YOU PEOPLE CRACK ME UP!!

[pullitin]

WHEN YOU SAY INTERNET RADIO IS GOING TO WIN OVER HD?????
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

1. YOU NEED BROADBAND MOSTLY FOR A GOOD SOUNDING STATION THAT COST BETWEEN 12.95 ON UP /MONTH, PLUS IF YOU ARE THINKING WIRELESS??????? GIVE ME A BRAKE, THAT WILL ONLY GO OUT MAYBE 15 MILES AT THE MOST.

2. YOU NEED A RADIO TUNER, AND WILL THOSE INTERNET RADIO STATIONS ALWAYS SUPPORT WHAT THAT TUNER WILL PLAY?

3. HD RADIO WILL GO OUT JUST ABOUT AS FAR AS ANALOG IF YOU HAVE A GOOD TUNER. YOU NEED A WIRE ANTENNA ANYWAYS FOR FM ANALOG. THINK ABOUT THIS.

 

[ElCheapo]

WHEN YOU SAY INTERNET RADIO IS GOING TO WIN OVER HD?????
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

1. YOU NEED BROADBAND MOSTLY FOR A GOOD SOUNDING STATION THAT COST BETWEEN 12.95 ON UP /MONTH, PLUS IF YOU ARE THINKING WIRELESS??????? GIVE ME A BRAKE, THAT WILL ONLY GO OUT MAYBE 15 MILES AT THE MOST.

2. YOU NEED A RADIO TUNER, AND WILL THOSE INTERNET RADIO STATIONS ALWAYS SUPPORT WHAT THAT TUNER WILL PLAY?

3. HD RADIO WILL GO OUT JUST ABOUT AS FAR AS ANALOG IF YOU HAVE A GOOD TUNER. YOU NEED A WIRE ANTENNA ANYWAYS FOR FM ANALOG. THINK ABOUT THIS.

It cracks me up too.

What you have in this forum is a group of people with a shared hobby called DXing. That's where you try to listen to distant radio stations, record the times you listened then annoy the engineers at those distant radio stations to acknowledge your reception.

They're opposed to HD because it screws with their hobby, and they're totally incapable of seeing any kind of big picture. They just bash the technology, hoping the public at large will listen to the 10 of them (it it even 10?) and ignore the promotional blitz that radio is launching.

They hit up all the sites that allow reviews - like Amazon and CircuitCity.com and post negative reviews of all HD products they probably don't even own.

They remind me of this guy in my hometown that used to wear a tin foil hat to the fair every year and walk around with a red flashlight looking for monsters that weren't there.

 

[hipporadio]

WHEN YOU SAY INTERNET RADIO IS GOING TO WIN OVER HD?????
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

1. YOU NEED BROADBAND MOSTLY FOR A GOOD SOUNDING STATION THAT COST BETWEEN 12.95 ON UP /MONTH, PLUS IF YOU ARE THINKING WIRELESS??????? GIVE ME A BRAKE, THAT WILL ONLY GO OUT MAYBE 15 MILES AT THE MOST.

2. YOU NEED A RADIO TUNER, AND WILL THOSE INTERNET RADIO STATIONS ALWAYS SUPPORT WHAT THAT TUNER WILL PLAY?

3. HD RADIO WILL GO OUT JUST ABOUT AS FAR AS ANALOG IF YOU HAVE A GOOD TUNER. YOU NEED A WIRE ANTENNA ANYWAYS FOR FM ANALOG. THINK ABOUT THIS.

The "tuners" that present internet audio are MORE POPULAR as of this post then are the limited and generally unavailabe "HD Radio" offerings.

As was pointed out many times in threads here--retailers seem more compelled to offer $300 "internet tuners" than the poor-performing Boston Acoutics Receptor HD radio at the same price. These retailers don't have "a chicken in the pan" in the HD broadcast debate--they don't care--and they simply respond to the consumer market and its demand. They only wish to keep their doors open by meeting a need and selling products to happy customers based on such.

I cannot cite a contemporary below the age of 70 that has resisted the offer to upgrade to broadband high-speed internet service. Clearly, those who haven't--can't at this time because of a lack of local infrastructure. That will certainly change--well before the BA Receptor HD radios make their way to the Best Buy nearest you.

 

[700WLW]

WHEN YOU SAY INTERNET RADIO IS GOING TO WIN OVER HD?????
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

1. YOU NEED BROADBAND MOSTLY FOR A GOOD SOUNDING STATION THAT COST BETWEEN 12.95 ON UP /MONTH, PLUS IF YOU ARE THINKING WIRELESS??????? GIVE ME A BRAKE, THAT WILL ONLY GO OUT MAYBE 15 MILES AT THE MOST.

2. YOU NEED A RADIO TUNER, AND WILL THOSE INTERNET RADIO STATIONS ALWAYS SUPPORT WHAT THAT TUNER WILL PLAY?

3. HD RADIO WILL GO OUT JUST ABOUT AS FAR AS ANALOG IF YOU HAVE A GOOD TUNER. YOU NEED A WIRE ANTENNA ANYWAYS FOR FM ANALOG. THINK ABOUT THIS.

These two latest threads need to be moved to "Take-it-Outside". Obviously, as I stated earlier, there are very few pro-IBOC articles to post, so these types of tactics are resorted to - this reminds me very much of the IBOCRocks crowd. An estimated 55% of households have Broadband Internet and as stated over-and-over again, WiMax, G3, portable Internet Radio, WiFi, Wireless Internet, iRadio, etc. are are realities, and are projected to overwhelm HD Radio:

http://www.bridgeratings.com/press_031006-digitalprojectionsupd.htm

 

[ElCheapo]

These two latest threads need to be moved to "Take-it-Outside". Obviously, as I stated earlier, there are very few pro-IBOC articles to post, so these types of tactics are resorted to - this reminds me very much of the IBOCRocks crowd. An estimated 55% of households have Broadband Internet and as stated over-and-over again, WiMax, G3, portable Internet Radio, WiFi, Wireless Internet, iRadio, etc. are are realities, and are projected to overwhelm HD Radio:

http://www.bridgeratings.com/press_031006-digitalprojectionsupd.htm

[EDIT]

Look - you guys ARE pelting all of the review sites with anti-HD propaganda. You've admitted to it - even BRAGGED about it here. As far as I'm concerned, that makes it fair game for discussion.
[EDIT*]

[EDIT--personal attack.]
[EDIT*--inflammatory.]

 

[700WLW]

These two latest threads need to be moved to "Take-it-Outside". Obviously, as I stated earlier, there are very few pro-IBOC articles to post, so these types of tactics are resorted to - this reminds me very much of the IBOCRocks crowd. An estimated 55% of households have Broadband Internet and as stated over-and-over again, WiMax, G3, portable Internet Radio, WiFi, Wireless Internet, iRadio, etc. are are realities, and are projected to overwhelm HD Radio:

http://www.bridgeratings.com/press_031006-digitalprojectionsupd.htm

What? You spew venom constantly and when someone else does the same you can't take it?

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but most of your posts contain no substance whatsoever - just a lot of dire predictions for HD and a lot of .

Look - you guys ARE pelting all of the review sites with anti-HD propaganda. You've admitted to it - even BRAGGED about it here. As far as I'm concerned, that makes it fair game for discussion.

All the internet talk, that's still off-topic. Mostly because there's a board for that here.

I forgot a quote from the Bridge Ratings:

"While the wireless solution for in-car Internet radio still needs to be determined, its potential for use by the public at large is far greater than the current impressive growth projections for satellite radio."

 

[Tom Wells]

I am a radio user, not a DXer. Calling a listener a DXer implies you disdain how others choose to spend their time.
No one, particularly people who corcern themselves with Arbitron data, have any right to judge how others use a radio.
The airwaves belong to the public, and any weakening of this trust implicates the FCC, and should be grounds for censure (of the FCC).
Approving IBOC at night is very close to the exact diametric opposite of what they were chartered to do.
But just as the FCC authorized the bully pulpit-mode in the 1980's, they authorized bully-bandwidth mode.
And only such radio industry people have an interest in breaking the usefulness of radio to serve their own interests.
I can only hope IBOC proponents stew in their own interference, or suffer a comparable pollution of some cherished resource.

 

[ElCheapo]

I forgot a quote from the Bridge Ratings:

"While the wireless solution for in-car Internet radio still needs to be determined, its potential for use by the public at large is far greater than the current impressive growth projections for satellite radio."

In other words, there is no product yet - but when there is, we expect people to want it. Yada, yada, yada...

Nothing more than one man's opinion.

But back to the subject at hand - which is the anti-HD crowd making fools of themselves...

When you act like a bunch of circus freaks, don't be surprised if people point and laugh at you!

 

[700WLW]

I forgot a quote from the Bridge Ratings:

"While the wireless solution for in-car Internet radio still needs to be determined, its potential for use by the public at large is far greater than the current impressive growth projections for satellite radio."

In other words, there is no product yet - but when there is, we expect people to want it. Yada, yada, yada...

Nothing more than one man's opinion.

But back to the subject at hand - which is the anti-HD crowd making fools of themselves...

When you act like a bunch of circus freaks, don't be surprised if people point and laugh at you!

Portable Internet Radio is already out and a firm in Canada has alredy demonstrated in-dash Internet Radio. In-dash Internet Radio is due in the US by 2008, just in time for HD Radio's really big rollout !

 

[dbdigital]

WHEN YOU SAY INTERNET RADIO IS GOING TO WIN OVER HD?????
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

1. YOU NEED BROADBAND MOSTLY FOR A GOOD SOUNDING STATION THAT COST BETWEEN 12.95 ON UP /MONTH, PLUS IF YOU ARE THINKING WIRELESS??????? GIVE ME A BRAKE, THAT WILL ONLY GO OUT MAYBE 15 MILES AT THE MOST.

2. YOU NEED A RADIO TUNER, AND WILL THOSE INTERNET RADIO STATIONS ALWAYS SUPPORT WHAT THAT TUNER WILL PLAY?

3. HD RADIO WILL GO OUT JUST ABOUT AS FAR AS ANALOG IF YOU HAVE A GOOD TUNER. YOU NEED A WIRE ANTENNA ANYWAYS FOR FM ANALOG. THINK ABOUT THIS.

The "tuners" that present internet audio are MORE POPULAR as of this post then are the limited and generally unavailabe "HD Radio" offerings.

As was pointed out many times in threads here--retailers seem more compelled to offer $300 "internet tuners" than the poor-performing Boston Acoutics Receptor HD radio at the same price. These retailers don't have "a chicken in the pan" in the HD broadcast debate--they don't care--and they simply respond to the consumer market and its demand. They only wish to keep their doors open by meeting a need and selling products to happy customers based on such.

I cannot cite a contemporary below the age of 70 that has resisted the offer to upgrade to broadband high-speed internet service. Clearly, those who haven't--can't at this time because of a lack of local infrastructure. That will certainly change--well before the BA Receptor HD radios make their way to the Best Buy nearest you.

Speaking of internet tuners, here is a nice review of the Roku Soundbridge WiFi clock radio.

http://www.creativemac.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=78775

But anyone who sees this whole issue as terrestrial vs. satellite vs. internet or radio vs. iPod (like NAB's David Rehr and a few posters here) is living in the stone age.

As Mark Ramsey's (and other's) research indicates, consumers are far more flexible about their listening choices now then they were in past. Nobody is abandoning traditional radio but neither is radio the king of the hill anymore nor will it ever be again. HD Radio isn't going to stop this trend.

As such, listening devices have to be more versatile than they were in the past. Research indicates that hardly anyone is interested in buying a table-top HD Radio. But a combination device such as a clock/HD Radio/WiFi/iPod docking station/CD player could be a popular item.

As Ramsey indicates, for HD Radio to succeed iBiquity is going to have 'give it away' by making it standard equipment in other devices to reflect the new reality surrounding consumer listening habits.

db

 

[hipporadio]

So I guess this thread is back... May I suggest that we be men here and politly debate the issue at hand, There's NO REASON for us to NOT be friends because of this silly little IBOC debate.

ok... Here's my request before the thread was removed...

<<ENUFF... Cut the "sandbox" crap with your pal, "700WLW"... We're tired of it (and so maybe are the moderators)... There are many quality engineers (such as Tom Wells) and "tech types" such as myself, Chuck, SuperCaster, and others who wish to have a civil and friendly debate on this topic. Can't we do it, then grab some brews and enjoy our company?

I don't post topics here simply to "go to the front of the line", nor do I wish to make an "enemy" because of my opinions. We're all MEN here (I just checked--yep--how 'bout you all), so can't we just invoke the rules of a high school debate team... Attack the premise--fine... Attack the person--you're off the team! >>

 

[700WLW]

db: "As Ramsey indicates, for HD Radio to succeed iBiquity is going to have 'give it away' by making it standard equipment in other devices to reflect the new reality surrounding consumer listening habits."

Ibiquity is really in a no-win situation - iBiquity is two years late ROI (it has been 7 years total) and needs to generate considerable funds. HD radios are not selling, so there is no way they are going to be able to "give them away', or at a steep discount. 100 million analog radios continue to be sold every year, broadcasters cannot afford to turn off analog for many years, IBOC can only be transmitted at 1/100th power of the analog signal so there will always be poor reception, and the general public does not have a problem with current AM/FM except for lousy content and commercials. And, if it were to become standard equipment in automobiles, which will never happen (Satellite Radio pays car manufacturees a premium for each Satellite Radio installed - smart), there would be an out-cry because of poor reception.

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

What you have in this forum is a group of people with a shared hobby called DXing. That's where you try to listen to distant radio stations, record the times you listened then annoy the engineers at those distant radio stations to acknowledge your reception.

They're opposed to HD because it screws with their hobby, and they're totally incapable of seeing any kind of big picture...They remind me of this guy in my hometown that used to wear a tin foil hat to the fair every year and walk around with a red flashlight looking for monsters that weren't there.

What you have in this forum is at least one broadcast engineer with close to 40 years experience, who isn't a DXer and who isn't wearing iBiquity's rose-colored glasses either. Try finding out the facts about the people you feel the need to insult before you make a fool of yourself.

 

[dbdigital]

db: "As Ramsey indicates, for HD Radio to succeed iBiquity is going to have 'give it away' by making it standard equipment in other devices to reflect the new reality surrounding consumer listening habits."

Ibiquity is really in a no-win situation - iBiquity is two years late ROI (it has been 7 years total) and needs to generate considerable funds. HD radios are not selling, so there is no way they are going to be able to "give them away', or at a steep discount. 100 million analog radios continue to be sold every year, broadcasters cannot afford to turn off analog for many years, IBOC can only be transmitted at 1/100th power of the analog signal so there will always be poor reception, and the general public does not have a problem with current AM/FM except for lousy content and commercials. And, if it were to become standard equipment in automobiles, which will never happen (Satellite Radio pays car manufacturees a premium for each Satellite Radio installed - smart), there would be an out-cry because of poor reception.

I agree with what you're saying and you can see that iBiquity is working hard to recoup its R&D through the exhorbitant licensing structure it has set up for broadcasters.

The point I got from Mark Ramsey's presentation is that for HD Radio to achieve deep penetration, iBiquity is going to have to offer electronics manufacturers incentives and very generous licensing terms so that the technology will appear in a whole host of products. This means iBiquity would be making pennies (or maybe nothing) per unit instead of dollars. Motorola, of course, did something similar with C-Quam by giving away the licensing and then made money selling the chips for it. Unfortunately for iBiquity, they don't actually 'make' anything. HD Radio is just intellectual property.

We know from surveys done that the average consumer sees no advantage to HD Radio, but what if he/she had no choice. It's standard in every consumer electronics item. Ford Motor Company is an investor in iBiquity. If nothing else, HD Radio could appear in Ford products as standard equipment.

Like you, I think once they actually experience it, the complaints from consumers would be horrendous if HD Radio achieved that kind of market saturation. Hopefully, the consumer will have the option to switch it off.

db

 

[700WLW]

db: "As Ramsey indicates, for HD Radio to succeed iBiquity is going to have 'give it away' by making it standard equipment in other devices to reflect the new reality surrounding consumer listening habits."

Ibiquity is really in a no-win situation - iBiquity is two years late ROI (it has been 7 years total) and needs to generate considerable funds. HD radios are not selling, so there is no way they are going to be able to "give them away', or at a steep discount. 100 million analog radios continue to be sold every year, broadcasters cannot afford to turn off analog for many years, IBOC can only be transmitted at 1/100th power of the analog signal so there will always be poor reception, and the general public does not have a problem with current AM/FM except for lousy content and commercials. And, if it were to become standard equipment in automobiles, which will never happen (Satellite Radio pays car manufacturees a premium for each Satellite Radio installed - smart), there would be an out-cry because of poor reception.

I agree with what you're saying and you can see that iBiquity is working hard to recoup its R&D through the exhorbitant licensing structure it has set up for broadcasters.

The point I got from Mark Ramsey's presentation is that for HD Radio to achieve deep penetration, iBiquity is going to have to offer electronics manufacturers incentives and very generous licensing terms so that the technology will appear in a whole host of products. This means iBiquity would be making pennies (or maybe nothing) per unit instead of dollars. Motorola, of course, did something similar with C-Quam by giving away the licensing and then made money selling the chips for it. Unfortunately for iBiquity, they don't actually 'make' anything. HD Radio is just intellectual property.

We know from surveys done that the average consumer sees no advantage to HD Radio, but what if he/she had no choice. It's standard in every consumer electronics item. Ford Motor Company is an investor in iBiquity. If nothing else, HD Radio could appear in Ford products as standard equipment.

Like you, I think once they actually experience it, the complaints from consumers would be horrendous if HD Radio achieved that kind of market saturation. Hopefully, the consumer will have the option to switch it off.

db

I totally agree - I knew what you were trying to say, so I hope that I did not come across as combative... Looks like iBiquity is caught in a really touch situation; as long as Satellite Radio keeps paying car manufacturers incentives and there is consumer demand, I would think manufactures would continue to turn away from HD Radio. It is going to be real interesting, when Internet Radio becomes available in-dash !

 

[ElCheapo]

What you have in this forum is a group of people with a shared hobby called DXing. That's where you try to listen to distant radio stations, record the times you listened then annoy the engineers at those distant radio stations to acknowledge your reception.

They're opposed to HD because it screws with their hobby, and they're totally incapable of seeing any kind of big picture...They remind me of this guy in my hometown that used to wear a tin foil hat to the fair every year and walk around with a red flashlight looking for monsters that weren't there.

What you have in this forum is at least one broadcast engineer with close to 40 years experience, who isn't a DXer and who isn't wearing iBiquity's rose-colored glasses either. Try finding out the facts about the people you feel the need to insult before you make a fool of yourself.

Wow - and I thought we were going to try to change the tone here...

I am also an engineer - with 14 years experience. Virtually all of the examples of interference I've read and heard here were from the DX perspective.

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

and I thought we were going to try to change the tone here...

Accusing us of being DXers without ascertaining the facts was the tone set by you, not me.

I am also an engineer - with 14 years experience. Virtually all of the examples of interference I've read and heard here were from the DX perspective.

Then you had better start opening your eyes and ears, because the reports of interference are coming from lots of engineers with more experience than either of us. You may have to look elsewhere to get past the 700WLWs of this board, but the reports are all over the place...most notably on the broadcast.net remailers.

 

[wgliradio]

It cracks me up too.

What you have in this forum is a group of people with a shared hobby called DXing. That's where you try to listen to distant radio stations, record the times you listened then annoy the engineers at those distant radio stations to acknowledge your reception.

They're opposed to HD because it screws with their hobby, and they're totally incapable of seeing any kind of big picture.

Not all, some see it as an unrealistic step, or a band-aid until better tech and delivery methods are available. HD has and still suffers from poor promotion, poor implementation and uninspired offerings on HD-2's (I like the new ibiquity intro on their page... where the dial stops at 99.4 to explain multicasting. GMAFB. Can they get THAT right?

There are better things to listen to out there. Don't get me wrong, I am not a big supporter of sattelite, but I cant ingore the fact that some day we'll be listening to whatever we want, whenever we want, wherever we want.. and it probably will not be from a traditional radio station. Content delivery will exceed the 88-108 boundary, no matter how many ways we cram more data in.

 

[ElCheapo]

Then you had better start opening your eyes and ears, because the reports of interference are coming from lots of engineers with more experience than either of us. You may have to look elsewhere to get past the 700WLWs of this board, but the reports are all over the place...most notably on the broadcast.net remailers.

Interesting reading - hadn't been there in a while. You wouldn't happen to be Rich Wood would you?

I ask because I didn't see all that much HD bashing going on over there with the exception of Rich, and much of his unique lingo has made it onto this board.

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

You wouldn't happen to be Rich Wood would you?

No, I'm not Rich Wood, although I agree with everything he has to say on this subject.