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You Have No Alternative Across The Nation

Y

y100rocksu

You Have No Alternative Across The Nation

Across the nation why are the alternative radio stations always the first to go?

Source: FMQB.com
CBS Radio will have its tenth "Free FM" station when it flips Alternative KZON/Phoenix to Talk on Tuesday, January 3, leaving crosstown KEDJ as the lone Alternative in the market. However, The Zone will be playing music late nights and on weekends, which will be called "Free Rock Weekends," highlighting "the best music from today, the `90s and Rock’s past.” By the way, Adam Carolla had already been announced as Howard Stern's replacement on The Zone.

Clear Channel's Alternative in Madison, Wisconsin, WMAD, flipped to County as "96.3 Star Country" at midnight on December 23, leaving PD Brad Savage and MD Leslie Scott looking for their next opportunities. The station is currently in the midst of a playing 10,000 songs in-a-row commercial-free.
 
Re: You Have No Alternative Across The Nation

> Across the nation why are the alternative radio stations
> always the first to go?
>
> Source: FMQB.com
> CBS Radio will have its tenth "Free FM" station when it
> flips Alternative KZON/Phoenix to Talk on Tuesday, January
> 3, leaving crosstown KEDJ as the lone Alternative in the
> market. However, The Zone will be playing music late nights
> and on weekends, which will be called "Free Rock Weekends,"
> highlighting "the best music from today, the `90s and Rock’s
> past.” By the way, Adam Carolla had already been announced
> as Howard Stern's replacement on The Zone.
>
> Clear Channel's Alternative in Madison, Wisconsin, WMAD,
> flipped to County as "96.3 Star Country" at midnight on
> December 23, leaving PD Brad Savage and MD Leslie Scott
> looking for their next opportunities. The station is
> currently in the midst of a playing 10,000 songs in-a-row
> commercial-free.
>


The Alternative stations are always the first to go because they almost always bring up the rear in the ratings race. Now is that due to Arbitron's flawed system of measuring ratings...or is that due to people actually not listening. That's a debate for another thread. <P ID="signature">______________
Ben Toplek
DJ/WBWC</P>
 
The REAL Problem...

>
> The Alternative stations are always the first to go because
> they almost always bring up the rear in the ratings race.
> Now is that due to Arbitron's flawed system of measuring
> ratings...or is that due to people actually not listening.
> That's a debate for another thread.
>

That's a start....but most people miss the obvious...most current alternative bands suck....and I love Rock. (Short of Green Day and few 90s hang overs...and even they have changed drastically) Half of them are just a bunch of whinny emo music or poser metal. Alternative is not what it used to be at all. How many 30+ people really want to hear Breaking Benjamin, Fall Out Boy or My Chemical Romance numerous times a day....(cricket, cricket) You need to have something decent non-13 year old related that people want to listen to before you can sell it. This has been the reason for many alternative stations to go Active Rock....to pull a few of those "respectable" bands to get away from today's crap.
 
Re: The REAL Problem...

Sure if you live in OKC or Charlotte or something then yeah, alt radio sucks right now b/c it's just watered down active.

But over here on the w. coast, there are really great things happening in the format. Unique and innovative bands are getting regular play at stations like 94.7 Portland, The End Seattle, The Edge Phoenix, Indie LA, 91X & 94.9 San Diego. WMAD Madison was among the very few midwestern stations that fit this progressive mold.
 
Re: The REAL Problem...

>
> That's a start....but most people miss the obvious...most
> current alternative bands suck....and I love Rock. (Short of
> Green Day and few 90s hang overs...and even they have
> changed drastically) Half of them are just a bunch of whinny
> emo music or poser metal. Alternative is not what it used to
> be at all. How many 30+ people really want to hear Breaking
> Benjamin, Fall Out Boy or My Chemical Romance numerous times
> a day....(cricket, cricket) You need to have something
> decent non-13 year old related that people want to listen to
> before you can sell it. This has been the reason for many
> alternative stations to go Active Rock....to pull a few of
> those "respectable" bands to get away from today's crap.
>

Nah....I disagree. Sure, things could be better...but c'mon: Greenday, Foo Fighters, The Killers, Franz Ferdinand, U2, Coldplay, even Nine Inch Nails. All alternative bands that had huge years in 2005 and appeal to the entire 18-34 group....pretty solid foundation for your current rotation. I think you've got to throw My Chemical Romance and Fall Out Boy in there...at least in certain dayparts....those bands are HUGE with the younger audience....maybe they're not your direct target, but you still shouldn't alienate them completely.

Take advantage of the HUGE library of music you have....."alternative" rock has been around for almost 25 years....don't be afraid to play all of it...the hits, some rare album tracks, live recordings, some 80s stuff, grunge, punk, harder, softer, acoustic....get behind some new bands that may not be making much of a splash nationally yet but that you feel are strong. Don't be boring....variety is your friend. Okay, off soapbox. <P ID="signature">______________
Ben Toplek
DJ/WBWC</P>
 
Re: The REAL Problem...

> Nah....I disagree. Sure, things could be better...but
> c'mon: Greenday, Foo Fighters, The Killers, Franz
> Ferdinand, U2, Coldplay, even Nine Inch Nails. All
> alternative bands that had huge years in 2005 and appeal to
> the entire 18-34 group....pretty solid foundation for your
> current rotation. I think you've got to throw My Chemical
> Romance and Fall Out Boy in there...at least in certain
> dayparts....those bands are HUGE with the younger
> audience....maybe they're not your direct target, but you
> still shouldn't alienate them completely.

First off, this isnt soley about 2005. The point is the slowly undeniable dying trend of alternative radio that has been occuring for several years now. My point is the the overall quality is down. Mainstream popularity isnt going to win you alternative ratings. Short of NIN and some of FF all of the "core" bands you mentioned get tons of airplay on Top 40 radio as well..they arent unique to Alternative. I picked out FOB and MCR at random but there plenty more bands I consider sub par that is causing the problem. The younger demos are nice, but arent going to help you alot in the long run.

> Take advantage of the HUGE library of music you
> have....."alternative" rock has been around for almost 25
> years....don't be afraid to play all of it...the hits, some
> rare album tracks, live recordings, some 80s stuff, grunge,
> punk, harder, softer, acoustic....get behind some new bands
> that may not be making much of a splash nationally yet but
> that you feel are strong. Don't be boring....variety is
> your friend. Okay, off soapbox.
>

Well that sounds like you just partially reinvented active rock. (lol) And while several alternative stations do do that, in a sense you ARE agreeing by trying to use what you mentioned as fillers for the lack of decent alternative music.
My overall point is that defending the status quo doesnt really work...and the ratings prove that. It appears new concepts to seperate it out are necessary or well...wait for better music.
 
Re: The REAL Problem...

> >
> > That's a start....but most people miss the obvious...most
> > current alternative bands suck....and I love Rock. (Short
> of
> > Green Day and few 90s hang overs...and even they have
> > changed drastically) Half of them are just a bunch of
> whinny
> > emo music or poser metal. Alternative is not what it used
> to
> > be at all. How many 30+ people really want to hear
> Breaking
> > Benjamin, Fall Out Boy or My Chemical Romance numerous
> times
> > a day....(cricket, cricket) You need to have something
> > decent non-13 year old related that people want to listen
> to
> > before you can sell it. This has been the reason for many
> > alternative stations to go Active Rock....to pull a few of
>
> > those "respectable" bands to get away from today's crap.
> >
>
> Nah....I disagree. Sure, things could be better...but
> c'mon: Greenday, Foo Fighters, The Killers, Franz
> Ferdinand, U2, Coldplay, even Nine Inch Nails. All
> alternative bands that had huge years in 2005 and appeal to
> the entire 18-34 group....pretty solid foundation for your
> current rotation. I think you've got to throw My Chemical
> Romance and Fall Out Boy in there...at least in certain
> dayparts....those bands are HUGE with the younger
> audience....maybe they're not your direct target, but you
> still shouldn't alienate them completely.
>
> Take advantage of the HUGE library of music you
> have....."alternative" rock has been around for almost 25
> years....don't be afraid to play all of it...the hits, some
> rare album tracks, live recordings, some 80s stuff, grunge,
> punk, harder, softer, acoustic....get behind some new bands
> that may not be making much of a splash nationally yet but
> that you feel are strong. Don't be boring....variety is
> your friend. Okay, off soapbox.
>

In my opinion, Alternative music of the current is the only current music worth listening to today. Whiny emo or not its better then what they got playing on CHR and Hot AC. Lets just say I'd rather hear Hawthorne Heights yell "BECAUSE YOU KILL ME!! YOU KNOW YOU DO YOU KILL ME WELL!" with actual music being played then Dem Franchise Boyz say "Aw I think dey like me" over and over again to a synthesized beat.

As for taking advantage of the HUGE library, WKQX has been doing that since earlier this year and it went nowhere.
<P ID="signature">______________

</P>
 
Re: You Have No Alternative Across The Nation

>
> Clear Channel's Alternative in Madison, Wisconsin, WMAD,
> flipped to County as "96.3 Star Country" at midnight on
> December 23, leaving PD Brad Savage and MD Leslie Scott
> looking for their next opportunities. The station is
> currently in the midst of a playing 10,000 songs in-a-row
> commercial-free.
>
I'm gonna miss WMAD. WMAD has to be one of the most interesting alternative stations i've heard in a long time.


the new "Star Country" format they got going there is unoriginal

1. 96.3 was an AC station from 2000-2002 as "Star 96.3"
2. The format is a carbon copy of crosstown WWQM
3. The voice lady (who works alongside the voice guy) was on their sister station WMAD 92.1 (once Mad Radio 92-1) (later WXXM when they brought back Mad Radio on 96.3) doing the voice work for the hot AC format "Mix 92.1" that they first dumped Mad Radio for in 2002.

Kind of sad, but Mad Radio got blown up twice.

96.3 was harder then 92.1. It was more edgy from the start. Kicked off with a real good jump start in the ratings but fell right back down.<P ID="signature">______________

</P>
 
Re: The REAL Problem...

> First off, this isnt soley about 2005. The point is the
> slowly undeniable dying trend of alternative radio that has
> been occuring for several years now. My point is the the
> overall quality is down. Mainstream popularity isnt going to
> win you alternative ratings. Short of NIN and some of FF all
> of the "core" bands you mentioned get tons of airplay on Top
> 40 radio as well..they arent unique to Alternative. I picked
> out FOB and MCR at random but there plenty more bands I
> consider sub par that is causing the problem. The younger
> demos are nice, but arent going to help you alot in the long
> run.

And my point is that while alternative radio has been slowly dying for the past several years...it is a positive thing that so many alternative bands had good years in 2005. NIN and Foo Fighters aren't unique to alt. radio either...active rock plays the hell out of them. I look at all the cross-appeal as a GOOD thing. Coldplay and The Killers get play on Top 40 radio because it is good music, good music that was born in the alternative format. And if the year 2006 brings us 10 phenominal bands that start in the alternative format and make it big, breathing more new life into the format....you don't think those will start to eventually get some Top 40 attention, making them (gasp) not unique to alt. radio?? And I would think that appealing to the younger demo...at least ever so slightly...is helping you in the long run. Getting them in the habit of listening to your station now before they are entirely lost to iPods (if its not already inevitable)

>
> Well that sounds like you just partially reinvented active
> rock. (lol) And while several alternative stations do do
> that, in a sense you ARE agreeing by trying to use what you
> mentioned as fillers for the lack of decent alternative
> music.
> My overall point is that defending the status quo doesnt
> really work...and the ratings prove that. It appears new
> concepts to seperate it out are necessary or well...wait for
> better music.
>

I never said use that stuff as fillers, more or less to compliment the new/newer music that you are playing. More of a 50/50 mix. No doubt alternative should be about playing the new music and breaking new artists.....but do you think in order to become a more successful format it needs to forget about the past and play almost exclusively new music??<P ID="signature">______________
Ben Toplek
DJ/WBWC</P>
 
Re: The REAL Problem...

> > do you think in order to become a more successful format it
> needs to forget about the past and play almost exclusively
> new music??
>

In order to become successful altrock needs to EMBRACE its past and regularly program the bands that made it what it is - i.e. The Clash, Ramones, Damned, Costello, Echo & the Bunnymen, Blondie, Cars, Depeche Mode, Husker Du, The Replacements, Sonic Youth, etc., etc., etc., and not just confine them to "retro lunchtime".

For the future, it has to give up on all the sound-alike nu-metal bands and start programming bands who know how to write songs. There were a large number of bands that altrock let get away in 2005 through their own laziness, including Kaiser Chiefs, Graham Coxon, Rilo Kiley, Maximo Park, Kasabian, LCD Soundsystem, Turbonegro, The Brakes, The Doves, Sleater Kinney, New Pornographers, and I could go on and on but it's too depressing to list all the great music that went unplayed because altrock remained fixated on soulless crap like System of a Down and Nickelback.


That said - ten bands to watch in 2006 are:

The Subways, The Editors, Art Brut, We Are Scientists, Magic Numbers, Babyshambles, Be Your Own Pet, Clap Your Hands Say Yeah, Nine Black Alps, and The Arctic Monkeys.
 
Re: The REAL Problem...

> > > do you think in order to become a more successful format
> it
> > needs to forget about the past and play almost exclusively
>
> > new music??
> >
>
> In order to become successful altrock needs to EMBRACE its
> past and regularly program the bands that made it what it is
> - i.e. The Clash, Ramones, Damned, Costello, Echo & the
> Bunnymen, Blondie, Cars, Depeche Mode, Husker Du, The
> Replacements, Sonic Youth, etc., etc., etc., and not just
> confine them to "retro lunchtime".
>
> For the future, it has to give up on all the sound-alike
> nu-metal bands and start programming bands who know how to
> write songs. There were a large number of bands that altrock
> let get away in 2005 through their own laziness, including
> Kaiser Chiefs, Graham Coxon, Rilo Kiley, Maximo Park,
> Kasabian, LCD Soundsystem, Turbonegro, The Brakes, The
> Doves, Sleater Kinney, New Pornographers, and I could go on
> and on but it's too depressing to list all the great music
> that went unplayed because altrock remained fixated on
> soulless crap like System of a Down and Nickelback.
>
>
> That said - ten bands to watch in 2006 are:
>
> The Subways, The Editors, Art Brut, We Are Scientists, Magic
> Numbers, Babyshambles, Be Your Own Pet, Clap Your Hands Say
> Yeah, Nine Black Alps, and The Arctic Monkeys.
>

Those are all great artists, but I think that when stations sound TOO eclectic or TOO indie/hip and what not, it turns a variety of listeners off. A good mix of maybe "cutting edge" alternative like The Fray and Death Cab mixed in with more "active" sounding bands like Breaking Benjamin, Finger Eleven mixed with alt/active stapes like NIN and Green Day is the way to do it IMHO.
 
Re: The REAL Problem...

I couldn't agree with both of you guys more. When I asked the question about dumping all the alt. rock classics from your playlist...it was more rhetorical. IMO it would be suicide for an alt. station to rely just on its current rotation to carry it. I don't buy into programmers blaming the new bands for the demise of their station. Epsilon is right....the good music is out there...its their job to FIND IT!! I am still apalled that alt. radio never hopped on Head Automatica...maybe the new disc will be a different story. HUGE band for my station in 2004....still get tons of requests for it almost a year after the fact. The band to this day has never made a splash on the charts...but somehow me and my music director found it...and it paid off big time for us.

I think any alt. station worth its beans needs to have those older bands that Epsilon mentioned mixed in there to some extent....maybe two songs an hour. And I think they've got to have those new bands that Epsilon mentioned too. But Phil is right on with the mix statement...its all about the mix. Mix in the cutting edge stuff....mix in the huge hits....mix in some album cuts....some grunge....its all about the flow baby, and killer imaging and non-annoying jocks don't hurt. Guess the bottom line is....its radio...try and find out what portion of the listeners aren't being served...and serve them. So simple and so complicated all at the same time. <P ID="signature">______________
Ben Toplek
DJ/WBWC</P>
 
Re: The REAL Problem...

> Nah....I disagree. Sure, things could be better...but
> c'mon: Greenday, Foo Fighters, The Killers, Franz
> Ferdinand, U2, Coldplay, even Nine Inch Nails. All
> alternative bands that had huge years in 2005 and appeal to
> the entire 18-34 group....pretty solid foundation for your
> current rotation. I think you've got to throw My Chemical
> Romance and Fall Out Boy in there...at least in certain
> dayparts....those bands are HUGE with the younger
> audience....maybe they're not your direct target, but you
> still shouldn't alienate them completely.
>
> Take advantage of the HUGE library of music you
> have....."alternative" rock has been around for almost 25
> years....don't be afraid to play all of it...the hits, some
> rare album tracks, live recordings, some 80s stuff, grunge,
> punk, harder, softer, acoustic....get behind some new bands
> that may not be making much of a splash nationally yet but
> that you feel are strong. Don't be boring....variety is
> your friend. Okay, off soapbox.
>

I aggree with everything that this poster said. I am the PD at an internet radio station. We are going to all new rock/alternative on January 1st. Right now we mostly have just new rock but by Febuary we hope to mix in that classic alternative.
 
Re: The REAL Problem...

it's too depressing to list all the great music
> that went unplayed because altrock remained fixated on
> soulless crap like System of a Down and Nickelback.

I agree with everything you said - but this. SOAD is one of the most lyrically intense, politically charged, and musically creative bands in the rock scene... their sound doesn't change, but there's a reason why they're a heavyweight. Nickelback is another group whose lyrics actually mean something.. the beats aren't outstanding, but I'd much rather work on promoting them rather than a band like MCR who clearly have no important message to convey and certainly aren't anything worthy of the major success they were able to amass. There are so many better bands out there that have more to them than 100% angst lyrics laid over yelling and screaming and a massive wall of drums and guitars that spew formulaic minor key chords and leech off the dollars of kids who settle for their new CD, instead of being exposed to music that they'll actually listen to the next year.<P ID="signature">______________
Alden "Dogga" Gillespy
Owner/Founder, Dance & Alternative PD
ClubNetRadio.com - Free Internet Radio Dance Hits 24/7</P>
 
Re: The REAL Problem / Nickelback

> it's too depressing to list all the great music
> > that went unplayed because altrock remained fixated on
> > soulless crap like System of a Down and Nickelback.
>
> I agree with everything you said - but this. SOAD is one of
> the most lyrically intense, politically charged, and
> musically creative bands in the rock scene... their sound
> doesn't change, but there's a reason why they're a
> heavyweight. Nickelback is another group whose lyrics
> actually mean something.. the beats aren't outstanding, but
> I'd much rather work on promoting them rather than a band
> like MCR who clearly have no important message to convey and
> certainly aren't anything worthy of the major success they
> were able to amass. There are so many better bands out
> there that have more to them than 100% angst lyrics laid
> over yelling and screaming and a massive wall of drums and
> guitars that spew formulaic minor key chords and leech off
> the dollars of kids who settle for their new CD, instead of
> being exposed to music that they'll actually listen to the
> next year.


Well, you lost me on Nickelback. Lyrically, they're very simplistic, and the only time they've really ever attempted storytelling is on "Photograph". I've heard the entire album (against my will, natch), and I have to say that songs like "Next Contestant" and "Animals" are ridiculously childish and shallow, and "If Everybody Cared" is mush in the vein of "We Are The World". I haven't even made it to their sound, which is just as generic as Creed. Everyone thinks that Nickelback is amazing, but there's nothing I've heard from them that rises above the bland corporate sludge that I've associated them with over the years.</P>
 
Re: The REAL Problem...

> >I think that when stations
> sound TOO eclectic or TOO indie/hip and what not, it turns a
> variety of listeners off. A good mix of maybe "cutting edge"
> alternative like The Fray and Death Cab mixed in with more
> "active" sounding bands like Breaking Benjamin, Finger
> Eleven mixed with alt/active stapes like NIN and Green Day
> is the way to do it IMHO.
>


I am (unfortunately) old enough to remember when NIN and Green Day were way too eclectic and hip for AOR; now they are staples of Active and Alt stations. Alt stations need to be ahead of the curve.
 
Re: The REAL Problem...

> That's a start....but most people miss the obvious...most
> current alternative bands suck....and I love Rock. (Short of
> Green Day and few 90s hang overs...and even they have
> changed drastically) Half of them are just a bunch of whinny
> emo music or poser metal. Alternative is not what it used to
> be at all. How many 30+ people really want to hear Breaking
> Benjamin, Fall Out Boy or My Chemical Romance numerous times
> a day....(cricket, cricket) You need to have something
> decent non-13 year old related that people want to listen to
> before you can sell it. This has been the reason for many
> alternative stations to go Active Rock....to pull a few of
> those "respectable" bands to get away from today's crap.


Agreed. The marketplace is flooded with way too many Blink-182 wannabes & soundalikes. I guess the whining lead covered in tats with spiked hair is what sells....to 13 year old girls. :(

G
 
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