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"Yes Virginia, there's such a thing as OLD SCHOOL HIPHOP.."

P

PuertoRicanSoul

I've decided to break my silence on this board to weigh in on this JACK-FM nonsense and how we're supposed to believe that this station IS tailored to NYC musical styles...but I have one question...

Tell me tell me...

What form of exorcism took root in these radio consultants' minds to believe that JACK-FM can get away with pretending that old school hip-hop/electro and house music is just some demented urban legend?

And before the Bubbas and the Todds of this forum come out whining about HOT 97 and POWER 105 "already" filling that void, take a look at what your birth certificate says...make sure it lists one of the 5 boroughs as your birthplace before you answer that. More importantly, make sure you have a thorough history of the birth and evolution of NYC hiphop and dance before touting HOT 97 and POWER 105 as prominent broadcasters of old school hiphop/electro. My friends, old school DOES NOT mean "Juicy" by Notorious BIG.

There was a time when the rock format was considered tenured and diversified enough to warrant quite a bit of spinoff formats like AOR, Active Rock, Alternative, Classic Rock, Soft Rock, even the short-lived "chick-rock" format. Maybe old school hiphop/electro/dance history outside the 5 boroughs is neglible, however no explanation can hold up to why we don't have at least ONE full-service old school HIPHOP formatted station....

...or at least a radio station willing to play "Release Yourself" by the Aleems after "Let's Dance" by David Bowie and preceded by "Me Myself & I" by De La Soul.

Unless you were born here or spent a significant part of your upbringing in late '70s thru early-mid '90s New York, I wouldn't expect anyone to understand this idea one bit. And those that still don't get it...think 92-KTU, 98.7 Kiss FM (from 1982 through 1994) and WBLS (from the late 1970s through 1993).
 
i may not have been born in nyc. not do i live there now (i did live there for several years though) and fully agree regarding an old school hip hop dance station. theres enough music from 1980 - ??? to play and not have to play "the breaks" once an hour.

here's a good reason to have one: there is oldies, classic rock, ac stations that play 70's and 80's... basicly there's stations for older music for every format EXCEPT hip hop. obviously people listen to hip hop becuase the format is huge in alot of markets.

i am 25 years old and would love a station that played everything from heavy d and the boys to salt n peppa to joe public to run dmc to swv... thats the music i gre up listening to.

why is it my dad gre up listening to niel sedaka, the 4 tops and jefferison airplane and he has a station... my mom gre up listening to john denver, ann murray, abba and she has a station... my aunt gre up listening to kiss, ccr and aerosmith and she has a station...


WHERES MY STATION?????
 
> I've decided to break my silence on this board to weigh in
> on this JACK-FM nonsense and how we're supposed to believe
> that this station IS tailored to NYC musical styles...but I
> have one question...
>
> Tell me tell me...
>
> What form of exorcism took root in these radio consultants'
> minds to believe that JACK-FM can get away with pretending
> that old school hip-hop/electro and house music is just some
> demented urban legend?
>
> And before the Bubbas and the Todds of this forum come out
> whining about HOT 97 and POWER 105 "already" filling that
> void, take a look at what your birth certificate says...make
> sure it lists one of the 5 boroughs as your birthplace
> before you answer that. More importantly, make sure you
> have a thorough history of the birth and evolution of NYC
> hiphop and dance before touting HOT 97 and POWER 105 as
> prominent broadcasters of old school hiphop/electro. My
> friends, old school DOES NOT mean "Juicy" by Notorious BIG.
>
> There was a time when the rock format was considered tenured
> and diversified enough to warrant quite a bit of spinoff
> formats like AOR, Active Rock, Alternative, Classic Rock,
> Soft Rock, even the short-lived "chick-rock" format. Maybe
> old school hiphop/electro/dance history outside the 5
> boroughs is neglible, however no explanation can hold up to
> why we don't have at least ONE full-service old school
> HIPHOP formatted station....
>
> ...or at least a radio station willing to play "Release
> Yourself" by the Aleems after "Let's Dance" by David Bowie
> and preceded by "Me Myself & I" by De La Soul.
>
> Unless you were born here or spent a significant part of
> your upbringing in late '70s thru early-mid '90s New York, I
> wouldn't expect anyone to understand this idea one bit. And
> those that still don't get it...think 92-KTU, 98.7 Kiss FM
> (from 1982 through 1994) and WBLS (from the late 1970s
> through 1993).
>





PuertoRicanSoul:

What is "Chick-Rock" or better known as , "Chicken Rock"?

Either WWPR-FM or WQHT should add more Classic Rap (Hip-Hop) to their rotation. And they should have nothing to lose by exposing their 12-24 listeners to the sounds of the Sugar Hill Gang, Curtis Blow, Grand Master Flash & the Furious Five and their like.




Thanks,<P ID="signature">______________
Kevin L. Sealy</P>
 
You and I have agreed on this subject for quite some time.
I'm no program director but could have told you that this JACK thing was destine to fail from the beginning. JACK is NOT NYC!

Welcome back PRS!
 
NYC would be the place.

If it can be done anywhere, NYC would be the place. Unfortunately, that would take a lot of creativity, intelligence, and passion for it to fly. Good luck finding management with the balls to do it.

However, thinking about it, I brought my Tommy Boy CDs and jammed the whole ride home.

There is a very good old school station in Sacramento, California (http://www.v1011fm.com/main.html). They are not Jammin' Oldies but they don't play Electro either, at least not when I have listened.

Thanks.
 
> What form of exorcism took root in these radio consultants'
> minds to believe that JACK-FM can get away with pretending
> that old school hip-hop/electro and house music is just some
> demented urban legend?
>
At the very inception of the Jack format I did hear them play "Fight the Power" by Public Enemy at least once, but haven't heard any old school hip hop, with the exception of the practically obligatory hit "Rapper's Paradise", since then. Since a song like "Me, Myself and I" was a hit back in '89, they could conceivably play it, along with hits by Run-DMC and LL Cool J.
 
Great post! You know, I wouldn't be too surprised if they test out the exact type of format you've suggested on HD-2. From there, who knows - it would be awesome to see a station like 107.5 WBLS take on this approach.
 
Puerto Rican Soul,

I have been in FULL support with your concept of an R&B/hip-hop "equivalent" of a Mix 102.7. Just like you said, the sounds of Kiss/'BLS from the 80's up to the early 90's. The old skool jams like the Aleems, Raw Silk, Loose Ends with Grandmaster Flash, DeLaSoul and other crossovers that worked such as David Bowie, Yazz in a format...when you posted this the first time, it just took me! So much so that I did talk to David Hinckley (NY Daily News) about this concept. Nothing was ever published about it but he did find it very interesting! I've also talked about your concept at my job and I haven't heard anyone say "it sucks!" Matter of, they WISH some station would do this now!

This is definitely another format that HD-2 should consider...definitely Kiss or BLS in this case. Without question this format is SO "New York" that it works..although Philly could do something similar based on what Power 99 played back "in the days". And even though it was a conventional sound back then...for HD-2, this is a perfect example of "non-conventional" programming designed to hook people into HD-2...sell units, etc.

I will back you up with this concept!

TONY SANTIAGO (fellow boricua!)
 
Tony:

Respect due my Taino brotha..my bad about the hiatus...

Yeah man, I appreciate the support about my previous posts regarding this very concept, which I really don't think takes much creativity...it only takes a good memory, nothing else. And as we can see, the majority of the NYC radio industry apparently have a fatal case of Alzheimer's Disease.

What's sad about this is that people (both on this board and those out on the NY streets) actually DO think this concept would work..almost as though they're not 100% sure. Why this remains a complex fantasy is beyond my comprehension. Truly, this is a no-brainer....I mean, how in the world can NYC-centric old school electro/hiphop/dance not find a NYC home on the radio dial...meanwhile, obscure '80s album-rock songs that enjoyed sporadic airplay in Sioux Falls, Iowa becomes a station format?

I'm glad that David Hinckley has gotten wind of our gripes here, but with most of us who grew up on this music being that coveted age demographic, there's no excuse for there NOT being a station to fill this sick void.

Being that MIX 102.7 is SOOOMEWHAT in the direction of where we'd like it to go, it would be interesting to see how a playlist expansion into 80s hiphop and electro would impact Kiss and BLS. Boy would that be something, being that Kiss and BLS once played quality hiphop, dance, and electro until 1994...now they pretend that 80s hiphop didn't exist.



> Puerto Rican Soul,
>
> I have been in FULL support with your concept of an
> R&B/hip-hop "equivalent" of a Mix 102.7. Just like you
> said, the sounds of Kiss/'BLS from the 80's up to the early
> 90's. The old skool jams like the Aleems, Raw Silk, Loose
> Ends with Grandmaster Flash, DeLaSoul and other crossovers
> that worked such as David Bowie, Yazz in a format...when you
> posted this the first time, it just took me! So much so
> that I did talk to David Hinckley (NY Daily News) about this
> concept. Nothing was ever published about it but he did
> find it very interesting! I've also talked about your
> concept at my job and I haven't heard anyone say "it sucks!"
> Matter of, they WISH some station would do this now!
>
> This is definitely another format that HD-2 should
> consider...definitely Kiss or BLS in this case. Without
> question this format is SO "New York" that it
> works..although Philly could do something similar based on
> what Power 99 played back "in the days". And even though it
> was a conventional sound back then...for HD-2, this is a
> perfect example of "non-conventional" programming designed
> to hook people into HD-2...sell units, etc.
>
> I will back you up with this concept!
>
> TONY SANTIAGO (fellow boricua!)
>
 
Jeffrey:

Thanks for the welcome, man..

My experience as a program director is probably less than yours, but we both know what NYC radio needs and what is long overdue. All I should say at this point is JACK-FM should have borrowed MY iPod since they said that we can liken 101.1 as 'your personal iPod on the radio.'

With that last sentence, is it out of line to report Infinity to the Better Business Bureau for false/misleading advertising on that gimmick about sounding like 'your iPod?'

I will continue to post comments and/or articles about this issue until the right eyes and ears get a clue. Because there's no reason why I shouldn't be able to hear songs like the Fearless Four's "Rockin It" alongside Peech Boys' "Don't Make Me Wait" on the same radio station.


> You and I have agreed on this subject for quite some time.
> I'm no program director but could have told you that this
> JACK thing was destine to fail from the beginning. JACK is
> NOT NYC!
>
> Welcome back PRS!
>
 
> > I've decided to break my silence on this board to weigh in
>
> > on this JACK-FM nonsense and how we're supposed to believe
>
> > that this station IS tailored to NYC musical styles...but
> I
> > have one question...
> >
> > Tell me tell me...
> >
> > What form of exorcism took root in these radio
> consultants'
> > minds to believe that JACK-FM can get away with pretending
>
> > that old school hip-hop/electro and house music is just
> some
> > demented urban legend?
> >
> > And before the Bubbas and the Todds of this forum come out
>
> > whining about HOT 97 and POWER 105 "already" filling that
> > void, take a look at what your birth certificate
> says...make
> > sure it lists one of the 5 boroughs as your birthplace
> > before you answer that. More importantly, make sure you
> > have a thorough history of the birth and evolution of NYC
> > hiphop and dance before touting HOT 97 and POWER 105 as
> > prominent broadcasters of old school hiphop/electro. My
> > friends, old school DOES NOT mean "Juicy" by Notorious
> BIG.
> >
> > There was a time when the rock format was considered
> tenured
> > and diversified enough to warrant quite a bit of spinoff
> > formats like AOR, Active Rock, Alternative, Classic Rock,
> > Soft Rock, even the short-lived "chick-rock" format.
> Maybe
> > old school hiphop/electro/dance history outside the 5
> > boroughs is neglible, however no explanation can hold up
> to
> > why we don't have at least ONE full-service old school
> > HIPHOP formatted station....
> >
> > ...or at least a radio station willing to play "Release
> > Yourself" by the Aleems after "Let's Dance" by David Bowie
>
> > and preceded by "Me Myself & I" by De La Soul.
> >
> > Unless you were born here or spent a significant part of
> > your upbringing in late '70s thru early-mid '90s New York,
> I
> > wouldn't expect anyone to understand this idea one bit.
> And
> > those that still don't get it...think 92-KTU, 98.7 Kiss FM
>
> > (from 1982 through 1994) and WBLS (from the late 1970s
> > through 1993).
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> PuertoRicanSoul:
>
> What is "Chick-Rock" or better known as , "Chicken Rock"?
>
> Either WWPR-FM or WQHT should add more Classic Rap (Hip-Hop)
> to their rotation. And they should have nothing to lose by
> exposing their 12-24 listeners to the sounds of the Sugar
> Hill Gang, Curtis Blow, Grand Master Flash & the Furious
> Five and their like.
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>

Back in the mid-90s, a rash of "She's Only Rock & Roll" stations came out in certain parts of the country. All tried to mimic the glory days of WSHE-FM in Miami, by branding themselves as a "female-rock" station...but it lasted about as long as the "Jammin Oldies" craze. They billed this format, albeit loosely, as "chick rock."

Hip-hop music has proven its ability to stick around, although many of us might question the direction it has taken since its inception some 30+ years ago. Therefore, it's far too vast for a radio station like HOT 97 that concentrates on new hiphop to be more inclusive of old school hiphop. And plus, being that HOT 97 in its current format has only been around for as long as the commercialization of hiphop has, I think BLS and Kiss would be the better candidates to play old school hiphop. Let's not forget that those 2 stations were the first commercial stations in New York that embraced hiphop music.
 
> i may not have been born in nyc. not do i live there now (i
> did live there for several years though) and fully agree
> regarding an old school hip hop dance station. theres enough
> music from 1980 - ??? to play and not have to play "the
> breaks" once an hour.
>
> here's a good reason to have one: there is oldies, classic
> rock, ac stations that play 70's and 80's... basicly there's
> stations for older music for every format EXCEPT hip hop.
> obviously people listen to hip hop becuase the format is
> huge in alot of markets.
>
> i am 25 years old and would love a station that played
> everything from heavy d and the boys to salt n peppa to joe
> public to run dmc to swv... thats the music i gre up
> listening to.
>
> why is it my dad gre up listening to niel sedaka, the 4 tops
> and jefferison airplane and he has a station... my mom gre
> up listening to john denver, ann murray, abba and she has a
> station... my aunt gre up listening to kiss, ccr and
> aerosmith and she has a station...
>
>
> WHERES MY STATION?????
>

Well said, I rest my case.....for now. In plain english, you captured my sentiments. Thanks.
 
> What is "Chick-Rock" or better known as , "Chicken Rock"?
>

Think the Lilith Fair tours, Sheryl Crow, and the gang. It was often called Chick rock or by some even Lesbian Rock or Lesbian Pop.<P ID="signature">______________
Can I sleep now?</P>
 
EXCELLENT LEAD OFF POST. One that echoes in the top 10 markets of the country, not the podunks. Chicago had been living in denial that white people listened to black music/dance music for years. They tried to keep it down but it never worked. Acting as if the hip 25-44 year olds don't know Kool Moe Dee, LL, Soul Sonic Force and other huge hits that [maybe] that demo didn't know when released surely know them now that they've been played on urban old school shows through the years, in movies, tv shows, commercials and they're no longer "black radio" records. They have a mass cross demo appeal ESPECIALLY IN NYC.

The problem is this. Jack is programmed as a friend of mine calls it "The geek white boy school of programming". That school believes that everyone grew up absent to urban music but listened to INXS, The Eurythmics and other 80s bands with some 70s pop and played out walking wounded classic rock all the time. While there's nothing wrong with all of it, there's nothing interesting about it either, it's as cliche', played out and predictable as today's hip hop/x-over. It lacks so much and for a format that claims to play "variety" they limit their variety. The only variety I've seen on their logs it their tempos, they're all over the place, their genres, their flow IS ALL NON EXISTANT. Going from C+C Music Factory to Foghat is enough to cause you to cough up a lung! The geek white boy school of programming was something I learned from a friend of mine who's white and it made all the sense in the world. Many programmers are afraid to play too much uptempo, bright or happy songs in a row. When I was in radio, I never was but it seems like many are. They're also afraid to play two songs by an urban flavored artist, even those accepted by white folks and that's the geek white boy school of programming. Complete lack of understanding of what people will listen to.

The lack of massive x-over hits and even hits that white folks discovered years after they were hits like Parliament, Carl Carlton, Gap Band etc is evidence that those in control are on a white boy powertrip. Where's E,W&F? Isleys? Ohio Players? T.O.P., nowhere near (if even) as frequent as the old rehashed (BLEEP) heard on every other lameass tired offering on the radio today. Now, not only is it all on one station, it's assembled in a way that pushes you further away rather than lures you in even more. I was at a dinner/awards show a few weeks ago and a consultant (one who's name I'll avoid printing to save him from ridicule) told me that a station playing "You Dropped A Bomb On Me" followed by something like "I'll Take You There" by The Staple Singers or "Wiggle It" by Two In A Room would give the perception that they're an oldies station or even a black station. Now, last time I checked:

1) Today's CHR features mostly African-American artists and yet no one thinks Kiss FM's are black radio stations but I wouldn't want to wake the poor guy out of his coma with that.

2) You Dropped A Bomb On Me hasn't been played on urban radio nearly as much as it has at every white person's wedding in the last 20 years and yet a white guy responsible for programming radio stations lives with this belief everyday.

I guess playing David Bowie's "Fame" followed by "I Knew You Were Waiting" Aretha and GM is considered.... ???? How does one get a job in radio these days with such flawed, twisted demented logic? Simple, it's their input, their tastes, their beliefs and it's that reason they're drooling over a 2 share these days as opposed to a 6 share back in the day. Mediocrity and lack of intelligence is guiding these sinking ships and it's evident in the mess you're hearing day in and day out.

Too many testosterone filled guys who pat each other on the backs at conventions and hump their own legs are programming radio today. They're their biggest fans. Many don't understand the heritage of the markets in which they're in. And they wonder why they're falling on deaf ears. Here in Chicago it's the same problem. NO UNDERSTANDING OF THE HERITAGE WITHIN THE MARKET THEY'RE SERVING. What's really scary is that they think they're offering the greatest thing since sliced bread. Now you can certainly see and understand why radio is fast becoming second fiddle to all the other products and technology people have available to them can't you?

They need to thank their lucky stars everyday they're still alive that de-reg allowed them to stay in business because if they had to know what they were doing, they'd all be toast.

> I've decided to break my silence on this board to weigh in
> on this JACK-FM nonsense and how we're supposed to believe
> that this station IS tailored to NYC musical styles...but I
> have one question...
>
> Tell me tell me...
>
> What form of exorcism took root in these radio consultants'
> minds to believe that JACK-FM can get away with pretending
> that old school hip-hop/electro and house music is just some
> demented urban legend?
>
> And before the Bubbas and the Todds of this forum come out
> whining about HOT 97 and POWER 105 "already" filling that
> void, take a look at what your birth certificate says...make
> sure it lists one of the 5 boroughs as your birthplace
> before you answer that. More importantly, make sure you
> have a thorough history of the birth and evolution of NYC
> hiphop and dance before touting HOT 97 and POWER 105 as
> prominent broadcasters of old school hiphop/electro. My
> friends, old school DOES NOT mean "Juicy" by Notorious BIG.
>
> There was a time when the rock format was considered tenured
> and diversified enough to warrant quite a bit of spinoff
> formats like AOR, Active Rock, Alternative, Classic Rock,
> Soft Rock, even the short-lived "chick-rock" format. Maybe
> old school hiphop/electro/dance history outside the 5
> boroughs is neglible, however no explanation can hold up to
> why we don't have at least ONE full-service old school
> HIPHOP formatted station....
>
> ...or at least a radio station willing to play "Release
> Yourself" by the Aleems after "Let's Dance" by David Bowie
> and preceded by "Me Myself & I" by De La Soul.
>
> Unless you were born here or spent a significant part of
> your upbringing in late '70s thru early-mid '90s New York, I
> wouldn't expect anyone to understand this idea one bit. And
> those that still don't get it...think 92-KTU, 98.7 Kiss FM
> (from 1982 through 1994) and WBLS (from the late 1970s
> through 1993).
>
 
Not to mention Boogie Down Bronx or Watch The Closing Doors

> Jeffrey:
>
> Thanks for the welcome, man..
>
> My experience as a program director is probably less than
> yours, but we both know what NYC radio needs and what is
> long overdue. All I should say at this point is JACK-FM
> should have borrowed MY iPod since they said that we can
> liken 101.1 as 'your personal iPod on the radio.'
>
> With that last sentence, is it out of line to report
> Infinity to the Better Business Bureau for false/misleading
> advertising on that gimmick about sounding like 'your iPod?'
>
>
> I will continue to post comments and/or articles about this
> issue until the right eyes and ears get a clue. Because
> there's no reason why I shouldn't be able to hear songs like
> the Fearless Four's "Rockin It" alongside Peech Boys' "Don't
> Make Me Wait" on the same radio station.
>
>
> > You and I have agreed on this subject for quite some time.
>
> > I'm no program director but could have told you that this
> > JACK thing was destine to fail from the beginning. JACK is
>
> > NOT NYC!
> >
> > Welcome back PRS!
> >
>
 
Progammers miss the beat

I'm a white guy having grown up in Manhattan in the 80's with no black or latin roots yet this classic hip, hop and r&b is what I grew up listening to in this city. It is NYC's heritage music.

MusicloverII said it best when he wrote, programmers come into a market without understanding the musical heritage of the city their programming in.

There is nothing like the sound of a well programmed local radio station but with the exception of perhaps 2 stations in New York, music is better of listened to on MP3 players or satellite.
 
> The lack of massive x-over hits and even hits that white
> folks discovered years after they were hits like Parliament,
> Carl Carlton, Gap Band etc is evidence that those in control
> are on a white boy powertrip. Where's E,W&F? Isleys? Ohio
> Players? T.O.P., nowhere near (if even) as frequent as the
> old rehashed (BLEEP) heard on every other lameass tired
> offering on the radio today. Now, not only is it all on one
> station, it's assembled in a way that pushes you further
> away rather than lures you in even more. I was at a
> dinner/awards show a few weeks ago and a consultant (one
> who's name I'll avoid printing to save him from ridicule)
> told me that a station playing "You Dropped A Bomb On Me"
> followed by something like "I'll Take You There" by The
> Staple Singers or "Wiggle It" by Two In A Room would give
> the perception that they're an oldies station or even a
> black station. Now, last time I checked:
>
> I guess playing David Bowie's "Fame" followed by "I Knew You
> Were Waiting" Aretha and GM is considered.... ???? How does
> one get a job in radio these days with such flawed, twisted
> demented logic? Simple, it's their input, their tastes,
> their beliefs and it's that reason they're drooling over a 2
> share these days as opposed to a 6 share back in the day.
> Mediocrity and lack of intelligence is guiding these sinking
> ships and it's evident in the mess you're hearing day in and
> day out.

Go visit www.zapoleon.com for the details on Rhythm & Gold, hopefully coming soon to a station near you! While admittedly we don't play much in the way of "Old School Hip-Hop," those two segues you mention in your previous paragraphs are a common occurrence in our format. And we consider EWF, the Ohio Players, and 30 years of the Isley Brothers to be staples of our playlist.

Our general rule is, "If it aired on the radio in the day, and you can dance or make love to it, we play it."

:)

Anita Bonita
www.rhythmandgold.com
 
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