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Yet another JACK FM post... There's really 2 issues here

Before I begin, I say this with the utmost honesty, and apologize in advance if this post offends anyone. It should not, but with anything, one never knows.

This afternoon after my last post, I was thinking about this whole Jack versus CBS FM war, and all the posts that have been written about it, and I realized that there is a confusion of issues behind why many are unhappy with Jack. In fact, there are really 2 different concerns at work here. One of them is valid and strong. The other is much weaker. One of them is mine, one of them is not, and knowing which one is the winning position, is the answer to having a strong argument for or against it.

Issue #1, CBS FM as a Great radio staion.
There are some of us who are unhappy about Jack, not necessarily because of the music choice, but because of the choice of formatic (not the same as format) on the station. By this, I am talking about doing away with the "CBS FM" name, jingles and jocks, for the "JACK FM" concept, which has no jocks, and mimizes the WCBS FM identity that was so much a part of New York City and of radio history for so long. This issue really has less to do with music selection, since most of the songs on JACK FM would largely be considered Oldies as well. True, they are not the sort of 50's and 60's music that the "Oldies" format became known for. However, by and large, this is newer music that many Oldies station will have to come to terms with eventually, and it is not unusual for an Oldies station to play many of the 70's songs that show up on a JACK FM playlist.

Now, on that position, I don't think there is much disagreement. It's a position that has nothing to do with traditional Oldies failing or succeeding. It is purely about the name of a great radio station that plays older music, that most contemporary stations stay away from. Yes, Jack does play some currents too. However, it has been established on this board previously, that WCBS FM has played currents in the past, so this is really nothing new.

Issue #2. No NYC "Traditional Oldies Oulet"
Here, there is a different group of us who are anti-Jack FM, not necessarily because of the loss of the famous branding, but because of the fact that it is not 50's and 60's Oldies. In that issue, it's about the fact that there is no station on FM in New York City now playing 50's and 60's music. The trouble is, this is really a different concern for some who wish to see 101.1 return to the CBS FM name. This is more about the type of "Oldies" rather than the type of station. It is also a very weak position to take because, as David will remind ou, (rightfully so), 50's and 60's music is not profitable anymore. It appeals to an older audience that advertisers are not interested in. They may spend more money, but they spend it less often, and for less new things. So, if you are arguing that CBS FM should come back because "there's no traditional oldies station in New York City," you are not helping your cause, and there is little chance of it happening, or of getting much sympathy from people like David who are knowledgeable about the research. I think some of those in that group (but not all), are more concerned about "50's and 60's" oldies, and less concerned with the name "CBS FM."

SO, NOW WHAT?
Ok, knowing that there's these two different streams of thought, here is what I propose. If we really want to get CBS FM back on the air as an "oldies" station, first, let us come to a concensus for what we mean by "oldies." I propose that by "oldies," we mean older music from the 70's, 80's, 90's, with some currents, and a couple of 60's sprinkled in, the kind of music Jack plays. I think CBS FM could play that music and it would be successful. The Oldies station where I live does not even touch 50's music, and is slowly moving away from 60's. I see no reason why it can not be done here.

Second, I propose that we all agree that what we really care about is the name and the dj's that were part of 101.1. The gripe is not really with the difference between the music of 101.1 now, and 101.1 then, but with the way it is being presented. That's the real issue we need to worry about here. Bring back dj's and jingles. It may not be Cousin Brucie, but as long as we have respectable dj's it will still be respectable. But replacing "CBS FM" with "Jack FM" is just a sour concept. Sour sour sour. It's like saying "I'm going to paint my 67 Mustang in purple and pink poka dots, because pink poka dots are in." It just does not work.

Now, some might say say: "Didn't CBS FM try 80's music before and it did not help?"
Well, yes. But I propose someting more radical. I propose the same playlist as Jack. I have no issue with Jack's music selection. It is the presentation that I (and I think a large group of us) are at issue with.

One more note. There may be a few of you who believe you belong to both groups above, who wish to have both "the doo-wap" music and the "CBS FM" name return. If you are in that group, I would ask you to re-think what is more important to you (name or music), and which is more likely to happen. I would suggest that if it is the "Traditional Oldies" that you are really concerned with, that you are maintaining a weak position, and that it is a very long shot.
 
> Before I begin, I say this with the utmost honesty, and
> apologize in advance if this post offends anyone. It should
> not, but with anything, one never knows.
>
> This afternoon after my last post, I was thinking about this
> whole Jack versus CBS FM war, and all the posts that have
> been written about it, and I realized that there is a
> confusion of issues behind why many are unhappy with Jack.
> In fact, there are really 2 different concerns at work here.
> One of them is valid and strong. The other is much weaker.
> One of them is mine, one of them is not, and knowing which
> one is the winning position, is the answer to having a
> strong argument for or against it.
>
> Issue #1, CBS FM as a Great radio staion.
> There are some of us who are unhappy about Jack, not
> necessarily because of the music choice, but because of the
> choice of formatic (not the same as format) on the station.
> By this, I am talking about doing away with the "CBS FM"
> name, jingles and jocks, for the "JACK FM" concept, which
> has no jocks, and mimizes the WCBS FM identity that was so
> much a part of New York City and of radio history for so
> long. This issue really has less to do with music selection,
> since most of the songs on JACK FM would largely be
> considered Oldies as well. True, they are not the sort of
> 50's and 60's music that the "Oldies" format became known
> for. However, by and large, this is newer music that many
> Oldies station will have to come to terms with eventually,
> and it is not unusual for an Oldies station to play many of
> the 70's songs that show up on a JACK FM playlist.
>
> Now, on that position, I don't think there is much
> disagreement. It's a position that has nothing to do with
> traditional Oldies failing or succeeding. It is purely about
> the name of a great radio station that plays older music,
> that most contemporary stations stay away from. Yes, Jack
> does play some currents too. However, it has been
> established on this board previously, that WCBS FM has
> played currents in the past, so this is really nothing new.
>
> Issue #2. No NYC "Traditional Oldies Oulet"
> Here, there is a different group of us who are anti-Jack FM,
> not necessarily because of the loss of the famous branding,
> but because of the fact that it is not 50's and 60's Oldies.
> In that issue, it's about the fact that there is no station
> on FM in New York City now playing 50's and 60's music. The
> trouble is, this is really a different concern for some who
> wish to see 101.1 return to the CBS FM name. This is more
> about the type of "Oldies" rather than the type of station.
> It is also a very weak position to take because, as David
> will remind ou, (rightfully so), 50's and 60's music is not
> profitable anymore. It appeals to an older audience that
> advertisers are not interested in. They may spend more
> money, but they spend it less often, and for less new
> things. So, if you are arguing that CBS FM should come back
> because "there's no traditional oldies station in New York
> City," you are not helping your cause, and there is little
> chance of it happening, or of getting much sympathy from
> people like David who are knowledgeable about the research.
> I think some of those in that group (but not all), are more
> concerned about "50's and 60's" oldies, and less concerned
> with the name "CBS FM."
>
> SO, NOW WHAT?
> Ok, knowing that there's these two different streams of
> thought, here is what I propose. If we really want to get
> CBS FM back on the air as an "oldies" station, first, let us
> come to a concensus for what we mean by "oldies." I propose
> that by "oldies," we mean older music from the 70's, 80's,
> 90's, with some currents, and a couple of 60's sprinkled in,
> the kind of music Jack plays. I think CBS FM could play that
> music and it would be successful. The Oldies station where I
> live does not even touch 50's music, and is slowly moving
> away from 60's. I see no reason why it can not be done here.
>
>
> Second, I propose that we all agree that what we really care
> about is the name and the dj's that were part of 101.1. The
> gripe is not really with the difference between the music of
> 101.1 now, and 101.1 then, but with the way it is being
> presented. That's the real issue we need to worry about
> here. Bring back dj's and jingles. It may not be Cousin
> Brucie, but as long as we have respectable dj's it will
> still be respectable. But replacing "CBS FM" with "Jack FM"
> is just a sour concept. Sour sour sour. It's like saying
> "I'm going to paint my 67 Mustang in purple and pink poka
> dots, because pink poka dots are in." It just does not work.
>
>
> Now, some might say say: "Didn't CBS FM try 80's music
> before and it did not help?"
> Well, yes. But I propose someting more radical. I propose
> the same playlist as Jack. I have no issue with Jack's music
> selection. It is the presentation that I (and I think a
> large group of us) are at issue with.
>
> One more note. There may be a few of you who believe you
> belong to both groups above, who wish to have both "the
> doo-wap" music and the "CBS FM" name return. If you are in
> that group, I would ask you to re-think what is more
> important to you (name or music), and which is more likely
> to happen. I would suggest that if it is the "Traditional
> Oldies" that you are really concerned with, that you are
> maintaining a weak position, and that it is a very long
> shot.
>


Wow. very well said and a good point!

JC
<P ID="signature">______________
"George Bush doesn't like Midgets"
NYC & CT Radio Lover
"KTU needs to change to a current dance format"
<IMG SRC=http://www.staticfiends.com/images/beavis-butthead.jpg width=200 height=170></P>
 
The poster makes good points, but I think someone who says the old WCBS-FM didn't need to be changed in any substantial has a very strong case. To wit:

In the fall 2004 ratings, WCBS was the best of all of Infinity's NYC stations in overall ratings, scoring a 3.5 to the 3.3's of WINS and WXRK. It did decline to a 3.0 before the swtich, but even then it was third in a 6 station stable, which is not too shabby. Now, WCBS, as Jack-Fm, is the WORST Infinity station in the market in overall ratings, scoring a 1.7. It's fall 2004 ratings have been halved in less than a year by this absurd formatting change.

I don't have the "coveted" young demographic numbers that execs seem to slobber for, but I don't think any performance in a single demo can justify that kind of overall slicing of listeners.

In most industries, a 50% decline in performance in a 12 month period causes heads to roll. It's even worse when the old product was doing serviceably well. There are no words to describe how badly Infinity miscalculated here.

As a Philadelphian, my one hope is that this has shameful performance by the new WCBS will scare them away from messing with WOGL.
 
>
> SO, NOW WHAT?
> Ok, knowing that there's these two different streams of
> thought, here is what I propose. If we really want to get
> CBS FM back on the air as an "oldies" station, first, let us
> come to a concensus for what we mean by "oldies." I propose
> that by "oldies," we mean older music from the 70's, 80's,
> 90's, with some currents, and a couple of 60's sprinkled in,
> the kind of music Jack plays.

With all due respect, this sounds like "Classic Rock" to me, something which I don't necssarily equate with oldies. I guesss the question is What's the difference between Classic Hits and Oldies, or is it all semantics?

Love your show,

"Bill in Binghamton"
 
> As a Philadelphian, my one hope is that this has shameful
> performance by the new WCBS will scare them away from
> messing with WOGL.
>

Tha fact that they were beaten to the punch with "Ben" saved WOGL's bacon.
 
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