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Your localism requirements?

  • Thread starter The Ultimate Warrior
  • Start date

listener-in said:
Let me put it in terms you might get, the government decides you need to sell your double wide to someone, the buyers all knowing the government has mandated the sale can low ball you.

IS that a free market if you don't have a choice to sell or not?

I've been reading up on Adam Smith, the apostle of the free market. I suggest you do likewise; he had plenty to say about monopolies, the public interest and the flouting of the public interest by those in business who rig the market to suit themselves. I suspect that if they were both more familiar with his writings, the right might disown him a little and the left adopt him more.
No radio group has a monopoly or a duopoly for that matter.

Business is like water; both are an undoubted good and an undoubted necessity; but both can inflict damage when uncontrolled. If you don't agree with that, you have a short memory for hurricane Katrina and an even shorter one for what got us into our present economic mess. If government had no right to determine the framework within which business is conducted in the public interest, we might as well go back to the dark ages.
Well the govt has done a fantastic job in dealing with both the issues you raised. Let me see if I get this, you want more government and you reference our current economy and Katrina to show it's power for good?
Now to your question. I'm sure you love it when government works in your favor to the exclusion of the public interest, as it has increasingly done for three decades under administrations of both parties. You may as well accept that the pendulum is swinging back to reflect the public interest. As a listener, I'm far from alone in believing that media concentration has not served my interest - look at the enormous (and incidentally, bipartisan) attendances around the nation when the FCC held public meetings around the country. Also, I'm sure there are many would be entrepreneurs who would love to get into radio but have been priced out of it.
I would like to own a few sports bars but I have been priced out of it, can the government force Buffalo Wild Wings to sell me a store on the cheap?
To me, it's a free market when more people rather than fewer have the opportunity to become station owners.
That is not what a free market is.
Well, it would be free of such things as this condescending commentary.

Thanks, I was thinking the same thing.
It was a joke, calm down.
 
Having glanced through a dozen or so postings that pretty much say the same thing let me try and help some of you out:

1. Broadcasting is not a free market.
2. Stations get licenses.

Now to #2. Just about everyone has a drivers license. You gotta pass a test and from time to time you gotta go back and prove you are not SO lame that you will drive into a busload of nuns on Christmas Eve because you motor skills are so bad and/ or your eyesight is gone. The government can change the terms of that license any time it so believes it appropriate. Same thing for a fishing license. And there are rules that come with the license. Don't like the rules? Too bad. Thems is the rules.

Broadcasters get licenses. The FCC rule says they get the license to "serve the public interest, convenience and necessity." Owners and obviously many on this board who have actually never owned, run or worked in broadcasting think they don't gotta play by any rules. It is a free market they claim. Well, it isn't.

One of those rules should be that they actually have to have PEOPLE working at their stations. It seems easy enough. Buy a radio station for not a stupid amount of money and an interest rate that is just shy of obscene, hire some staff, sell the time and make money. Stations did it for years (and many still do) before the lunatics from Wall Street looked at broadcasting as a cash cow and not a business based on talent.

So they fired all the good talent in sales and on-air, their stocks are now worth just shy of **zilch** and they wonder what they did wrong.

With no local contact and no local content why do I, as joe-average-listener need to listen? The answer is, I don't.

Now you can go back to fighting about liberals and conservatives.
 
justareporter said:
Broadcasters get licenses. The FCC rule says they get the license to "serve the public interest, convenience and necessity." Owners and obviously many on this board who have actually never owned, run or worked in broadcasting think they don't gotta play by any rules. It is a free market they claim. Well, it isn't.

One of those rules should be that they actually have to have PEOPLE working at their stations.

With no local contact and no local content why do I, as joe-average-listener need to listen? The answer is, I don't.

Oh, if it were only that simple.

FWIW I am one of the posters who has owned & operated radio stations, and currently operate five of them, 4 FMs & an AM.

Two of my FM stations--an AC & a Country--are what the current industry would consider "fully staffed"--eight air talents between the two, covering 6A to 7P on-air + local news/sports/community events, et cetera. Both stations have multi-person morning acts. In fact, the AC has a 4-person "ensemble" cast in mornings--two fulltimers & two part-timers.

The AM has a full-service morning act from 6 to 9A, then kicks into music mode using network fare + local news breaks, PSA's & the like--and also has local sports & regional college & pro sports for evenings & weekends. Even though this station has only one (count him, one) fulltime employee, it is perceived by our community as The Local Station.

And the other two FM stations--a CHR & a Classic Rocker--are completely voice-tracked & networked. Zero fulltime employees.

The CHR and the Classic Rocker generate as much listening and as much sales income as the fully-staffed stations. And the profitability on the non-staffed stations is incredible.

To look it at another way... there is plenty of evidence that there are millions of listeners who would prefer listening to Howard Stern... or Bob & Tom... or John Boy & Billy... or Rush... than any "local" human beings talking about "local" content. And this has been the case for at least the last 90 years or so...

Bottom Line: It's hard to make a convincing case that "local" is inherently better than non-"local."

So, why do we do it with two of our stations? Simple. Because that works, too. There ARE plenty of listeners who do appreciate the whole live/local/relatable-to-my-personal-daily-life type of radio.

And ultimately that's what the FCC has said. Do what works.
 
amfmxm said:
And ultimately that's what the FCC has said. Do what works.

Let me make a guess. You have pointed out what people will listen to... and they will listen to nationally produced content and they will listen to locally produced content.

My guess is that when it comes to selling to local merchants and other local advertisers, some of them are more excited about buying the locally produced content while other advertisers see value in listeners connected with nationally produced content. Having both kinds of content not only expands who will listen, but maybe it expands who will buy?

No revenue = no station = no need to worry about what the FCC expects or would like.
 
Who exactly is "the public"? Is "the public" only those who will listen to a local DJ? Are people who would rather listen to Bob and Tom, John Boy and Billy, Jim Rome,Tom Joyner or even Rush "not really members of the public"?

If we take those shows off the air, is that segment of the population (millions nationwide) being better served...really? Assuming it's mandated that national programs are eliminated or sharply reduced, that Fox Sports will now be replaced by two guys at the local bar, are we "serving the public" or having federal mandates for make-work radio jobs?

Who speaks for "the public"? Maybe you don't speak for me or millions of others.
 
I'm not sure why I am even bothering, but I am going to try.

There is a place in the programming mix for sydicated programming. It just can't be the only thing you program. If you want to own a license to "serve the public interest" then you have to do more than just turn on the transmitter every morning and walk away.

With a license comes the responsibility to "serve" ...I know a lot of people don't get this...especially from the "what is in it for me " crowd...but what is in it for you is to fulfill a pubic need.

I know...you don't get it at all.
 
If a program or format has listeners its serving a public need. Unless your definition is "programming the public has no interest in"?
 
justareporter said:
I'm not sure why I am even bothering, but I am going to try.

There is a place in the programming mix for sydicated programming. It just can't be the only thing you program. If you want to own a license to "serve the public interest" then you have to do more than just turn on the transmitter every morning and walk away.

With a license comes the responsibility to "serve" ...I know a lot of people don't get this...especially from the "what is in it for me " crowd...but what is in it for you is to fulfill a pubic need.

I know...you don't get it at all.

Oh, we get it. What you don't seem to get is that for at least 75 years now--dating back to 1934--the federal government has intentionally allowed licensees to determine what "serving the public" constitutes for each licensed radio station in each community that it serves.

And they have been reasonably clear about why they've done it this way--because it would be presumptuous for the government to abridge the free speech of the licensee and the community.

Are we to assume that you know better? Better than the FCC? Better than all the thousands of licensees? Better than all the millions of people within the thousands of communities served by these stations?

Whew! That's a pretty high level of arrogance you've got going on. A little dose of humility might be in order.
 
Oh, we get it. What you don't seem to get is that for at least 75 years now--dating back to 1934--the federal government has intentionally allowed licensees to determine what "serving the public" constitutes for each licensed radio station in each community that it serves.

And they have been reasonably clear about why they've done it this way--because it would be presumptuous for the government to abridge the free speech of the licensee and the community.

This is a misstatement of the FCC's approach, at least pre-Reagan. What about ascertainment (talking to community leaders)? Is that some evil, presumptive plot.

We could have had all-national radio stations in the 1920's -- all the stations could have been WLW-type 500-kWers. Then localism would never have been an issue. But the FCC and Congress chose to have smaller stations focused on communities. Even in the heyday of network radio, network-affiliated stations programmed dozens of hours a week and had dozens of employees. Syndication and voicetracking dominates in most smaller markets because it is cheaper, not because the people of Paintsville and Paducah and Panama City voted one day to throw out their local personalities.

It's presumptive to assume that the people have been heard from. What about all the folks who crowded into those FCC hearings on localism around the country? Are they "not part of the public"?
 
smedge2006 said:
This is a misstatement of the FCC's approach, at least pre-Reagan. What about ascertainment (talking to community leaders)? Is that some evil, presumptive plot.

We could have had all-national radio stations in the 1920's -- all the stations could have been WLW-type 500-kWers. Then localism would never have been an issue. But the FCC and Congress chose to have smaller stations focused on communities. Even in the heyday of network radio, network-affiliated stations programmed dozens of hours a week and had dozens of employees. Syndication and voicetracking dominates in most smaller markets because it is cheaper, not because the people of Paintsville and Paducah and Panama City voted one day to throw out their local personalities.

It's presumptive to assume that the people have been heard from. What about all the folks who crowded into those FCC hearings on localism around the country? Are they "not part of the public"?

I'm old enough to have personally conducted many ascertainment processes--and I thought (and still think) that those surveys/conversations were generally a good thing. And, by the way, I'm a fan of "localism"--not an opponent.

But I also understand that the commission has historically--and the WLW case is a great example--generally tended to regulate by allocation, not by content. As you pointed out, in the late thirties they ruled against Crosley's "Nation's Station" in forcing them to live with a mere 50-kw @ 700, reducing their night coverage to only half the country. And much, much later another batch of commissioners chopped up the clears even further. And the 80-90 ruling was intended to provide additional FM channels for a ton-o-small-towns... followed by another batch who allowed most of them to be moved into the nearest bigger town or city. Allocation, not content.

They got out of the content business beginning with the deletion of ascertainment. Blew out the PSA requirments. Lightened the issues & programs load. Axed the caps on commercial content. Threw out the Fairness Doctrine. And even reduced CBS' penance for showing Janet Jackson's boob.

Free speech. Local or otherwise.
 
smedge2006 said:
Oh, we get it. What you don't seem to get is that for at least 75 years now--dating back to 1934--the federal government has intentionally allowed licensees to determine what "serving the public" constitutes for each licensed radio station in each community that it serves.

And they have been reasonably clear about why they've done it this way--because it would be presumptuous for the government to abridge the free speech of the licensee and the community.

This is a misstatement of the FCC's approach, at least pre-Reagan. What about ascertainment (talking to community leaders)? Is that some evil, presumptive plot.

We could have had all-national radio stations in the 1920's -- all the stations could have been WLW-type 500-kWers. Then localism would never have been an issue. But the FCC and Congress chose to have smaller stations focused on communities. Even in the heyday of network radio, network-affiliated stations programmed dozens of hours a week and had dozens of employees. Syndication and voicetracking dominates in most smaller markets because it is cheaper, not because the people of Paintsville and Paducah and Panama City voted one day to throw out their local personalities.

It's presumptive to assume that the people have been heard from. What about all the folks who crowded into those FCC hearings on localism around the country? Are they "not part of the public"?


Yeah...at least some radio companies still do that. Ascertainments? We do them in our shop. We also do local research. We see no groundswell to get rid of the syndicated talk in favor of a lesser-known local host.
In fact, the P-1's to our station are very happy with the local talent we have on the air with our morning show, the local news anchors, and programming people, many of whom sub in as talk hosts when a local emergency requires us to cut back on the syndication and provide local information.

We hear from "fan clubs" of various hosts wanting programming changes. Some hosts are local, some national. But the rule we use is: can this host do a better job at entertaining, gaining and maintaining the audience we have now?

I'm sure at least some of those folks who crowded in to talk about "localism" probably:

1.) Want their own show, but haven't been able to convince the station they can do it. (We get lots of
calls from "wannabe" hosts who beg us, "just put me on the air one day and I'll show you I can do it."
Then, when you ask about experience, you find they have none.)

2.) Local musicians who want to find some way to force radio to play what could be sub-par local music.

3.) Locals who think every station should be run like PBS or NPR.

Yes, they can have their say if they want. But every bit of research available indicates they are in the minority...and the minority, in the U.S. does not rule the country.

Yeah, you're right. Voice tracking is cheaper. That's why some radio people still have jobs. But, most listeners don't care...unless (and this is the one caveat I will give you), the station screws up because it has no quality control efforts in place to keep the voice tracked shows correct in terms of local events, weather, etc. Every station should have this in place. It is reprehensible that there are stations that do not.

Please understand: I am not standing up for every owner, or every consolidator in this country. A few are doing good things...others are screwing it up big time. But, the FCC should deal with this, not by a blanket rule concocted by "know nothing" legislators, but at renewal time...by more carefully scrutinizing each station's renewal application, rather than the "rubber stamp" they've been giving operators over the past
decade or two. Every station should be made to prove it is being operated in the "public interest, convenience and necessity."
 
The beauty of this discussion is that we'll all know pretty soon if my thoughts on localism are right...or wrong. So far, from what I can see of the 20+ generation, radio is dead. They want their music and news on their schedule by their people.

As broadcasters we provide NONE of that. We use playlists, repeatition, national news with little to no local and voice tracking.

At the rate the current genre of brain surgeons is killing radio stations I'll be able to buy a goo done for a song...or two.

Keep it up.
 
justareporter said:
The beauty of this discussion is that we'll all know pretty soon if my thoughts on localism are right...or wrong. So far, from what I can see of the 20+ generation, radio is dead. They want their music and news on their schedule by their people.

As broadcasters we provide NONE of that. We use playlists, repeatition, national news with little to no local and voice tracking.

At the rate the current genre of brain surgeons is killing radio stations I'll be able to buy a goo done for a song...or two.

Keep it up.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by the "20+ generation." My 91-year old mother is in that "20+" demo.

But I'll guess instead you mean the "youngest adults." In college towns we identify those people as 18-24. And, indeed, usage (that is, listening) of radio among 18 to 24 year olds is down over the past 10 years, from 96 percent... all the way down to 92 percent. And among teens it's even lower--only 90 percent. TSL (time spent listening) has dropped in both groups by about 20 percent.

Ninety-two percent. Think about that for a minute: 92 percent. Eight percent don't listen to radio. Only 92% do listen.

Has your team (football, basketball, baseball, soccer) ever gotten beat 92-8?

Newspaper circulation is down to around 40 percent. Online usage is all the way up to 53 percent.

And radio has to scrape along--holding on with its fingernails--at only 92 percent among young adults.

You're right. Radio is dead.
 
justareporter said:
The beauty of this discussion is that we'll all know pretty soon if my thoughts on localism are right...or wrong. So far, from what I can see of the 20+ generation, radio is dead. They want their music and news on their schedule by their people.

As broadcasters we provide NONE of that. We use playlists, repeatition, national news with little to no local and voice tracking.

At the rate the current genre of brain surgeons is killing radio stations I'll be able to buy a goo done for a song...or two.

Keep it up.

Yeah...and ain't it amazing that the people they get their "news" from...are comedians portraying newspeople? Which means the "information" they get has an automatic bias one way or the other, since comedy requires that to be funny. But, OK...I was 20 once, too.

And, I'm sorry, I'm calling you on this "little or no local" business. Now, I know some companies employ out of town voice tracking, but far from all...a locally voicetracked program can sound local...and live. And frankly, no one but radio geeks care about whether it is tracked or not. Some companies, again are doing it right, others are screwing up. But, to make the blanket statement you did, is not looking at every station...or all the facts.
 
Unfortunately my experince and numbers seem to be running in parallel universes. Ask 50 students at any college if they listen to radio. I'll be amazed if you get 15 hands.

Really.

ipods and other ways of sharing music...yes. Radio? Not much.

As for voice tracking news and no one cares, the fella who says you can do it well from other locations misses the point. NEWS is not simply the recitation of stories or headlines. For the seriously underqualified: it is the COVERING of and the REPORTING of events that have taken place by people who actually SAW them. Yes, you can use AP wire and audio to round out your newscast but I do NOT consider a newscast one that doesn't, at its core contain local reportage.

Now try and sell that one again about no one notices...in reality..everyone does.
 
justareporter said:
Unfortunately my experince and numbers seem to be running in parallel universes. Ask 50 students at any college if they listen to radio. I'll be amazed if you get 15 hands.

Really.

ipods and other ways of sharing music...yes. Radio? Not much.

As for voice tracking news and no one cares, the fella who says you can do it well from other locations misses the point. NEWS is not simply the recitation of stories or headlines. For the seriously underqualified: it is the COVERING of and the REPORTING of events that have taken place by people who actually SAW them. Yes, you can use AP wire and audio to round out your newscast but I do NOT consider a newscast one that doesn't, at its core contain local reportage.

Now try and sell that one again about no one notices...in reality..everyone does.

You sound like you may be a college prof. Me, too. But as we've all learned in Journ 101, you've got to ask those 50 college kids some good follow-up questions, like "Did anybody listen to the big game last night?" or "Did anybody hear what (hot morning jock) said this morning?" I've got two of those kids in my family, and 40 in my classes, and we go through this exercise every semester--to demonstrate the difference between what respondents do and what they say. Research isn't all that easy, is it? One thing you can count on, though. In groups, they'll lie. They do not want to be perceived as "different," in any way.

One thing that has come out of the decade-long "Infinite Dial" study conducted by Edison Research & Arbitron is that iPod usage has levelled off (overall) and has begun to drop in younger demos (the early adapters & the early discarders), because they found much the same thing that previous generations learned about CDs, tapes & records--that hearing the same old stuff gets old pretty quick... and that reloading and/or purchasing new content is a pain in the ass & expensive.

But radio gives you new, fresh content and it's free. What a concept.

You are absolutely right about the difference between news readers and news reporters. Media without reporters has nothing to do with journalism. And if newspaper companies continue to slash the ranks of reporters... and other media don't pick up the slack... we're going to find ourselves in a very different society. One in which nobody knows what is really happening (unless it involves Ms. Hilton or Ms. Spears).
 
Jason, I could probably add the "Keep WYSO Local" crowd as folks who might have been at the "localism" meetings. You know..the people who want this 50000 watt station to cater to 100 people who live in Yellow Springs by airing DJs who had 10 very vocal fans apiece. That group did manage to run a couple of PDs and GMs out of town on a rail.
 
justareporter said:
The beauty of this discussion is that we'll all know pretty soon if my thoughts on localism are right...or wrong. So far, from what I can see of the 20+ generation, radio is dead. They want their music and news on their schedule by their people.

As broadcasters we provide NONE of that. We use playlists, repeatition, national news with little to no local and voice tracking.

At the rate the current genre of brain surgeons is killing radio stations I'll be able to buy a goo done for a song...or two.

Keep it up.

Yeah...that's why a good percentage of those young people say they still hear most of their "new music" from radio.
 
hate to break the news to dyou....I talk to young adults every day...they don't get their new music from radio...and they certainly don't listen to it.

As one put it, " why?"

As for AM....well that is just dead....Rush and clone killed it by making it not interesting for young people.
 
justareporter said:
hate to break the news to dyou....I talk to young adults every day...they don't get their new music from radio...and they certainly don't listen to it.

As one put it, " why?"

As for AM....well that is just dead....Rush and clone killed it by making it not interesting for young people.
Yes, AM would be much better off if Rush did not exist?

Do you really believe that?

Take away your obvious political bent and you will understand how silly your statement is.
 
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