You like what?

[grandoleopry]

I am glad you really are such an authority on formats Mr. Rock of Harrisburg. It seems to me with your GREAT experience in programming your Chambersburg stations should all be #1......but they're not are they?
You came on here about a year ago and blasted the Peak...but as I recall the following book after your scathing commentary the Peak moved into the #1 spot 25-54. We at radio Hanover do not judge you or your product so why is it Mr. Alexander that you insist on presenting your diatribe on ours? Finally, the Peak is NOT a Classic Rock station ; the format is Classic Hits, and the format has worked well from a programming standpoint as well as financially. If CHR was such a cash cow someone certainly would've jumped on that bandwagon in the York market....but they haven't because theres NO MONEY in that demo! 25 - 54 is where its at and that precisely where the Peak is! Now....why don't you worry about your market and let Radio Hanover take care of ours.

 

[RockofHBG]

Well,

Mr."Opry"...I won't assume what your real name is. Boy you are touchy! I best be careful, or you'll threaten me and get the posts removed from the board, again . In case you haven't noticed, this is a radio message board. It's where people make there opinions known, not trash others!

 

[johnnyu]

In the words of that great American, Rodney King' "Can't we all just get along"?

 

[grandoleopry]

Thou speak with forked toungue Mr. Rock ...You after all are the one who comes
on here and tears other stations apart not me.
You have friends in our building that you have even insulted.
By the way I never have been afraid to post my name.
Have done so many times.

Best,
Tim Michaels

 

[bossjock 56]

Before this post gets moved to "Take It Outside", let's try to get back on topic. A Class A signal like 92.7 is generally used to pull a share or two away from competing stations to help your primary Class B signal. In this case, I don't think it will serve its purpose. With Cumulus "winking" WARM, the picture gets clouded even more. The big winner in this whole scenerio could end up being Country. I could see certain Country stations pulling a 14 share....and everyone else...further back in the pack. I don't think WROZ will benefit much from this move. Unless Cumulus steps up to the plate and "expands" their new Country property into York and Harrisburg, these local markets will start looking like Knoxville or Chattanooga.

 

[RockofHBG]

Tim,

I have never personally attacked anyone on this site, unlike yourself. I enjoy sharing my recollection of Central PA history and of course, my opinions,of which many who post on this board share. I apologize if I have personally offended anyone. It is not my intent. Now some facts and opinion:

Fact: According to MMR, over the course of the week of September 20-26th, 2011, WYCR played a total of 808 different and distinct titles. The years of the songs range that included at least one title from every year between 1963 and 2008! Most years were represented by at least 10 titles.

Fact: The week's monitor included the following:

Classical Gas Mason Williams 1968
More Than Words Alias 1990
Man In The Box Alice In Chains 1994
One Week Barenaked Ladies 1998
Bitch Meridith Brooks 1997
Bette Davis Eyes Kim Carnes 1981
Don't Know What You Got Cinderella 1988
I Love You Climax Blues band 1981
With Arms Wide Open Creed 2000
Bad Bad Leroy Brown Jim Croce 1973
Love Removal Machine Cult 1987
Alone Again Dokken 1985
Cover Of The Rolling Stone Dr. Hook 1973
Unbelievable EMF 1991
Nights Are Forvever England Dan/J.F Coley 1976
Romeo's Tune Steve Forbert 1979
December 1963 Four Seasons 1976
Escape Rupert Holmes 1979
Living After Midnight Judas Priest 1985
Walking on Sunshine Katrina and The Waves 1985
Rock Me Gently Andy Kim 1974
Selling The Drama Live 1994
Summer In The City Lovin' Spoonful 1967
Ironic Alanis Morissette 1996
Since You've Been Gone Rainbow 1979
Listen To Your heart Roxette 1990

Plus 781 more titles of every year between 1963 and 2008. And Doesn't include "The Living Years" from the cast of Glee. All factual. Look it up if you have access to MMR.

Opinion: This isn't classic hits. It's every hit and quite a few stiffs, too. It's not a format. it's a target as broad as a barn for Cumulus, Clear Channel & Hall! Of course, it's only my opinon.

 

[RockMustLive]

Not that I want to get in the middle of this but to me, that's actually a cool playlist. Just the fact that they are willing to be different, which no one else around here is.

If I want to hear the same freakin' staples of classic rock or pop, I can find that anywhere. If I want to hear something that I haven't heard in awhile, at least there's a choice.

I think radio forgets that there are actual humans who like music. Not everybody wants some narrow format that some focus group thought was nifty. It should be a locally personalized experience, not some corporate mandated list generated by an algorithm.

 

[RockofHBG]

Fact: overly broad, long playlists have not historically garnered big ratings, at least not over the long haul. Think of stations like that as the big "family restaurant" that had everything on the menu. Then the pizza place came, the burger joint and the Chinese restaurant. Unless that big family restaurant was known for something, it probably went out of business. If it was known for a particular speicaltyy and the owner was business savvy, it dropped much of the other stuff from the menu and concentrated on what it is known for. It's real hard for a radio station to have a signature sound with a playlist that large.If it does do well, it is very vulnerable to a more specialized station And big playlist stations die BIG time in the larger PPM markets.

 

[vinyltapecd]

Not that I want to get in the middle of this but to me, that's actually a cool playlist. Just the fact that they are willing to be different, which no one else around here is.

If I want to hear the same freakin' staples of classic rock or pop, I can find that anywhere. If I want to hear something that I haven't heard in awhile, at least there's a choice.

I think radio forgets that there are actual humans who like music. Not everybody wants some narrow format that some focus group thought was nifty. It should be a locally personalized experience, not some corporate mandated list generated by an algorithm.

I totally agree with this. If you took a poll of all radio LISTENERS and asked them "Do you wish radio stations would incorporate more variety into their playlists? Are you tired of hearing the same songs over and over?", I'd be willing to bet that the percentage of people who say "Yes" would be very very high- I wouldn't be surprised if it is over 90%. And here is why radio people ought to be concerned: if the question was "Do you tend to avoid listening to the radio because you are bored with what it has to offer?", I'm sure the percentage who say "Yes" would be alarmingly high. The only people who disagree with these sentiments are those looking at things from the business perspective, and they need to change their views, because they are undermining their own goals with these ultra-narrow vanilla playlists.

Stations like the Peak are able to draw listeners through VARIETY. I'll even use myself as an example: in spite of my "sissy" music tastes for a 28 year old male, I actually listen to The Peak MUCH more than I listen to WSOX. Why? Because I know that there is a good chance the Peak will play something I haven't heard for a long time, so I am willing to stay tuned through one or two hard rock songs on the Peak which I don't particularly enjoy, since there is a good chance I will hear something interesting every once in a while. WSOX, on the other hand, is a complete "vanilla" station- even though I "like" the majority of songs that they play, I have gotten sick of hearing those same songs over and over and over on the radio, so I hardly listen to that station at all because it is unbelievably BORING.

 

[RockofHBG]

Keep in mind, although Arbitron diaries can measure passion, it is a crap shoot to try and program that way. If a fan of a particular station gets a diary and listens all day and accurately reports the listening, that's great. But for as small the sample is that Arbitron uses, are you will to bet the ratings farm on that chance? Best to have a radio station that is programmed to the way the vast, mostly dispassionate listeners use radio. Most successful radio stations are well defined, familiar, accessible, cume driven in order to accommodate the much lower real-world time spent listening that the average person can and will most likely report to Arbitron. You'd think as passionate as the radio geeks who post on these boards are,that they listen to a station 10-12 hours a day. It's all about the money !!

 

[RockMustLive]

The paradigm of how people listen to music has changed a lot in the past 10-15 years.  During that same time, the radio industry has become controlled by a few large corporations.  It seems to me that those two factors have led to an ever-widening gap between how Gen-X/Gen-Y wants to consume music and how traditional radio delivers music.

Starting with Napster, it became easy for people to listen to the music they love and discover new music.  Radio has shifted the exact opposite way.  It's become more watered-down, and the playlists are too tight.  And it seems like the more money the industry lost, the more they watered-down their product.  They got rid of local personalities and they made formats so incredibly narrow.

Outside of perhaps a few stations in big cities, radio doesn't break new artists any more.  As a kid, I used to look forward to hearing something new and finding a new favorite band.  From an outsiders view, it seems like everything's got to run through a corporate filter before a station is allowed to play it.

And in this area, it seems nobody wants to branch out and do something different (the Peak excluded). Instead, we have to have multiple country stations, classic rock stations, rap stations all copying each other. I think it's just driving more people to satellite or just bringing their iPods on the road with them.

 

[RockofHBG]

Another issue I have is with the term classic..."classic hits" The word classic is almost sacred. Very few things qualify as classic. "Old" does not equal "classic". A car must be at least 25 years old before it qualifies as a classic. And not every car is one. We would most likely agree that the '55 Thunderbird, '57 Chevy, '64 Mustang and '71 Charger are all classics. And I don't care how well cared for or how old your Pacer, "K" Car or Chevette is, it will never be a classic. "Casablanca" "Psycho" and "Rocky" are all classics. "Breakin'" "The Shaggy Dog" with Fred MacMurray and "You Light Up My Life" (the movie, not the song) are not classics. The Dick Van Dyke Show, which celebrates it's 50th anniversary this week, is a timeless classic. Try and name 3 other shows that were on at the same time and I'll be they're not classics.

It's my estimation at least half of what WYCR plays are not classic anything. If 25 years is the benchmark for cars, that would make 1986 the cut off for a song to even be considered a classic. And much of what is in the proper age range are not classics. Perhaps the station should be called "Jack" or "Bob", but not classic hits! We play everything or maybe anything is more like it, not "Classic Hits".

 

[Dan Shoe]

jesus...remind me never to start a positive topic again.

 

[RayThomas]

It seems to me the answer to the short playlist/long playlist quandry comes down to the competitive situation in the market. For years until KISS came on and they went Hot AC, Wink 104 had a very broad list for a CHR. They dayparted a lot of the harder and/or rap songs to nights only, played more soft stuff during the day and were the number one music station by a mile! Then the competition from KISS required them to pick a direction and become more focused. But as long as they had no competition, why not go with a broader list and attract a wider audience?

While I like Starview's new format, I seriously don't think they will massively hurt The Peak, which has a much better signal. In fact, with the change at WARM, 98.5's inclusion of some softer stuff may help them pick up former WARM listeners, more than making up for any losses to KZF.

 

[Seltzer]

Tim,

I have never personally attacked anyone on this site, unlike yourself. I enjoy sharing my recollection of Central PA history and of course, my opinions,of which many who post on this board share. I apologize if I have personally offended anyone. It is not my intent. Now some facts and opinion:

Fact: According to MMR, over the course of the week of September 20-26th, 2011, WYCR played a total of 808 different and distinct titles. The years of the songs range that included at least one title from every year between 1963 and 2008! Most years were represented by at least 10 titles.

Fact: The week's monitor included the following:

Classical Gas Mason Williams 1968
More Than Words Alias 1990
Man In The Box Alice In Chains 1994
One Week Barenaked Ladies 1998
Bitch Meridith Brooks 1997
Bette Davis Eyes Kim Carnes 1981
Don't Know What You Got Cinderella 1988
I Love You Climax Blues band 1981
With Arms Wide Open Creed 2000
Bad Bad Leroy Brown Jim Croce 1973
Love Removal Machine Cult 1987
Alone Again Dokken 1985
Cover Of The Rolling Stone Dr. Hook 1973
Unbelievable EMF 1991
Nights Are Forvever England Dan/J.F Coley 1976
Romeo's Tune Steve Forbert 1979
December 1963 Four Seasons 1976
Escape Rupert Holmes 1979
Living After Midnight Judas Priest 1985
Walking on Sunshine Katrina and The Waves 1985
Rock Me Gently Andy Kim 1974
Selling The Drama Live 1994
Summer In The City Lovin' Spoonful 1967
Ironic Alanis Morissette 1996
Since You've Been Gone Rainbow 1979
Listen To Your heart Roxette 1990

Plus 781 more titles of every year between 1963 and 2008. And Doesn't include "The Living Years" from the cast of Glee. All factual. Look it up if you have access to MMR.

Opinion: This isn't classic hits. It's every hit and quite a few stiffs, too. It's not a format. it's a target as broad as a barn for Cumulus, Clear Channel & Hall! Of course, it's only my opinon.

I side with Rock Of Hbg. This is a real mess. If you want to check out a Classic Hits station that does it well, give a listen to 99 the Hawk in the Lehigh Vallley. This station has managed to incorporate music from the 90s that actually makes sense.

Mason Williams & Dokken on the same station? You have GOT to be kidding me. And lets not forget where 92.7's transmitter is..just north of the City Of York. KZF will impact the Peak.

As far as WARM's listeners..many will stay with WINK, some on the older side should migrate to 96.1 because much of its music is what WARM used to play...70s and 80s stuff. Or perhaps the Rose will re-position to more Mainstream AC now.

 

[SteelRocker]

jesus...remind me never to start a positive topic again.

I was thinking the same thing Dan. WTH happened? I wanted to read positive things, not that someone insulted someone from another building or that The Peak has a big playlist.

Positive things...get back on topic and start a Peak vs. 92.7 in a different thread.

I don't spend much time in my car as I ride motorcycle when it's nice outside. However there were a few days that I was forced to drive and listened to The X. Was it just by accident that it appeared they weren't playing as much "classic rock" as they had been when I was listening? I'm hopeful they get back to more like when they were The Edge before I left town in the 1990s.

 

[Seltzer]

Another issue I have is with the term classic..."classic hits" The word classic is almost sacred. Very few things qualify as classic. "Old" does not equal "classic". A car must be at least 25 years old before it qualifies as a classic. And not every car is one. We would most likely agree that the '55 Thunderbird, '57 Chevy, '64 Mustang and '71 Charger are all classics. And I don't care how well cared for or how old your Pacer, "K" Car or Chevette is, it will never be a classic. "Casablanca" "Psycho" and "Rocky" are all classics. "Breakin'" "The Shaggy Dog" with Fred MacMurray and "You Light Up My Life" (the movie, not the song) are not classics. The Dick Van Dyke Show, which celebrates it's 50th anniversary this week, is a timeless classic. Try and name 3 other shows that were on at the same time and I'll be they're not classics.

It's my estimation at least half of what WYCR plays are not classic anything. If 25 years is the benchmark for cars, that would make 1986 the cut off for a song to even be considered a classic. And much of what is in the proper age range are not classics. Perhaps the station should be called "Jack" or "Bob", but not classic hits! We play everything or maybe anything is more like it, not "Classic Hits".

Agreed. I'm just trying to be constructive with my thoughts as I believe Rock of HBG is. Perhaps the answer to the question what you like is.........honestly......there ain't a whole lot to like in Central PA radio.

 

[Dan Shoe]

Here we go again. "there's not much to like in central pa radio"

Seriously? Do you have any idea how lucky we are? Take a quick scan of the dial. You've got at least 2 competing stations covering almost all the major formats like country, rock, pop, Hot AC. Look how many local morning shows there are! There's very few crappy syndicated morning shows or horrible voicetrackers doing cheesy bits about "how sexy the caller sounds". You've got a station like WHP that has local news all day, there's smaller AM's that soldier-on with niche' formats. You even have strong non-comm offerings like WITF and the WXPN translators. Even an odd station like The Peak has it's spot.

It's not perfect, but go drive around the northeast and take a listen to the crap that some cities our size have.

Oh wah wah wah...there's not a smooth-jazz/polka/oldies hybrid station here, and that's the "greatest format on earth and these corporate broadcasters don't support it" . There's a reason some stations aren't around...because no one listened.

I've moved all over the region because of my wife's job, and even though i haven't been in "the biz" in years, I've gotta tell you...this isn't too bad.

Dan

 

[vinyltapecd]

Perhaps the answer to the question what you like is.........honestly......there ain't a whole lot to like in Central PA radio.

Seltzer, for once, you and I completely agree on something.

As far as whether there is something to "like" in Central PA radio, that basically comes down to whether stations in the area provide something that people actually want to listen to. If stations bore their audiences to death by playing the same tired songs over and over because the corporate monstrosities try (unsuccessfully) to attract listeners this way, then there is NOTHING to like about that. Unfortunately, that seems to be the case in Central PA radio for the most part, with few exceptions. That is why I believe we are lucky to have a station like the Peak which does not seem to believe in boring its listeners to death, and is even willing to adopt a slightly "odd" version of its format in order to avoid doing so.

On the other hand, what if someone said they "like" WSOX or WARM (before it changed to Wink). I would ask them what is there to like about such stations? You can find the virtually same thing on literally 1000+ other stations around the country. And you could easily generate a playlist with more substance and variety by using the shuffle feature on your iPod, etc. Honestly, what is there to like?

For me, WMSS is something to like!

 

[RockofHBG]

[urlSeriously? Do you have any idea how lucky we are? Take a quick scan of the dial. You've got at least 2 competing stations covering almost all the major formats like country, rock, pop, Hot AC. Look how many local morning shows there are! There's very few crappy syndicated morning shows or horrible voicetrackers doing cheesy bits about "how sexy the caller sounds". You've got a station like WHP that has local news all day, there's smaller AM's that soldier-on with niche' formats. You even have strong non-comm offerings like WITF and the WXPN translators. Even an odd station like The Peak has it's spot. ][/url]

I agree with Dan. Central PA radio is good and has gotten better in many was because of the consolidation. If you think there is format duplication now, there was a lot more before consolidation because everybody had pretty much the same goal with their lone AMs and FMs...to be #1 in the mass market. And you know, the indies we have do a good job. Bruce Collier and WHYL brings a format to the table that no longer existed easily in the market. And honestly, Swidler has created a nice niche with classic country. I simply think that The Peak has screwed up the last couple of years. If you look back on MMR, they were a lot more focused when they flipped format in 2004. It is fixable.

A lot of radio people are nostalgic. Just like a lot of "first" things in our lives...first love, first car...our first radio listening experiences are special. They generally occurred from ages 10 -20, when hormones and emotions ran high. The music was all new. We didn't know what went on "behind the curtain" and we didn't really care. We were into what came out of the speakers. Was it different? In many ways yes. Was it better? Some ways yes and many ways not. Regardless, it will never be the same again whether you came of age in the 60s, 70s or 80s.