realize O&A fans would feel the same about Stern.

2)XM's oldies channels seem to re-create the old-style music stations a little better, mainly because of the jingles and more DJ banter. They even had a show "hosted" by the late Wolfman Jack, using old clips. XM offers a 40's and 90's channel true to the decades they represent, something Sirius doesn't offer unless you count The Pulse, which, as has been pointed out here is actually Hot AC. On the other hand, Sirius has BBC 1 and Underground Garage.

3)Both offer a clean and "unedited" comedy channel, and both are equally good.

4)Both services offer a wide variety of rock that blows away any city's FM selections, with Sirius having the edge for classic rock and XM having a slight edge for metal and alternative (including an excellent channel devoted to punk and ska, which are totally ignored by Sirius).

Overall, both services get high marks although the music channels are a bit heavy with voice-tracking...I like a live DJ who can maybe take a call or two and experience the real moment with the listeners.

Summing up, the choice comes down to which special features, such as certain sports and specific talk shows or DJ's you prefer In my case, the abundance of New York DJ's and hosts I grew up with as well as BBC-1 and Left Of Center make me not regret choosing Sirius...but sampling XM was an enjoyable experience.
 
In semi-defense of XM

> I've been a Sirius subscriber for several months and out of
> curuiosity decided to try XM's free 3-day trial on the
> internet. Here are my totally biased observations and
> comparisons:

I wish XM would have given that 3-day with a larger number of stations temporarily. I listen on the net from time to time but a lot of the stations on there are moved to the net due to bandwith restrictions. Some were moved because of baseball, some were moved due to the Canada channel availability. I am totally unaware if SIRIUS had done this as well.


> 1) Neither service is great when it come to talk-radio.
> While XM's on-line sample didn't offer much of their talk
> line-up, from reading what's available on the site it seems
> both services offer mostly second-rate talk shows most of
> which are available on terrestrial radio. Sirius has the
> edge with the excellent Alex Bennett and Lynn Samuels shows.

Never heard of them, but listening to the talk shows regularly, I have to agree that there isn't a great selection available. SIRIUS will gain in that area when Fox starts up again.

> The obvious comparison between Stern and Opie & Anthony is
> of course a matter of taste, but I did find it interesting
> how much time O&A spent talking about Stern. Personally, I
> found O&A a bit boring but I realize O&A fans would feel the
> same about Stern.

OMG haha I do have to apologize on that point. There was a bit going on between the O&A show and the Stern tryout guy Scott Ferrell. They already had a very friendly history together until Scott went to SIRIUS and totally began trashing on them. After Scott was bumped off, Howard finally went into a rant about XM & O&A. Unfortunatly, Howard's angle was his typical delusional falsities. O&A love exposing Howard and broadcasting his egomaniacal delusions.
Up until last week, Opie was taking a trashing by his own fans on talking too much Howard for a bit. For MONTHS, they would do a quick rant on Howard and Opie would actually keep track of the minutes to shut the complainers up. Last week was a different story (especially yesterday). Now that will calm down to a normal 5-10 minute level. Otherwise their show is usually awesome. O&A fans are tired of Howard. His ego, his lies, his attempt at being hip instead of jsut trying to be funny, Robin's totally clueless banter, and Howard's total in ability to take on competition. He lost Billy West, Jackie, Allison and 90% of his listeners and what is left is a very rich, doddering old man who shows his best comedy is long behind him. He said he was going to revolutionize satellite radio and all he has been able to do is re-record a lot of his old bits.

> 2)XM's oldies channels seem to re-create the old-style music
> stations a little better, mainly because of the jingles and
> more DJ banter. They even had a show "hosted" by the late
> Wolfman Jack, using old clips. XM offers a 40's and 90's
> channel true to the decades they represent, something Sirius
> doesn't offer unless you count The Pulse, which, as has been
> pointed out here is actually Hot AC. On the other hand,
> Sirius has BBC 1 and Underground Garage.

What does the Underground Garage play? I actually got my grandfather listening to XM because of the 40's channel.

> 3)Both offer a clean and "unedited" comedy channel, and both
> are equally good.
>

XM offers a chunk of Canadian comeidans. Not sure if SIRIUS has to do the same. It's interesting. I would be interested in listening to SIRIUS for a short breath, but Howie is one of a few reasons I am adverse to SIRIUS altogether.
> 4)Both services offer a wide variety of rock that blows away
> any city's FM selections, with Sirius having the edge for
> classic rock and XM having a slight edge for metal and
> alternative (including an excellent channel devoted to punk
> and ska, which are totally ignored by Sirius).
>
> Overall, both services get high marks although the music
> channels are a bit heavy with voice-tracking...I like a live
> DJ who can maybe take a call or two and experience the real
> moment with the listeners.
>
> Summing up, the choice comes down to which special features,
> such as certain sports and specific talk shows or DJ's you
> prefer In my case, the abundance of New York DJ's and hosts
> I grew up with as well as BBC-1 and Left Of Center make me
> not regret choosing Sirius...but sampling XM was an
> enjoyable experience.
>
 
Re: In semi-defense of XM

> O&A fans are tired of Howard. > >

I think both Howard and O&A can be very funny at times and boring at other times; but imagine how hard it is to put on a four or five hour show every day that is constantly funny and entertaining...Leno and Letterman have trouble with just an hour a night! And of course humor is always a matter of personal taste and preference.

> What does the Underground Garage play?>>

They play "garage rock", straight-ahead 4/4 guitar-driven rock n' roll, usually no guitar solos and always simple catchy melodies. Examples would be anything from Paul Revere & the Radiers and the Kingsmen to the Chesterfield Kings and the Hives.
 
Re: In semi-defense of XM

Your assessment of O & A sound dillusional. It's easy to take shots at the #1 radio broadcaster.

Occasionally Howard will claim that people "stole his ideas." Some are true, others are exaggerations. Nevertheless, at least Howard made big enough of an impact to have his ideas "stolen"

Opie & Anthony are two never-have-been's who copied Howard's blueprint and fell flat on their faces doing so. 95% of the United States does not know who Opie and Anthony are, and most of the 5% who do know them, couldn't give a damn.

And I love it how those two take shots at Howard for trying to be hip. Last time I checked Opie and Anthony were approaching their late 40's...Not exactly the MTV crowd either...

Comparing Howard to O & A is like comparing Barry Bonds to Candy Maldonado
 
> [XM's oldies channels seem to re-create the old-style music
> stations a little better, mainly because of the jingles and
> more DJ banter. They even had a show "hosted" by the late
> Wolfman Jack, using old clips. XM offers a 40's and 90's
> channel true to the decades they represent, something Sirius
> doesn't offer unless you count The Pulse, which, as has been
> pointed out here is actually Hot AC. On the other hand,
> Sirius has BBC 1 and Underground Garage.]


XM seems to be miles ahead in what I call "theme" Oldies programming. Their '50s channel has Pink & Black Days, Harlem, Rockabilly Road Trip, Cool Bobby B, The Strip, and Dave's Hollywood Diner. From what I can see, Sirius only has Cousin Brucie and a Doo Wop show on Sunday nights (and the all-Elvis channel, of course).
 
Re: In semi-defense of XM

> > O&A fans are tired of Howard. > >
>
> I think both Howard and O&A can be very funny at times and
> boring at other times; but imagine how hard it is to put on
> a four or five hour show every day that is constantly funny
> and entertaining...Leno and Letterman have trouble with just
> an hour a night! And of course humor is always a matter of
> personal taste and preference.
>
> > What does the Underground Garage play?>>
>
> They play "garage rock", straight-ahead 4/4 guitar-driven
> rock n' roll, usually no guitar solos and always simple
> catchy melodies. Examples would be anything from Paul Revere
> & the Radiers and the Kingsmen to the Chesterfield Kings and
> the Hives.
>

Ah, the days before the solo...always nice!!
 
Re: In semi-defense of XM

> Leno and Letterman have trouble with just an hour a night!
>
Leno & Letterman most likely have more writers working for them also.
 
Re: In semi-defense of XM

> Your assessment of O & A sound dillusional. It's easy to
> take shots at the #1 radio broadcaster.
>
> Occasionally Howard will claim that people "stole his
> ideas." Some are true, others are exaggerations.
> Nevertheless, at least Howard made big enough of an impact
> to have his ideas "stolen"
>
> Opie & Anthony are two never-have-been's who copied Howard's
> blueprint and fell flat on their faces doing so. 95% of the
> United States does not know who Opie and Anthony are, and
> most of the 5% who do know them, couldn't give a damn.
>
> And I love it how those two take shots at Howard for trying
> to be hip. Last time I checked Opie and Anthony were
> approaching their late 40's...Not exactly the MTV crowd
> either...
>
> Comparing Howard to O & A is like comparing Barry Bonds to
> Candy Maldonado
>


I fail to see the correlation between your reply and my post. yeah, they do take shots at Howard in his boy scout uniform and his hip-hop clothing look on a 55 year old man. From what I can remember, yes, O&A are in their early to mid 40s. But then again, they don't attempt to BE the Mtv crowd. They also, on MULTIPLE occasions, give Howie his due. But they also mention that Howie isn't Howie anymore. This is not the early 90s.

In regards to your O&A never-have-been issue, it seems that their former employer saw something that you don't. After their "Sam" firing, they were GOING to be released but the company had an about-face and chose to keep them hidden for the remainder of their contract. Why? They had a job offer almost immediatly from the competing station across the street. No Howie-instructed gag order, no being 2nd fiddle to Howard...straight head-to-head syndicated competition with the King Shcok Jock himself. They would have been on the air again within a week. Howie and the company didn't want that. But if they were as bad as you've made them sound, open competition should have been welcomed with wide open arms.

Let's also note that Howard had 15 months to hype SIRIUS and has managed to only bring over about 10% of his audience. O&A have had just over a year, after over two years of exile, to build an audience. In that time, they have built an audience from practically zero, to a larger listening audience than Howie. A better baseball analogy would be more like comparing Moldanado to Aaron of 1955 vs Asron of 1975. Long past his prime.

Don't forget, quite a bit of O&A rants have come after playing a clip of Howie saying something totally ridiculous, which tends to be quite a bit as of late.
 
Re: In semi-defense of XM

> > > O&A fans are tired of Howard. > >
> >
> > I think both Howard and O&A can be very funny at times and
>
> > boring at other times; but imagine how hard it is to put
> on
> > a four or five hour show every day that is constantly
> funny
> > and entertaining...Leno and Letterman have trouble with
> just
> > an hour a night! And of course humor is always a matter of
>
> > personal taste and preference.
> >
> > > What does the Underground Garage play?>>
> >
> > They play "garage rock", straight-ahead 4/4 guitar-driven
> > rock n' roll, usually no guitar solos and always simple
> > catchy melodies. Examples would be anything from Paul
> Revere
> > & the Radiers and the Kingsmen to the Chesterfield Kings
> and
> > the Hives.
> >
>
> Ah, the days before the solo...always nice!!

> While O&A may have built up their fan support somewhat at XM, I know for a fact that XM was dissappointed in the numbers they brought in and also changed from having to pay for O&A to being a free part of the service. People did not flock to XM for O&A like they did for Stern- O&A happen to be a much smaller factor in XM gaining subscribers than Stern was for Sirius- and that is a fact. And, Im not a fan of either O&A or Stern, but I do know who has more public awareness and clout. Far more people in the USA know who Stern is than O&A.
>
 
> > [XM's oldies channels seem to re-create the old-style
> music
> > stations a little better, mainly because of the jingles
> and
> > more DJ banter. They even had a show "hosted" by the late
> > Wolfman Jack, using old clips. XM offers a 40's and 90's
> > channel true to the decades they represent, something
> Sirius
> > doesn't offer unless you count The Pulse, which, as has
> been
> > pointed out here is actually Hot AC. On the other hand,
> > Sirius has BBC 1 and Underground Garage.]
>
>
> XM seems to be miles ahead in what I call "theme" Oldies
> programming. Their '50s channel has Pink & Black Days,
> Harlem, Rockabilly Road Trip, Cool Bobby B, The Strip, and
> Dave's Hollywood Diner. From what I can see, Sirius only
> has Cousin Brucie and a Doo Wop show on Sunday nights (and
> the all-Elvis channel, of course).
>
I'm not an XM subscriber so I can not comment on their Oldies programming vs Sirius. But as you noted regarding Sirius,in addition to Cousin Brucie and the Do Wop Show, Norm N Nite broadcasts from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland Wed - Sun. It's not a theme show; just a very intelligent Oldies show.
 
Re: In semi-defense of XM

> > Your assessment of O & A sound dillusional. It's easy to
> > take shots at the #1 radio broadcaster.
> >
> > Occasionally Howard will claim that people "stole his
> > ideas." Some are true, others are exaggerations.
> > Nevertheless, at least Howard made big enough of an impact
>
> > to have his ideas "stolen"
> >
> > Opie & Anthony are two never-have-been's who copied
> Howard's
> > blueprint and fell flat on their faces doing so. 95% of
> the
> > United States does not know who Opie and Anthony are, and
> > most of the 5% who do know them, couldn't give a damn.
> >
> > And I love it how those two take shots at Howard for
> trying
> > to be hip. Last time I checked Opie and Anthony were
> > approaching their late 40's...Not exactly the MTV crowd
> > either...
> >
> > Comparing Howard to O & A is like comparing Barry Bonds to
>
> > Candy Maldonado
> >
>
>
> I fail to see the correlation between your reply and my
> post. yeah, they do take shots at Howard in his boy scout
> uniform and his hip-hop clothing look on a 55 year old man.
> From what I can remember, yes, O&A are in their early to mid
> 40s. But then again, they don't attempt to BE the Mtv
> crowd. They also, on MULTIPLE occasions, give Howie his
> due. But they also mention that Howie isn't Howie anymore.
> This is not the early 90s.
>
> In regards to your O&A never-have-been issue, it seems that
> their former employer saw something that you don't. After
> their "Sam" firing, they were GOING to be released but the
> company had an about-face and chose to keep them hidden for
> the remainder of their contract. Why? They had a job offer
> almost immediatly from the competing station across the
> street. No Howie-instructed gag order, no being 2nd fiddle
> to Howard...straight head-to-head syndicated competition
> with the King Shcok Jock himself. They would have been on
> the air again within a week. Howie and the company didn't
> want that. But if they were as bad as you've made them
> sound, open competition should have been welcomed with wide
> open arms.
>
> Let's also note that Howard had 15 months to hype SIRIUS and
> has managed to only bring over about 10% of his audience.
> O&A have had just over a year, after over two years of
> exile, to build an audience. In that time, they have built
> an audience from practically zero, to a larger listening
> audience than Howie. A better baseball analogy would be
> more like comparing Moldanado to Aaron of 1955 vs Asron of
> 1975. Long past his prime.
>
> Don't forget, quite a bit of O&A rants have come after
> playing a clip of Howie saying something totally ridiculous,
> which tends to be quite a bit as of late.
>
I think the reason for the above rant was because the original post on this thread basically said "Stern vs. O&A, different shows for different people." You then went on to basically say you disagreed with that, basically making it sound like he said 25 cents was worth as much as $1. You like O&A, can't stand Stern, some people are opposite. To bring up a fight like that in the middle of a thread where thas was no controversy is just going to bring in a long, fighting thread between the two set of fans.
 
Re: In semi-defense of XM

> > While O&A may have built up their fan support somewhat at
> XM, I know for a fact that XM was dissappointed in the
> numbers they brought in and also changed from having to pay
> for O&A to being a free part of the service. People did
> not flock to XM for O&A like they did for Stern- O&A
> happen to be a much smaller factor in XM gaining
> subscribers than Stern was for Sirius- and that is a fact.
> And, Im not a fan of either O&A or Stern, but I do know who
> has more public awareness and clout. Far more people in the
> USA know who Stern is than O&A.
> >
>

Accordig to O&A and Eric Logan, that wasn't the case, that Eric Logan said their numbers were great, one of the most listened to shows on XM, and according to Opie, O&A have hit their projected/expected numbers. Their contract is from year to year, no long term deal yet...XM was stil weary because of the Sex for Sam thing. Of course, if they are lying, and playing on the same hypocritical level as Howard, I'd like to have proof. I am not calling you out at all. I am just saying that if it is true and in direct conflict with what O&A have led me to believe, I will happily drop XM altogether since I can no longer just drop them and save a buck or two. I would be a hypocrite if I hated Howard about his hypocritical number claims and stand by O&A who are making the same claims.

But in thier defense, Anthony and Jim just bought houses and Opie put money up to be a silent partner in his brother's restaurant. Things all three of them have said they wouldn't even attempt if the numbers didn't look good, if they weren't hitting their expected numbers and they were in fear of their yearly contracts were in jeopardy of not being renewed.
 
Re: In semi-defense of XM

> > > While O&A may have built up their fan support somewhat
> at
> > XM, I know for a fact that XM was dissappointed in the
> > numbers they brought in and also changed from having to
> pay
> > for O&A to being a free part of the service. People did
> > not flock to XM for O&A like they did for Stern- O&A
> > happen to be a much smaller factor in XM gaining
> > subscribers than Stern was for Sirius- and that is a fact.
>
> > And, Im not a fan of either O&A or Stern, but I do know
> who
> > has more public awareness and clout. Far more people in
> the
> > USA know who Stern is than O&A.
> > >
> >
>
> Accordig to O&A and Eric Logan, that wasn't the case, that
> Eric Logan said their numbers were great, one of the most
> listened to shows on XM, and according to Opie, O&A have hit
> their projected/expected numbers. Their contract is from
> year to year, no long term deal yet...XM was stil weary
> because of the Sex for Sam thing. Of course, if they are
> lying, and playing on the same hypocritical level as Howard,
> I'd like to have proof. I am not calling you out at all. I
> am just saying that if it is true and in direct conflict
> with what O&A have led me to believe, I will happily drop XM
> altogether since I can no longer just drop them and save a
> buck or two. I would be a hypocrite if I hated Howard about
> his hypocritical number claims and stand by O&A who are
> making the same claims.
>
> But in thier defense, Anthony and Jim just bought houses and
> Opie put money up to be a silent partner in his brother's
> restaurant. Things all three of them have said they
> wouldn't even attempt if the numbers didn't look good, if
> they weren't hitting their expected numbers and they were in
> fear of their yearly contracts were in jeopardy of not being
> renewed.
>

>> Sure, they have a goood contract and have a loyal fan base- but fact is before XM O&A fan base was mostly centered back in NE USA, the vast majority of American never heard them or knew about them. And if they were so popular when they first came to XM, for pay/premium channel, XM wouldn't have made them free. Making them free was to get more subs to hear them...the pay portion never worked out. Stern simply is a household word and known all across the country- he brought huge numbers to Sirius- over 65% this holiday season said he was the #1 reason they got Sirius. O&A never had results like that. If you think 65% of XM subs got it for them, youre fooling yourself and I have bridge to sell to you.<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by AZJoe on 02/25/06 05:45 AM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: In semi-defense of XM

> > > > While O&A may have built up their fan support
> somewhat
> > at
> > > XM, I know for a fact that XM was dissappointed in the
> > > numbers they brought in and also changed from having to
>
> > pay
> > > for O&A to being a free part of the service. People
> did
> > > not flock to XM for O&A like they did for Stern- O&A
>
> > > happen to be a much smaller factor in XM gaining
> > > subscribers than Stern was for Sirius- and that is a
> fact.
> >
> > > And, Im not a fan of either O&A or Stern, but I do know
>
> > who
> > > has more public awareness and clout. Far more people in
>
> > the
> > > USA know who Stern is than O&A.
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > Accordig to O&A and Eric Logan, that wasn't the case, that
>
> > Eric Logan said their numbers were great, one of the most
> > listened to shows on XM, and according to Opie, O&A have
> hit
> > their projected/expected numbers. Their contract is from
> > year to year, no long term deal yet...XM was stil weary
> > because of the Sex for Sam thing. Of course, if they are
> > lying, and playing on the same hypocritical level as
> Howard,
> > I'd like to have proof. I am not calling you out at all.
> I
> > am just saying that if it is true and in direct conflict
> > with what O&A have led me to believe, I will happily drop
> XM
> > altogether since I can no longer just drop them and save a
>
> > buck or two. I would be a hypocrite if I hated Howard
> about
> > his hypocritical number claims and stand by O&A who are
> > making the same claims.
> >
> > But in thier defense, Anthony and Jim just bought houses
> and
> > Opie put money up to be a silent partner in his brother's
> > restaurant. Things all three of them have said they
> > wouldn't even attempt if the numbers didn't look good, if
> > they weren't hitting their expected numbers and they were
> in
> > fear of their yearly contracts were in jeopardy of not
> being
> > renewed.
> >
>
> >> Sure, they have a goood contract and have a loyal fan
> base- but fact is before XM O&A fan base was mostly
> centered back in NE USA, the vast majority of American
> never heard them or knew about them. And if they were so
> popular when they first came to XM, for pay/premium
> channel, XM wouldn't have made them free. Making them free
> was to get more subs to hear them...the pay portion never
> worked out. Stern simply is a household word and known all
> across the country- he brought huge numbers to Sirius-
> over 65% this holiday season said he was the #1 reason
> they got Sirius. O&A never had results like that. If
> you think 65% of XM subs got it for them, youre fooling
> yourself and I have bridge to sell to you.
>


Can you please find, cut, paste and email me where I said that 65% sub issue about O&A. I seem to be hard pressed to find it. Oh, btw, Howard had such a huge influence that SIRIUS only out sold XM by 250,000 net subs over their biggest push period, the 4th quarter. I would be interested though in how many of these net subs were vehicle related. Did Howard have a huge push for SIRIUS in 2006? Only an idiot wouldn't think so. I never would think that O&A would have had much of a bang in XM sales...especially after 2+ years in exile.
 
Re: In semi-defense of XM

As this thread has turned into a KoAM vs. O&A discussion, I will add my observation. Stern has given Sirius a tremendous amount of name recognition. No passenger in my taxi has ever asked about O&A on XM.

Four years ago, no one knew about satellite radio.
Three years ago, they would ask if I had XM in my cab.
Two years ago, they would ask whether I had XM or Sirius.
For more than a year, they have asked if I have Sirius.
Now, they ask if I have "the one with Howard Stern".

In the beginning, I always gave a generic reply, it is satellite radio.
Then, I started specifying that I have XM.
People's next question naturally follows, "Do you like it?"
My response: "I had the service for three years and then prepaid five years to lock in their old rate".<P ID="signature">______________
Proud 2 B a pioneering satellite radio subs¢riber
Ai4i is always on the trailing edge of technology
______________</P>
 
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