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You got me thinking why does saul flip kgil all the time???

Even the suits don't do this why why why??? You need to give a format a change to grow and thrive and you can't do that with as often as saul blows it up!!! I swear does he just owns the station for fun and revenue is not the objective??? Just makes no sense. My first time living in los angeles was summer 2000 and it was adult standards and how many formats since??? Just seems like a waste.

Anyone know? Is saul just an odd duck?
 
It's been Standards more than anything else, but he doesn't stay with anything too long. I believe that Saul thinks that he can't really compete with the bigger companies and their bigger signals, so anytime one of the big boys change to a format that he's doing, he flips it. Although he did do talk with KGIL even when that format was over populated in LA. He likes to complain a lot about the bigger companies too. Maybe if David reads this he'll have a count and chronology of the formats that Saul has done with 1260. All I know is that if you're hired by Mt. Wilson Broadcasting, you're a much more temporary employee than those at other companies.
 
I have never worked for Saul, but I have worked for owners like Saul. Let me break it down:

  • Saul likes the prestige of being a "broadcaster" and has owned stations for many years.
  • So many years, in fact, that he remembers when a radio station license was also essentially a license to print money. (Those days are past, if there was any doubt.)
  • He is, however, essentially a skinflint. He will not invest in better facilities, promotion or better people in order to boost flagging revenue.
  • Therefore, he believes that spinning the Big Wheel O' Format will eventually result in hitting upon some magic combination of niche programming that is so irresistible that word of it will spread like wildfire.
  • He will then be able to rake in the money with no effort, while bragging to his buddies on the links that he "did it all himself".

Does that help any?

Cynical? Oh yes, I am. But I've been in this business way too long.

-- Doc
 
DoctorWu said:
I have never worked for Saul, but I have worked for owners like Saul. Let me break it down:

  • Saul likes the prestige of being a "broadcaster" and has owned stations for many years.
  • So many years, in fact, that he remembers when a radio station license was also essentially a license to print money. (Those days are past, if there was any doubt.)
  • He is, however, essentially a skinflint. He will not invest in better facilities, promotion or better people in order to boost flagging revenue.
  • Therefore, he believes that spinning the Big Wheel O' Format will eventually result in hitting upon some magic combination of niche programming that is so irresistible that word of it will spread like wildfire.
  • He will then be able to rake in the money with no effort, while bragging to his buddies on the links that he "did it all himself".

I am with you, Doctor...

Does that help any?

Cynical? Oh yes, I am. But I've been in this business way too long.

-- Doc
 
DoctorWu said:
I have never worked for Saul, but I have worked for owners like Saul. Let me break it down:

  • Saul likes the prestige of being a "broadcaster" and has owned stations for many years.
  • So many years, in fact, that he remembers when a radio station license was also essentially a license to print money. (Those days are past, if there was any doubt.)
  • He is, however, essentially a skinflint. He will not invest in better facilities, promotion or better people in order to boost flagging revenue.
  • Therefore, he believes that spinning the Big Wheel O' Format will eventually result in hitting upon some magic combination of niche programming that is so irresistible that word of it will spread like wildfire.
  • He will then be able to rake in the money with no effort, while bragging to his buddies on the links that he "did it all himself".

Does that help any?

Cynical? Oh yes, I am. But I've been in this business way too long.

-- Doc

I would like to know what those guys are getting paid. I can't imagine that station is pulling in much in advertising. Take that guy with the funny last name who had a high paying gig at KOST. Did he take the gig for the glory? And what happened to all those guys who used work at the Classical station that Saul ran before he flipped it? Those guys were no spring chickens. Where do you get a radio gig when you're 64 years old?
 
I believe I heard a few of them on KKJZ (which Saul manages for Cal State). KKGO used to be a jazz station as well (add that to the format list if you're keeping score).
 
tedbell007 said:
I would like to know what those guys are getting paid. I can't imagine that station is pulling in much in advertising. Take that guy with the funny last name who had a high paying gig at KOST. Did he take the gig for the glory? And what happened to all those guys who used work at the Classical station that Saul ran before he flipped it? Those guys were no spring chickens. Where do you get a radio gig when you're 64 years old?
[/quote]



Asking what one gets paid is a question most wonder about but it's not polite to ask. That being said, I doubt it's very much from Saul. That guy from KOST with the Greek last name isn't 64, and he's there for money to live on, not the glory. Oh and you can bet he's not making anywhere close to what he used to. But that would be true if he worked at CBS too. No one wants to pay anyone what they're really worth unless they're on TV as well. People with well paying jobs seem to get even better pay for their extra gigs. I'll bet Carson Daily is getting good money from CBS for doing mornings at AMP, probably better than someone without a late night hosting job on NBC would. But there is the "age" factor. At a certain point, you've maxed out and unless you have a certain stature, you're screwed. Look at how many posts mock older air talent simply because they're older. Unfair as that is, it seems to be something that many younger people do now days. What these younger people don't realize is that they only get jobs because they come cheap. Good, experienced talent cost more. You get what you pay for. Scary for the older guys isn't it.
 
I might add that at a certain age, you gravitate to formats like news, jazz, standards or oldies/classic rock, formats where experience and knowledge are assets. Being good on the air goes a long way too. Save you cash people, you'll need it.
 
K6JHU said:
I believe I heard a few of them on KKJZ (which Saul manages for Cal State). KKGO used to be a jazz station as well (add that to the format list if you're keeping score).

This thread started to address the vagaries of AM1260 so technically KKGO isn't included in this discussion of Saul's formats. But for the record he seems to have programmed the FM to fill unserved or underserved music formats. 105.1 went on the air in 1959 as KBCA playing jazz. A legal challenge from KABC (go figure) prompted the change to KKGO which then remained as a jazz station until September 1989 when KFAC dropped Classical Music and Saul flipped to Classical as KMZT. There it stayed until February of 2007 when it flipped to country and reassumed the KKGO calls.

Now there was some cross formatting withe the AM at 1260 and until recently 540. The country format was on am 1260 and simulcast on 540 as KKGO from October 2006 until February 2007. When country went to FM the AM adopted both the KMZT calls and Classical music. KGIL using a variety of calls has been pretty much anything but Macedonian bag pipe music over the years. Some of them were pretty out there and others more mundane. It was even jazz for a couple of years in the early part of this century. The most recent format flip seemed to have been prompted by a decision by Talk Radio Network to pull their premier Laura Ingraham show in favor of KFWB. After that there is not too much confirmed detail but my impression is the Mr. Levine told them where to go and since they provided much of his syndicated programing there went News-Talk 1260.

There was a side story that John Ziegler was anticipating a deal with TRN with KGIL as the flagship. So when they pulled the programming or Saul pulled it over Ingraham, his deal went out the window so he packed up and left. Remember also at the start of News Talk they also served as the flagship for Dr. Drew's brief foray into conventional talk at noon weekdays. That was through Westwood One though not TRN.

When 1260 as KSUR was playing standards right after the Jazz period he pulled the standards in favor of Oldies when KLAC-570 went to standards so that was another battle with the big guys. He went back to standards before news talk when Clear Channel dropped standards.

So without Mr. Levine's own statements there is no real explanation for all of the changes, the ones noted above notwithstanding. They all utilized better than average talent and the content in my opinion has always been good. Going into news-talk was one that I never figured though, given the market saturation. Originally it began as a kind of balanced format with some Conservative (Boortz and Larson) with some Liberal (Michael Jackson, Ed Shultz, and Alan Colmes). Then it shifted to all conservative with Ingraham, Beck, Crowley, Savage and John Ziegler as the local show instead of Michael Jackson. I think that Lars Larson was the only survivor from the original lineup. So in that period it had several sub shifts within the format.

In the end you might be best going with the "odd duck' theory, although I don't think he has lost money and now KKGO seems to be doing better than ever on FM. Perhaps over the years it has financed the AM experiment. If he was a total skinflint he could not have gotten the talent he has had over the years, even out of work DJs will only go so low. On the other hand I doubt that he is anything but frugal however the AM site has been considerably upgraded since his acquisition so I assume he spends what he needs.

If I owned it I would have probably stay with either oldies or standards mostly automated to keep costs down. If not that then lease it to some kind of ethnic or religious programmer and just sit back and cash the checks. He can not sell it for anywhere near what he might want or need to get out of it so why not just settle for the best he can do and not lose his shirt.
 
I can see why he is indeed frugal, but I'd like to ask two questions regarding KKGO.

1)-----Rick Cummings told Lon Helton in an R&R column shortly after KZLA flipped to KMVN, 'I hated pi**ing off a half-million listeners, but I needed a million to make it (staying country) work'.

Are the overhead expenses really that overwhelming for a corporate-owned station vs. a privately-owned one?

2)---Like lots of others, I'm indeed appalled that KKGO doesn't at least carry syndicated programming from 7PM-5AM, such as those hosted by Whitney Allen and Blair Garner. Can someone hazard a reasonable guess as to what it would cost Mr. Levine to carry those programs?

I know that KKGO does much better in Orange County than in LA County, so I don't know if that situation factored into his decision to drop Ms. Allen's show & go automated at 7 PM.
 
Marv-L.A. said:
I know that KKGO does much better in Orange County than in LA County,

If I could remember didn't KKGO once had top ratings for the market? I believe #12 or #13?
 
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