Younger Skewing Conservative Talk

[OldAkronite]

I'll take the opportunity to mix things up on the board, and bring up something I mentioned in the below thread.

Conservative talk is *established*. It IS "your father's talk radio" now, having been around in its current form for about 25 years or so. Rush Limbaugh is the "Cadillac" of conservative talk, not only in his status in the business, but in the fact he represents a "car" that older people drive.

Sean Hannity is a younger, but he's basically aiming at the same people Rush is. The Rush-to-Hannity handoff is about as safe as you can get in talk radio, ratings wise, even though both mens' shows are produced by different outfits (Premiere and ABC, respectively).

Michael Savage is the "is he going to jump off the building" choice to follow Hannity.

So, maybe folks didn't notice that WYD Media Management is putting together national syndication for now-former KFYI/Phoenix hosts "Liddy and Hill" (yes, the "Liddy" is a relative of You Know Who, a younger relative). I've never heard their show, but it supposedly is a faster paced show aiming at a younger audience.

This thread isn't about them, because they could fall flat on their faces and stink up the airwaves. I've never heard them, though I suspect our own KJCB could throw in a comment or five.

No, this thread is about the trend in general. Are they only the first "younger skewing" conservative talk radio show to be syndicated, aiming at entertainment as a hook? Remember, WYD produces liberal Stephanie Miller's show for Democracy/Jones, and the lovely Ms. Miller describes herself on the air as "a comedienne who tells fart jokes" (to tweak those who try to assign importance to her, as she's clearly there in her own mind to entertain the audience).

Is it now time to start "saving the format" for the days after Rush retires/leaves the airwaves, etc.? When Rush, Hannity and Savage are gone, someone's gotta be there, somewhere, either locally or nationally.

-OA<P ID="signature">______________
Ohio Media Watch - <a target="_blank" href=http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com>http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com</a></P>

 

[gr8oldies]

Absolutely. What happened in the 80s and early 90s (Randy Michaels putting together a younger talk and entertainment format at WLW, Rush, etc.) needs to happen now. <P ID="signature">______________
Greetings from Ohio-where the governor wants everyone to know he's sorry.</P>

 

[Bushala]

> No, this thread is about the trend in general. Are they
> only the first "younger skewing" conservative talk radio
> show to be syndicated, aiming at entertainment as a hook?

I've always thought Glenn Beck was an attempt at that 'genre'

 

[bierkenstock]

I'd consider NJ 101.5 a very successful attempt at conservative talk targeting under 50 demos. They do it by having hosts with attitude, being outrageous, and not being strictly political (sports, entertainment, water-cooler topics and a nod toward hot talk). I'd call their spin more populist than strictly conservative, since they don't trust government and people in authority much.

Listen online at http://nick8.surfernetwork.com/media/wkxw.asx

Also KFYI (and Liddy and Hill mentioned in the first post) are available online at http://www.kfyi.com/stream.html (registration required).

The father of conservative talk radio (as we now know it) was Joe Pyne, who started doing this act in LA in the late 50's (almost 50 years ago). A national show was briefly popular in syndication (pre-satellite; tape recorded with guests only, no phone calls). Some local hosts tried it in the 70's and 80's (including Morton Downey Jr in Sacramento)with varying success, but arguementative and ideological talk radio did not really take off until Rush (who had taken Downey's slot when Downey got a syndicated TV show) went national.

 

[Kansas]

> I'd consider NJ 101.5 a very successful attempt at
> conservative talk targeting under 50 demos. They do it by
> having hosts with attitude, being outrageous, and not being
> strictly political (sports, entertainment, water-cooler
> topics and a nod toward hot talk). I'd call their spin more
> populist than strictly conservative, since they don't trust
> government and people in authority much.
>
> Listen online at
> http://nick8.surfernetwork.com/media/wkxw.asx
>
> Also KFYI (and Liddy and Hill mentioned in the first post)
> are available online at http://www.kfyi.com/stream.html
> (registration required).
>
> The father of conservative talk radio (as we now know it)
> was Joe Pyne, who started doing this act in LA in the late
> 50's (almost 50 years ago). A national show was briefly
> popular in syndication (pre-satellite; tape recorded with
> guests only, no phone calls). Some local hosts tried it in
> the 70's and 80's (including Morton Downey Jr in
> Sacramento)with varying success, but arguementative and
> ideological talk radio did not really take off until Rush
> (who had taken Downey's slot when Downey got a syndicated TV
> show) went national.
>

Joe Pyne............now there's a "blast from the past"!!

He died young. He was only what? 44? when he passed away back in 1970 or around there. I've often wondered what would have become of him if he hadn't died so young. You think he would have been the "anti-Phil Donahue" of the 1970's and 80's?? Pyne had a syndicated TV show back in the late 60's. I do believe that he was just becoming a household name at the time of his death (just like Donahue was becoming a household name at about that very same time, 1970 or so). It's my guess that Pyne's TV show would have disappeared sometime back in the 70's.....and he and some type of show of his (radio and/or TV) would resurfaced during the conservative Reagan-Bush era (1981-1992), I'm sure.

Today, if Pyne were still alive, he'd be about 80 years old....so I'm sure he would have stepped away from the microphone by now. It's unlikely he'd still be doing his thing, if like I said, he were still alive.

As far as Downey goes...........I never heard him on radio, but I did catch his syndicated TV show on cable back in 1987-88.

All I have to say about Morton Downey, Jr. is....number 1, just like Joe Pyne, Downey smoked about 3 packs of cigarettes a day (at least! lol) and just like Pyne, Downey ended up dying from cancer as a result of smoking. (Which is sad, really.) Also, nobody could egg-on a guest and/or an audience quite the way that Morton Downey, Jr used to, that's for sure!! Jerry Springer had nothing on him! Downey was quite a (chain-smoking) character, wasn't he? I just remember that toothy-grin of his, and the way that he would wave that cigarette around at whoever was standing in his way....and the way in which he would always respond to someone he disagreed with..........."Hey, Pal! Shut your mouth! You hear me? Shut your mouth! I'll punch you lights out, you creep! Now sit down and shut up, you jerk!!"

LOL! What an outrageous guy he was!!

<P ID="signature">______________
Put that thing away, please! You're scaring me!</P>

 

[KeithE]

> I'll take the opportunity to mix things up on the board, and
> bring up something I mentioned in the below thread.
>
> Conservative talk is *established*. It IS "your father's
> talk radio" now, having been around in its current form for
> about 25 years or so. Rush Limbaugh is the "Cadillac" of
> conservative talk, not only in his status in the business,
> but in the fact he represents a "car" that older people
> drive.

Liberal talk is today where conservative talk was in 1990. It takes several years to get established. AAR (or whatever network/syndicated show takes hold) might be at that level in another 10-15 years.

> Sean Hannity is a younger, but he's basically aiming at the
> same people Rush is. The Rush-to-Hannity handoff is about
> as safe as you can get in talk radio, ratings wise, even
> though both mens' shows are produced by different outfits
> (Premiere and ABC, respectively).

Hannity made his national presence subbing for Rush in the early '90s. IIRC, Hannity followed Limbaugh on WABC when Rush was still doing the split local/national shows and that's how they got to know each other.

> Michael Savage is the "is he going to jump off the building"
> choice to follow Hannity.

I still don't think Savage is anywhere near as important as Rush or Hannity. In fact, I put him at the same level as the Salem hosts or maybe just above. Savage is a low-class bomb-thrower in the "fine" tradition of Joe Pyne, Morton Downey Jr., or Ann Coulter (even though she isn't in radio). His antics give conservatives a bad name, not to mention that he isn't very entertaining.

An equivalent liberal is Randi Rhodes - all scream and little substance. If Howard Dean had a talk show he might be in this group.

> So, maybe folks didn't notice that WYD Media Management is
> putting together national syndication for now-former
> KFYI/Phoenix hosts "Liddy and Hill" (yes, the "Liddy" is a
> relative of You Know Who, a younger relative). I've never
> heard their show, but it supposedly is a faster paced show
> aiming at a younger audience.

Tom Liddy is G. Gordon Liddy's son.

> This thread isn't about them, because they could fall flat
> on their faces and stink up the airwaves. I've never heard
> them, though I suspect our own KJCB could throw in a comment
> or five.

I give them a year - they're awful. There's a reason people in Phoenix call them "Dumb and Dumber." Their politics has nothing to do with it. They're just flat-out juvenille. KFYI is better in the afternoons now that Joe Crummey took over that timeslot.

> No, this thread is about the trend in general. Are they
> only the first "younger skewing" conservative talk radio
> show to be syndicated, aiming at entertainment as a hook?
> Remember, WYD produces liberal Stephanie Miller's show for
> Democracy/Jones, and the lovely Ms. Miller describes herself
> on the air as "a comedienne who tells fart jokes" (to tweak
> those who try to assign importance to her, as she's clearly
> there in her own mind to entertain the audience).
>
> Is it now time to start "saving the format" for the days
> after Rush retires/leaves the airwaves, etc.? When Rush,
> Hannity and Savage are gone, someone's gotta be there,
> somewhere, either locally or nationally.

Limbaugh will be 60 in 2012; I can see him retiring by then. He won't be another Paul Harvey. Hannity's still young enough where he'll be around another 20 years at least.

 

[OldAkronite]

> I've always thought Glenn Beck was an attempt at that
> 'genre'

He's basically the only major national conservative host who would fit that bill right now.

But as I've noted here before, even Beck started moving away from some of the more entertainment-oriented parts of his show, particularly in the immediate post-9/11 time frame. He started framing himself in the "patriotic American with middle-American values" mold to try to play to the format's mainstream listeners. (Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course.)

I've dipped into his show a little more lately, and he's closer to how he used to be. But somewhere in there, I think he got it in his head that he would be the "successor" to Rush's throne at some point, and took himself too seriously.

-OA<P ID="signature">______________
Ohio Media Watch - <a target="_blank" href=http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com>http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com</a></P>

 

[OldAkronite]

We Have A Winner!

> Absolutely. What happened in the 80s and early 90s (Randy
> Michaels putting together a younger talk and entertainment
> format at WLW, Rush, etc.) needs to happen now.

Ding! Ding! We have our winner.

WLW has been dominant since this happened. They own the market, and it's not even a close second, especially on the AM dial.

WLW has a full-time local lineup of interesting, entertaining local hosts. The lineup is so strong, parent Clear Channel has never even tried to force Rush on them...he airs on sister station WKRC/550...and ditto with Hannity.

The hosts are not all "lock step conservatives". Middayer Mike McConnell has a strong libertarian bent, and has criticized the Bush Administration and Republicans on a regular basis, both on WLW and his weekend Premiere syndicated show.

Afternoon driver Gary Burbank, a Cincinnati radio institution, is entertainment oriented.

Late morning host Bill Cunningham is a strong conservative host who reminds me a lot of local midday conservative host Howie Chizek up here in Northeast Ohio... firm in his beliefs, but still entertaining.

And then there's WKXW "New Jersey 101.5", an FM-based talk station noted by a poster elsewhere in this thread. "Hot issues talk" with a populist bent, much like KFI/Los Angeles afternooners John and Ken, who returned to that slot on KFI/640 and now own the time slot, pretty much.

Political party talking points are out, my friends. Listeners are tiring of them, at least for now. The stations and hosts above can grab onto issues that resonate with "conservative talk" listeners - "NJ 101.5" is noted for rallying listeners about tax increases - but they can also veer off the talking points if it is an issue that their listeners are affected by.

-OA<P ID="signature">______________
Ohio Media Watch - <a target="_blank" href=http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com>http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com</a></P>

 

[Infidel]

> Michael Savage is the "is he going to jump off the building"
> choice to follow Hannity.

Savage is not so crazy, if you listen to him regularly. He does provide alternatives and solutions, rather than predictable liberal-bashing. Of course, every time you hear a commercial clip of Savage, he's screaming like he forgot to take his meds.

There are some young guys doing Conservative talk: Spencer Hughes, and Scotto (Boston) to name a few.

 

[gr8oldies]

Thought I read that Pyne had bulletproof glass between him and his TV studio audience. <P ID="signature">______________
Greetings from Ohio-where the governor wants everyone to know he's sorry.</P>

 

[gr8oldies]

Re: We Have A Winner!

Burbank will take shots at Republicans, Rush Limbaugh and others on a regular basis (pretty much an equal opportunity offender). Hardly the supposed CC playbook! Round it out with Sports talk and Scott Sloan (also mostly libertarian) and you have the Big One (Cincy version). Where else in a market that size does the VP/Ops do a regular show? (Darryl Parks..Saturday midday and fill). Cunningham actually does 12:30-3.

There were a couple occasions where Rush's show aired on WLW. It happened a couple of days while WKRC (or whatever 550 was then) was airing O.J. Simpson trial coverage. Another time Tony Snow was to fill in WLW was sew=t to carry it. They bailed from the fill-in show. More recently, when WLW talent Mike McConnell filled in for Rush, WLW and WKRC carried the feed. There was the other occasion with a split feed of sub hosts for Rush, with CC stations carrying Bill Cunningham (aired on WLW) and non-CC stations (and WKRC) carrying Walter Williams.

Don't count on hearing a lot of the McConnell weekend show this fall..I think he was pre-empted by sports on every affiliate east of the Rocky Mountains for football this Sat. (including the replay on WHO starting at 10pm et.).<P ID="signature">______________
Greetings from Ohio-where the governor wants everyone to know he's sorry.</P>

 

[bierkenstock]

Let's not forget the technical side

Conservative talk will have a hard time skewing younger as long as the format is mostly stuck on the AM band (your grandfather's standard broadcast band). At least some of NJ 101.5's success with younger listeners is a result of being on FM.

There are some hot talk FM stations (or partly hot talk), but outside of NJ 101.5 no mainstream FM talk stations come to mind. (I imagine somebody will point out some but I feel safe in saying they are few and far between.) In most markets, you have multiple FM stations fighting it out for the same piece of format turf (Urban, CHR, Country), and at least one of them is not doing well. There seems to be an untapped opportunity for both conservative and progressive talk on FM.

Let's note that progressive talk averages a few years younger than conservative talk, not a lot younger. Mostly, they are your father's kind of talk show host, too.

 

[OldAkronite]

FM Traditional Talkers

> There are some hot talk FM stations (or partly hot talk),
> but outside of NJ 101.5 no mainstream FM talk stations come
> to mind. (I imagine somebody will point out some but I feel
> safe in saying they are few and far between.)

You're right, of course, but they are coming on now.

There's the notable success of Clear Channel's WPGB/104.7 in Pittsburgh. Fueled by a popular morning show once on another FM station (Jim Quinn on otherwise classic rocker WRRK), and Rush and Hannity, the station's taken a rather large chunk out of once-untouchable KDKA/1020's ratings. KDKA, of course, used to have Rush, until Premiere didn't renew the contract...paving the way for them to put it on the CC-owned WPGB.

Clear Channel recently announced its second major market FM "traditional" talk station, for the Minneapolis market. The station will follow at least part of the WPGB model, as they'll get Rush, and later Hannity, from Hubbard's KSTP/1500. KSTP is basically letting them go without much of a fight, as the station's programmer noted falling ratings for both in a widely-published news article.

And then, there's Salt Lake City, which is blooming talk stations all over the dial on FM. KFMS/97.5's debut as a talk station - a move-in from Idaho - was leapfrogged by market leader KSL/1160 announcing an FM simulcast.

Oh, and don't forget a "traditional" issues FM talk station just a few miles from where I live - the Akron market's WNIR/100.1, which has been in the format for 20-plus years and has been in the top-5 in the market for most of that time. In fact, the station's run as a talk format station was PRECEDED by a few years of talk from midday host Howie Chizek, surrounded by music shows.

And another example - the former Philadelphia market talker WWDB/96.5, which was killed by Beasley Broadcasting after its own 20-plus year run...in a case of Really Bad Timing, just days before the red-hot November 2000 election controversy.

But as for the current crop of traditional FM talkers, mark my words...it's just the beginning. And if these stations start doing well, it'll be all over the place inside of a year.

FYI, there's only two FM liberal talkers in markets of any size - WXXM/92.1 (Madison) and KRPT/92.5 (San Antonio). Both are rimshots...KRPT somewhat more so than relatively-in-market WXXM. Both are Clear Channel-owned.

-OA<P ID="signature">______________
Ohio Media Watch - <a target="_blank" href=http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com>http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com</a></P>

 

[ajhenderson]

Re: FM Traditional Talkers

> FYI, there's only two FM liberal talkers in markets of any
> size - WXXM/92.1 (Madison) and KRPT/92.5 (San Antonio).
> Both are rimshots...KRPT somewhat more so than
> relatively-in-market WXXM. Both are Clear Channel-owned.

WXXM will be done inside of a year as well.

As to younger audiences on AM, I've always believed it would be cheaper to market the heck out of a new station (which you should do anyway) than the cost of the disparity between an AM and FM signal. In a large market, top FMs go for $200mil, while a decent AM could be picked up for $7-10mil. That's a big difference.

The people finding talk by accident on the FM dial are clubbing twenty-somethings stumbling upon the wisdom of Tom Leykis. I don't think your average "official at work station" listener is going to care if they happen to find Sean Hannity a few mHz up.

 

[tbetz]

Re: FM Traditional Talkers

> WXXM will be done inside of a year as well.

Why should it be "done inside of a year"?

It's approching the end of its first year as a progressive talk station.

Year-over-year, its 12+ ratings are as good as or better than (Winter quarter 2005 is SIGNIFICANTLY better than) its ratings as a Hot AC station were.

I've been listening to it, and it sounds like it's almost as well-programmed as KPOJ-AM -- missing only a local morning drive program.

Why shouldn't CC be pleased with its performance?<P ID="signature">______________
also known as tombetz.</P>

 

[OldAkronite]

Re: FM Traditional Talkers

> As to younger audiences on AM, I've always believed it would
> be cheaper to market the heck out of a new station (which
> you should do anyway) than the cost of the disparity between
> an AM and FM signal. In a large market, top FMs go for
> $200mil, while a decent AM could be picked up for $7-10mil.
> That's a big difference.

Your numbers hold up pretty well, and for a new, in-market full signal station, it makes a lot of sense.

But major groups like Clear Channel already HAVE these top FMs. They aren't buying them off the shelf. They're already there, doing other formats that may not be picking any traction. At one time, the FM station in Pittsburgh ran smooth jazz. It was once, I believe, the market's "Jammin' Oldies" station. For that matter, I believe the incoming CC talker in Minneapolis is also running smooth jazz.

Instead of trying to compete with a dying music format on 104.7, CC transformed it into a full-market FM talk station, and won the gamble, big. Why shouldn't major companies with faltering FM signals try talk? If it doesn't work, then it's off to another music format...

And the biggest problem: for younger audiences, the AM band DOES NOT EXIST. They look at it on a radio much like older folks may look at a shortwave band. Heck, with the popularity of newer music-delivery technology amongst teenagers (iPod and other MP3 players, etc.), at some point the *FM* band may become just as quizzical to them.

-OA<P ID="signature">______________
Ohio Media Watch - <a target="_blank" href=http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com>http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com</a></P>

 

[nate81]

Re: FM Traditional Talkers

> And the biggest problem: for younger audiences, the AM band
> DOES NOT EXIST. They look at it on a radio much like older
> folks may look at a shortwave band. Heck, with the
> popularity of newer music-delivery technology amongst
> teenagers (iPod and other MP3 players, etc.), at some point
> the *FM* band may become just as quizzical to them.

Which always brings up a perpetual rant: who was the bright mind that thought Radio Disney would work ON THE AM DIAL? Yes, it may be nicely programmed, given it's target audience - but what child listens to 50KW WQEW/1560 at 3:00AM on Sunday morning?

If rumblings are correct, Disney will most certainally unload it's radio stations. Taking out Radio Disney in the process. But if Disney bigwigs thought that such a network would work on the AM dial, that's why they are starting to pull an NBC.

- nate81<P ID="signature">______________
Nathan Obral
University Partnership Representative: LCCC Student Senate, Elyria, Ohio

The Morning Love with Mark and Sarah - Fridays 9AM EDT on Duck Radio!</P>

 

[david5258]

Re: We Have A Winner!

> Burbank will take shots at Republicans, Rush Limbaugh and
> others on a regular basis (pretty much an equal opportunity
> offender). Hardly the supposed CC playbook! Round it out
> with Sports talk and Scott Sloan (also mostly libertarian)
> and you have the Big One (Cincy version). Where else in a
> market that size does the VP/Ops do a regular show? (Darryl
> Parks..Saturday midday and fill). Cunningham actually does
> 12:30-3.
>
> There were a couple occasions where Rush's show aired on
> WLW. It happened a couple of days while WKRC (or whatever
> 550 was then) was airing O.J. Simpson trial coverage.
> Another time Tony Snow was to fill in WLW was sew=t to carry
> it. They bailed from the fill-in show. More recently, when
> WLW talent Mike McConnell filled in for Rush, WLW and WKRC
> carried the feed. There was the other occasion with a split
> feed of sub hosts for Rush, with CC stations carrying Bill
> Cunningham (aired on WLW) and non-CC stations (and WKRC)
> carrying Walter Williams.
>
> Don't count on hearing a lot of the McConnell weekend show
> this fall..I think he was pre-empted by sports on every
> affiliate east of the Rocky Mountains for football this Sat.
> (including the replay on WHO starting at 10pm et.).
>
another thing the big one, cincy style, hosts have going for them is longevity. i used to travel ohio for an insurance company and heard jim scott, mike mcconnell, billy cunningham and broadbank burbcating as early as 1983!!!billy used to follow trumpy on sports, from 9p-12mid, scott used to do 5-10, mike from 10-2 and gary from 2-6. gary's character earl pitts, uhmariken, skewers both sides of the political aisle without being mean. today, i enjoy hearing mike on the weekend, billy subbing for beck and rush, and jim scotts former newsanchor, bill wills hosting the big one, cleveland weekday mornings. living in old akronite land, i miss getting to hear 700--the epitome of full service talk radio nationally.-david5258

 

[ajhenderson]

Re: FM Traditional Talkers

> Your numbers hold up pretty well, and for a new, in-market
> full signal station, it makes a lot of sense.
>
> But major groups like Clear Channel already HAVE these top
> FMs. They aren't buying them off the shelf. They're
> already there, doing other formats that may not be picking
> any traction. At one time, the FM station in Pittsburgh ran
> smooth jazz. It was once, I believe, the market's "Jammin'
> Oldies" station. For that matter, I believe the incoming CC
> talker in Minneapolis is also running smooth jazz.

True, but with the debt these companies have, they could SELL the station to an outfit of lesser intelligence and bring in that amount in cash.

 

[ajhenderson]

Re: FM Traditional Talkers

> > WXXM will be done inside of a year as well.
>
> Why should it be "done inside of a year"?
>
> It's approching the end of its first year as a progressive
> talk station.
>
> Year-over-year, its 12+ ratings are as good as or better
> than (Winter quarter 2005 is SIGNIFICANTLY better than) its
> ratings as a Hot AC station were.
>
> I've been listening to it, and it sounds like it's almost as
> well-programmed as KPOJ-AM -- missing only a local morning
> drive program.
>
> Why shouldn't CC be pleased with its performance?

Their trends have plummeted from their initial highs. It would seem the novelty is over. With the absolutely abyssmal ratings the Hot AC format had, ANYTHING would be an improvement. That doesn't mean that (generically speaking) having a 1.0 over a former 0.5 is exciting. Of course, numbers are a bit better than that, but the principle remains the same.