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YOUR INTREPID HD MYSTERY SHOPPER CHECKS IN

From the "now THERE'S an hour of my life I'll never get back" department:

Making good on my threat/promise to investigate the vaunted Alliance HD Radio Christmas Push purporting to make sure a vast array of thrilling new HD receivers are packed into retail outlets, I went HD shopping in suburban Rochester today. Come along with me!

BEST BUY HENRIETTA: For portable, bookshelf and desktop units: Zilch. Nada. Not even their captive-brand Insignia; just boring old-fashioned iPod docking and executive radio-CD units. In the car stereo section there were four "HD-ready" head units and two receivers, a JVC and an Alpine, which listed HD capability. No HD primary stations or subs were heard. Queries about HD Radio put to BB personnel produced the typical blank stares. One guy said, "I think we might have a boombox in the back." Overhearing this exchange, a co-worker shot back: "No, we don't have that thing any more." They shrugged and suggested I search on-line.

CIRCUIT CITY: A brand new store, where I was greeted at the door by Santa and an eager clerk. I asked where the HD Radios were, and got the diplomatic, vacant "whaaat?" stare. Finally Val composed herself and sent me back to the car stereo section, where a knowledgable, helpful lad led me to a display where there was one JVC HD-capable unit already playing loudly, tuned to the local rock station. I said, "That's analog. The HD digital must sound fantastic." The salesman's startling response somewhat mitigated this sentiment.

"Why are you interested in HD?" he asked confidentially. I explained that I was a broadcaster and was investigating consumer and retail interest in the system. He frowned. "You didn't hear it from me, but Circuit
City really doesn't recommend HD. There have been a lot of problems. The reception is weak and it flips back and forth between regular radio and HD which people find annoying. And the stations don't supervise the side-channels very well, so they go blank for hours or days at a time and then customers come back and complain that their new HD Radio isn't working. It's kind of a novelty. They listen to the side channels for a few days but then they return to the main stations and never go back. If you want real variety on the radio XM-Sirius is a much better bet. It costs a lot less, works better and gives you a lot more channels."

In Circuit City's home receiver section, HD Radio got a goose-egg. Not one HD receiver was evident.

RADIO SHACK HENRIETTA PLAZA: Get out the paddles! Holy Bejeebus, there are TWO (count 'em) HD receivers on display - albeit, at ankle level but there nonetheless alongside a small plastic holder with a sheaf of dog-eared and faded HD Radio tri-fold circulars (looked like not only is Radio Shack getting returns on the radios, people are even bringing back the sales literature.) And: as I stretched out, prone on the floor to test-drive these babies, I flipped 'em around and they were connected to AC and a master antenna system! Zowie - let's go for an HD test drive already!!

A Jensen iPod-docker radio was one of the two, sporting a cheesy black-plastic cabinet with little Chiclet control buttons. I pushed the STANDBY/ON button and a dim blue display advised, STARTING RADIO. After about eight seconds a local Class B rock station came on - in analog only. I would compare the audio quality to a $15 GPX radio-cassette recorder you might buy at the local Rite-Aid. It would be hard to imagine a dramatic increase in response from HD through this unit's pitiful 3-inch speakers and plastic box, even if the digital worked, which it didn't - no HD main or subs were detected. On AM, the Jensen could only detect 50kw WHAM whose transmitter was about 6 miles away. In analog only, of course. The scan blithely blew past 5kw AMs, 3 of which had transmitters within 3 miles.

For a chuckle, back on I pushed the HD Tag button. The Jensen muted and the display went away. After a few seconds of inactivity, I was thinking "I killed it" until the gloomy little blue window read, INSUFFICIENT DATA. 98.9 came uncertainly back on.

In sum, the Jensen at $88 offers Chatty-Cathy audio quality mounted in shiny black plastic which promises to show every fingerprint and dust speck - the display unit already sported several deep scratches - and a hard-to-read blue display and flimsy controls. It seemed more "Hasbro" than "Jensen." I wouldn't pay more than ten bucks for this little POS.

Then there was the Polk Audio HDX30 - which was handsome and presented impressive audio, which at $129.99 for a radio, it had better do. The Polk featured an attractive wood enclosures for control head and speakers and an easy-to-read bright, modern looking display. Unfortunately I could get nothing in HD - just the usual assortment of FM stations and nothing whatsoever, digital or analog, on AM.

The Accurian has apparently been banished. None were evident, nor was the lonely BA Receptor HD this store displayed this past summer.

That's the report. I could have gone to other BB/CC/RS outlets, but....I don't really think I need to. We all know what more visits would likely reveal.
 
Savage said:
From the "now THERE'S an hour of my life I'll never get back" department:

Overhearing this exchange, a co-worker shot back: "No, we don't have that thing any more." They shrugged and suggested I search on-line.

CIRCUIT CITY: A brand new store, where I was greeted at the door by Santa and an eager clerk. I asked where the HD Radios were, and got the diplomatic, vacant "whaaat?" stare. Finally Val composed herself and sent me back to the car stereo section, where a knowledgable, helpful lad led me to a display where there was one JVC HD-capable unit already playing loudly, tuned to the local rock station. I said, "That's analog. The HD digital must sound fantastic." The salesman's startling response somewhat mitigated this sentiment.

"Why are you interested in HD?" he asked confidentially. I explained that I was a broadcaster and was investigating consumer and retail interest in the system. He frowned. "You didn't hear it from me, but Circuit
City really doesn't recommend HD. There have been a lot of problems. The reception is weak and it flips back and forth between regular radio and HD which people find annoying. And the stations don't supervise the side-channels very well, so they go blank for hours or days at a time and then customers come back and complain that their new HD Radio isn't working. It's kind of a novelty. They listen to the side channels for a few days but then they return to the main stations and never go back. If you want real variety on the radio XM-Sirius is a much better bet. It costs a lot less, works better and gives you a lot more channels."

These places must finally be educating their sales clerks ;D. "WE don't have that thing anymore" hahaha! "The Thing that ate up it's Neighbors" in a theater near you soon.
 
Aw shucks! And I had such high hopes that HD Radio was going to save Circuit City's bacon.

Oh well, it's on to bankruptcy court. Do not pass go, do not collect 200 returned HD Radios.

C5
 
Yes, and memo to Jensen: consumers expect basic-function products like radios to perform in familiar fashion. Radio listeners have been accustomed, for about the last forty years, to twisting the OFF-ON VOL knob to the right and instantly getting music or news or the ballgame.

I personally find an almost tube-type warm-up period with a display that reads 'STARTING RADIO' on their Jensen iPod docking AM/FM/HD to be somewhat disconcerting. I was thinking, "starting?" What, will I need jumper cables in cold weather?? ::)

"Starting?" A freakin' RADIO?? When you punch your TV remote, does the display read STARTING TELEVISION? Does your toaster-oven tell you STARTING TOAST?
 
KB1OKL said:
These places must finally be educating their sales clerks ;D. "WE don't have that thing anymore" hahaha! "The Thing that ate up it's Neighbors" in a theater near you soon.

As salient as always, KB.:)

It is inter"esting to note, that there is a marginal improvement in response from retail. And while I will not contradict Savages "HD in Best Buy" experience, I will add some facts gleaned from the Best Buy Website just moments ago.

On their website, they offer 28 variations of HD radios in car units. Of those, 5 units are not available anywhere in stores. Of those remaining 23, 18 of them are currently available in Savage's Henrieta store, Zip Code 14407. 5 are our of stock. 3 of those are marine models. Given the lack of bodies of water within 30 miles or so and the condition of most of that water this time of year (Solid) I'm inclined to set those aside. If they have 18 out of 20 units carried, I'd say they're ready for Christmas. :) As you move onto the Home units, the offerings are slim. Not Slimmmer than they were, but still not very impressive. They offer 3 models for the home. A bookshelf system (Internet only) A Tuner (In stock at Henrietta and a COmbo DVD and HD player(also in stock)

There's no doubt there's still retail salespeople issues. And the Spiff you get for SatRad will always cause the behavior Savage noted. I will point out that last week when I went to buy a new 40 inch wide HDTV, the einstien salesperson who was out of that size (Which fit exactly in the hole I have in my entertainment center) tolkd me "There's not much difference between a 37" and a 40"." Spoken like a true commission salesperson. If he worked for me, I'd expect him to do no less.

I'm not contradicting Savage. Just providing the backup info on the story. Cleary the Best Buy sales folks still aren't up to speed. (I think I've heard that elsewhere before) :)

Clouseau
 
"Not contradicting" me, Inspector? You mean trotting off to the Best Buy website and trying to discredit my first-person account with a bunch of SKU information off the web isn't a "contradiction?"

Suggestion: if you're going to try to challenge my in-person experiment using a computer from 2000 miles away, try getting the right store first. There is no zip code 14407 in the Rochester metro. The address for the Best Buy I visited is 2345 Marketplace Drive, Henrietta/Rochester, NY 14623. And all the contention about salespeople and spiffs and what's in-stock versus what was displayed - or more succinctly, NOT displayed - is beside the point. Even if you had the right store, the salient point here is: NO HD RADIOS WERE ON DISPLAY except for a handful of car units, most of which were "HD-ready," which is code for "can't decode a freakin' thing on HD until you buy yet another aftermarket thingie, an HD tuner." Which I would strongly argue, most people won't bother to do.

You see: even if the SKU data you're looking at is accurate, consumers can't see HD Radios in the store because store managers see no point in devoting display space to products which generally don't sell, and if they do sell, are subject to high rates of return. Either way you slice it, HD has enormous problems at retail.

If you need further confirmation of this situation (at BB Henrietta) as being typical, read the most recent RW and JD Russ' account from your former stomping grounds in suburban Philly.
 
Savage said:
"Not contradicting" me, Inspector? You mean trotting off to the Best Buy website and trying to discredit my first-person account with a bunch of SKU information off the web isn't a "contradiction?"

I'll be polite and merely say I'm not trying to discredit you. I was interested if there was an out of stock problem with the home radios or if the selection sucked. It's the latter as for as home equipment. I said that.
Suggestion: if you're going to try to challenge my in-person experiment using a computer from 2000 miles away, try getting the right store first. There is no zip code 14407 in the Rochester metro. The address for the Best Buy I visited is 2345 Marketplace Drive, Henrietta/Rochester, NY 14623.

I couldn't say for sure. The Zip listed was 14467.I have rechecked it. It still is. Try bestbuy.com. I see I did misread a digit in my scribbles. Forgive me. The street address matchs. If you say it's somewhere else, I guess I'll say "I don't have personal knowledge" and leave it at that. Maybe their website is wrong.I plead guilty to never having been there.

And all the contention about salespeople and spiffs and what's in-stock versus what was displayed - or more succinctly, NOT displayed - is beside the point. Even if you had the right store,

Which I do. The street address is the same.
the salient point here is: NO HD RADIOS WERE ON DISPLAY except for a handful of car units, most of which were "HD-ready," which is code for "can't decode a freakin' thing on HD until you buy yet another aftermarket thingie, an HD tuner." Which I would strongly argue, most people won't bother to do.
I agree. If you could get by your anger, and actually read what I said, I think you'd see I was agreeing with you.

You see: even if the SKU data you're looking at is accurate,
And it is according tho their website...

consumers can't see HD Radios in the store because store managers see no point in devoting display space to products which generally don't sell, and if they do sell, are subject to high rates of return. Either way you slice it, HD has enormous problems at retail.

An observant person would probably say that, when it comes to home units, they're "Not Very impressive". I said that.

If you need further confirmation of this situation (at BB Henrietta) as being typical, read the most recent RW and JD Russ' account from your former stomping grounds in suburban Philly.

I've read the trades and I believe (As I posted before) that you are basically correct. I'm sorry if I've turned your mood so negative about EVERYTHING. Clearly that was not my intention. Hope today gets better for ya.

Clouseau
 
Who says I'm angry? About this thread or anything else? I'm just engaging in a debate about HD Radio.

And I'm having a perfectly fine day. My mood is and was fine, certainly not "negative about EVERYTHING."

C'mon, Inspector, let's just keep the debate about HD receiver availability at retail. Respectfully, could we please just do that?
 
Savage said:
C'mon, Inspector, let's just keep the debate about HD receiver availability at retail. Respectfully, could we please just do that?

That has been my intent all along. I have been nothing but respectful to you in this thread. And frankly in the other one as well. I regret if you have taken it some other way.

If your point was how the radios are displayed and how much the staff directs you to them, as I suspect it originally was, I'm agreeing with you. If it's about availability of products in that BB store's stock, Inventory says they got 'em. If it's about selection of Home unit models - It's pretty bad. (Does one system actually count as selection?)

Forgive me if I somehow inadvertantly attributed a hostile tone to what you wrote. Apparently I take the phrase "trying to discredit <your> first-person account" a little differently than you mean it. And I guess that's a good thing.

I do wonder where the great saving Christmas for HD I've heard some allude to, is supposed to come from. While there is a little more avaiability than last year, it's not much. I also do not recall seeing an Insignia car HD in the SKU list. After you go through 34 of the $%^&%$#% things you get a little cross eyed, though.

There was a report that the Clear Channel Sales force in Corpus Christi was out ballyhooing the cluster's conversion to HD. Their story was that they'd be all Christmas on the HD2's to launch. I'm assuming with 3 of their 4 C1's on a common antenna, they have the bandwidth already. Ditto their 2 seperate Non-D AMs.

No sign of it yet. I suspect Santa's not comiing to Clear Channel Corpus Christi this year. :(

Knowing CC, he might never get here. What's it "HD nazi" says in Seinfeld? "No HD for You!"

Clouseau
 
It's interesting that my good friend Counselor Savage, who prides himself on running a non-corporate, mom'n'pop'n'sheepdog, local operation down at WYSL, confined his Henrietta shopping expedition to the big boxes.

Next time you run this experiment, Bob, might I suggest that you add a couple of locally-owned shops to your agenda? I bought my Sony XDR-F1HD at The Stereo Shop, conveniently located less than a mile from the three stores you visited - and unlike those three big boxes, the non-commissioned salespeople at "The Shop" knew exactly what I was talking about, had a couple of models of radios on display and hooked up correctly, and told me they'd been selling a respectable number of the Sony magic boxes, especially since featuring them in their newspaper print ads for a few weeks. (Interestingly - and this was a few months ago - the salesguy I dealt with had no knowledge of the Ibiquity $50 rebate on the radios, and was most interested in hearing about it when I told him.)

At WXXI, where "91.5-HD2" has become a very viable answer to the problems experienced by many of our AM 1370 listeners who like the news and talk on our AM signal, but can't get it very well in its deep nulls close to the city after dark, we don't bother sending people to the big boxes to find radios. If they don't want to get a radio when we're offering them during membership drives, where we've moved a surprisingly decent number of them, we send them to Stereo Shop, or to locally-owned Rowe Photo & Video just up the road, or (as a last ditch) to Crutchfield online.

A niche? You bet...but it's a niche that's working for us (and for WNED 970/WNED-FM 94.5, in a similar directional-null pickle an hour away in Buffalo), and if there's a better solution than HD Radio to our particular situation - programming, much of it local, with a devoted audience that wants to hear it but can't because of a directional nighttime AM signal that misses large pieces of today's market - it hasn't surfaced yet.

(No, FMExtra ain't it - we have a huge installed base of Reachout Radio listeners depending on the radio reading service via the analog 92 kHz SCA on 91.5, as well as a paying client for the analog 67 kHz SCA, and the Aruba radios are way more expensive these days than the Sony or Sangean desktop radios we recommend, anyway.)

And no, I have no connection to The Stereo Shop other than as a very, very happy customer of theirs for over 20 years now...and one who believes in supporting local businesses - not just radio stations, but electronics retailers, too! - whenever and wherever possible.
 
We all like and appreciate the mom & pop electronics store, but mom & pop is rare. Whats missing from the HD equation is the WOW experience. Customers walks into Best Buy, and are easily able see and test drive many live and working radios. The Wow is missing! For radio geeks, the church going folks and believers dropping $100.00 online for HD isn't a problem, for average people it's more like HD, what's thats?

Having a niche market is great, I'm not certain just selling receivers to geeks and fellow believers is going to be enough to make HD commercially viable for anyone.

I'd say more ipods are sold at Best Buy and Wal-mart than mom & pop electronics. And like it or not, you're competing for time with ipods and cell phones and everything else. HD needs to amp up the retail WOW
or at least find it first. It's just not sexy to average people, not including broadcasters or believers.
 
pocket-radio said:
Having a niche market is great, I'm not certain just selling receivers to geeks and fellow believers is going to be enough to make HD commercially viable for anyone.

I suspect you're trying to paint me as a "fellow believer." ("Geek," I'll plead guilty to any day, with a vengeance.)

I'm not a "fellow believer."

Truth is, I couldn't give half a fig whether or not HD is commercially viable in the long run. If I were a commercial broadcaster right now, I'd have an exceptionally hard time justifying putting the thing on my airwaves - and that's on FM. I know I wouldn't bother with the moribund AM system, even if I could have it for free.

Here's what I care about: the AM station where I work has a problem. The problem is, we have listeners who care about our programming and want to hear it after dark, but they live in (or commute through/into) one of our deep directional nulls.

Over the years that we've had that problem, we've tried several solutions. We simulcast some of that programming on another FM signal, but that's only for limited hours on a limited signal. Streaming is nice, but we handle our streaming in-house, and at the moment it doesn't scale up economically.

At this particular moment, in these particular circumstances, an HD subchannel on the full class B FM that we also own happens to be the best answer to that question.

Will that continue to be the case in five years, or ten, or twenty? I don't know, and don't much care - the business that I'm involved in is programming, and the means of distribution are secondary. Maybe the stick value of commercial signals collapses and we get a second FM signal on the cheap. Maybe universal free WiMax becomes the norm and we shut off the AM transmitter entirely and become nothing more than a stream that everyone's accessing through their cellphones. Maybe we'll be beaming our audio directly into everyone's new iCranialImplant.

In the meantime, HD is a means to an end for us, nothing more and nothing less. To the extent that its success would put more radios out there that can hear our programming, thus sparing us the burden of making our prospective listeners go to the trouble of buying them, that's great. Beyond that, the overall success or failure of the system, as opposed to the programming that's transmitted over it, is of no concern.

(And if I haven't said so sufficiently, I speak here - as always - solely for myself and not for any of my employers or clients.)
 
clouseau said:
KB1OKL said:
These places must finally be educating their sales clerks ;D. "WE don't have that thing anymore" hahaha! "The Thing that ate up it's Neighbors" in a theater near you soon.

As salient as always, KB.:)


Clouseau

Great sense of humor as always Inspector. ;)
 
Noted, Scottso - I'm sure that HD Radios are available in all sorts of outlets if you're willing to search them out. In this day and age of internet product searches, conveniently one Google-click away, this is hardly a daunting process.

My admittedly unscientific HD shopping foray hit only the "high-point" big-boxes where a typical consumer would make his or her first stop. With a dog to feed and many hats to wear at my "mom-and-pop" operation, I can only devote so much time to fighting slush and Christmas shoppers. So I did the biggies.

I do think, however, that my experience tends to illuminate the marketing problems HD has. After all: sat-radio is, ahem, "ubiquitous" when you search ANY consumer electronics outlet - big-box, small-box, or mom-and-pop and everything in between. To succeed HD has to be as visible as XM-Sirius IMO.

I am perfectly willing to consider that HD Radio may have the closest thing the system could have to a "killer app" when it comes to pubcaster stations with marginal AMs. After all, all the dough is in NPR's news-talk products.
 
Savage said:
I do think, however, that my experience tends to illuminate the marketing problems HD has. After all: sat-radio is, ahem, "ubiquitous" when you search ANY consumer electronics outlet - big-box, small-box, or mom-and-pop and everything in between. To succeed HD has to be as visible as XM-Sirius IMO.

I think your choice of Big Box locales is totally valid. We all know you can get a satellite PHONE on the net. When we see them in Circuit City, we'll know they might actually seel a few.

I agree with almost anything you said except the part about SatRad. And here I think is where I differ from many on this issue.

I don't believe HD needs a "WOW" factor like SatRad. Never have. I think it will survive and prosper based on the model of the telephone. (Stay with me here.)

Look at how different the telephone is now, compared to 30 years ago. 30 Years ago everyone had one in their house. You punched (Or literally "Dialed') 7 or 10 numbers and you got to talk to someone else who had a telephone. Very reliable. Flash forward 30 years to today. You still have a telephone. A more full featured telephone, but a telephone just the same. The new one goes with you. The new one has a built in answering machine. The new one connects to your, or someone elses, computer.It delivers a post-it note. (Did we have those 30 years ago)? The new one even plays music like your 8-track did. But basically, at the heart of it, is a telephone. A device that I would argue, does not work as well as the telephones of 30 years ago. While I see "WOW" with new combinations of services and features, you still just press 10 buttons and talk to someone. Not really revolutionary.

Through this all there has been radio. Same type deal. I do NOT believe that HD needs to make you go "Oh Wow". What it needs is integration. Leaving the AM part aside, which frankly has a nobel purpose, but very well is just too late, additional choices are good for radio.

Scott's fill in issue on HD is also an issue here in flatland country. And note that KILT-FM HD3 now simulcasts KILT 610 out of Houston. Gets a fair amount more range and a LOT more clarity around sundown. But I digress. Radio could use a "WOW". But it will never come from broadcast technology ALONE. But conversely, who would say "Let's not put up all these cell towers, people are still just pushing 10 buttons to talk to someone else"? One of the mantras you hear on this board is "People want more chioces". More channels equals more chilces.

For my money, the improvement of sound quality on FM is noticable, but not necessary in the vast majority of listening situations.IMHO, FM quality works. The choices are the key. That's why I believe the analog fallback was not the way to go. We could have had probably HD-4 and HD-5 without it. Or reconfigure the whole digital bandwodth on Sunday afternoons for your "Ultra super high fidelity opera nroadcast" Or whatever.

Point is, the WOW will come from the combinations of data, programming, and maybe even stuff we haven't thought of yet. The Digital system itself is just those grey monopoles you see everywhere.

At least that's how "I" see it.

Clouseau
 
clouseau said:
I don't believe HD needs a "WOW" factor like SatRad. Never have. I think it will survive and prosper based on the model of the telephone. (Stay with me here.)

Clouseau

I think you may have a couple of points there Inspector, AM IBOC stations do sound like telephones on analog radios and the surrounding 25 or so KHz of whooshing elicits all sorts of adjectives although I also don't think WOW is amongst them. ;D

Seriously though I've had the same experience as The Intrepid Shopper and 99% of consumers do their audio shopping at places like that so it's also a valid shopping experience for the vast majority of consumers. I've also been steered to the Satrad displays. "You can get the same station just about everywhere in the country"
 
clouseau said:
I do NOT believe that HD needs to make you go "Oh Wow". What it needs is integration. Leaving the AM part aside, which frankly has a nobel purpose, but very well is just too late, additional choices are good for radio.

You've posted the first thing on this board to make any sense in a very, very long time.
 
KB1OKL said:
Seriously though I've had the same experience as The Intrepid Shopper and 99% of consumers do their audio shopping at places like that so it's also a valid shopping experience for the vast majority of consumers. I've also been steered to the Satrad displays. "You can get the same station just about everywhere in the country"

That is the experience provided by these types of stores. I still suspect based on SatRad's Spiff for subscriptions sold.

I have never understood the whole "Get the same station everywhere in the country" pitch. How many people travel all that much? Where's the localization ie WX traffic or news? It's all about Buzz Words. As in "Your phone sounds better because it's DIGITAL".

Now we have HDTV antennas. Can someone tell me the difference between a "Color" TV antenna and an "HDTV" antenna. :) And why are both of those better than a regular TV antenna. Pick up the exciting answer here on campus, not in the Engineering department, but in the Business department. Check with the prof. that teachies the marketing classes. :)

Clouseau
 
I drive about a half an hour to work straight West away from Boston. By the time I'm close to where I get off the MA Pike I lose most or all Boston FM's. Satellite comes in without a problem anywhere, that is I believe a big selling point for satellite radio. You turn it on and leave it on the station you like and never lose it no matter where you go. When I travel at night I listen to a big AM station for the same reason unless I'm listening to Satellite. FM is annoying when traveling, every half an hour you have to find another station.
 
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